Red State Voucher Schools: The Right To Be Ignorant

[Flopper]

Where, anywhere in the world, does that work? Do the countries beating the crap out of us do that?

While their government isn't completely out of it, Denmark uses a voucher system and they blow us away academically.

I wasn't asking where vouchers worked, I was asking where the 100% privatization of education worked. I'm still waiting.

There is no country where 100% of the schools are privatized. The closest is Haiti where 90% of the students are educated in church run and private schools. Haiti's literacy rate is one of lowest in the word, ranking 191 out of 205 countries.

Most of the success of private schools lies in their ability to choose their students, leaving those with special needs and behavior problems to the public schools.

 

[Uncensored2008]

At the time Apple owned the lion's share of the market, they did have the best technology, especially in graphics and with their icon based interface. Apple would even epoxy their boards to keep anyone from copying them. Reverse engineering would destroy the components.

Apple has never had even 10% of the PC market. The early 6809 Macs were a pile of shit. The Xerox interface that Apple stole, was a decent paradigm, but Xerox realized what Apple didn't, the hardware in 1984 was unable to support it. The monochrome display on a 240X320 9" CRT, was significantly inferior to existing Matrox and ATi solutions. Frankly, the Radio Shack "DeskMate" interface was superior to the Mac in every way.

Apple is and was the North Korea of computing, closed standards with no alternative to the mandated hardware and software. Innovation was crushed under Apple.

Starting with the 8086, the microprocessor was licensed and clones flooded the market. Once icon based Windows came out and Pentium based processors hit the market, it was game over for Apple.

The 8086 was the first processor used by IBM in 1979. The PC-XT used an 8088, which was a similar chip with 8-bit registers.

IBM created an open standard from the start, no one "reverse engineered" anything, the standards were published for all to use.

It was smart of Apple to give computers to schools, but today's GOP might consider that "socialism" and therefore, "evil".

It was smart, and the only reason Apple survived. In 1998, Apple was less than 2% of the market. Macs are still meaningless in terms of market share, but Apple makes most of their revenue from iPhone, iPad, and iPod. In those early days, they only had the Mac.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

From Mother Jones. What are the odds that any of this is true?

Its called the New Living Word school and its in Ruston and they will teach all of that crap in the OP, mostly through sitting the students down in front of TV's all day.

I'm sure none of the Republicans in the legislature intended this to be a result of the voucher program - this is just another in a long line of examples of how Republicans are crappy at actually drafting legislation that does what they intend it to do.

 

[bendog]

Still, Hobbs, Locke and Calvin preached uplifiting society via peer pressure. There are public schools here that don't even have a pretext of education, and there's no hope. I just don't see the logic in not allowing parents to seek something better for their kids. Sure, the better parents will have better outcomes. But, the moral fiber of America is belieiving the less good parents will be shamed, or coerced, into copying the parents seen by peers to be the better.

 

[Harry Dresden]

From Mother Jones. What are the odds that any of this is true?

Its called the New Living Word school and its in Ruston and they will teach all of that crap in the OP, mostly through sitting the students down in front of TV's all day.

I'm sure none of the Republicans in the legislature intended this to be a result of the voucher program - this is just another in a long line of examples of how Republicans are crappy at actually drafting legislation that does what they intend it to do.

got news for you.....Democrats are the same way......

 

[squeeze berry]

From Mother Jones. What are the odds that any of this is true?

Its called the New Living Word school and its in Ruston and they will teach all of that crap in the OP, mostly through sitting the students down in front of TV's all day.

I'm sure none of the Republicans in the legislature intended this to be a result of the voucher program - this is just another in a long line of examples of how Republicans are crappy at actually drafting legislation that does what they intend it to do.

don't pretend you have any clue what happens in a classroom


OK?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Nobody is forced to go to a "voucher" school, are they?

Just like nobody is forced to go to a public school. Just don't ask me for money to help pay to send your kids to a voucher school to learn this shit.

and how are they asking you for money to send their kids to a charter school or get a voucher.....?

The same way that Conservatives are always claiming that any public program is being personally paid for by them, from their own pockets.

I can't remember how many people on this board posted that Sandra Fluke was "demanding that they pay for her birth control". It's the same context as that.


In terms of the topic, I have no problem with Charter schools - although they don't seem to be any better than regular public schools in terms of statistics.

Vouchers, on the other hand, I do have a problem with - vouchers for religious education even more so.

 

[DaGoose]

Yes, it certainly is one of them.

Hey dude. With your lack of critical thinking skills, I am willing to bet you went to one of your beloved "Christian" schools. Have you been voucherized? Do you believe the earth is only about 10 thousand years old? Man walked with dinasours?

I'm an atheist, moron. Private schools are better than government schools. Official government statistics prove it. Government fucks up everything it touches.

Private schools have been known to have higher test grade scores than public. But the fact that they can pick exactly who they want as students couldn't possibly have anything to do with it, right?

And I also got a kick out of your other statements, too.

1) Government fucks up everything it touches, and

2) Official government statistics prove it

What makes you think they didn't "fuck up" the statistics?

Moron

.

 

[Trajan]

Just like nobody is forced to go to a public school. Just don't ask me for money to help pay to send your kids to a voucher school to learn this shit.

and how are they asking you for money to send their kids to a charter school or get a voucher.....?

The same way that Conservatives are always claiming that any public program is being personally paid for by them, from their own pockets.

I can't remember how many people on this board posted that Sandra Fluke was "demanding that they pay for her birth control". It's the same context as that.


In terms of the topic, I have no problem with Charter schools - although they don't seem to be any better than regular public schools in terms of statistics.

Vouchers, on the other hand, I do have a problem with - vouchers for religious education even more so.

why do you have an issue with vouchers doc?

 

[bripat9643]

While their government isn't completely out of it, Denmark uses a voucher system and they blow us away academically.

I wasn't asking where vouchers worked, I was asking where the 100% privatization of education worked. I'm still waiting.

There is no country where 100% of the schools are privatized. The closest is Haiti where 90% of the students are educated in church run and private schools. Haiti's literacy rate is one of lowest in the word, ranking 191 out of 205 countries.

Haiti's literacy has more to do with the fact that its so poor because the government is utterly corrupt. America's literacy rate has always been high, even before the era of forced government schooling.

Most of the success of private schools lies in their ability to choose their students, leaving those with special needs and behavior problems to the public schools.

Bullshit. When Milwaukee was debating it's voucher initiative, the same claim was made. However, it turns out that Milwaukee sends all it's problem students (with behavior problems) to special private schools designed to handle such cases

 

[Flopper]

No they aren't. Public schools are worthless.

To improve our schools we need to look at what has been proven to work in the countries that are doing a better job of educating children. Doing away with public education is certainly not one of them.

why dont we just look at WHAT WE WERE DOING before this decline began?.....

It may come as a great surprise to many people, but there has been no decline in the quality of education in the US over the last 30 - 40 years. In fact, test scores have improved in all areas. Kids are learning faster thanks to new technologies in the classroom and more homework. Advanced classes such as algebra, geometry and foreign languages in middle school and calculus and computer science in high school have become common.

The fact that test scores of US students are falling in comparison to other countries fuels the demand for change. Other countries are surpassing the US for a number reasons.

South Korean students who scored the highest of all countries attend class 220 days a year, almost two months longer than US students. Enrichment activities such as sports and arts are at a low premium, with many high schools lacking modern gymnasiums or sports teams. School support for social activities are almost nonexistent. Most South Korean children spend 13 hours a day or more with their bottoms glued to a chair.

Finland, which is very socialize compared to S. Korea or the US is the second highest scoring country. It has a totally different approach to education. Students spend less time in class than US students. The success of Finnish schools is based on how teachers are treated. Their pay averages $40 to $50/hr in elementary schools and $75 to $80/hr in high school. Teachers are given complete freedom in their lesson plans. Teachers are held responsible for the success of their students. An astounding 25% of high school graduates select teaching as their first choice of a career. However, most student are not accepted into a teaching curriculum.

The biggest problem in education in the US, is we don't address the real issues. We politicize the debate with issues such as charter schools, vouchers, teacher unions, funding sources, etc. We should be focusing on what works in the classroom, and not political ideology.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/08/kids-school-test-scores-charts-kevin-drum
http://www.greatschools.org/students/academic-skills/2427-South-Korean-schools.gs?page=all
http://www.greatschools.org/students/2453-finland-education.gs

 

[theDoctorisIn]

and how are they asking you for money to send their kids to a charter school or get a voucher.....?

The same way that Conservatives are always claiming that any public program is being personally paid for by them, from their own pockets.

I can't remember how many people on this board posted that Sandra Fluke was "demanding that they pay for her birth control". It's the same context as that.


In terms of the topic, I have no problem with Charter schools - although they don't seem to be any better than regular public schools in terms of statistics.

Vouchers, on the other hand, I do have a problem with - vouchers for religious education even more so.

why do you have an issue with vouchers doc?

Mostly because they pull money from public education, and only benefit a few people.

In a more overall sense, I disagree with the constant trend for privatization of government services, and school vouchers is a perfect example of that.

In terms of religious schooling, it's because I don't want "my" tax dollars to pay for teaching about Jesus.

 

[Flopper]

Still, Hobbs, Locke and Calvin preached uplifiting society via peer pressure. There are public schools here that don't even have a pretext of education, and there's no hope. I just don't see the logic in not allowing parents to seek something better for their kids. Sure, the better parents will have better outcomes. But, the moral fiber of America is belieiving the less good parents will be shamed, or coerced, into copying the parents seen by peers to be the better.

Unfortunately parents grasping for a way to get better education for their kids, send them to charter schools, which of course sucks money out of public schools. If charter schools were really better at educating our kids, then maybe it would be worth it but they aren't. Research shows that, on average, charter schools don’t outperform traditional public schools – they’re just another attempt to privatize education! Looking at test scores over the last 40 years, private schools don't do any better at educating kids than public schools which is surprising since private schools can choose their students.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Its called the New Living Word school and its in Ruston and they will teach all of that crap in the OP, mostly through sitting the students down in front of TV's all day.

I'm sure none of the Republicans in the legislature intended this to be a result of the voucher program - this is just another in a long line of examples of how Republicans are crappy at actually drafting legislation that does what they intend it to do.

How many students are forced, against the will of the parents, to attend this school?

And what is the total attendance? 20? 30?

How many of those are on vouchers? 1? 2?

See, you leftists are doing what you always do, engaging in demagoguery.

 

[Uncensored2008]

why do you have an issue with vouchers doc?

The American left and civil liberty are like oil and water - they just don't mix.

 

[bodecea]

To improve our schools we need to look at what has been proven to work in the countries that are doing a better job of educating children. Doing away with public education is certainly not one of them.

why dont we just look at WHAT WE WERE DOING before this decline began?.....

It may come as a great surprise to many people, but there has been no decline in the quality of education in the US over the last 30 - 40 years. In fact, test scores have improved in all areas. Kids are learning faster thanks to new technologies in the classroom and more homework. Advanced classes such as algebra, geometry and foreign languages in middle school and calculus and computer science in high school have become common.

The fact that test scores of US students are falling in comparison to other countries fuels the demand for change. Other countries are surpassing the US for a number reasons.

South Korean students who scored the highest of all countries attend class 220 days a year, almost two months longer than US students. Enrichment activities such as sports and arts are at a low premium, with many high schools lacking modern gymnasiums or sports teams. School support for social activities are almost nonexistent. Most South Korean children spend 13 hours a day or more with their bottoms glued to a chair.

Finland, which is very socialize compared to S. Korea or the US is the second highest scoring country. It has a totally different approach to education. Students spend less time in class than US students. The success of Finnish schools is based on how teachers are treated. Their pay averages $40 to $50/hr in elementary schools and $75 to $80/hr in high school. Teachers are given complete freedom in their lesson plans. Teachers are held responsible for the success of their students. An astounding 25% of high school graduates select teaching as their first choice of a career. However, most student are not accepted into a teaching curriculum.

The biggest problem in education in the US, is we don't address the real issues. We politicize the debate with issues such as charter schools, vouchers, teacher unions, funding sources, etc. We should be focusing on what works in the classroom, and not political ideology.

The Kids Are All Right | Mother Jones
Lessons from South Korea - Academic Skills | GreatSchools
The Finnish miracle - Academics & Activities | GreatSchools

If we were seriously about educating our students, this is a good start.

 

[Contumacious]

No wonder the "Red States" are a bit slower than the "Blue States". Look at what they teach these kids in "Voucher Schools"........

Education is also fucked up in the Blue States:

Look at what they teach these kids in the Marxist schools

1- Obama can be trusted with Drones , but Law abiding Americans can not be trusted with Assault rifles and high capacity magazines

2- The US is a capitalist nation even though the Federal Reserve Board controls banking and credit

.

 

[Flopper]

We speak of public schools as if it were one unified system that is universally good or bad. The truth is we have 100,000 public schools with a huge gulf that separates the best and the worst. There're public schools so good that they tower over the best local private schools and there're public schools so bad that self education would be an improvement. This is not the case in countries that excel in educating their kids. There is far more consistency in funding, curriculum, and management.

In the US, our approach to public education is centered on local control and funding giving the local community and parents a major voice in how kids are educated. The problem is parents are not involved and the major interest of the community has little to do with the quality of education.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Red State Voucher Schools: The Right To Be Ignorant

No wonder the "Red States" are a bit slower than the "Blue States". Look at what they teach these kids in "Voucher Schools"........

1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out

2. Dragons were totally real

3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ

4. Africa needs religion

5. Slave masters were nice guys

6. The KKK was A-OK

7. The Great Depression wasn't as bad as the liberals made it sound

8. SCOTUS enslaved fetuses

9. The Red Scare isn't over yet

10. Mark Twain and Emily Dickinson were a couple of hacks

11. Abstract algebra is too dang complicated

12. Gay people "have no more claims to special rights than child molesters or rapists

13. "Global environmentalists have said and written enough to leave no doubt that their goal is to destroy the prosperous economies of the world's richest nations

14. Globalization is a precursor to rapture

14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones

Yeah....it's lookin' like Education is....

...your TICKET TO HELL!!!

 

[EriktheRed]

I like how one of the wingnut legislators in Louisiana was horrified to learn that their school voucher program - which she was totally ga-ga over, of course - allowed the establishment of a Muslim school in her state.