Regenerative farming and solar energy

[Old Rocks]

Not only did the desert land produce energy, now it produces agricultural products;

 

[fncceo]

I prefer degenerative farming ...

 

[MarathonMike]

Old Rocks Yes I've seen large scale solar farms here in Arizona. They make perfect sense and can convert useless land into very productive land.

 

[theHawk]

Old Rocks Yes I've seen large scale solar farms here in Arizona. They make perfect sense and can convert useless land into very productive land.

Yea except it’s very inefficient. Huge upfront costs, they take over a decade to pay for themselves, then a few years later need to be replaced with new panels because they degrade over time.

That’s in addition to the problem that they produce nothing when the sun goes down.

 

[Stryder50]

Have a thread on this down in "Gardening and Landscaping";
Agrivoltaics - Growing Crops Under Solar Panels

Feature article;

Growing Crops Under Solar Panels? Now There’s a Bright Idea​

In the new scientific (and literal) field of agrivoltaics, researchers are showing how panels can increase yields and reduce water use on a warming planet.

Growing Crops Under Solar Panels? Now Thereâs a Bright Idea

In the new scientific (and literal) field of agrivoltaics, researchers are showing how panels can increase yields and reduce water use on a warming planet.

www.wired.com

 

[rupol2000]

Most of this green stuff is just scams. They generate energy from oil and gas, deliver it to batteries through wires, and claim to be "green".
The Germans are hanged from the vibration of their wind farms and want "dirty" Nord Stream for themselves.
The Green Party was convicted of being linked to pedophiles. They sat in parliament and lobbied for child abuse criminals

 

[Old Rocks]

Yea except it’s very inefficient. Huge upfront costs, they take over a decade to pay for themselves, then a few years later need to be replaced with new panels because they degrade over time.

That’s in addition to the problem that they produce nothing when the sun goes down.

In what manner are they inefficient? No, they do not take over a decade to pay for themselves. The most expensive type of solar installation by cost per watt, rooftop residential, takes on the average, about 8 years for a payback. Almost all panels today are guaranteed to last for 25 years before they degrade to 80% of their original output. No, they do not produce anything when the sun goes down. That is the whole purpose of grid scale storage. And the proof that solar is the future is what the businesses are doing. I even know of a steel mill that is using solar;

• There are more than 37,000 megawatts (MW) of utility-scale solar projects currently operating, with another 112,000 MW under development.
• Utility-scale solar can be paired with energy storage to manage evening energy ramps, provide backup power, and more.
• Of the utility-scale solar contracts signed in 2018, only 11% were under a mandated renewable portfolio standard, while more than 80% of projects were signed under voluntary procurement by a utility or corporate off-taker. (Source: U.S. Solar Market Insight Report)

 

[Old Rocks]

Most of this green stuff is just scams. They generate energy from oil and gas, deliver it to batteries through wires, and claim to be "green".
The Germans are hanged from the vibration of their wind farms and want "dirty" Nord Stream for themselves.
The Green Party was convicted of being linked to pedophiles. They sat in parliament and lobbied for child abuse criminals

You are full of shit. 20% of the electricity in the US is now generated by renewables. And that percentage is steadily rising as wind and solar replace coal and even natural gas.

 

[Old Rocks]

Old Rocks Yes I've seen large scale solar farms here in Arizona. They make perfect sense and can convert useless land into very productive land.

The most interesting point in that video was that the affect on vegetation was not expected. They put solar over barren land, and then the land started growing grass, and obstructing the sun from the panels. Then they put them up higher and started farming under them in a desert that previously produced nothing. Win-win for sure.

 

[MarathonMike]

Old Rocks Yes, if you provide shade plus a power source, you can absolutely create a micro climate. I've seen it, it's quite amazing and should be replicated wherever practical.

 

[theHawk]

In what manner are they inefficient? No, they do not take over a decade to pay for themselves. The most expensive type of solar installation by cost per watt, rooftop residential, takes on the average, about 8 years for a payback. Almost all panels today are guaranteed to last for 25 years before they degrade to 80% of their original output. No, they do not produce anything when the sun goes down. That is the whole purpose of grid scale storage. And the proof that solar is the future is what the businesses are doing. I even know of a steel mill that is using solar;

• There are more than 37,000 megawatts (MW) of utility-scale solar projects currently operating, with another 112,000 MW under development.
• Utility-scale solar can be paired with energy storage to manage evening energy ramps, provide backup power, and more.
• Of the utility-scale solar contracts signed in 2018, only 11% were under a mandated renewable portfolio standard, while more than 80% of projects were signed under voluntary procurement by a utility or corporate off-taker. (Source: U.S. Solar Market Insight Report)

LOL yea sure. If it made money everyone would already be doing it. It’s reached it’s peak because the costs are terrible. Dropping 20% in efficiency is horrible and makes it near useless.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL yea sure. If it made money everyone would already be doing it. It’s reached it’s peak because the costs are terrible. Dropping 20% in efficiency is horrible and makes it near useless.

LOL Another ignorant conservative that cannot do simple math. A drop of 20% in 20 or 25 years on a 300 watt panel means that it will be putting out 240 watts at that point. Hardly useless.

Apr 5, 2021 — More than 80 per cent of all new electricity capacity added last year was renewable, with solar and wind accounting for 91 per cent of new ...

World Adds Record New Renewable Energy Capacity in 2020

Despite COVID-19 pandemic, more than 260GW of renewable energy capacity added globally in 2020, beating previous record by almost 50%

www.irena.org

 

[Mac-7]

The most interesting point in that video was that the affect on vegetation was not expected. They put solar over barren land, and then the land started growing grass, and obstructing the sun from the panels. Then they put them up higher and started farming under them in a desert that previously produced nothing. Win-win for sure.

There is something missing from your story - water

The reason that is Gobi is a desert is lack of water

And adding solar panels does not change that

As a general rule you cannot take anything the chinese do or say at face value

So proceed with caution

 

[Old Rocks]

There is something missing from your story - water

The reason that is Gobi is a desert is lack of water

And adding solar panels does not change that

As a general rule you cannot take anything the chinese do or say at face value

So proceed with caution

The solar panels serve as a wind break, and also the shading prevent the usual evaporation there. They were not watering the area under the panels where the grass started growing on it's own. In fact, they had to bring in sheep to keep the grass from getting high enough to shade the panels. As for their claims, you can literally see the area of the panels greening in satellite photos. And that group of panels was not in the Gobi, but another desert in China. There is a river nearby, so for some of the crops, they do pipe water in and irrigate. However, that was not practical before they put up the panels because of the evaporation from unprotected soil. And you might also note that they plant nitrogen fixing plants for some years before they consider the soil fit for agriculture.

 

[Mac-7]

The solar panels serve as a wind break, and also the shading prevent the usual evaporation there. They were not watering the area under the panels where the grass started growing on it's own. In fact, they had to bring in sheep to keep the grass from getting high enough to shade the panels. As for their claims, you can literally see the area of the panels greening in satellite photos. And that group of panels was not in the Gobi, but another desert in China. There is a river nearby, so for some of the crops, they do pipe water in and irrigate. However, that was not practical before they put up the panels because of the evaporation from unprotected soil. And you might also note that they plant nitrogen fixing plants for some years before they consider the soil fit for agriculture.

Unless they have a water source nothing will grow on any desert

The Hopi indians practice dry land farming for corn

but they have groundwater from melted snow plus a few inches of rain per year

I dont deny that the solar panels may be helpful since we are already doing the same thing on the US

But no matter where you are a reliable water source is a must

Simply putting up solar panels is not going to make a dry desert bloom

 

[ding]

I can’t think of a better way to usher in the next glacial cycle than the widespread use of solar panels.

 

[theHawk]

LOL Another ignorant conservative that cannot do simple math. A drop of 20% in 20 or 25 years on a 300 watt panel means that it will be putting out 240 watts at that point. Hardly useless.

Apr 5, 2021 — More than 80 per cent of all new electricity capacity added last year was renewable, with solar and wind accounting for 91 per cent of new ...

World Adds Record New Renewable Energy Capacity in 2020

Despite COVID-19 pandemic, more than 260GW of renewable energy capacity added globally in 2020, beating previous record by almost 50%

www.irena.org

A small drop in efficiency means the cost of Kwph goes up. Which means it won’t be competitive in the market. You know absolutely nothing of how the electric power business works.

Yes, most “new” generation sites are “renewables”, it doesn’t mean they will be competitive or remain in business. More than 750 solar companies have gone out of business since 2011 which means the people that bought their products are suck with a product they can’t get repaired or replaced when hardware goes bad. The biggest solar installers of home systems are losing hundreds of millions of dollars. The entire industry is a sham and would not even have a chance without massive corporate welfare from government.