Repealing the ACA would increase federal budget deficits by $137 billion over the 2016–2025 period

[AntonToo]

Tell them----->there is a difference between healthcare insurance, and healthcare coverage. It is all lefty semantics designed to muddy the waters. Do people who have a 6 to 10,000 deductible insured? Technically yes, realistically, hell no! So for leftists to pretend that Ocare is magical is a false premise, because there is a difference between health INSURANCE, and HEALTHCARE.

Realistically yes - it is YOUR CHOICE to get cheaper premium insurance with higher deductible OR go for more more expensive premiums with lower deductible.

You think $10,000 is unaffordable? How about $20,000 for pregnancy with some complications, $60,000 for a heart attack or $100,000 cancer treatment?

When you have insurance you can afford healthcare and you pay into the system, when you don't have insurance you can't, provider gets screwed, you go bankrupt and ruin your finances for a long time.

A system where 40 million of Americans went without insurance was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

 

[Anathema]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

October lyrics if it's not combined with the repeal of Medicare, Medicaid, and the requirement for hospitals to serve patients without the ability to pay.

That should all be lumped together. Get the Federal Government OUT of the health care industry entirely.

 

[EverCurious]

But you can no longer make the choice to skip having health insurance and pay for your own medical needs out of pocket - as I have done for 43 years.

Insurance is a money making scheme, always has been always will be. The Doctors and hospitals intentionally inflate their costs for "insurance carriers" - don't believe me? Go to some local doctors and ask them how much a generic service costs (Like a blood test) tell them you have no insurance and get the price, then call again and ask for the same telling them you have insurance (ask how much it costs.) Compare the results.

Auto insurance evolved as an attempt to protect innocent folks from the cost of repairing their car when someone else hit them and couldn't afford to fix it. It's what I call a "gray" rule, in that it does a "good service" in a lot of cases.

Health insurance on the other hand is a plan designed to spread the cost of personal medical needs across years, instead of paying it all up front. It was not designed to 'protect' society, but rather to protect individuals who have no, or limited, savings.

 

[imawhosure]

Tell them----->there is a difference between healthcare insurance, and healthcare coverage. It is all lefty semantics designed to muddy the waters. Do people who have a 6 to 10,000 deductible insured? Technically yes, realistically, hell no! So for leftists to pretend that Ocare is magical is a false premise, because there is a difference between health INSURANCE, and HEALTHCARE.

Realistically yes - it is YOUR CHOICE to get cheaper premium insurance with higher deductible OR go for more more expensive premiums with lower deductible.

You think $10,000 is unaffordable? How about $20,000 for pregnancy with some complications, $60,000 for a heart attack or $100,000 cancer treatment?

When you have insurance you can afford healthcare and you pay into the system, when you don't have insurance you can't, provider gets screwed, you go bankrupt and ruin your finances for a long time.

A system where 40 million of Americans went without insurance was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

The question remain--------->are these prices BECAUSE of the government, or in SPITE of government?

You say you work in healthcare? OK, then tell everyone why if you pay out of your pocket for a procedure, it is way cheaper? I know this to be true! The fact is that the government and insurance companies have pushed the price of healthcare into the stratosphere. How? Because the end user does not care what the cost is when a 3rd party pays the bill for them.......and.........the government does not care what the end bill is, when they are using other peoples money to pay the bill.

Doubt me? Then why is it that many doctors are going to once a year charge, and you get access? Easy..........because they actually make MORE money than if they join these government regulated clinics. And know what, better healthcare, and cheaper for the consumer. Ocare is a joke laid upon the American people by government. It did NOTHING to lower price, did nothing good for anyone except people who did not have healthcare. On the other hand, it did a lot of bad for people who HAD the type of healthcare they wanted. Instead, the government mandates what you have to have, regardless if you like it or not, and if you don't do what they say, they fine you!

That is SOCIALISM, like it or not. Nowhere in out constitution does it say that healthcare is a right, or that government must supply it for you. In fact, government has screwed it up like it does virtually everything it takes over.

 

[AntonToo]

But you can no longer make the choice to skip having health insurance and pay for your own medical needs out of pocket - as I have done for 43 years.

Insurance is a money making scheme, always has been always will be. The Doctors and hospitals intentionally inflate their costs for "insurance carriers" - don't believe me? Go to some local doctors and ask them how much a generic service costs (Like a blood test) tell them you have no insurance and get the price, then call again and ask for the same telling them you have insurance (ask how much it costs.) Compare the results.

Auto insurance evolved as an attempt to protect innocent folks from the cost of repairing their car when someone else hit them and couldn't afford to fix it. It's what I call a "gray" rule, in that it does a "good service" in a lot of cases.

Health insurance on the other hand is a plan designed to spread the cost of personal medical needs across years, instead of paying it all up front. It was not designed to 'protect' society, but rather to protect individuals who have no, or limited, savings.

Nonsense - a system without risk pooling does not work. There is a good reason why it doesn't exist in any developed country. Allowing medical bills to ruin people's lives is not a plan.

 

[EverCurious]

Then perhaps all the idiots should plan ahead and or not go to the ER every time they sneeze? (And yes, they do that stupid shit, especially when they have insurance. Same goes the other way, no insurance/no money is almost exclusively ER visits because the ER /must/ see them and can't turn them away.)

Related: Using the Emergency Room for Non-Emergencies « Family Webicine

 

[martybegan]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

 

[AntonToo]

Tell them----->there is a difference between healthcare insurance, and healthcare coverage. It is all lefty semantics designed to muddy the waters. Do people who have a 6 to 10,000 deductible insured? Technically yes, realistically, hell no! So for leftists to pretend that Ocare is magical is a false premise, because there is a difference between health INSURANCE, and HEALTHCARE.

Realistically yes - it is YOUR CHOICE to get cheaper premium insurance with higher deductible OR go for more more expensive premiums with lower deductible.

You think $10,000 is unaffordable? How about $20,000 for pregnancy with some complications, $60,000 for a heart attack or $100,000 cancer treatment?

When you have insurance you can afford healthcare and you pay into the system, when you don't have insurance you can't, provider gets screwed, you go bankrupt and ruin your finances for a long time.

A system where 40 million of Americans went without insurance was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

The question remain--------->are these prices BECAUSE of the government, or in SPITE of government?

You say you work in healthcare? OK, then tell everyone why if you pay out of your pocket for a procedure, it is way cheaper? I know this to be true! The fact is that the government and insurance companies have pushed the price of healthcare into the stratosphere. How? Because the end user does not care what the cost is when a 3rd party pays the bill for them.......and.........the government does not care what the end bill is, when they are using other peoples money to pay the bill.

Doubt me? Then why is it that many doctors are going to once a year charge, and you get access? Easy..........because they actually make MORE money than if they join these government regulated clinics. And know what, better healthcare, and cheaper for the consumer. Ocare is a joke laid upon the American people by government. It did NOTHING to lower price, did nothing good for anyone except people who did not have healthcare. On the other hand, it did a lot of bad for people who HAD the type of healthcare they wanted. Instead, the government mandates what you have to have, regardless if you like it or not, and if you don't do what they say, they fine you!

That is SOCIALISM, like it or not. Nowhere in out constitution does it say that healthcare is a right, or that government must supply it for you. In fact, government has screwed it up like it does virtually everything it takes over.

Medicaid and Medicare consistently pay less for healthcare than private insurances, their spending growth is way slower and they operate at much smaller overhead.

What does that tell you about who drives the price up in our healthcare system?

 

[AntonToo]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Ah yes the position of - lets take away access and being able to afford insurance for millions and increase deficits while doing that too.

 

[martybegan]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Ah yes the position of - lets take away people's access and being able to afford insurance and increase deficits while doing that too.

My insurance costs have gone up, not down. I have a larger premium with a larger deductible. I had to change to a high deductible plan, and I didn't want to.

What happened to if I liked my insurance, I could keep it, period.

and the numbers I quoted show the falsehood of the OP. The amount he is bitching about is less than a day and a half of federal spending per year. Our federal budget has gotten that bloated, and people like you want to bloat it even more.

 

[EverCurious]

Doctors Refuse To Accept Medicare Patients
Attention Medicaid Patients: The Doctor Won't Be Seeing You
Medicaid Expansion May Fail Because of Doctors' Refusal to See Patients

And tons more out there.

Why? Because medicare and medicaid punish doctors for practicing by refusing to pay the going rate - aka directly interfere in the law of supply and demand.

 

[AntonToo]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Ah yes the position of - lets take away people's access and being able to afford insurance and increase deficits while doing that too.

My insurance costs have gone up, not down. I have a larger premium with a larger deductible. I had to change to a high deductible plan, and I didn't want to.

What happened to if I liked my insurance, I could keep it, period.

and the numbers I quoted show the falsehood of the OP. The amount he is bitching about is less than a day and a half of federal spending per year. Our federal budget has gotten that bloated, and people like you want to bloat it even more.

Average policy turn over before Obamacare - 2 years

Don't Blame Obamacare For Health Insurance Turnover

Average annual premium growth before Obamacare - 8%

To listen to you Obamacare invented these issues.

 

[martybegan]

I have been with the same company for 20 years. until Obamacare my premiums went up in a nice slow manner, and my coverage remained the same.

Then Obamacare came along. I got forced into a wellness plan, the PPO option became so expensive the high deductible plan was the only one that made sense, AND my premiums have gone up much quicker, even under the high deductible plan.

AND, the "Cadillac Tax" has not even come into play yet. You can take your graphs, and cram them up your who-hole. I know what has happened to my insurance, and I don't like it.

Where are the savings I was supposed to see?

 

[imawhosure]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Ah yes the position of - lets take away access and being able to afford insurance for millions and increase deficits while doing that too.

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Ah yes the position of - lets take away people's access and being able to afford insurance and increase deficits while doing that too.

My insurance costs have gone up, not down. I have a larger premium with a larger deductible. I had to change to a high deductible plan, and I didn't want to.

What happened to if I liked my insurance, I could keep it, period.

and the numbers I quoted show the falsehood of the OP. The amount he is bitching about is less than a day and a half of federal spending per year. Our federal budget has gotten that bloated, and people like you want to bloat it even more.

And besides what Marty said Antontoo, explain why when Ocare started out, it was for American citizens, now they want to give it to everyone! Government does NOT do well in business, it overspends for everything because there is a disconnect because it is not, their, money.

What happened when Trump told Boeing forget about 4 bil for Air Force 1? Magically, the price dropped! What about when he told Lockheed Martin.......no way Jose was he going to pay the contract cost of the F-35? Down it went!

You just do not understand, the government is not a caring entity about money. Why? Because anytime they want more, they either raise your taxes, or print more of it. If they print more of it, it is still a tax on you, because what you saved is now worth less! That is why the government needs be out of medicine, and higher education!

 

[EverCurious]

Not to mention the "bottomless pockets" effect it has on medical costs, the state will eat whatever costs the doctors/hospitals charges regardless, vs the natural competition model when private citizens are on the line for the costs. The reason medical care went up in the first place is because of insurance (before ACA).

 

[usmbguest5318]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Read the document. That is the least conservative outlook. It is not the full story.

Be that as it may, I should hope I don't see you complaining about government spending anything less than $13.7 billion on anything.

 

[martybegan]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Read the document. That is the least conservative outlook. It is not the full story.

Be that as it may, I should hope I don't see you complaining about government spending anything less than $13.7 billion on anything.

I am complaining about the deceptive nature of the OP. He makes a small % of the federal budget seem like a lot of $$ relatively.

Plus I note you glaze over the rest of my statements.....

Why am I not saving $$ on my healthcare?

 

[usmbguest5318]

30 million people are not on ObamaCare

Can you clarify what meant by that? There are some 320+ million citizens/people in the U.S. and something like 20 million of them use Obamacare. The rest get their insurance elsewhere or they don't have insurance.[/QUOTE]

I had to change to a high deductible plan, and I didn't want to. What happened to if I liked my insurance, I could keep it, period.

Who held the gun to your head when you chose your plan? There are high deductible plans, but there are also plans that have no deductible. You should have chosen something other than a high deductible plan.

the numbers I quoted show the falsehood of the OP. The amount he is bitching about is less than a day and a half of federal spending per year. Our federal budget has gotten that bloated, and people like you want to bloat it even more.

Since when does $13.7 billion dollars added to the deficit not constitute "bloating it even more?"

What can $13.7B buy?

• Provide $90K in gross wages to 152,222 people
• Buy 44,771 $306K homes
• Feed 1.463M+ people for a year. ($180/week spent on food)

And as I said, the $137B figure is the most liberal projection. Read the report to see what is the more conservative one.

 

[martybegan]

I had to change to a high deductible plan, and I didn't want to. What happened to if I liked my insurance, I could keep it, period.

Who held the gun to your head when you chose your plan? There are high deductible plans, but there are also plans that have no deductible. You should have chosen something other than a high deductible plan.

the numbers I quoted show the falsehood of the OP. The amount he is bitching about is less than a day and a half of federal spending per year. Our federal budget has gotten that bloated, and people like you want to bloat it even more.[/QUOTE]

Since when does $13.7 billion dollars added to the deficit not constitute "bloating it even more?"

What can $13.7B buy?

• Provide $90K in gross wages to 152,222 people
• Buy 44,771 $306K homes
• Feed 1.463M+ people for a year. ($180/week spent on food)

And as I said, the $137B figure is the most liberal projection. Read the report to see what is the more conservative one.

30 million people are not on ObamaCare

Can you clarify what meant by that? There are some 320+ million citizens/people in the U.S. and something like 20 million of them use Obamacare. The rest get their insurance elsewhere or they don't have insurance.

The cost for the PPO premium went up dramatically, and the high deductible made more sense economically. Again, I could not keep the plan I liked.

Why did Obama have to lie?

 

[usmbguest5318]

The claim in the title is from the Congressional Budget Office.

Before you make a fool of yourself, click the damn link and read the report.

So that translates to 13.7 billion per year, which is the equivalent of about a day and a half of federal operating costs.

Read the document. That is the least conservative outlook. It is not the full story.

Be that as it may, I should hope I don't see you complaining about government spending anything less than $13.7 billion on anything.

I am complaining about the deceptive nature of the OP. He makes a small % of the federal budget seem like a lot of $$ relatively.

Plus I note you glaze over the rest of my statements.....

Why am I not saving $$ on my healthcare?

By what standard is 13.7B not a lot of money?

• 2010 Budget of the Department of Commerce: $13.9B
• 2010 Budget of the Department of the Interior: $12B
• 2010 Budget of the Department of Labor: $13.5B
• 2010 Budget of the Department of the Treasury: $13.4B
• 2010 Budget of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers: $5.5B
• 2010 Budget of the EPA: $10B
• Cost to repair America's bridges: $140B (the fix would be done in 10.2 years at $13.7B/year spending)
• $13.7B/year will pay for 548,000 people's $25K/year college tuition. That's 5.48 million people graduating with degrees that position them for higher career earnings than if they were to not have degrees.