Republicans really aren't smart enough to understand capitalism

[ThunderKiss1965]

No one I know has ever said no regulations. Having almost 100,000 pages of regulations is fucking retarded.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

 

[Billy000]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

 

[dblack]

What about that constitutional right to petition government? Doesn't lobbying fit under that umbrella?

Sure. The lobbying isn't the problem. The problem is what government does on behalf of the lobbyists.

My mistake. I thought you just told me we needed a law forbidding lobbying.

Ahh.. no. We just need a strong constitutional prohibition against government manipulating markets.

 

[dblack]

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Yep. And here's the thing: My doctor isn't a billionaire. I'm pretty sure my pharmacist isn't either. The real money In health care is made (or rather "collected", they certainly aren't adding value) by those with the power and influence to lobby government for special favor.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

 

[whitehall]

A freaking Sanders democrat socialist tried to murder an entire republican (capitalist) baseball team a couple of months ago and lefties want to lecture republicans about the theory of capitalism? Give me a break.

 

[Billy000]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

 

[Billy000]

A freaking Sanders democrat socialist tried to murder an entire republican (capitalist) baseball team a couple of months ago and lefties want to lecture republicans about the theory of capitalism? Give me a break.

Bernie's agenda subscribes to social democratic principles which still involves a private market economy.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

No, because Regulations only hurt the economy, anyway. If the government was never expanded far enough to abuse its power, Lobbyists wouldn't be there to tempt it to do so. Besides that, it's not shifting blame, it's a blatant FACT that patents and government control are what caused the problems with Healthcare. Whether or not people want to SEE that it's the problem has no affect on the fact that it's the case.

 

[Billy000]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

No, because Regulations only hurt the economy, anyway. If the government was never expanded far enough to abuse its power, Lobbyists wouldn't be there to tempt it to do so. Besides that, it's not shifting blame, it's a blatant FACT that patents and government control are what caused the problems with Healthcare. Whether or not people want to SEE that it's the problem has no affect on the fact that it's the case.

lol oh so you forgive their temptation of selfish greed? Come on that is so lame. You're smarter than this, Pumpkin.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

1. No evidence of so-called wealth disparity exists aside from the wealthy disparity of more capitalist countries to less capitalist countries, where the more capitalist countries come out far ahead.

2. Yes and no. The main cause was the loose monetary policy of the Federal Reserve creating a huge bubble in real estate after the dot-com bubble burst, but there certainly was corruption. Government regulations corrupted the incentives that would have existed on a free market and caused many absurd loans to take place that should not have.

3. This is entirely possible. I don't know the statistics.

4. We don't have a free market based health care system, or health insurance system, despite your implication. What we have is a highly regulated disaster that makes absolutely no logical sense. It's as far from capitalism as we get in the United States.

5. "Keep the money they save rather than invest it." Where do you think they keep it? In their mattresses? They keep the money they save in banks. Do you know what banks do with the money that people leave with them? Invest it.

If you're looking for people who don't understand capitalism, I'd start with a mirror.

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

No, because Regulations only hurt the economy, anyway. If the government was never expanded far enough to abuse its power, Lobbyists wouldn't be there to tempt it to do so. Besides that, it's not shifting blame, it's a blatant FACT that patents and government control are what caused the problems with Healthcare. Whether or not people want to SEE that it's the problem has no affect on the fact that it's the case.

lol oh so you forgive their temptation of selfish greed? Come on that is so lame. You're smarter than this, Pumpkin.

The government shouldn't have the power to influence the market in the first place, as no good comes from it. Besides that, there would be no way to prevent lobbyists from lobbying the government in the first place, outside of taking away that power that the government shouldn't have in the first place.

 

[Billy000]

1) Last I checked, the average CEO's wealth is 300x the average worker.

2) Why do you people insist with this bullshit that government red tape is the reason our healthcare system is so fucked? It's because of corporate greed and lobbying.

3) You do know billionaires exist right?

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

No, because Regulations only hurt the economy, anyway. If the government was never expanded far enough to abuse its power, Lobbyists wouldn't be there to tempt it to do so. Besides that, it's not shifting blame, it's a blatant FACT that patents and government control are what caused the problems with Healthcare. Whether or not people want to SEE that it's the problem has no affect on the fact that it's the case.

lol oh so you forgive their temptation of selfish greed? Come on that is so lame. You're smarter than this, Pumpkin.

The government shouldn't have the power to influence the market in the first place, as no good comes from it. Besides that, there would be no way to prevent lobbyists from lobbying the government in the first place, outside of taking away that power that the government shouldn't have in the first place.

Look, you can put fault on the government for this - I agree. But we both know you are being disingenuous about the fault of corporations taking advantage of the system.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

No, because Regulations only hurt the economy, anyway. If the government was never expanded far enough to abuse its power, Lobbyists wouldn't be there to tempt it to do so. Besides that, it's not shifting blame, it's a blatant FACT that patents and government control are what caused the problems with Healthcare. Whether or not people want to SEE that it's the problem has no affect on the fact that it's the case.

lol oh so you forgive their temptation of selfish greed? Come on that is so lame. You're smarter than this, Pumpkin.

The government shouldn't have the power to influence the market in the first place, as no good comes from it. Besides that, there would be no way to prevent lobbyists from lobbying the government in the first place, outside of taking away that power that the government shouldn't have in the first place.

Look, you can put fault on the government for this - I agree. But we both know you are being disingenuous about the fault of corporations taking advantage of the system.

Corporations wouldn't be 'taking advantage' if the government didn't have that power to take advantage of. In fact, the reason the government is so powerful right now is to suit the demands of lobbyists. The government should have no power to influence the economy whatsoever, regulations damage the economy, and that power is sold to lobbyists, creating a Fascistic Corporatist State instead of actual Capitalist. Even if that power was in the hands of someone who wouldn't abuse it, there's zero guarantee that nobody down the line would abuse it, and in fact, the probability of someone abusing it is much higher than the opposite. That's only one of many reasons as to why big government is a bad idea.

Whether or not corporations are at fault or not doesn't matter, because the government is the key party in the wrongdoing here. They hold the power to sell to lobbyists, and they choose not to say no. Even if a leader is put in place that does say no, someone down the line will say yes, and the latter is far more likely than the former. The corporations lobbying for the government to misuse that power, which it shouldn't have, are static, but the government is the constant. Taking the power that the constant shouldn't have in the first place, also solves the issue with the static parties, and puts the economy back into optimal productivity.

 

[Tehon]

What about that constitutional right to petition government? Doesn't lobbying fit under that umbrella?

Sure. The lobbying isn't the problem. The problem is what government does on behalf of the lobbyists.

My mistake. I thought you just told me we needed a law forbidding lobbying.

Ahh.. no. We just need a strong constitutional prohibition against government manipulating markets.

I'm not sure what you have in mind exactly but I don't believe we should restrict the rights of the people to affect our economy thru our elected representatives. The economy is there to serve us in whichever way we choose to be best.

 

[Conservative65]

They like to think they understand it, but they really don't.

Think about the consequences of leaving the free market unregulated and letting the high powered corporate lobbyists make all the rules. This is what's resulted and these are all FACTS:

1) A shockingly huge wealth disparity between the mega rich and the middle class and poor has grown over the course of a few decades. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of inflation despite productivity soaring in most sectors. Most income gains have gone to the top earners in this country for the last few decades.

2) Wall Street corruption directly resulted in the Great Recession of 2008.

3) Corporate crime largely goes unpunished, and when it is punished, the results are petty fines.

4) Our for-profit healthcare system has resulted in many basic, critical healthcare services being unavailable to the poor and in some cases the middle class. Prescription drug prices, specifically, in this country are astronomically high in comparison to other countries providing the exact same drugs. If you dumbasses actually think our healthcare system was even remotely affordable prior to ACA then you might as well relinquish your voting rights because you aren't smart enough for the right.

5) Cutting taxes for corporations and top earners does NOTHING to stimulate the overall economy. Why? Because it's easier to keep the money they save rather than invest it. They are already wealthier than ever before. There is no incentive for them to invest in a stronger labor force.

Now am I suggesting we get rid of capitalism? Absolutely not. I just want a system that guarantees more capital to the poor and shrinking middle class. The basics of the free market system are what helped make this country a super power. It's just gone awry over the last couple of decades.

Here's a bonus task: name ANY republican economic policy that has benefited the middle class. Go ahead. I'll wait.

We know why you love socialism. You've realized you can't make it in a system where you actually have to have something to offer. Socialists are those that have nothing to offer, therefore, they have to rely on someone else that does in order to have a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of.

 

[Tehon]

The government shouldn't have the power to influence the market in the first place, as no good comes from it.

Child labor laws are not good?

 

[dblack]

The economy is there to serve us in whichever way we choose to be best.

The economy is people working and trading. They're not there to "serve" anyone, least of all government.

The economy (again, just people) isn't the property of the state.

 

[Tehon]

Because that IS the reason. If the government didn't have power over the economy, there would be no lobbyists. Putting the government in control of healthcare means there's no competition anymore, allowing price gouging and creating a monopoly. What we have right now is the next-to-worst case scenario in terms of Healthcare. Every problem within the healthcare system, every single little problem, is because of government. From the system in its entirety, right down the the cost of medicine, caused by patents and regulations, both the government's fault.

My family's costs went from 50$ for all of us, to 150$ for six of us.

Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put all the blame on the government and not ANY to the actual lobbyists?

No, because Regulations only hurt the economy, anyway. If the government was never expanded far enough to abuse its power, Lobbyists wouldn't be there to tempt it to do so. Besides that, it's not shifting blame, it's a blatant FACT that patents and government control are what caused the problems with Healthcare. Whether or not people want to SEE that it's the problem has no affect on the fact that it's the case.

lol oh so you forgive their temptation of selfish greed? Come on that is so lame. You're smarter than this, Pumpkin.

The government shouldn't have the power to influence the market in the first place, as no good comes from it. Besides that, there would be no way to prevent lobbyists from lobbying the government in the first place, outside of taking away that power that the government shouldn't have in the first place.

Look, you can put fault on the government for this - I agree. But we both know you are being disingenuous about the fault of corporations taking advantage of the system.

And we both know that the accumulation of private capital is the real culprit. Yet for some reason you still favor it.

 

[Tehon]

The economy is there to serve us in whichever way we choose to be best.

The economy is people working and trading. They're not there to "serve" anyone, least of all government.

The economy (again, just people) isn't the property of the state.

The economy serves to allocate resources throughout society. It serves our society. As does government. We have the ability to arrange them in ways that best suit our needs as a society.