Richard Dawkins and The Ignorance of The New Atheism

[Blues Man]

So are they books about god or are they more than that?

They are books about people's experiences with God and living in His ways. Don't lose sight that the main focus of these books is about the people and their response(s).

And are only meaningful if you believe these accounts actually happened.

 

[Meriweather]

And are only meaningful if you believe these accounts actually happened.

You don't believe David double-crossed Saul, or that Rebecca and Esau double-crossed Isaac and Jacob?

 

[sealybobo]

Well half of you who are thinking for yourselves are wrong. Fact is if American Christians were alright with Donald Trump, then that alone tells me organized religions are just bullshit. Now I see how Catholics went along with Hitler and American Christians went along with slavery. But then hundreds of years later claim that Nazi's were not Christians and that it was Christians who freed the slaves.

I am betting that President Trump and I agree on many political issues and disagree on many issues of faith. Are you thinking that people of faith are cookie cutter stamps of one another? If so, think again. The people in my parish--even in my smaller church groups--are as different as night is from day. What bothers me is our arrogance after the fact. You are so certain that had you lived in the antebellum South or in Hitler's Germany, you would have single-handedly brought both to their knees. As for me, I know for a fact, I cannot get one person to change his/her mind about abortion--which I feel is ten times more horrible than both slavery and Hitler.

You do? You think aborting a fetus is 10 times worse than subjecting someone to a lifetime of slavery? Or you think aborting a fetus is worse than marching a real human into an oven? You're insane.

I'm certain that during slavery, I would have known it was wrong to own humans even if they were black. There were liberals back then you know. Just like there were liberals in Germany who hid Jews from the Nazi's.

Just like today I advocate for things like affirmative action. A real christian would understand the need for such diversity programs. But you probably don't like affirmative action right? In my eyes you are a typical christian. No you aren't all cookie cutter but most of you aren't the best cookies. You might not be a raisin cookie but you certainly aren't a chocolate chip or peanut butter cookie. Maybe you are a oatmeal cookie. Not great but not the worse. LOL

 

[Meriweather]

You do? You think aborting a fetus is 10 times worse than subjecting someone to a lifetime of slavery?

Life is a great gift. To take it is the first wrong, the ultimate wrong, which is why the Holocaust is wrong. It is interesting that some can understand taking an adult life is wrong, but can't understand the horror of taking a life in its beginning stages. Slavery, in its way, is also the murder of a life that would have otherwise been lived. Which murder is the worst? We agree that murder is bad, but many dismiss the murder of life at its beginning as not really murder. That is why I consider it worst of all...the fact people can be convinced, just as people were convinced slavery was not wrong, that eliminating Jews was not wrong. We have come to the understanding that slavery is wrong, the Holocaust was wrong, but not yet that the murder of life in its beginning stages is also wrong. I find horror in that, the same horror I find in slavery and the Holocaust. Because I find horror in it, I suspect I am more confident than you that had I lived in those other times, I would have also found horror in those practices.

 

[TNHarley]

I suppose if you believe in zombie kings

 

[TNHarley]

None of the Bible was ever written in Hebrew.

Probably one of the dumbest things i have read in the religion forum.

 

[Meriweather]

Just like today I advocate for things like affirmative action. A real christian would understand the need for such diversity programs. But you probably don't like affirmative action right? In my eyes you are a typical christian. No you aren't all cookie cutter but most of you aren't the best cookies. You might not be a raisin cookie but you certainly aren't a chocolate chip or peanut butter cookie. Maybe you are a oatmeal cookie. Not great but not the worse. LOL

Have you talked with those being "helped" by affirmative action as it is today? People I work with thought it was a good springboard but should have been eliminated years ago. Their reasoning? They hate being patronized, that the government feels they need "helped" and cannot look out for themselves. Further they disdain the idea of being grateful for government help. (As you might guess, I hang with a lot of libertarians.) Minorities I hang with point out that all affirmative action does these days is work to pit minorities against one another.

Keep Ronald Reagan's words in mind: The scariest line in America is, "I am from the government and I am here to help." Offer opportunities, not handouts where fawning gratitude (in the form of votes) is expected.

 

[TNHarley]

Again why would an awesome universe wide creator, the all knowing, most powerful being in existence be so concerned about needing to be worshipped by small clump of cells beings on a small mudball in a massive universe?

 

[sealybobo]

You do? You think aborting a fetus is 10 times worse than subjecting someone to a lifetime of slavery?

Life is a great gift. To take it is the first wrong, the ultimate wrong, which is why the Holocaust is wrong. It is interesting that some can understand taking an adult life is wrong, but can't understand the horror of taking a life in its beginning stages. Slavery, in its way, is also the murder of a life that would have otherwise been lived. Which murder is the worst? We agree that murder is bad, but many dismiss the murder of life at its beginning as not really murder. That is why I consider it worst of all...the fact people can be convinced, just as people were convinced slavery was not wrong, that eliminating Jews was not wrong. We have come to the understanding that slavery is wrong, the Holocaust was wrong, but not yet that the murder of life in its beginning stages is also wrong. I find horror in that, the same horror I find in slavery and the Holocaust. Because I find horror in it, I suspect I am more confident than you that had I lived in those other times, I would have also found horror in those practices.

Us liberals admit and agree it's wrong. But it's a necessary evil. If not, why doesn't the US Supreme court make it illegal? Don't you have enough conservatives on the bench to do this? So it seems even they don't agree with you.

We all know it's a life but the sad truth is, life isn't that precious. If we treated life more precious then I would agree with you. If money weren't an issue for poor people, I would agree there is no reason to get an abortion. But the sad truth is some people shouldn't and don't want to be parents or have a baby. Don't come back with that give it up for adoption bullshit either. Not gonna happen. The sad truth is for a lot of women, abortion is the only option they want and they should have the right because that seed in their womb is no more precious than a cow fetus. I know humans think that human life is more special but I promise you, it isn't. Again, if it were, abortion would be illegal. This issue has been settled. A seed in the first trimester isn't so precious of a life that it can't be aborted. And don't give me that crap about the fetus feels pain. BS. It's over in a second. I know this is harsh but that's reality.

Now I agree living humans are precious and I don't like the way Republicans seem to not care about living humans once they pop out of the womb. It is another confirmation that you christians are fos. You care about the fetus but don't want to provide free school lunch to poor kids. What's that all about?

Way too many anti abortion women get knocked up and then get abortions. Fact is, if it happens to you at the wrong time, you'll get an abortion too. Lucky for you you've never been in a position where you had to choose college or have the baby. If it were me I'd choose college. You can always have kids later.

 

[Meriweather]

Us liberals admit and agree it's wrong. But it's a necessary evil. If not, why doesn't the US Supreme court make it illegal? Don't you have enough conservatives on the bench to do this? So it seems even they don't agree with you.

Let the majority decide what is right? Do you see (down through the ages) what might go wrong letting the majority deciding right and wrong? The majority usually decides in favor of what is easiest (or brings in money).

 

[ding]

Again why would an awesome universe wide creator, the all knowing, most powerful being in existence be so concerned about needing to be worshipped by small clump of cells beings on a small mudball in a massive universe?

I missed this the first time. Hat tip to TNHarley for alerting me to it.

Worship is not for God, it's for us. It's your understanding of what worship means that is flawed. It's not your fault though. The original meaning of what worship means has been lost through time.

 

[Meriweather]

We all know it's a life but the sad truth is, life isn't that precious. If we treated life more precious then I would agree with you. If money weren't an issue for poor people, I would agree there is no reason to get an abortion. But the sad truth is some people shouldn't and don't want to be parents or have a baby. Don't come back with that give it up for adoption bullshit either. Not gonna happen. The sad truth is for a lot of women, abortion is the only option they want and they should have the right because that seed in their womb is no more precious than a cow fetus. I know humans think that human life is more special but I promise you, it isn't. Again, if it were, abortion would be illegal. This issue has been settled. A seed in the first trimester isn't so precious of a life that it can't be aborted. And don't give me that crap about the fetus feels pain. BS. It's over in a second. I know this is harsh but that's reality.

Calling something sad doesn't make it any less wrong or horrible. Noting some shouldn't be parents is not only giving up on the baby, but on the parents as well. Not willing to settle for either.

 

[Meriweather]

Now I agree living humans are precious and I don't like the way Republicans seem to not care about living humans once they pop out of the womb. It is another confirmation that you christians are fos. You care about the fetus but don't want to provide free school lunch to poor kids. What's that all about?

The point you are not getting is that people are not against providing lunch to poor kids AND food to hungry adults. We are against GOVERNMENT doing this. Individuals, not government, have the responsibility for caring for those at our door (in our community). Government isn't needed. What we have are individuals who don't want to be bothered sloughing off their own responsibility and then claiming they are the caring ones because they got someone else to shoulder what should be a personal responsibility for individuals to care for one another. So many seem proud of this accomplishment--that they got someone else to paint their picket fence (to borrow from Tom Sawyer). Liberal stance: Government Provides. People of faith not needed. Or wanted.

 

[Meriweather]

Way too many anti abortion women get knocked up and then get abortions. Fact is, if it happens to you at the wrong time, you'll get an abortion too. Lucky for you you've never been in a position where you had to choose college or have the baby. If it were me I'd choose college. You can always have kids later.

Can't have that kid later.

 

[sealybobo]

Just like today I advocate for things like affirmative action. A real christian would understand the need for such diversity programs. But you probably don't like affirmative action right? In my eyes you are a typical christian. No you aren't all cookie cutter but most of you aren't the best cookies. You might not be a raisin cookie but you certainly aren't a chocolate chip or peanut butter cookie. Maybe you are a oatmeal cookie. Not great but not the worse. LOL

Have you talked with those being "helped" by affirmative action as it is today? People I work with thought it was a good springboard but should have been eliminated years ago. Their reasoning? They hate being patronized, that the government feels they need "helped" and cannot look out for themselves. Further they disdain the idea of being grateful for government help. (As you might guess, I hang with a lot of libertarians.) Minorities I hang with point out that all affirmative action does these days is work to pit minorities against one another.

Keep Ronald Reagan's words in mind: The scariest line in America is, "I am from the government and I am here to help." Offer opportunities, not handouts where fawning gratitude (in the form of votes) is expected.

My brother was told to find a diversity candidate to take his VP job. He was burned out and didn't want to do it anymore. White men. All white men run corporate America. Do you understand this? Aren't you a woman?

So my brother finds Maria. He mentors her. She learns the job. Next thing you know another company pays her double to come work for them. Because qualified diversity candidates are hard to come by. Now Maria makes $1 million dollars a year.

Maria is not crying about affirmative action. The truth is most women don't realize how much affirmative action has helped WOMEN and how far you still have to go until you are fairly represented in the executive board rooms.

Same for blacks.

So no lady, you can not look out for yourself. Because of bias and the good old boys club. Diversity programs are designed to fight that bias.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Again why would an awesome universe wide creator, the all knowing, most powerful being in existence be so concerned about needing to be worshipped by small clump of cells beings on a small mudball in a massive universe?

I missed this the first time. Hat tip to TNHarley for alerting me to it.

Worship is not for God, it's for us. It's your understanding of what worship means that is flawed. It's not your fault though. The original meaning of what worship means has been lost through time.

Ha ha, not correct and this according to Merriam-Webster:

1: to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power

and,

1: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power also : an act of expressing such reverence
2: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

===

What does the BIBLE say about Worship?

Worship In Church

Psalm 150:1-6 ESV /
Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! ...

John 4:23 ESV /
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

Psalm 33:1-4 ESV /
Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous! Praise befits the upright. Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre; make melody to him with the harp of ten strings! Sing to him a new song; play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts. For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his work is done in faithfulness.

Romans 12:1 ESV /
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

On and on it goes.

===

Christians Bible Studies

What is true worship?

" We worship God because he is God. Period. Our extravagant love and extreme submission to the Holy One flows out of the reality that God loved us first. It is highly appropriate to thank God for all the things he has done for us. However, true worship is shallow if it is solely an acknowledgement of God's wealth. Psalm 96:5-6 says, "For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens. Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and glory are in his sanctuary." In other words, our worship must be toward the one who is worthy simply because of his identity as the Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent One, and not just because God is wealthy and able to meet our needs and answer our prayers. We must focus our practice of worship on the worthiness of God and not his wealthiness.

======

I find it amusing that as an Atheist, having to teach a Christian on what Worship is.

 

[ding]

Again why would an awesome universe wide creator, the all knowing, most powerful being in existence be so concerned about needing to be worshipped by small clump of cells beings on a small mudball in a massive universe?

I missed this the first time. Hat tip to TNHarley for alerting me to it.

Worship is not for God, it's for us. It's your understanding of what worship means that is flawed. It's not your fault though. The original meaning of what worship means has been lost through time.

Ha ha, not correct and this according to Merriam-Webster:

1: to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power

and,

1: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power also : an act of expressing such reverence
2: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

===

What does the BIBLE say about Worship?

Worship In Church

Psalm 150:1-6 ESV /
Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! ...

John 4:23 ESV /
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

Psalm 33:1-4 ESV /
Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous! Praise befits the upright. Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre; make melody to him with the harp of ten strings! Sing to him a new song; play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts. For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his work is done in faithfulness.

Romans 12:1 ESV /
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

On and on it goes.

===

Christians Bible Studies

What is true worship?

" We worship God because he is God. Period. Our extravagant love and extreme submission to the Holy One flows out of the reality that God loved us first. It is highly appropriate to thank God for all the things he has done for us. However, true worship is shallow if it is solely an acknowledgement of God's wealth. Psalm 96:5-6 says, "For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens. Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and glory are in his sanctuary." In other words, our worship must be toward the one who is worthy simply because of his identity as the Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent One, and not just because God is wealthy and able to meet our needs and answer our prayers. We must focus our practice of worship on the worthiness of God and not his wealthiness.

======

I find it amusing that as an Atheist, having to teach a Christian on what Worship is.

Don't care. The meaning has been lost through time. When properly understood and practiced, the worshiper reaps the rewards. Of which are amazing and bountiful.

 

[Meriweather]

So no lady, you can not look out for yourself. Because of bias and the good old boys club. Diversity programs are designed to fight that bias.

Not my experience. When I was in that situation, horrors of all horrors, when I brought the matter to their attention, white men agreed with my point and put things right. You can say I was lucky, you can say it was my abilities, but I never needed government help, and the men and women I worked with (and for) needed the government to do any fighting for me. Not only that, there has never been anyone to fight against. Most people have a natural inclination towards fairness. Perhaps you don't and believe no one else does either? How much government help have you personally needed throughout your life that you believe everyone else needs it, too?

By the way, because genealogy is a hobby, I no for a fact no female ancestor of mine ever stood for any man patronizing or disrespecting her. In my very humble lineage, women owned small businesses as a sideline for other accomplishments. They were executors (when history books in error tell us, women couldn't be executors). They sailed across the ocean on their own, traveled the wilderness on their own (when history books tell us that women couldn't travel on their own that she had to go where her husband was. Tell that to one of my female ancestors who told her husband he could stay in the colonies if he wanted, but she was sailing back to England. On her own.

Again, how much have you had to depend on the government or someone else to stand up for you? Don't you ever find that having to always find someone else to fight your shadow battles for you belittling? Don't tell this lady she can't fight. She has--and so have ladies before her. Don't be so patronizing.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Again why would an awesome universe wide creator, the all knowing, most powerful being in existence be so concerned about needing to be worshipped by small clump of cells beings on a small mudball in a massive universe?

I missed this the first time. Hat tip to TNHarley for alerting me to it.

Worship is not for God, it's for us. It's your understanding of what worship means that is flawed. It's not your fault though. The original meaning of what worship means has been lost through time.

Ha ha, not correct and this according to Merriam-Webster:

1: to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power

and,

1: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power also : an act of expressing such reverence
2: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

===

What does the BIBLE say about Worship?

Worship In Church

Psalm 150:1-6 ESV /
Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! ...

John 4:23 ESV /
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

Psalm 33:1-4 ESV /
Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous! Praise befits the upright. Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre; make melody to him with the harp of ten strings! Sing to him a new song; play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts. For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his work is done in faithfulness.

Romans 12:1 ESV /
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

On and on it goes.

===

Christians Bible Studies

What is true worship?

" We worship God because he is God. Period. Our extravagant love and extreme submission to the Holy One flows out of the reality that God loved us first. It is highly appropriate to thank God for all the things he has done for us. However, true worship is shallow if it is solely an acknowledgement of God's wealth. Psalm 96:5-6 says, "For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens. Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and glory are in his sanctuary." In other words, our worship must be toward the one who is worthy simply because of his identity as the Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent One, and not just because God is wealthy and able to meet our needs and answer our prayers. We must focus our practice of worship on the worthiness of God and not his wealthiness.

======

I find it amusing that as an Atheist, having to teach a Christian on what Worship is.

Don't care. The meaning has been lost through time. When properly understood and practiced, the worshiper reaps the rewards. Of which are amazing and bountiful.

I gave you several ways to show what Worship is about INCLUDING the BIBLE , which you apparently don't agree with , that is classic irrational thinking on your part.

You are now embarrassing yourself here.

 

[ding]

Again why would an awesome universe wide creator, the all knowing, most powerful being in existence be so concerned about needing to be worshipped by small clump of cells beings on a small mudball in a massive universe?

I missed this the first time. Hat tip to TNHarley for alerting me to it.

Worship is not for God, it's for us. It's your understanding of what worship means that is flawed. It's not your fault though. The original meaning of what worship means has been lost through time.

Ha ha, not correct and this according to Merriam-Webster:

1: to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power

and,

1: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power also : an act of expressing such reverence
2: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

===

What does the BIBLE say about Worship?

Worship In Church

Psalm 150:1-6 ESV /
Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! ...

John 4:23 ESV /
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

Psalm 33:1-4 ESV /
Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous! Praise befits the upright. Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre; make melody to him with the harp of ten strings! Sing to him a new song; play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts. For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his work is done in faithfulness.

Romans 12:1 ESV /
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

On and on it goes.

===

Christians Bible Studies

What is true worship?

" We worship God because he is God. Period. Our extravagant love and extreme submission to the Holy One flows out of the reality that God loved us first. It is highly appropriate to thank God for all the things he has done for us. However, true worship is shallow if it is solely an acknowledgement of God's wealth. Psalm 96:5-6 says, "For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens. Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and glory are in his sanctuary." In other words, our worship must be toward the one who is worthy simply because of his identity as the Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent One, and not just because God is wealthy and able to meet our needs and answer our prayers. We must focus our practice of worship on the worthiness of God and not his wealthiness.

======

I find it amusing that as an Atheist, having to teach a Christian on what Worship is.

Don't care. The meaning has been lost through time. When properly understood and practiced, the worshiper reaps the rewards. Of which are amazing and bountiful.

I gave you several ways to show what Worship is about INCLUDING the BIBLE , which you apparently don't agree with , that is classic irrational thinking on your part.

You are now embarrassing yourself here.

Nice chatting with you.