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off topicYou don't have a problem with going to war to make a few billionaires wealthier?
off topicSure the American ruling class often meets its business objectives when it supports wars, at the expense of Americans and all of the people they kill abroad. How is that something to be proud of?
does not address the question askedAs far as whether abortion or all of this transgender confusion is good, no of course not.
zygote, embryo, undeveloped fetus, communist, all fall into the same category for meIt's always better for a woman to get pregnant when she's married and is ready to be a mother. It's horrible to see our youth so sexually confused. However, your opinion about whether a zygote, embryo, or undeveloped fetus is a human being or not, shouldn't prevent a woman from ending her pregnancy,
and your claim was that capitalism was providing for these services and not communismespecially when you support government policies that undermine her ability to provide for herself and her children. If single mothers had a bit more support from society, and from their government, perhaps they would be more inclined to not abort their pregnancies. Socialism reduces abortion because it addresses scarcity, providing people with at least their basic needs.
lol...yeah, when ya put it like that it makes no sense at allBy creating our own wealth, socialism for the rich at the expense of the working-class wouldn't be a problem? How do you figure that by you becoming rich, somehow makes it OK for the rich to continue exploiting the poor and working class people? Trillions of dollars in bailouts and warmongering isn't going to be a problem if I personally become rich? Don't I live in a society with other people? I don't live in a vacuum. If I hurt the working-class, I hurt myself. The working-class is my paying consumer. That's my market and the backbone of the economy.
You're not making much sense.
My first post to you:
And your very first reply [off topic] to it
Couchpotato
You wrote:
"You dont have to support the government subsidization of a person's entire life....."
Response:
I'm not advocating for the government to "subsidize" a person's "entire life", that's an exaggerated description of what I'm actually saying. What I am pointing out is that you seem to be so interested in the welfare and survival of zygotes, embryos, and fetuses, in other people's wombs, while not showing much concern for the welfare and survival of children and their single mothers. Many of these women who abort their pregnancies, do so for financial reasons. Your conservative, Republican politics defunds government social programs that assist single mothers who are in need of assistance, with housing, food, daycare services, job training, school lunches..etc. You show zero concern for these single mothers in their efforts to raise their children, whom you forced to give birth to, yet expect us to consider your concern for the life of embryos and fetuses seriously. You have a lot of love and compassion for embryos and fetuses, but nothing for single mothers and their babies.
You wrote:
just because you don't think murdering them is ok. Thats seriously faulty logic.
Response:
You consider zygotes, embryos, and undeveloped fetuses human beings, but nonetheless, it's not necessarily the case, that they are actually human beings or persons. That's just your opinion. I and many others, consider zygotes, embryos and undeveloped, unviable fetuses, potential human beings, not actual ones. You show more concern for potential human beings than for actual human beings, namely single mothers and their babies. Your Republican politics that defunds important social programs for the poor, results in more death and murder, so your claim that you're preventing murder is absurd. Our prisons are full of violent criminals who were born and raised by single mothers, in abject poverty, in very dangerous, unhealthy circumstances that could've been mitigated by government social programs, that you are defunding.
You wrote:
Whether I support cradle to grave welfare/government assistance. or even something as simple as food stamps or WIC has nothing to do with my stance on whether killing an innocent human being is ok or not.
Response:
You seem to care a lot about the welfare and survival of "human beings" in wombs, but don't care much for their welfare and survival outside of the womb. You defund social programs that help the single mothers who you want to force to remain pregnant and give birth, to human beings that are going to live in horrible conditions, that can very well lead to child neglect, abuse and even death. The probability of these children growing up and becoming violent criminals due to being raised in crime, drug infested and unhealthy environments is much greater than a child born and raised by parents who want and can support them.
You're also indifferent to the fact that pregnancy has its own set of difficulties and hazards for the woman who you want to force to remain pregnant for nine months. They might lose their jobs and who's going to support them? Do you care if she becomes homeless with the fetus or baby that you supposedly care so much about? Your concern for what is in the womb, is simply a false facade masking your contempt for women who you consider promiscuous. You want to punish "harlots", hence your attempt to force them to remain pregnant and give birth. You have no right, even Biblically, to force women to remain pregnant. It's simply your opinion that what they've conceived in the early stages of gestation is a human being. Women's wombs or reproductive systems shouldn't be subject or held hostage by your personal opinions.
You wrote:
Call me crazy but murder is always bad.
Response:
Yes, but a woman aborting her pregnancy is not necessarily murder, especially when it is terminated early. It's simply your opinion and opinions are like heads, everyone has one. Your sentiments and personal appraisal of the value of zygotes, embryos and undeveloped fetuses is just that, your personal feelings and appraisal. You have no right to impose your opinions on the definition of human life on pregnant women and what is in their wombs. That's their pregnancy and bodies, not yours. They have sovereignty over their reproductive system and life, their wombs, and their bodies. You have no right to force a woman to remain pregnant and carry the life in their womb to term. Your opinion about that life in the womb being a human being and not just a potential human being is just your personal opinion. Supposedly you're a champion of liberty and personal freedom, but you want to hold hostage or wombjack, women's reproductive systems and bodies.
I and others would take your opinion more seriously if you were more concerned for actual human beings and not just for zygotes, embryos, and undeveloped fetuses. As a GOP conservative your politics and record is dismal when it comes to defending human rights. The rights of actual human beings. Right now Republican conservatives like you are supporting the economic sanctions on Afghanistan, that are resulting in the death of children. This is the politics that you support:
Stop sanctioning the people of Afghanistan and freezing their assets abroad. Billions of dollars of Afghan money, and gold, were frozen in Europe due to Washington's demands. You don't care, you will justify and defend the foreign policy of the United States government ("my country right or wrong"), yet pretend to be "pro-life". You're not pro-life, you're pro-death.
Do you care about those children? No, you don't, you're going to defend American foreign policy, regardless of how homicidal and destructive it is. You don't care about those children. You care about zygotes, embryos, and fetuses, that's what you care about. The complete hypocrisy of American "pro-life" conservativism. Oh you're so so concerned about life in the womb, oh you're so "pro-life", wow, you're so "pro-life", yeah OK. Sure.
You wrote:
You are also painting with an extremely broad brush. Your stance is that basically everyone who is pro life is anti single mother and wants nothing to do with them once the baby is born. And using that line of thinking you are trying to justify the killing of these children based on the potential suffering or hardship they and or their mothers might have to endure. Even if your premise is true that all prolife people are anti single mother (which is complete and utter BS) it hardly justifies your solution.
Response:
Your pro-life stance is BS. You talk about helping poor single mothers, but you conservatives don't provide the assistance they need. Sorry, the food pantry in your Pentecostal church is not enough. Your catholic charity organization is not enough. There are tens of thousands of Americans right now dying of cancer, begging for charity at GoFundMe.Com, and most of them unfortunately aren't going to get the help that they need. Private run charities are simply not enough.
My mother's husband, my step-father, about ten years ago when he was in his 50s, and not eligible for Medicare benefits, had to become dirt poor and file for bankruptcy to qualify for SSD and Medicaid. His body, out of the blue, just stopped producing cortisol and he was dying. It was a problem with one of his glands, I forgot the name of it. He couldn't afford the deductibles and co-payments of his private insurance company (I believe it was "United Health") and they were constantly refusing to cover certain medical services that he needed, so he, a CNC machinist and programmer, earning a very good salary, was forced to leave his job of over twenty years, and go bankrupt, in order to qualify for SSD and Medicaid. Private charities are not enough, we need a good government that will handle these types of emergencies. Your hatred of government isn't Biblical or rational.
You are supposedly "pro-life" yet against government social services, always doing everything possible to defund them, claiming that private charities are enough and ironically, that results in more death. You're not pro-life, you're pro-me-myself and I. You're pro-dog eat dog world, you're pro Darwinian "survival of the fittest", you're pro-embryos and fetuses, you're pro sanctioning countries and starving pregnant mothers and their fetuses, you're pro forcing women to remain pregnant, and pro ruining the lives of people in other countries with economic sanctions and wars, but supposedly you're "PRO-LIFE". No, you're not, you're PRO-DEATH.
off topic
off topic
does not address the question asked
zygote, embryo, undeveloped fetus, communist all fall into the same category for me
and your claim was that capitalism was providing for these services and not communism
lol...yeah, when ya put it like that it makes no sense at all
You spent a ton of time typing up responses to things I didnt say. I've never said we as a society shouldnt support people who are in need. I've never said we shouldnt help single mothers. I've never said any of that shit. I said you cant use a person's stance on one issue to frame their stance on the other. That not supporting those things doesnt justify allowing the killing of an unborn child.
An unborn child is a human life, and abortion kills that human life. Nothing you've said in this entire thread has moved anyone who believes that off of it. Mostly because you dont have a good argument against it. All the other stuff is just bullshit if you believe that we are killing a person via abortion.
and I wished wish you and communism many many more of those type victories and for some reason that is when you seemed to have lost it.If you read the post that I was responding to, you'll see that the person was talking about how capitalism or America had beaten socialism and the communists. That's why I mentioned Korea and Vietnam. Two wars where America, the supposed destroyer of socialism, lost.
do you have a problem with your own topic?Again, you can deny that all you want if it makes you feel better. Not only did the United States lose Korea and Vietnam, but Afghanistan as well. Sure, the capitalist ruling class of America won, by cashing in with all of those defense contracts.etc, but the American people and working-class lost. The Taliban are now back in power. So trillions of dollars were spent, that could've been used to build our nation's infrastructure, eliminate homelessness, and provide better services to our elderly and our veterans. Provide healthcare, and education to our people, but NO all of that money was poured into the pockets of billionaires.
So is this still me not making any sense or you? what happened to "get back on topic"?...btw, the higher the literacy the lower the word count.Right? You wrote that "Socialists have lost every encounter with America", and that's simply not true. That's why Korea (an armistice) and Vietnam (a loss) were mentioned, in response to your silly, incorrect remark. Anyways, why even use this argument against socialism? Did capitalism replace chattel slavery and feudalism overnight? Did the merchants and capitalists become more powerful than the kings and nobles in a few years? No, it literally took centuries. So back then someone could've said "you capitalists are getting your butts kicked by the nobles, they're the ones in charge now and it will always be that way". Really? It's just bad reasoning. Study economics and where technology is leading us, and if you're honest you'll admit that socialism and communism is the future, not the past. The next step in human production is socialism (the socialization and democratization of production) and later after that it will inevitably be high-communism (a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money).
Because it's a human, and a separate entity from it's mother. It has it's own unique DNA, a sequence that has never been seen before and if it's destroyed will never be seen again. There's really no way around those facts.On what grounds do you believe that a zygote, embryo, or fetus is a human being and person, with the same rights as a woman? And again, my point which you ignore, is that your concern for life in the womb is hypocritical because your politics hurt life outside of the womb. So learn to prioritize. Life outside of the womb should be your focus not fetuses in other people's bodies.
The verbal white flagYeah, you're senseless and deluded.
the debate isn't over what caused it, but who caused it, all you did with this post was try and claim that you had a good reason to take it off topicRight? You wrote that "Socialists have lost every encounter with America", and that's simply not true. That's why Korea (an armistice) and Vietnam (a loss) were mentioned, in response to your silly, incorrect remark.
that's the question you need to answer since it was/is you that is making the claim against socialism [and though I tend to think you are correct] I made it against communismAnyways, why even use this argument against socialism?
and I wished wish you and communism many many more of those type victories and for some reason that is when you seemed to have lost it.
do you have a problem with your own topic?
the debate isn't over what caused it, but who caused it, all you did with this post was try and claim that you had a good reason to take it off topic
that's the question you need to answer since it was/is you that is making the claim against socialism [and though I tend to think you are correct] I made it against communism
Are you talking in South America? That's your "socialism is winning" model?Yeah victory is when socialism remains en route to high-communism and the empire leaves. The French and Americans left defeated because socialism took over and in the future, there will be other fights and many communists will die, but nonetheless, we will win. Right now socialism is growing faster than ever in the so-called "global south" and here in the "1st world", everywhere. The right-wing conspiracy theorists are correct, socialism is coming with a vengeance and it will take over capitalism within a few decades now, if not sooner. I'm 49 and I might live to see it, but if I don't my children and grandchildren will.
Because it's a human, and a separate entity from it's mother. It has it's own unique DNA, a sequence that has never been seen before and if it's destroyed will never be seen again. There's really no way around those facts.
And again you dont know what my stances on any of those issues is because I havent stated them in this thread. STOP inserting YOUR belief of what every pro life person believes into this debate. But that said it's irrelevant because you cant use a lack of support for welfare as a justification to kill a human being.
Hard to set the bar any lower than thatYeah victory is when socialism remains en route to high-communism and the empire leaves.
yeesh!..liberals are the same all over, everything is bassackwards... socialism took over because we left, not the other way aroundThe French and Americans left defeated because socialism took over
of course, what else would you call it but a winand in the future, there will be other fights and many communists will die, but nonetheless, we will win.
do you even remember the topic? or that you were the OP?Right now socialism is growing faster than ever in the so-called "global south" and here in the "1st world", everywhere. The right-wing conspiracy theorists are correct, socialism is coming with a vengeance and it will take over capitalism within a few decades now, if not sooner. I'm 49 and I might live to see it, but if I don't my children and grandchildren will.
So frozen zygotes being held now in laboratories around the world with new human DNA are supposed, actual people, being held hostage by scientists. Amazing. Just because human life has a new sequence of DNA, doesn't by default make that human life a person or human being with all of the same rights and needs as a woman. A human person is a lot more than a mere zygote, embryo or even fetus.
And yes, the lack of support for welfare, government assistance, whatever you want to call it, renders your concern for life in the womb hypocritical. You're supposedly pro-life, but then defunding social programs that preserve life and avoid unnecessary suffering and death of actual human beings.
So frozen zygotes being held now in laboratories around the world with new human DNA are supposed, actual people, being held hostage by scientists. Amazing. Just because human life has a new sequence of DNA, doesn't by default make that human life a person or human being with all of the same rights and needs as a woman. A human person is a lot more than a mere zygote, embryo or even fetus.
And yes, the lack of support for welfare, government assistance, whatever you want to call it, renders your concern for life in the womb hypocritical. You're supposedly pro-life, but then defunding social programs that preserve life and avoid unnecessary suffering and death of actual human beings.
Unable to argue your position with reasonable, rational arguments and evidence so you resort to trying to get my thread banned. Nice try, hey who knows maybe you'll get your way?Wow. I like that flame bait titles are now ok in ZONE ONE. I hope this relaxation extends to all people.
Anyway, I've heard that argument made before. It's dumb.
AND, might I add, seeing a commie pretend to care about life, after the history of commie genocide and oppression?
Very funny.
Mmm, that could be an excellent stand up routine.
