Ron Paul Was Right, and Now Newt Gingrich is Right...

[007]

We've been in Germany for 70 years.

I think having a functioning, friendly Germany is a plus.

Germany was trying to take over the WORLD, and we bombed them into oblivion.

Is Afghanistan trying to take over the world? Should we bomb the entry country into oblivion?

Explain EXACTLY, what the hell we're doing there and what our exit strategy is. If this is a WAR, then why aren't we fighting like we want to WIN IT?

Otherwise, we're simply there wasting lives and money playing patty cake with a bunch of stone age sons a bitches that no matter how long were there, they're not going to change. Not now, not ever.

Germany had no delusions of trying to take over the world, idiot.

But anybody that knows anything about the disease known as 'Islam' knows that it is their sworn duty to turn the World into an Islamic Caliphate and impose Sharia Law on it. They say it all the time. They write about it, they make videos about it.

You're just too stupid to know about it

Isn't there a 'Kiddy Board' you can go to?

OK, since you set the tone, ya nasty little scabbed assed bitch... you're going to try and tell me that Hitler didn't have his sights set on world domination? How fucking STUPID do you think people here are? Exactly what grade is it you DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL ya dumbass mother fucking WAR MONGER?

No wonder you think this endless, pointless pit of money and human life in the middle east is a GOOD IDEA. On WHAT fucking MORAL AUTHORITY are we there? To spread DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM... show me where any of those sand apes ASKED us to do that? Then show me where in the CONSTITUTION it gives us the AUTHORITY to INVADE a sovereign nation and OCCUPY it and ENGAGE IN NATION BUILDING?

I WONT' hold my breath for ANY proof of ANY of what I asked for, since I ALREADY know it DOESN'T EXIST. Now go pound sand ya ignorant fucking jack off. Maybe look into finding a course you can study to get your GED, dumbass fucking butt bitch, fuck off.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

the problem is that we learned nothing from the 58,000 americans who died for nothing in viet nam, plus the thousands more who lost limbs, sight, brain function, etc.

Sadly, we are still sending our kids off to be blown up in iraq and afghanistan and the result will be the same as viet nam---we will have accomplished nothing.

Will we never learn that we cannot police the world and convert the entire world to our way of living? apparently not. and this is a failure of both parties.

Try to get this your thick skulls.... All of you.

The time for arguing about whether we should have gone into ANY place has long passed.

If we were to face another "Iraq" or "Afghanistan" you might find that I don't believe in sending in Conventional Troops most of the time myself.

Most of the time, they're just 'targets' anyway.

What I'm arguing is that two wrongs don't make a right.

We have an obligation that WE created.

Whether we should have gone into these places is good only for mental masturbation.

Which this Board excels at.

My concern is for the here and now, not for the 'what ifs'.

I don't believe we should leave those people unprotected.

If you want to bring them here, to America. Fine. If you want to establish a Home Land for them and protect them, that's fine.

If you want to leave troops there to protect, that's okay too.

But what too many here are saying is, "Fuck 'em. Let them all die. I couldn't care less."

And yes, you ARE saying that.

And you disgust me.

Yes, people. Don't you realize that not wanting to shoot or bomb people means you want to let them die!?

 

[Edgetho]

Acid attacks, poison: What Afghan girls risk by going to school - CNN.com

Deh'Subz, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Terrorists will stop at nothing to keep Afghan girls from receiving an education.
"People are crazy," said Razia Jan, founder of a girls' school outside Kabul. "The day we opened the school, (on) the other side of town, they threw hand grenades in a girls' school, and 100 girls were killed.
"Every day, you hear that somebody's thrown acid at a girl's face ... or they poison their water."

Afghan girls maimed by acid vow to go to school - CNN.com

Official: 160 girls poisoned at Afghan school - CNN.com

"It is heartbreaking to see the way these terrorists treat ... women," said Jan, 68. "In their eyes, a women is an object that they can control. They are scared that when these girls get an education, they will become aware of their rights as women and as a human being."

Afghanistan Girls' School Feared Poisoned By Gas

Afghan Girls, Scarred by Acid, Defy Terror, Embracing School

Shamsia Husseini, right, was among 15 girls and women in Kandahar, Afghanistan, who were splashed with acid in November

Real Men would be chomping at the bit to protect little girls being brutalized by terrorist scum.

Instead, we have cowards hiding behind some bullshit excuse to run away and hide.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand something that is a Foreign Concept to you....

Honor...

And the courage to defend those who can't defend themselves

Now go back to thinking you matter.

You never have and you never will

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

America?s Undeclared War on Pakistan: Fresh Evidence of CIA Drone Strikes on Rescuers | Global Research

Afghan president: US soldier kills 16 civilians

Drone strikes kill, maim and traumatize too many civilians, U.S. study says - CNN.com

Good thing the U.S. is there to protect them though.

 

[007]

Now go back to thinking you matter.

You never have and you never will

You didn't show us where in the constitution it gives us authority to invade, occupy and engage in nation building in a sovereign nation, especially a nation that did not request us to be there in the first place.

Then maybe you explain to all the parents the justification of why their sons and daughters have been killed or are missing arms and legs. Tell them exactly what that was for.

Then finally maybe you can explain why that after 12 years of this madness, we're no closer to any sort of change or an end to the madness that we were when it started. Tell us also why we need to keep flushing trillions of dollars down this never ending toilet.

You either love to see American soldiers die and/or maimed for no good reason, or you just love war, or both. Tell you what, YOU go over there and get an arm or leg blown off or die if you think that crap is worth it.

 

[Mac1958]

Now go back to thinking you matter.

You never have and you never will

You didn't show us where in the constitution it gives us authority to invade, occupy and engage in nation building in a sovereign nation, especially a nation that did not request us to be there in the first place.

Then maybe you explain to all the parents the justification of why their sons and daughters have been killed or are missing arms and legs. Tell them exactly what that was for.

Then finally maybe you can explain why that after 12 years of this madness, we're no closer to any sort of change or an end to the madness that we were when it started. Tell us also why we need to keep flushing trillions of dollars down this never ending toilet.

You either love to see American soldiers die and/or maimed for no good reason, or you just love war, or both. Tell you what, YOU go over there and get an arm or leg blown off or die if you think that crap is worth it.

Oh yeah, it's in the Constitution, where it says "America is exceptional and doesn't have to play by normal rules, so we can waltz right in and blow the living shit out of any part of the globe that happens to be scaring us at any point in time, spending massive amounts of money that we don't have and destroying the lives of thousands of young American families in the process. Unless, of course, that country can actually fight back, in which case we snarl at them and borrow money from them."

It's in there, you'll find it.

.

 

[eflatminor]

I wonder if anyone before Ron Paul thought to point out the insanity of meddling in overseas conflicts???

Why yes, someone did.

"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." - John Quincy Adams

 

[FA_Q2]

@eflat, Kevin et al
I would have to disagree somewhat. We have established that (at least I think we have) we should have never started this thing BUT I do not think you can simply walk out after you have already started. I agree that we do not want to simply fail over and over again for another decade but we continue to fail not because we need to withdraw completely but because we refuse to acknowledge that our original end game simply needs to be changed. We do need to leave BUT we need to leave something in place where we left. We DID destroy the government and the area and now that we have done so we need to set something back up before we leave. That might not be a democracy and I think that is where we are failing so hard. Rather than set the people there back up to take care of their own business, we are trying to insert a government that is like ours and sympathetic to our causes. That is contrary to what we stand for in the first place (self-governance) and I believe that when we are done with whatever we went there to accomplish we should withdraw while allowing the people to reestablish some sense of control.

That does not mean that we continue on for another decade but that does mean we should do more than simply beat feet. That really is the embodiment of responsibility – in this case the responsibility of our government to deal with problems that it creates.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

@eflat, Kevin et al
I would have to disagree somewhat. We have established that (at least I think we have) we should have never started this thing BUT I do not think you can simply walk out after you have already started. I agree that we do not want to simply fail over and over again for another decade but we continue to fail not because we need to withdraw completely but because we refuse to acknowledge that our original end game simply needs to be changed. We do need to leave BUT we need to leave something in place where we left. We DID destroy the government and the area and now that we have done so we need to set something back up before we leave. That might not be a democracy and I think that is where we are failing so hard. Rather than set the people there back up to take care of their own business, we are trying to insert a government that is like ours and sympathetic to our causes. That is contrary to what we stand for in the first place (self-governance) and I believe that when we are done with whatever we went there to accomplish we should withdraw while allowing the people to reestablish some sense of control.

That does not mean that we continue on for another decade but that does mean we should do more than simply beat feet. That really is the embodiment of responsibility – in this case the responsibility of our government to deal with problems that it creates.

Except that any government the U.S. establishes is going to be opposed for one reason or another. Whether democracy or dictatorship any government sanctioned by the U.S. is going to be seen as a puppet, and is going to cause even more resentment. We need to accept that the U.S. can't fix the mess it created, and that the best thing to do now is leave. That may not seem like a good option, but it is the best option.

 

[FA_Q2]

@eflat, Kevin et al
I would have to disagree somewhat. We have established that (at least I think we have) we should have never started this thing BUT I do not think you can simply walk out after you have already started. I agree that we do not want to simply fail over and over again for another decade but we continue to fail not because we need to withdraw completely but because we refuse to acknowledge that our original end game simply needs to be changed. We do need to leave BUT we need to leave something in place where we left. We DID destroy the government and the area and now that we have done so we need to set something back up before we leave. That might not be a democracy and I think that is where we are failing so hard. Rather than set the people there back up to take care of their own business, we are trying to insert a government that is like ours and sympathetic to our causes. That is contrary to what we stand for in the first place (self-governance) and I believe that when we are done with whatever we went there to accomplish we should withdraw while allowing the people to reestablish some sense of control.

That does not mean that we continue on for another decade but that does mean we should do more than simply beat feet. That really is the embodiment of responsibility – in this case the responsibility of our government to deal with problems that it creates.

Except that any government the U.S. establishes is going to be opposed for one reason or another. Whether democracy or dictatorship any government sanctioned by the U.S. is going to be seen as a puppet, and is going to cause even more resentment. We need to accept that the U.S. can't fix the mess it created, and that the best thing to do now is leave. That may not seem like a good option, but it is the best option.

The US should not be the one establishing it though – just trying to leave without a complete power vacuum. They do not need to establish or even back the government that takes its place but they certainly can allow the process itself to happen.

The people might still tear it down after anyway but then again, at that point it is there problem. The problem I have is that you simply do not go into a nation and destroy the entire infrastructure and then say fuck it, were out of here. At the very least you can ensure some of that infrastructure goes back and there is some sort of process to reestablish a form of government – even if it is regional.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

@eflat, Kevin et al
I would have to disagree somewhat. We have established that (at least I think we have) we should have never started this thing BUT I do not think you can simply walk out after you have already started. I agree that we do not want to simply fail over and over again for another decade but we continue to fail not because we need to withdraw completely but because we refuse to acknowledge that our original end game simply needs to be changed. We do need to leave BUT we need to leave something in place where we left. We DID destroy the government and the area and now that we have done so we need to set something back up before we leave. That might not be a democracy and I think that is where we are failing so hard. Rather than set the people there back up to take care of their own business, we are trying to insert a government that is like ours and sympathetic to our causes. That is contrary to what we stand for in the first place (self-governance) and I believe that when we are done with whatever we went there to accomplish we should withdraw while allowing the people to reestablish some sense of control.

That does not mean that we continue on for another decade but that does mean we should do more than simply beat feet. That really is the embodiment of responsibility – in this case the responsibility of our government to deal with problems that it creates.

Except that any government the U.S. establishes is going to be opposed for one reason or another. Whether democracy or dictatorship any government sanctioned by the U.S. is going to be seen as a puppet, and is going to cause even more resentment. We need to accept that the U.S. can't fix the mess it created, and that the best thing to do now is leave. That may not seem like a good option, but it is the best option.

The US should not be the one establishing it though – just trying to leave without a complete power vacuum. They do not need to establish or even back the government that takes its place but they certainly can allow the process itself to happen.

The people might still tear it down after anyway but then again, at that point it is there problem. The problem I have is that you simply do not go into a nation and destroy the entire infrastructure and then say fuck it, were out of here. At the very least you can ensure some of that infrastructure goes back and there is some sort of process to reestablish a form of government – even if it is regional.

It never works out that way though, does it? it's like suggesting social security reform or any other host of bad legislative ideas that always need to be fixed. It's never talked about to end them, always the fix that never occurs.

We've made a much bigger mess than we started with and it's only getting worse. it's time to humbly apologize, remove all of our assets and people from the area and let the cards fall where they may. And yes, this too will come with some type of blowbacvk. Should have minded our own business to start with.

 

[FA_Q2]

Except that any government the U.S. establishes is going to be opposed for one reason or another. Whether democracy or dictatorship any government sanctioned by the U.S. is going to be seen as a puppet, and is going to cause even more resentment. We need to accept that the U.S. can't fix the mess it created, and that the best thing to do now is leave. That may not seem like a good option, but it is the best option.

The US should not be the one establishing it though – just trying to leave without a complete power vacuum. They do not need to establish or even back the government that takes its place but they certainly can allow the process itself to happen.

The people might still tear it down after anyway but then again, at that point it is there problem. The problem I have is that you simply do not go into a nation and destroy the entire infrastructure and then say fuck it, were out of here. At the very least you can ensure some of that infrastructure goes back and there is some sort of process to reestablish a form of government – even if it is regional.

It never works out that way though, does it? it's like suggesting social security reform or any other host of bad legislative ideas that always need to be fixed. It's never talked about to end them, always the fix that never occurs.

We've made a much bigger mess than we started with and it's only getting worse. it's time to humbly apologize, remove all of our assets and people from the area and let the cards fall where they may. And yes, this too will come with some type of blowbacvk. Should have minded our own business to start with.

Now that I can agree with. It never works that way though because we seem to have the need to dictate to others what they are going to do. I think we could have done better but I know that we never will because we simply refuse to. Too often we go into a place and try to FORCE our way of governance and life onto them because we perceive it as better than theirs. In many ways we can measure it as better too. Human rights and the treatment of women for example tend to be horrendous. What we don’t seem to understand though is that people do not want what we have. You cannot make the horse drink so to speak so no matter how much better we think we have it; they are not going to take it.

As you said, we should have minded our own damn business to begin with. The problem though is that we did not and now have to deal with the consequences.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

@eflat, Kevin et al
I would have to disagree somewhat. We have established that (at least I think we have) we should have never started this thing BUT I do not think you can simply walk out after you have already started. I agree that we do not want to simply fail over and over again for another decade but we continue to fail not because we need to withdraw completely but because we refuse to acknowledge that our original end game simply needs to be changed. We do need to leave BUT we need to leave something in place where we left. We DID destroy the government and the area and now that we have done so we need to set something back up before we leave. That might not be a democracy and I think that is where we are failing so hard. Rather than set the people there back up to take care of their own business, we are trying to insert a government that is like ours and sympathetic to our causes. That is contrary to what we stand for in the first place (self-governance) and I believe that when we are done with whatever we went there to accomplish we should withdraw while allowing the people to reestablish some sense of control.

That does not mean that we continue on for another decade but that does mean we should do more than simply beat feet. That really is the embodiment of responsibility – in this case the responsibility of our government to deal with problems that it creates.

Except that any government the U.S. establishes is going to be opposed for one reason or another. Whether democracy or dictatorship any government sanctioned by the U.S. is going to be seen as a puppet, and is going to cause even more resentment. We need to accept that the U.S. can't fix the mess it created, and that the best thing to do now is leave. That may not seem like a good option, but it is the best option.

The US should not be the one establishing it though – just trying to leave without a complete power vacuum. They do not need to establish or even back the government that takes its place but they certainly can allow the process itself to happen.

The people might still tear it down after anyway but then again, at that point it is there problem. The problem I have is that you simply do not go into a nation and destroy the entire infrastructure and then say fuck it, were out of here. At the very least you can ensure some of that infrastructure goes back and there is some sort of process to reestablish a form of government – even if it is regional.

Sounds like you're trying to have it both ways. You say the U.S. doesn't have to be involved, but that you want the U.S. to facilitate it. I don't understand.

 

[Putt4eagle]

Our policies in the middle east of intervention, occupying and nation building have been nothing more than a monumental disaster in the form of wasted money, time and resources, and human life and limb. We need to get the hell out of these countries and let them fight to their hearts desire. Let them kill each other off by the hundreds of thousands as they see fit, or let China or some other country go in there and try their hand at sticking their nose in where it just does not belong. Next time some country or the UN starts bitching about ethnic cleansing or or some other form of genocide, let THEM be the ones to go in there and do something about it. It's been 12 years since that moron Bush went into Iraq and deposed Sadam Hussein, and it's been an absolute nightmare in the middle east ever since. We need to get out of the middle east, we need to get out of all these places. It's none of our business to be intervening, occupying or nation building. That is NOT what this country is about, it is NOT in our constitution, and you can top that off with WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!



‘NEOCONSERVATIVE’ NEWT: EXPORTING U.S. DEMOCRACY TO MIDDLE EAST DIDN’T WORK, LET’S LISTEN TO RAND PAUL AND TED CRUZ INSTEAD

?Neoconservative? Newt: Exporting U.S. Democracy to Middle East Didn?t Work, Let?s Listen to Rand Paul and Ted Cruz Instead | TheBlaze.com

You can walk away from the middle east when you have an energy independence policy that doesn't include solar panels on the roof of your car.