RWs, how do we fix our shitty healthcare system?

[healthmyths]

THEY know, they know. Nobody else does.

They get lots of info from the hospitals and Big Pharm with ACA. Next they can use it for regulation.

YOU SAID a mouthful.. "use it for regulation"!

Did you ever think that there may be too much regulation???
-- The International Classification of Diseases version 10 (ICD-10) contains 141,060 code sets used to report medical diagnoses and inpatient procedures.
That’s a 712 percent increase over the 19,817 code sets in the currently used ICD-9 version.
--- As we have noted before, physicians are already spending 22 percent of their time interacting with insurers on formularies, claims, billing, credentialing,
pre-authorizations, and quality measure data. The workload can only increase with the new codes.
Healthcare Is Turning Into An Industry Focused On Compliance, Regulation Rather Than Patient Care

How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
More than 18 months in the making, the report identified six major areas of waste:
unnecessary services ($210 billion annually);
inefficient delivery of care ($130 billion);
excess administrative costs ($190 billion);
inflated prices ($105 billion);
prevention failures ($55 billion), and
fraud ($75 billion).
Adjusting for some overlap among the categories, the panel settled on an estimate of $750 billion.

Your post seems to be a general rant about healthcare.
FYI, ICD codes have nothing to do with government regulations. ICD (International Classification of Disease) listing assigns a code to essentially every know disease and all medically recognized treatments. Without ICD codes, computerized claim processing and billing would be virtually impossible. The ICD as we know it has been around for over a 150 years.

Most of what we call waste in the healthcare industry is unavoidable in American healthcare because there is no way of determine the full cost of diagnosis and treatment or whether it will be successful until after the services have been rendered. Furthermore, it's the people that are selling the service who actually determine the need for service. Pre-authorization is usually just a formality that delays the rendering of the service. The problem is fee for service which encourages waste and over-utilization.

So you have NO problem with what doctors have told us are over $850 billion a year in duplicate testing, referrals, all out of fear of lawsuits? You think they made that up?

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the
1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were they? Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Tort reform!

I have a problem with the study. In a 2014 study led by the Cleveland Clinic and published in JAMA Internal Medicine, fives years after the Jackson Healthcare study researchers asked a few dozen physicians in three hospital medicine services to estimate the defensiveness of their own orders.
Fully 28% of 4,200-plus orders were reported by physicians as being at least partially defensive, but only 2.9% were seen as completely defensive in nature. The Cleveland Clinic study cited a national cost estimate of $46 billion related to defensive medicine, not $850 billion dollars. Also when doctors were asked would tort reform result in a significant decrease in healthcare cost, 80% said no.

Rarely is defensive medicine the sole reason why a doctor orders more than required number of tests. When doctors where asked, they cited requests by the patient, age of the previous test, not trusting the test, unable to locate the test, and fear legal action. When doctors were asked would they still practice defensive medicine after tort reform, 72% of the doctors said yes. The reason being doctors do not want to go to court regardless of the amount of the lawsuit.

The defensive medicine balancing act
Cost of Defensive Medicine

YOU didn't read the study did you? You wrote: "asked a few dozen physicians in three hospital medicine services"
FEW DOZEN???
See right there I have a lot of doubt in your understanding!
Page 19 and 20 shows you are really really WRONG!

More than 3,000 physicians spanning all states and medical specialties completed the survey, a 2.21 percent response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/-1.15 percent.

JUST a little more then a few dozens!!!

Also... what the hell difference is "completely or partially defensive"? Idiot! Either one is still a waste!
And they do cite "fear legal action".... AND YES they know the claims are paid by the insurance companies BECAUSE no one wants to waste time in court!
Less then 6% of Medical lawsuits go to court! The rest you idiot are settled out of court OR worse the insurance companies PAY!!!

Finally you cited " The Cleveland Clinic study cited a national cost estimate of $46 billion related to defensive medicine, but noted that such costs have been measured only indirectly. Other studies, along with the American Medical Association, put the cost impact much higher."

Study after study concludes "more then a half dozen physicians" "defensive Medicine " is practiced by almost ALL PHYSICIANS!

Virtually all respondents (93%) reported that they sometimes or often engaged in at least 1 of the 6 forms of defensive medicine outlined in the survey, and 82% of those who reported practicing defensively (626/768) detailed their most recent defensive act. Many of the respondents to the survey also reported that they had restricted the scope of their clinical practice because of liability concerns (42%) and/or were likely to do so further in the next 2 years (49%).
Defensive Medicine Among High-Risk Specialist Physicians in a Volatile Malpractice Environment

Gallup Survey Methodology: Cost of Defensive Medicine

Between December 2009 and January 2010, Gallup conducted telephone interviews with 462 randomly selected practicing physicians from across the U.S.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Cost of Defensive Medicine

In December 2009, Jackson Healthcare invited 138,686 physicians to participate in a confidential online survey in an effort to quantify the costs and impact of defensive medicine. More than 3,000 physicians spanning all states and medical specialties completed the survey, a 2.21 percent response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/-1.15 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Impacts Beyond Costs

In March 2010, Jackson Healthcare invited 124,572 physicians to participate in a confidential online survey in an effort to quantify the costs and impact of defensive medicine. More than 1,400 physicians spanning all states and medical specialties completed the survey, a 1.13 response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/- 1.7 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Obstetrician Views on C-Section Rate

In June 2010, Jackson Healthcare invited 8,669 obstetricians to participate in a confidential online survey in an effort to qualify reasons for the increasing C-section rate in the U.S. More than 700 physicians completed the survey, an 0.8 percent response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/-2.4 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Federally Contracted Physicians

Jackson Healthcare conducted a web-based survey of 347 physicians. The survey has an error range of +/- 3.42 percent, at the 95 percent confidence level.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: International Physicians

Jackson Healthcare retained Survey Pacific to complete telephone surveys of physicians in four countries. Results are based on telephone interviews with 200 randomly selected physicians in each country.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Tort Reform Efforts

Jackson Healthcare conducted an online survey from August 31, 2012 to October 31, 2012. Respondents were self-selected with 1,548 respondents completing the survey. The error range for this survey at the 95 percent confidence level is +/- 2.5 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Hospital Executives

A total of 106 hospital executives completed the Jackson survey between February 7 and March 25, 2014. To qualify, participants answered that they believe some physicians practice defensive medicine. The error range for the survey was +/-9.5 percent at the 95 percent confidence level.

pg 20

 

[healthmyths]

And how, in anyway, would that lower the cost of medical services like prescriptions?

competition, dingworthy. When companies compete, prices go down. When insurance companies compete across state lines, prices will go down.

The other thing that would help drug prices would be to reduce the length of patents, get generics in the market sooner.

More competition would help to a small degree, but there is no way that would be enough. In fact there's evidence that competing across state lines wouldn't do anything at all. Our healthcare system is a business like any other. Where is the incentive for them to lower the cost of premiums, prescriptions, and deductibles dramatically when they are making 10s of billions in profit every year from it? These prices have not stopped increasing for decades.

Aw, the rich capitalists are making money. Do you know what profit rate health insurance companies make? Google it, its not what you think.

Now, the drug companies, that's a completely different story. Big pharma is raping us and using some of the profits to bribe congresspersons to leave them alone.

competition would bring drug prices down, why do they need a 16 year patent on a new drug? Why are they selling you Cialis for $42/pill? answer: because they can.

Yeah because they can. That is the problem with our healthcare system. Patents aside, the same drug being sold in the US is being sold in Canada and Western Europe for a fraction of the cost.

part of the problem is the fear of litigation if someone takes a pill wrong, or the wrong pill or too much or, anything.
America has become a nation of idiots with lawyers.
Look at any product sold. a stove comes with a warning that the burners get hot, why? because if some retard puts his hand on the hot burner, and gets burned, if there was no warning the manufacturer gets sued for negligence.
Same with food processors, the bitch is chewing up a damn carrot, what would common sense tell you its going to do to your finger when you stick it in the rotating blades? another warning sign so they don't get sued.
Generally speaking, I tend to think Europeans are just a bit smarter, and if they do engage in some stupidity, their courts are going to laugh them right back out the door.

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the
1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were they? Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Tort reform!

TAX lawyers 10% of their $270 Billion and use that and pay the annual premium for the 4 million that truly need health insurance.
As a result if the $850 Billion defensive medicine claims goes down, the tax goes down! Simple as that!


More than 3,000 physicians spanning all states and medical specialties completed the survey, a 2.21 percent response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/-1.15 percent.

nd they do cite "fear legal action".... AND YES they know the claims are paid by the insurance companies BECAUSE no one wants to waste time in court!
Less then 6% of Medical lawsuits go to court! The rest you idiot are settled out of court OR worse the insurance companies PAY!!!


Virtually all respondents (93%) reported that they sometimes or often engaged in at least 1 of the 6 forms of defensive medicine outlined in the survey, and 82% of those who reported practicing defensively (626/768) detailed their most recent defensive act. Many of the respondents to the survey also reported that they had restricted the scope of their clinical practice because of liability concerns (42%) and/or were likely to do so further in the next 2 years (49%).
Defensive Medicine Among High-Risk Specialist Physicians in a Volatile Malpractice Environment

Gallup Survey Methodology: Cost of Defensive Medicine

Between December 2009 and January 2010, Gallup conducted telephone interviews with 462 randomly selected practicing physicians from across the U.S.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Cost of Defensive Medicine

In December 2009, Jackson Healthcare invited 138,686 physicians to participate in a confidential online survey in an effort to quantify the costs and impact of defensive medicine. More than 3,000 physicians spanning all states and medical specialties completed the survey, a 2.21 percent response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/-1.15 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Impacts Beyond Costs

In March 2010, Jackson Healthcare invited 124,572 physicians to participate in a confidential online survey in an effort to quantify the costs and impact of defensive medicine. More than 1,400 physicians spanning all states and medical specialties completed the survey, a 1.13 response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/- 1.7 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Obstetrician Views on C-Section Rate

In June 2010, Jackson Healthcare invited 8,669 obstetricians to participate in a confidential online survey in an effort to qualify reasons for the increasing C-section rate in the U.S. More than 700 physicians completed the survey, an 0.8 percent response rate. The survey error range is at the 95 percent confidence level: +/-2.4 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Federally Contracted Physicians

Jackson Healthcare conducted a web-based survey of 347 physicians. The survey has an error range of +/- 3.42 percent, at the 95 percent confidence level.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: International Physicians

Jackson Healthcare retained Survey Pacific to complete telephone surveys of physicians in four countries. Results are based on telephone interviews with 200 randomly selected physicians in each country.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Tort Reform Efforts

Jackson Healthcare conducted an online survey from August 31, 2012 to October 31, 2012. Respondents were self-selected with 1,548 respondents completing the survey. The error range for this survey at the 95 percent confidence level is +/- 2.5 percent.

Jackson Healthcare Survey Methodology: Hospital Executives

A total of 106 hospital executives completed the Jackson survey between February 7 and March 25, 2014. To qualify, participants answered that they believe some physicians practice defensive medicine. The error range for the survey was +/-9.5 percent at the 95 percent confidence level.

 

[forkup]

Competition would not be nearly enough to bring costs down. We are talking about 10s of billions of profit per year. Why would they give that up? They might lower their prices with more competition, but they would never dramatically reduce their prices which is what's needed. Hell if anything the completion would just keep prices from increasing further which again would mean shit for making healthcare affordable for poor people.

Absolutely untrue. Competition would do it, but I don't expect you to agree, because that would end your rant against the GOP. You asked the question, I have you the answer. You don't like the answer? Hey, I can't force you to learn anything.

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

No, you have those costs, your taxes pay for them.

No we don't. In all my life i haven't seen a single commercial for a healthcare company. Not on the radio,tv or newspaper.the job pharmecy tech doesn't exist here. We have pharmesists not pharmesist techs. A typical doctors office is just a doctor. No medical secretaries unless where talking about hospitals or doctors offices with 5 or 10 doctors or something. Like I said, theres alot of administrative and running costs you guys have that that we don't because health insurrances are both mandotory and state run.

 

[forkup]

Competition would not be nearly enough to bring costs down. We are talking about 10s of billions of profit per year. Why would they give that up? They might lower their prices with more competition, but they would never dramatically reduce their prices which is what's needed. Hell if anything the completion would just keep prices from increasing further which again would mean shit for making healthcare affordable for poor people.

Absolutely untrue. Competition would do it, but I don't expect you to agree, because that would end your rant against the GOP. You asked the question, I have you the answer. You don't like the answer? Hey, I can't force you to learn anything.

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

I think your best option is to move back where things are done better

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

 

[Redfish]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how would you go about doing that? There are 35 health insurance companies in the US that provide either directly or through subsidiaries, 99% of all private health insurance. In the 1980's and 90's the number of companies in the US were increasing but by the 2000, mergers and acquisitions began reducing the competition. In 2009, the industry seem to freeze mergers and acquisitions waiting to see the effects of Obamacare. However, the parts of law designed to increase competition has failed to do so. Now with the law fully implemented, the industry is pursuing mergers and acquisitions once again with a vengeance.

The federal government is prohibited by law from taking any action and therefore it is up to the state insurance commissions. The problem is state insurance commission are political and most of them are heavily influenced by companies doing business in their state and are not likely to take any action.

I'm always amazed really, how so many Americans believe that the free market is a cure for everything. In my opinion there are certain area's where 'for profit' shouldn't be applicable. Health and education being the best examples. Private companies have no business profiting from persons misfortune. Every penny a company takes in profit is a penny that excludes ppl from receiving care.

There hasn't been significant competition in the healthcare industry since we banned the sale of snake oil to cure disease. The industry is highly regulated by federal, state, and local government as well as associations such the AMA, ANA, American Hospital Association, and a number of other professional groups. Startup costs and licensing requirements in most segments of healthcare are very high which dampens competition. 82% of the our hospitals and nearly half our nursing homes are either non-profit or operated by a governmental body. Almost half of our doctors do not own their practice.

Clearly the healthcare industry is not and has not been a profit orientated industry. What's amazing is that conservatives over the last 10 years have touted free market completion in healthcare as a solution for the high cost healthcare.

are you crazy? Not a profit oriented industry????? Do you have any idea what profit rates big pharma is making at our expense? Look it up and then come back so you can post with some knowledge.

 

[Redfish]

Absolutely untrue. Competition would do it, but I don't expect you to agree, because that would end your rant against the GOP. You asked the question, I have you the answer. You don't like the answer? Hey, I can't force you to learn anything.

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

No, you have those costs, your taxes pay for them.

No we don't. In all my life i haven't seen a single commercial for a healthcare company. Not on the radio,tv or newspaper.the job pharmecy tech doesn't exist here. We have pharmesists not pharmesist techs. A typical doctors office is just a doctor. No medical secretaries unless where talking about hospitals or doctors offices with 5 or 10 doctors or something. Like I said, theres alot of administrative and running costs you guys have that that we don't because health insurrances are both mandotory and state run.

How many people live in Belgium? How many in the US? You have one big family of people who are all the same racially, culturally, and ethnically. We have 330 million consisting of all races, cultures, ethnicities, religions, etc.

your attempted comparison is not valid.

 

[PredFan]

Absolutely untrue. Competition would do it, but I don't expect you to agree, because that would end your rant against the GOP. You asked the question, I have you the answer. You don't like the answer? Hey, I can't force you to learn anything.

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

No, you have those costs, your taxes pay for them.

No we don't. In all my life i haven't seen a single commercial for a healthcare company. Not on the radio,tv or newspaper.the job pharmecy tech doesn't exist here. We have pharmesists not pharmesist techs. A typical doctors office is just a doctor. No medical secretaries unless where talking about hospitals or doctors offices with 5 or 10 doctors or something. Like I said, theres alot of administrative and running costs you guys have that that we don't because health insurrances are both mandotory and state run.

Yes you do, you pay it in taxes.

 

[healthmyths]

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

No, you have those costs, your taxes pay for them.

No we don't. In all my life i haven't seen a single commercial for a healthcare company. Not on the radio,tv or newspaper.the job pharmecy tech doesn't exist here. We have pharmesists not pharmesist techs. A typical doctors office is just a doctor. No medical secretaries unless where talking about hospitals or doctors offices with 5 or 10 doctors or something. Like I said, theres alot of administrative and running costs you guys have that that we don't because health insurrances are both mandotory and state run.

How many people live in Belgium? How many in the US? You have one big family of people who are all the same racially, culturally, and ethnically. We have 330 million consisting of all races, cultures, ethnicities, religions, etc.

your attempted comparison is not valid.

I AGREE with you...
Belgium From this source:The World Factbook
Population- 11,323,973 (July 2015 est.)
Ethnic Groups- Flemish 58%, Walloon 31%, mixed or other 11%

United States: The World Factbook
Population- 321,368,864 (July 2015 est.)
Ethnic Groups- white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%,
two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)

So Comparing a country that is 3.4% the size of the USA and ethnicity mix of the USA is a really big stretch!

 

[forkup]

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

No, you have those costs, your taxes pay for them.

No we don't. In all my life i haven't seen a single commercial for a healthcare company. Not on the radio,tv or newspaper.the job pharmecy tech doesn't exist here. We have pharmesists not pharmesist techs. A typical doctors office is just a doctor. No medical secretaries unless where talking about hospitals or doctors offices with 5 or 10 doctors or something. Like I said, theres alot of administrative and running costs you guys have that that we don't because health insurrances are both mandotory and state run.

How many people live in Belgium? How many in the US? You have one big family of people who are all the same racially, culturally, and ethnically. We have 330 million consisting of all races, cultures, ethnicities, religions, etc.

your attempted comparison is not valid.

so we are

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

No, you have those costs, your taxes pay for them.

No we don't. In all my life i haven't seen a single commercial for a healthcare company. Not on the radio,tv or newspaper.the job pharmecy tech doesn't exist here. We have pharmesists not pharmesist techs. A typical doctors office is just a doctor. No medical secretaries unless where talking about hospitals or doctors offices with 5 or 10 doctors or something. Like I said, theres alot of administrative and running costs you guys have that that we don't because health insurrances are both mandotory and state run.

How many people live in Belgium? How many in the US? You have one big family of people who are all the same racially, culturally, and ethnically. We have 330 million consisting of all races, cultures, ethnicities, religions, etc.

your attempted comparison is not valid.

I AGREE with you...
Belgium From this source:The World Factbook
Population- 11,323,973 (July 2015 est.)
Ethnic Groups- Flemish 58%, Walloon 31%, mixed or other 11%

United States: The World Factbook
Population- 321,368,864 (July 2015 est.)
Ethnic Groups- white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%,
two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)

So Comparing a country that is 3.4% the size of the USA and ethnicity mix of the USA is a really big stretch!

first of all calling us not diverse is a stretch. Mixed or other is how i read this the same as your black population. And its overwelmingly north African wich is further removed culturely as your black population is removed from yours. We have 3 different languages.The challenges we face with immigration are just as severe at the very least as yours. And altough our population is smaller, there are plenty of big European coutries wich have a very similar way of handling healthcare I know this is hard to accept for republicans and even alot of democratic voters. But socialised medicine have a proven track record in most of the industrialised nations. And if you want I can give you examples and comparisans in my immediate family of both its respective effectiveness and quality.

 

[Redfish]

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how, in anyway, would that lower the cost of medical services like prescriptions?

competition, dingworthy. When companies compete, prices go down. When insurance companies compete across state lines, prices will go down.

The other thing that would help drug prices would be to reduce the length of patents, get generics in the market sooner.

More competition would help to a small degree, but there is no way that would be enough. In fact there's evidence that competing across state lines wouldn't do anything at all. Our healthcare system is a business like any other. Where is the incentive for them to lower the cost of premiums, prescriptions, and deductibles dramatically when they are making 10s of billions in profit every year from it? These prices have not stopped increasing for decades.

Aw, the rich capitalists are making money. Do you know what profit rate health insurance companies make? Google it, its not what you think.

Now, the drug companies, that's a completely different story. Big pharma is raping us and using some of the profits to bribe congresspersons to leave them alone.

competition would bring drug prices down, why do they need a 16 year patent on a new drug? Why are they selling you Cialis for $42/pill? answer: because they can.

Yeah because they can. That is the problem with our healthcare system. Patents aside, the same drug being sold in the US is being sold in Canada and Western Europe for a fraction of the cost.

yes, that's true. Has obozocare fixed that problem? Duh, no.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Absolutely untrue. Competition would do it, but I don't expect you to agree, because that would end your rant against the GOP. You asked the question, I have you the answer. You don't like the answer? Hey, I can't force you to learn anything.

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

I think your best option is to move back where things are done better

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

 

[forkup]

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questening my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.

 

[forkup]

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

I think your best option is to move back where things are done better

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did I need to question anybody's right to reply nore be dismissive about ppl's opinion.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

I think your best option is to move back where things are done better

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

 

[forkup]

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

I think your best option is to move back where things are done better

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

 

[SmokeALib]

Deport all Dims to Mexico. That alone will fix 99.9999 percent of this country's problems.

 

[healthmyths]

I think your best option is to move back where things are done better

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

Belgium Health care

You have to pay for daily hospital care in Belgium,
while your health insurer should cover the costs of medical treatment you receive while you’re there. When you’re admitted to hospital you have to pay a guarantee and show your SIS card or eID. Fees vary. If you choose a shared room you pay a set fee for the room and treatment that will be almost completely reimbursed. If you choose a single room then you pay extra for the room and the doctor may also set his or her own fee for treatment. Ask in advance for a breakdown of extra charges.

You have to pay for prescription medicines when you collect them from the pharmacy,
minus the set percentage payable by the insurer. Some medications are reimbursed fully while others only up to 20 percent.
The Belgian healthcare system | Healthcare | Expatica Belgium

 

[francoHFW]

Can't save everyone and socializing it will give everyone poor healthcare. It's time for us to stop making poverty a viable option for people.

'I'm from Belgium my wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.'This is a repost predfan. So you can socialize it. We do it. It's basicly political will. I'm willing to compare both cost and quality with you.

No, you have those costs, your taxes pay for them.

No we don't. In all my life i haven't seen a single commercial for a healthcare company. Not on the radio,tv or newspaper.the job pharmecy tech doesn't exist here. We have pharmesists not pharmesist techs. A typical doctors office is just a doctor. No medical secretaries unless where talking about hospitals or doctors offices with 5 or 10 doctors or something. Like I said, theres alot of administrative and running costs you guys have that that we don't because health insurrances are both mandotory and state run.

How many people live in Belgium? How many in the US? You have one big family of people who are all the same racially, culturally, and ethnically. We have 330 million consisting of all races, cultures, ethnicities, religions, etc.

your attempted comparison is not valid.

I AGREE with you...
Belgium From this source:The World Factbook
Population- 11,323,973 (July 2015 est.)
Ethnic Groups- Flemish 58%, Walloon 31%, mixed or other 11%

United States: The World Factbook
Population- 321,368,864 (July 2015 est.)
Ethnic Groups- white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%,
two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)

So Comparing a country that is 3.4% the size of the USA and ethnicity mix of the USA is a really big stretch!

People are people, racist dupes. The population argument is RW mooose muffins...

 

[forkup]

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

Belgium Health care

You have to pay for daily hospital care in Belgium,
while your health insurer should cover the costs of medical treatment you receive while you’re there. When you’re admitted to hospital you have to pay a guarantee and show your SIS card or eID. Fees vary. If you choose a shared room you pay a set fee for the room and treatment that will be almost completely reimbursed. If you choose a single room then you pay extra for the room and the doctor may also set his or her own fee for treatment. Ask in advance for a breakdown of extra charges.

You have to pay for prescription medicines when you collect them from the pharmacy,
minus the set percentage payable by the insurer. Some medications are reimbursed fully while others only up to 20 percent.
The Belgian healthcare system | Healthcare | Expatica Belgium

Ok a couple of things. I've never payed anything upfront in an hospital, the quote you showed is for expats, and not only that .My wife who is an expat didn't have to pay anything upfront when she gave birth to my child, not saying your lying but if it's the truth it has to be a recent change in the law. Hospital bills come after here. Your saying that when you guys have to go to the hospital no form of id is required? Of course fees vary, i clearly specified the type of surgeries and medicines. Now correct me if I'm wrong but some surgeries will be more expensive then others in your country and some medicines will be covered at different percentages right? The point is you can't argue with the costs per capita set I've given, wich is of course an average and I'm still waiting for somebody to give me an example of a service or an example of better efficiency in US healthcare. Now theres one circumstane I'll probably pick US healthcare over Belgian one. If I was a millionaire with some very complex ailment. Because I imagine that the top 1 percent of doctors in the US are better then the top 1 in mine. The difference is of course that the top 1 in mine is within the financiel reach of all citizens.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I think your best option is to move back where things are done better

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....