RWs, how do we fix our shitty healthcare system?

[forkup]

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.

10 Most Advanced Countries in Medicine - Insider Monkey

 

[forkup]

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.'Now theres one circumstane I'll probably pick US healthcare over Belgian one. If I was a millionaire with some very complex ailment. Because I imagine that the top 1 percent of doctors in the US are better then the top 1 in mine. The difference is of course that the top 1 in mine is within the financiel reach of all citizens.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.

10 Most Advanced Countries in Medicine - Insider Monkey

youre right. There's only one little problem the next 9 countries and probably the next after that all have socialised medical care.Invalidating youre point that only free enterprise is capable of delivering advanced experimental healthcare. Also in that list the us has the largest population wich naturally makes it easier to deliver more papers. And lastly I already said that US healthcare is very advanced what I was claiming that my healthcare system is more accessible,cheaper and more efficient for the average person.'Now theres one circumstane I'll probably pick US healthcare over Belgian one. If I was a millionaire with some very complex ailment. Because I imagine that the top 1 percent of doctors in the US are better then the top 1 in mine. The difference is of course that the top 1 in mine is within the financiel reach of all citizens.'

 

[Maryland Patriot]

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.'Now theres one circumstane I'll probably pick US healthcare over Belgian one. If I was a millionaire with some very complex ailment. Because I imagine that the top 1 percent of doctors in the US are better then the top 1 in mine. The difference is of course that the top 1 in mine is within the financiel reach of all citizens.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.

10 Most Advanced Countries in Medicine - Insider Monkey

youre right. There's only one little problem the next 9 countries and probably the next after that all have socialised medical care.Invalidating youre point that only free enterprise is capable of delivering advanced experimental healthcare. Also in that list the us has the largest population wich naturally makes it easier to deliver more papers. And lastly I already said that US healthcare is very advanced what I was claiming that my healthcare system is more accessible,cheaper and more efficient for the average person.'Now theres one circumstane I'll probably pick US healthcare over Belgian one. If I was a millionaire with some very complex ailment. Because I imagine that the top 1 percent of doctors in the US are better then the top 1 in mine. The difference is of course that the top 1 in mine is within the financiel reach of all citizens.'

I doubt that the top 1% in either country are any better than the other. This is not about the quality of your doctors, this is about the care.
as for your other question.
I pay 25 dollars if I go to the ER and am not admitted. 0 if I am admitted.
my prescriptions (on the spot) are 10 for name brand and 5 for generic.
If I go into the hospital to get my appendix out, my cost out of pocket is 0
I get a private room (that's all they have here) every time without paying out of pocket. ( again, you say you have not heard of this, so I will accept your word on that since you are actually there). I do not have a yearly out of pocket that has to be met. I simply show my insurance card to the hospital when they come around to check you in (after you are already being seen) and I never see any bill at all.
The wait times here have really grown over the last 10 years for the ER, we used to wait maybe an hour, now you need to pack a meal and maybe a change of clothes if you are walking in to the ER. The reason is that in this area all of the illegals use the ER for everything from a common cold to actual emergencies. It is slowing things down when they don't speak English.
I don't have healthcare costs added to my fuel prices, right now I pay 1.70 a gallon for diesel, you pay much more. I don't have a huge amount deducted in taxes from my pay to cover it.
I much prefer it the way the U.S did it before being destroyed by the great divider obama.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.

10 Most Advanced Countries in Medicine - Insider Monkey

youre right. There's only one little problem the next 9 countries and probably the next after that all have socialised medical care.Invalidating youre point that only free enterprise is capable of delivering advanced experimental healthcare. Also in that list the us has the largest population wich naturally makes it easier to deliver more papers. And lastly I already said that US healthcare is very advanced what I was claiming that my healthcare system is more accessible,cheaper and more efficient for the average person.

yes, for now perhaps, but take a look at the socialized services of a larger country like England where they have many growing problems....we too in America have growing financial problems due to Obamacare which is a bastardized stepson of socialized medicine.....

in Britain, Prime Minister David Cameron has introduced a bill seeking to partially privatize the National Health Service (NHS). Why? Because the British government is "hoping to avoid a Greek-style financial meltdown."

Why the UK Is Ditching Socialized Medicine

 

[Maryland Patriot]

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.

10 Most Advanced Countries in Medicine - Insider Monkey

youre right. There's only one little problem the next 9 countries and probably the next after that all have socialised medical care.Invalidating youre point that only free enterprise is capable of delivering advanced experimental healthcare. Also in that list the us has the largest population wich naturally makes it easier to deliver more papers. And lastly I already said that US healthcare is very advanced what I was claiming that my healthcare system is more accessible,cheaper and more efficient for the average person.

yes, for now perhaps, but take a look at the socialized services of a larger country like England where they have many growing problems....we too in America have growing financial problems due to Obamacare which is a bastardized stepson of socialized medicine.....

in Britain, Prime Minister David Cameron has introduced a bill seeking to partially privatize the National Health Service (NHS). Why? Because the British government is "hoping to avoid a Greek-style financial meltdown."

Why the UK Is Ditching Socialized Medicine

here is the problem I see with privatizing now after being a F-ed up social system. The private companies are not going to accept the government payments, this means that people will have to pay out of pocket, or buy insurance from a private market in order to cover that cost. And at the same time their cost for the government health care is not going to be reduced.

 

[forkup]

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.

10 Most Advanced Countries in Medicine - Insider Monkey

youre right. There's only one little problem the next 9 countries and probably the next after that all have socialised medical care.Invalidating youre point that only free enterprise is capable of delivering advanced experimental healthcare. Also in that list the us has the largest population wich naturally makes it easier to deliver more papers. And lastly I already said that US healthcare is very advanced what I was claiming that my healthcare system is more accessible,cheaper and more efficient for the average person.'Now theres one circumstane I'll probably pick US healthcare over Belgian one. If I was a millionaire with some very complex ailment. Because I imagine that the top 1 percent of doctors in the US are better then the top 1 in mine. The difference is of course that the top 1 in mine is within the financiel reach of all citizens.'

I doubt that the top 1% in either country are any better than the other. This is not about the quality of your doctors, this is about the care.
as for your other question.
I pay 25 dollars if I go to the ER and am not admitted. 0 if I am admitted.
my prescriptions (on the spot) are 10 for name brand and 5 for generic.
If I go into the hospital to get my appendix out, my cost out of pocket is 0
I get a private room (that's all they have here) every time without paying out of pocket. ( again, you say you have not heard of this, so I will accept your word on that since you are actually there). I do not have a yearly out of pocket that has to be met. I simply show my insurance card to the hospital when they come around to check you in (after you are already being seen) and I never see any bill at all.
The wait times here have really grown over the last 10 years for the ER, we used to wait maybe an hour, now you need to pack a meal and maybe a change of clothes if you are walking in to the ER. The reason is that in this area all of the illegals use the ER for everything from a common cold to actual emergencies. It is slowing things down when they don't speak English.
I don't have healthcare costs added to my fuel prices, right now I pay 1.70 a gallon for diesel, you pay much more. I don't have a huge amount deducted in taxes from my pay to cover it.
I much prefer it the way the U.S did it before being destroyed by the great divider obama.

First of all thank you, I finally have found someone willing to post honestly on point and is willing to have a real discussion. My first question, if you don't mind answering of course what's your anual health insurrance cost? Just so you know out of pocket means i get a bill. Because i have a feeling I used the idiom wrong or like my wife calls it a 'Ziva'. Anyways you are right when you say I pay alot of extra taxes, both upfront and hidden ones like gas prices. But and here's the thing it doesn't just get me healthcare it gets me all manner of other services, cheap education, high unemployment compentation, decent pensions etc. My point is it is a different way of looking at what the government should provide it's ppl. I know we totaly disagree on what the answer to that question is, but at least we both seem willing to discuss our viewpoints without having to hide behing retoric.

 

[Londoner]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

 

[forkup]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

correct me if i'm wrong but are more ppl insured because of Obamcare? If so please explain how the situation is getting worse?

 

[francoHFW]

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

Belgium Health care

You have to pay for daily hospital care in Belgium,
while your health insurer should cover the costs of medical treatment you receive while you’re there. When you’re admitted to hospital you have to pay a guarantee and show your SIS card or eID. Fees vary. If you choose a shared room you pay a set fee for the room and treatment that will be almost completely reimbursed. If you choose a single room then you pay extra for the room and the doctor may also set his or her own fee for treatment. Ask in advance for a breakdown of extra charges.

You have to pay for prescription medicines when you collect them from the pharmacy,
minus the set percentage payable by the insurer. Some medications are reimbursed fully while others only up to 20 percent.
The Belgian healthcare system | Healthcare | Expatica Belgium

Lol where do you think I live I'm in belgium together with my wife.

Then why do you have any concern how the U.S conducts its business. Just like I think the U.S should stay out of everyone elses business, I would expect the same from others.
Don't you have some pressing issues to deal with in your own country?

First of all my wife is still an american citizen and will vote absentee. Second i know of few things wich would have a more profound effect on the world then you guys ellecting trump. Third this treath is about fixing healthcare. I have given an alternative. So far the republicans have given me. An repeated answer altough i pointed out how its false. An reply stating how it's not comparable wich again i rebuffed and now another statement questioning my right to get involved. What i haven't seen is a real substanciated rebuff of the facts I've stated.
And fourth Mary this was a post started by you yesterday.'Lets duplicate European government health care'. You started that thread. I'm just replying to this one. It's not a bit hypocritical of you to now state that I as an European have no right to speak. I have a hell of alot more reason to get involved in your politics that you have in mine.Btw, not to put to fine a point on it, I won that argument to and not once did i need to question anybody's validity to reply.

Forums>US Discussion>Politics>

all very interesting, inspirational I might say.
but, the reality is that you dont live here, so, I dont care about your opinion on how we do things. If our electing Donald Trump is something that you fear, I suggest you put less dependency on the U.S in the first place.
Your health care is not free, you pay for it through higher taxes what is it? 7.5% of payroll or something, and then its not even covered at 100% like mine currently is. and let me clue you in, I dont pay 7% of my income for my insurance.
I personally have a much better plan than you.
Tell me again why I would want to go to the inferior insurance that you have?

First of all with your posts you have now established that your not only a hypocrit but a bigot to. Second lets test your second assumption that my healthcare is inferior. 'List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' this link points you to the WHO numbers and the numbers of
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Depending on wich you use, my healthcare system is 1/2 the price of yours. Countries Compared by Health > Physicians > Per 1,000 people. International Statistics at NationMaster.com this link establishes that we have signifacntly more doctors per 1000 ppl then yours. As to your personal situation I don't know what it is but I'll tell you how mine is. I get my meds immediatly when I go to the pharmesist. No wait time. Antibiotics cost about 2Euro per box. A doctors visit costs me about 5euro. Double that when has to make a house call. A typical ER visit takes about 2 to 3 hours. I can also get affordable housecalls from physical therapist and nurses, even cleaners if I'm incapacitated and can't clean my house. Now tell you what does your healthcare do, to make it better then mine? Oh and a typical surgery, setting legs, removing appendic and the like costs me 600 euro out of pocket.

Belgium Health care

You have to pay for daily hospital care in Belgium,
while your health insurer should cover the costs of medical treatment you receive while you’re there. When you’re admitted to hospital you have to pay a guarantee and show your SIS card or eID. Fees vary. If you choose a shared room you pay a set fee for the room and treatment that will be almost completely reimbursed. If you choose a single room then you pay extra for the room and the doctor may also set his or her own fee for treatment. Ask in advance for a breakdown of extra charges.

You have to pay for prescription medicines when you collect them from the pharmacy,
minus the set percentage payable by the insurer. Some medications are reimbursed fully while others only up to 20 percent.
The Belgian healthcare system | Healthcare | Expatica Belgium

That's up to your usual standard. That's for expats and tourists in Belgium, not natives. lol

 

[francoHFW]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

Actually, it is the answer, and is just fair, intelligent capitalism. NOT COMMUNISM. ACA will do just great when fully implemented and when the GOP and their crony health insurers cooperate and stop sabotaging it. Already the cost curve is bending down and many more are covered.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

correct me if i'm wrong but are more ppl insured because of Obamcare? If so please explain how the situation is getting worse?

Now, as 2015 slowly draws to a close, we see that each and every one of those promises was broken, and the problems with Obamacare seem to be getting worse − although there are almost 10 million more people insured. But at what cost?

Tens of millions of Americans have been forced to change health care plans, change doctors, incur significantly higher premiums, pay much higher deductibles and often skip routine testing because it must be paid out of pocket. All of this, the president tells us, was necessary to provide insurance for an additional 10 million people by 2015.

About 85 percent of the previously uninsured receive a subsidy reducing their premiums by an average of $270 per month. That’s a cost to taxpayers of more than $27 billion annually. This is added to the higher premiums and higher deductibles that the average American now already pays for Obamacare coverage.

There are additional costs that taxpayers incur. The ACA established 23 health co-ops. These are essentially non-profit insurance companies that were supposed to provide health coverage at the lowest possible cost to consumers and keep a lid on prices charged by commercial health insurance companies, thus adding an element of “competition” to the coverage pools.

But one by one, these co-ops have been failing. Recently, Health Republic Insurance of Oregon and Colorado HealthOP said it will cease operations at the end of the year. Just days before, the Kentucky Health Cooperative and the Tennessee Community Health Alliance said they would also shut down.

All told, eight of the original 23 cop-ops that received a whopping $900 million in federal loans and provided service to more than 500,000 Americans have failed. Worse, a recent report by the Department of Health and Human Services inspector general said the remaining co-ops are “in deep financial trouble,” with more expected to close.


It gets even worse for Medicare recipients. When the ACA was passed, it included a provision that transferred funds out of Medicare to pay for the exchanges. The result is that about 30 percent of Medicare beneficiaries will see their Part B premiums rise by as much as 52 percent in 2016.
In 2016, the penalty on individuals who choose not to purchase health insurance will increase to at least $625 per year. But that figure could be even higher, based on an individual’s income. This tax − which President Obama refused to call a tax until the Supreme Court said it was a tax − will be paid by every American who freely chooses not to purchase health insurance.

In 2018, the situation will get even worse. Millions of Americans who are able to negotiate a high-quality health care package as part of their benefit package will discover they have incurred an additional tax. If an individual employee negotiates a “Cadillac” plan which costs his employers more than the Obama administration says it should, that individual will pay a 40 percent tax on the amount above Obama’s arbitrary limit. This could cost such individuals another $1,500 to $2,000 per year in taxes.

All this added expense is effectively penalizing several hundred millions of Americans just so that less than 10 million people can receive free or nearly free health insurance. Such a policy seems grossly unfair. But in addition, many Americans are receiving poorer, not better health care as a result of the ACA. Nearly every doctor and hospital administrator that I have spoken to about Obamacare speaks negatively regarding the results. Doctors are working more hours and are receiving less pay, hardly an incentive for providing quality care.

Obamacare problems will only increase in 2016

 

[francoHFW]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

correct me if i'm wrong but are more ppl insured because of Obamcare? If so please explain how the situation is getting worse?

Now, as 2015 slowly draws to a close, we see that each and every one of those promises was broken, and the problems with Obamacare seem to be getting worse − although there are almost 10 million more people insured. But at what cost?

Tens of millions of Americans have been forced to change health care plans, change doctors, incur significantly higher premiums, pay much higher deductibles and often skip routine testing because it must be paid out of pocket. All of this, the president tells us, was necessary to provide insurance for an additional 10 million people by 2015.

About 85 percent of the previously uninsured receive a subsidy reducing their premiums by an average of $270 per month. That’s a cost to taxpayers of more than $27 billion annually. This is added to the higher premiums and higher deductibles that the average American now already pays for Obamacare coverage.

There are additional costs that taxpayers incur. The ACA established 23 health co-ops. These are essentially non-profit insurance companies that were supposed to provide health coverage at the lowest possible cost to consumers and keep a lid on prices charged by commercial health insurance companies, thus adding an element of “competition” to the coverage pools.

But one by one, these co-ops have been failing. Recently, Health Republic Insurance of Oregon and Colorado HealthOP said it will cease operations at the end of the year. Just days before, the Kentucky Health Cooperative and the Tennessee Community Health Alliance said they would also shut down.

All told, eight of the original 23 cop-ops that received a whopping $900 million in federal loans and provided service to more than 500,000 Americans have failed. Worse, a recent report by the Department of Health and Human Services inspector general said the remaining co-ops are “in deep financial trouble,” with more expected to close.


It gets even worse for Medicare recipients. When the ACA was passed, it included a provision that transferred funds out of Medicare to pay for the exchanges. The result is that about 30 percent of Medicare beneficiaries will see their Part B premiums rise by as much as 52 percent in 2016.
In 2016, the penalty on individuals who choose not to purchase health insurance will increase to at least $625 per year. But that figure could be even higher, based on an individual’s income. This tax − which President Obama refused to call a tax until the Supreme Court said it was a tax − will be paid by every American who freely chooses not to purchase health insurance.

In 2018, the situation will get even worse. Millions of Americans who are able to negotiate a high-quality health care package as part of their benefit package will discover they have incurred an additional tax. If an individual employee negotiates a “Cadillac” plan which costs his employers more than the Obama administration says it should, that individual will pay a 40 percent tax on the amount above Obama’s arbitrary limit. This could cost such individuals another $1,500 to $2,000 per year in taxes.

All this added expense is effectively penalizing several hundred millions of Americans just so that less than 10 million people can receive free or nearly free health insurance. Such a policy seems grossly unfair. But in addition, many Americans are receiving poorer, not better health care as a result of the ACA. Nearly every doctor and hospital administrator that I have spoken to about Obamacare speaks negatively regarding the results. Doctors are working more hours and are receiving less pay, hardly an incentive for providing quality care.

Obamacare problems will only increase in 2016

Total bs RW nuttery. Premiums went up a lot only in Red states where scam Pub policies were available. Life is tough when health costs are an out of control 18% of GDP. Now transparent competition and regulation is bending down the cost curve.

Of course that $2500 saving will happen. Only RW propagandists and total dupes say it was to be immediate. You people also have no clue as to its benefits- Free tests and annual cap of $6K etc., or how the old Pub scam was killing people.

 

[forkup]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

correct me if i'm wrong but are more ppl insured because of Obamcare? If so please explain how the situation is getting worse?

Now, as 2015 slowly draws to a close, we see that each and every one of those promises was broken, and the problems with Obamacare seem to be getting worse − although there are almost 10 million more people insured. But at what cost?

Tens of millions of Americans have been forced to change health care plans, change doctors, incur significantly higher premiums, pay much higher deductibles and often skip routine testing because it must be paid out of pocket. All of this, the president tells us, was necessary to provide insurance for an additional 10 million people by 2015.

About 85 percent of the previously uninsured receive a subsidy reducing their premiums by an average of $270 per month. That’s a cost to taxpayers of more than $27 billion annually. This is added to the higher premiums and higher deductibles that the average American now already pays for Obamacare coverage.

There are additional costs that taxpayers incur. The ACA established 23 health co-ops. These are essentially non-profit insurance companies that were supposed to provide health coverage at the lowest possible cost to consumers and keep a lid on prices charged by commercial health insurance companies, thus adding an element of “competition” to the coverage pools.

But one by one, these co-ops have been failing. Recently, Health Republic Insurance of Oregon and Colorado HealthOP said it will cease operations at the end of the year. Just days before, the Kentucky Health Cooperative and the Tennessee Community Health Alliance said they would also shut down.

All told, eight of the original 23 cop-ops that received a whopping $900 million in federal loans and provided service to more than 500,000 Americans have failed. Worse, a recent report by the Department of Health and Human Services inspector general said the remaining co-ops are “in deep financial trouble,” with more expected to close.


It gets even worse for Medicare recipients. When the ACA was passed, it included a provision that transferred funds out of Medicare to pay for the exchanges. The result is that about 30 percent of Medicare beneficiaries will see their Part B premiums rise by as much as 52 percent in 2016.
In 2016, the penalty on individuals who choose not to purchase health insurance will increase to at least $625 per year. But that figure could be even higher, based on an individual’s income. This tax − which President Obama refused to call a tax until the Supreme Court said it was a tax − will be paid by every American who freely chooses not to purchase health insurance.

In 2018, the situation will get even worse. Millions of Americans who are able to negotiate a high-quality health care package as part of their benefit package will discover they have incurred an additional tax. If an individual employee negotiates a “Cadillac” plan which costs his employers more than the Obama administration says it should, that individual will pay a 40 percent tax on the amount above Obama’s arbitrary limit. This could cost such individuals another $1,500 to $2,000 per year in taxes.

All this added expense is effectively penalizing several hundred millions of Americans just so that less than 10 million people can receive free or nearly free health insurance. Such a policy seems grossly unfair. But in addition, many Americans are receiving poorer, not better health care as a result of the ACA. Nearly every doctor and hospital administrator that I have spoken to about Obamacare speaks negatively regarding the results. Doctors are working more hours and are receiving less pay, hardly an incentive for providing quality care.

Obamacare problems will only increase in 2016

Yup that sounds like ACA is a complete mess. Only thing i can say its wrong to compare this with socialized medicine. I've done numorous post on how we keep our costs down in my country in this thread. Our insurance companies (yes we have more then 1) are all government run. Wich takes out the for profit part out of it. I'm guessing and it is just a guess that that's where the problem lies. If you give private health isurance companies the ability to get subsidies to provide health care I imaging that since it is like you said' free enterprise' they won't do it on the cheap. They basicly take tax payer money and give it to the shareholders driving up cost.

 

[francoHFW]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

correct me if i'm wrong but are more ppl insured because of Obamcare? If so please explain how the situation is getting worse?

Now, as 2015 slowly draws to a close, we see that each and every one of those promises was broken, and the problems with Obamacare seem to be getting worse − although there are almost 10 million more people insured. But at what cost?

Tens of millions of Americans have been forced to change health care plans, change doctors, incur significantly higher premiums, pay much higher deductibles and often skip routine testing because it must be paid out of pocket. All of this, the president tells us, was necessary to provide insurance for an additional 10 million people by 2015.

About 85 percent of the previously uninsured receive a subsidy reducing their premiums by an average of $270 per month. That’s a cost to taxpayers of more than $27 billion annually. This is added to the higher premiums and higher deductibles that the average American now already pays for Obamacare coverage.

There are additional costs that taxpayers incur. The ACA established 23 health co-ops. These are essentially non-profit insurance companies that were supposed to provide health coverage at the lowest possible cost to consumers and keep a lid on prices charged by commercial health insurance companies, thus adding an element of “competition” to the coverage pools.

But one by one, these co-ops have been failing. Recently, Health Republic Insurance of Oregon and Colorado HealthOP said it will cease operations at the end of the year. Just days before, the Kentucky Health Cooperative and the Tennessee Community Health Alliance said they would also shut down.

All told, eight of the original 23 cop-ops that received a whopping $900 million in federal loans and provided service to more than 500,000 Americans have failed. Worse, a recent report by the Department of Health and Human Services inspector general said the remaining co-ops are “in deep financial trouble,” with more expected to close.


It gets even worse for Medicare recipients. When the ACA was passed, it included a provision that transferred funds out of Medicare to pay for the exchanges. The result is that about 30 percent of Medicare beneficiaries will see their Part B premiums rise by as much as 52 percent in 2016.
In 2016, the penalty on individuals who choose not to purchase health insurance will increase to at least $625 per year. But that figure could be even higher, based on an individual’s income. This tax − which President Obama refused to call a tax until the Supreme Court said it was a tax − will be paid by every American who freely chooses not to purchase health insurance.

In 2018, the situation will get even worse. Millions of Americans who are able to negotiate a high-quality health care package as part of their benefit package will discover they have incurred an additional tax. If an individual employee negotiates a “Cadillac” plan which costs his employers more than the Obama administration says it should, that individual will pay a 40 percent tax on the amount above Obama’s arbitrary limit. This could cost such individuals another $1,500 to $2,000 per year in taxes.

All this added expense is effectively penalizing several hundred millions of Americans just so that less than 10 million people can receive free or nearly free health insurance. Such a policy seems grossly unfair. But in addition, many Americans are receiving poorer, not better health care as a result of the ACA. Nearly every doctor and hospital administrator that I have spoken to about Obamacare speaks negatively regarding the results. Doctors are working more hours and are receiving less pay, hardly an incentive for providing quality care.

Obamacare problems will only increase in 2016

Yup that sounds like ACA is a complete mess. Only thing i can say its wrong to compare this with socialized medicine. I've done numorous post on how we keep our costs down in my country in this thread. Our insurance companies (yes we have more then 1) are all government run. Wich takes out the for profit part out of it. I'm guessing and it is just a guess that that's where the problem lies. If you give private health isurance companies the ability to get subsidies to provide health care I imaging that since it is like you said' free enterprise' they won't do it on the cheap. They basicly take tax payer money and give it to the shareholders driving up cost.

Don't believe a word of that RW screed...

 

[MaryL]

My Doctor pointed this out to me, he is younger and healthier than I but had a recent health scare. He said" the American health care system is the only business were the consumer can't understand the billing system were the consumer can't get a clear picture of what they are paying for. No other service, no other consumer services can get away with such arcane billing services to get away with charging whatever they want to than the health care system". My Doctor doesn't even understand his own bills. We need to overhaul the billing system and make it simpler, more direct and accountable. We don't need supplemental tacked on phony insurance of Obama care with the burden of tax penalties to boot...

 

[francoHFW]

Voters are fed talking points about the evils of "socialized" medicine, with its rationing and the fact that it doesn't let crippled poor children die in the streets.

But it becomes a huge problem when those socialized systems rank ahead of ours for efficiency and outcomes.

The people defending the American System don't understand that after decades of concentrating lobbying the American Health Care and Pharmaceutical sectors became virtual state protected monopolies that were able to raise rates and decrease service/coverage without fear of losing customers to a more efficient/innovative competitor.

Our politicians were paid off. They enabled a rentier class to take over our health care delivery system. We made a small class of people rich while at the same time fleecing the middle class, who became unable to afford a system that grew at 5x inflation.

Reagan promised the opposite. He said the market would innovate and offer competitive pricing. Who knew that they would do the opposite? Who knew that they would simply invest in politicians to help them monopolize coverage and distort market incentives, and who knew they would invest in talk radio to convince morons to scream "socialism" at anyone who tried to fix it?

i agree there are problems that need to be addressed.......but socialism is not the answer......we have one foot in it already with Obamacare (which was supposed to solve it all) and the problems just keep on increasing......

correct me if i'm wrong but are more ppl insured because of Obamcare? If so please explain how the situation is getting worse?

Now, as 2015 slowly draws to a close, we see that each and every one of those promises was broken, and the problems with Obamacare seem to be getting worse − although there are almost 10 million more people insured. But at what cost?

Tens of millions of Americans have been forced to change health care plans, change doctors, incur significantly higher premiums, pay much higher deductibles and often skip routine testing because it must be paid out of pocket. All of this, the president tells us, was necessary to provide insurance for an additional 10 million people by 2015.

About 85 percent of the previously uninsured receive a subsidy reducing their premiums by an average of $270 per month. That’s a cost to taxpayers of more than $27 billion annually. This is added to the higher premiums and higher deductibles that the average American now already pays for Obamacare coverage.

There are additional costs that taxpayers incur. The ACA established 23 health co-ops. These are essentially non-profit insurance companies that were supposed to provide health coverage at the lowest possible cost to consumers and keep a lid on prices charged by commercial health insurance companies, thus adding an element of “competition” to the coverage pools.

But one by one, these co-ops have been failing. Recently, Health Republic Insurance of Oregon and Colorado HealthOP said it will cease operations at the end of the year. Just days before, the Kentucky Health Cooperative and the Tennessee Community Health Alliance said they would also shut down.

All told, eight of the original 23 cop-ops that received a whopping $900 million in federal loans and provided service to more than 500,000 Americans have failed. Worse, a recent report by the Department of Health and Human Services inspector general said the remaining co-ops are “in deep financial trouble,” with more expected to close.


It gets even worse for Medicare recipients. When the ACA was passed, it included a provision that transferred funds out of Medicare to pay for the exchanges. The result is that about 30 percent of Medicare beneficiaries will see their Part B premiums rise by as much as 52 percent in 2016.
In 2016, the penalty on individuals who choose not to purchase health insurance will increase to at least $625 per year. But that figure could be even higher, based on an individual’s income. This tax − which President Obama refused to call a tax until the Supreme Court said it was a tax − will be paid by every American who freely chooses not to purchase health insurance.

In 2018, the situation will get even worse. Millions of Americans who are able to negotiate a high-quality health care package as part of their benefit package will discover they have incurred an additional tax. If an individual employee negotiates a “Cadillac” plan which costs his employers more than the Obama administration says it should, that individual will pay a 40 percent tax on the amount above Obama’s arbitrary limit. This could cost such individuals another $1,500 to $2,000 per year in taxes.

All this added expense is effectively penalizing several hundred millions of Americans just so that less than 10 million people can receive free or nearly free health insurance. Such a policy seems grossly unfair. But in addition, many Americans are receiving poorer, not better health care as a result of the ACA. Nearly every doctor and hospital administrator that I have spoken to about Obamacare speaks negatively regarding the results. Doctors are working more hours and are receiving less pay, hardly an incentive for providing quality care.

Obamacare problems will only increase in 2016

Yup that sounds like ACA is a complete mess. Only thing i can say its wrong to compare this with socialized medicine. I've done numorous post on how we keep our costs down in my country in this thread. Our insurance companies (yes we have more then 1) are all government run. Wich takes out the for profit part out of it. I'm guessing and it is just a guess that that's where the problem lies. If you give private health isurance companies the ability to get subsidies to provide health care I imaging that since it is like you said' free enterprise' they won't do it on the cheap. They basicly take tax payer money and give it to the shareholders driving up cost.

ACA DID cut insurers non medical spending from 28% to 20%. It's just a framework to be added to over time, it just started and the GOP and their scam insurer pals are still obstructing everywhere they can...

 

[Maryland Patriot]

wow that sounds just great.....until you realize that over time your medical system will just address the minimum needs and not engage in medical research that would improve your lot.....by the time you are an old man you may die early while someone in a free market system of your same age, etc. would live decades longer....

despite its many problems, free enterprise is what has given the USA the most advanced medical service in the world....

14/10/2015 - A research team led by Amantha Thathiah (VIB/KU Leuven) has determined that a protein – known as GPR3 – might play an important role in alleviating the cognitive deficits and reducing the generation of ‘amyloid plaques’.

Disruption of brain-blood barrier might influence progression of Alzheimer’s
29/09/2015 - The team of Roosmarijn Vandenbroucke in the Claude Libert Group (VIB/UGent) combined their knowledge and expertise related to inflammation with the expertise in Alzheimer’s disease present in the Bart De Strooper Group (VIB/KU Leuven).

Alzheimer’s-disease-related proteases, BACE1 and APH1B-y-secretase, control axonal guidance by regulating growth cone dynamics
14/09/2015 - BACE1 is the major drug target for Alzheimer’s disease. Soraia Barão and Bart De Strooper (VIB/KU Leuven) now show that this protease is critically involved in axonal guidance processes in thalamic and hippocampal neurons.

European scientists join forces for animal research
26/11/2014 - Scientists across Europe are rising against the proposal of Stop Vivisection to phase out animal experimentation in Europe.

Failed Alzheimer’s test shows in which direction the research should continue
06/11/2014 - Disappointing results in clinical Alzheimer’s studies discourage scientists from continuing their research. Alzheimer’s expert Bart De Strooper argues that these studies are not pointless, but merely indicate what the next steps should be.

Zebrafish help to unravel Alzheimer’s disease
19/08/2014 - A new by VIB/KU Leuven scientists gives new knowledge about the regulation of stem cells in the nerve tissue of zebrafish embryos results in surprising insights into neurodegenerative disease processes in the human brain.

This is an exert of research of Alzheimer disease in belgium. It is amongst the top in the world. This is of course highly selective I just heard about this in the news quite recently. But it illustrates that cutting edge research is perfectly feasable in socialised healthcare.
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is a link that shows that in this category too belgium scores better then th US, sorry.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.

10 Most Advanced Countries in Medicine - Insider Monkey

youre right. There's only one little problem the next 9 countries and probably the next after that all have socialised medical care.Invalidating youre point that only free enterprise is capable of delivering advanced experimental healthcare. Also in that list the us has the largest population wich naturally makes it easier to deliver more papers. And lastly I already said that US healthcare is very advanced what I was claiming that my healthcare system is more accessible,cheaper and more efficient for the average person.'Now theres one circumstane I'll probably pick US healthcare over Belgian one. If I was a millionaire with some very complex ailment. Because I imagine that the top 1 percent of doctors in the US are better then the top 1 in mine. The difference is of course that the top 1 in mine is within the financiel reach of all citizens.'

I doubt that the top 1% in either country are any better than the other. This is not about the quality of your doctors, this is about the care.
as for your other question.
I pay 25 dollars if I go to the ER and am not admitted. 0 if I am admitted.
my prescriptions (on the spot) are 10 for name brand and 5 for generic.
If I go into the hospital to get my appendix out, my cost out of pocket is 0
I get a private room (that's all they have here) every time without paying out of pocket. ( again, you say you have not heard of this, so I will accept your word on that since you are actually there). I do not have a yearly out of pocket that has to be met. I simply show my insurance card to the hospital when they come around to check you in (after you are already being seen) and I never see any bill at all.
The wait times here have really grown over the last 10 years for the ER, we used to wait maybe an hour, now you need to pack a meal and maybe a change of clothes if you are walking in to the ER. The reason is that in this area all of the illegals use the ER for everything from a common cold to actual emergencies. It is slowing things down when they don't speak English.
I don't have healthcare costs added to my fuel prices, right now I pay 1.70 a gallon for diesel, you pay much more. I don't have a huge amount deducted in taxes from my pay to cover it.
I much prefer it the way the U.S did it before being destroyed by the great divider obama.

First of all thank you, I finally have found someone willing to post honestly on point and is willing to have a real discussion. My first question, if you don't mind answering of course what's your anual health insurrance cost? Just so you know out of pocket means i get a bill. Because i have a feeling I used the idiom wrong or like my wife calls it a 'Ziva'. Anyways you are right when you say I pay alot of extra taxes, both upfront and hidden ones like gas prices. But and here's the thing it doesn't just get me healthcare it gets me all manner of other services, cheap education, high unemployment compentation, decent pensions etc. My point is it is a different way of looking at what the government should provide it's ppl. I know we totaly disagree on what the answer to that question is, but at least we both seem willing to discuss our viewpoints without having to hide behing retoric.

my yearly premium is just under 5,000 for a family of three.
Now, lets look at this. Most likely you entered the work force with these taxes and costs in place, so as you went through your life, your purchases were made with those costs already a factor. Your house, cars, vacations, whatever, all are afforded after the cost of taxes for all the things you want the government to do for people. (another place we differ, the government has no money of its own, therefore the only thing it can do is force a redistribution of wealth)
At any rate, we have not had that cost here, our bills like homes, cars, vacations and whatever have been accrued with a certain income that allows for this. But, now all of a sudden we find ourselves with a bill for insurance, that cost was 5k a year, now if I have to go to one of the ACA plans, because of my income I would pay 10k a year with a 12k out of pocket. That is a big difference.
For some it means they might lose their home, or their cars, or even their retirement that they have worked for.
What if your government suddenly decided that everyone needed a car, and began giving cars for free to anyone that made X amount of dollars or less per year. X being less than you make, and your monthly tax bill was to go up 3 or 4 hundred dollars a month but your pay would stay the same. Would that in any way affect your quality of life? Would you be for it or against it.

 

[francoHFW]

My Doctor pointed this out to me, he is younger and healthier than I but had a recent health scare. He said" the American health care system is the only business were the consumer can't understand the billing system were the consumer can't get a clear picture of what they are paying for. No other service, no other consumer services can get away with such arcane billing services to get away with charging whatever they want to than the health care system". My Doctor doesn't even understand his own bills. We need to overhaul the billing system and make it simpler, more direct and accountable. We don't need supplemental tacked on phony insurance of Obama care with the burden of tax penalties to boot...

ACA DID make Big Health show all there costs...reform NEXT. It's certainly not perfect immediately. Passed by the skin of teeth in Big Money DC.