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We are not discussing whether Stalin and the USSR were allied to GB and the USA. That remains a fact.<snip>That would have been news to Churchill, FDR, Marshall, Truman, etc.,
A wise decision by Truman.. . . I mean only that (in fact) it was an option he had that Ike did not, and that he chose not to use it.
Still a wise decision by Truman.the window of opportunity for action didn't close in 1945, but extended through 1949, when the Soviets finally broke the US nuclear monopoly. During this period, the U.S. constructed many A-bombs; the Soviets had none.
General Snow was Chairman of The Loyalty-Security Board from 1947-1952. Snow stated that the Security Division at State passed on information on security questions and the FBI passed on information on loyalty exclusively.
Snow gave a report to the Secretary Jan 8, 1953 about McCarthy's allegations giving a statistical breakdown of McCarthy's allegations. McCarthy NEVER came to Snow or the Loyalty-Security committee, NOT ONCE, to discuss ANY report or ANY information.
In one case McCarthy made a public statement that a State Department employee was associating with a Communist, General Snow went immediately to McCarthy's office and inquired about the name of the Communist that employee was associating with. McCarthy told him he had that name on a piece of paper and that the paper had been lost.
"We never received any assistance from McCarthy whatsoever, except the names of 61 alleged communists in the State Departmend, whose files were made available to a select committee chaired by Millard Tydings-Foreign Relations Committee. That Committee had an oppurtunity to read all 61 cases. The Committee gave the State Department a clean bill of health on allof the files"
Snow made 3 speeches in 1951 "I accused McCarthy of making false statements about matters he knew were false".
General Conrad E. Snow knew McCarthy was a liar and told him that to his face.
Richard D. McKinzie interview with General Snow July 2, 1973
If this is an accurate recounting of what Gen. Snow said, he erred when he said that McCarthy had submitted
the names of 61 alleged communists in the State Departmend
Snow made two errors here: the number of suspects, and the allegations against them. While many of the 124 suspects whose cases McCarthy submitted to the Senate for investigation were at such agencies as Treasury, Commerce, the UN, etc., 67 were still in the State Department at the time (68 if you count Harlow Shapley, a non-compensated State Department adviser at the UN). Nor were these alleged Communists: what McCarthy actually said was that his suspects would appear to be either card carrying Communists or certainly loyal to the Communist Party.
Fellow-travelers who were not CP members but were loyal to the Communist Party were explicitly targeted by the Truman Loyalty Order (Membership in, affiliation with or sympathetic association with any foreign or domestic organization, association, movement, group or combination of persons, designated by the Attorney General as totalitarian, Fascist, Communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny other persons their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of Government of the United States by unconstitutional means [Emphasis added]). However, Snow was absolutely right that
The Committee gave the State Department a clean bill of health on allof the files
The Senate had charged the Tydings subcommittee with the task of conducting a full and complete study and investigation as to whether persons who are disloyal to the United States are, or have been, employed by the Department of State. Astonishingly, Tydings could not find a single instance, somehow missing such blatant cases as Noel Field (who had defected to the East bloc in 1948) or Laurence Duggan, who committed suicide (or was liquidated by SMERSH) after being identified by the FBI as a Soviet agent.
Flabbergasted by Tyding's performance, Sen. Irving Ives (R-NY) suggested that a fraud and a hoax have been perpetrated on the Senate of the United States, and the American people by Tydings, adding that such perpetration is evident in the apparently deliberate action of the subcommittee in disregarding the will of the Senate.
How Tydings could have come to overlook such obvious cases may be surmised from his memorandum to President Truman:
I strongly recommend for your own welfare, for the welfare of the country and lastly for the welfare of the Democratic party that the present Communist inquiry not be allowed to worsen, but that you take bold, forthright and courageous action which I presume to say will do as much as anything I can think of to give you and your administration and party a tremendous advantage in the coming election. [Emphasis added]
Despite Truman's best efforts, the voters reelected McCarthy, and dumped Tydings.
General Snow was Chairman of The Loyalty-Security Board from 1947-1952. Snow stated that the Security Division at State passed on information on security questions and the FBI passed on information on loyalty exclusively.
Snow gave a report to the Secretary Jan 8, 1953 about McCarthy's allegations giving a statistical breakdown of McCarthy's allegations. McCarthy NEVER came to Snow or the Loyalty-Security committee, NOT ONCE, to discuss ANY report or ANY information.
In one case McCarthy made a public statement that a State Department employee was associating with a Communist, General Snow went immediately to McCarthy's office and inquired about the name of the Communist that employee was associating with. McCarthy told him he had that name on a piece of paper and that the paper had been lost.
"We never received any assistance from McCarthy whatsoever, except the names of 61 alleged communists in the State Departmend, whose files were made available to a select committee chaired by Millard Tydings-Foreign Relations Committee. That Committee had an oppurtunity to read all 61 cases. The Committee gave the State Department a clean bill of health on allof the files"
Snow made 3 speeches in 1951 "I accused McCarthy of making false statements about matters he knew were false".
General Conrad E. Snow knew McCarthy was a liar and told him that to his face.
Richard D. McKinzie interview with General Snow July 2, 1973
If this is an accurate recounting of what Gen. Snow said, he erred when he said that McCarthy had submitted
Snow made two errors here: the number of suspects, and the allegations against them. While many of the 124 suspects whose cases McCarthy submitted to the Senate for investigation were at such agencies as Treasury, Commerce, the UN, etc., 67 were still in the State Department at the time (68 if you count Harlow Shapley, a non-compensated State Department adviser at the UN). Nor were these alleged Communists: what McCarthy actually said was that his suspects would appear to be either card carrying Communists or certainly loyal to the Communist Party.
Fellow-travelers who were not CP members but were loyal to the Communist Party were explicitly targeted by the Truman Loyalty Order (Membership in, affiliation with or sympathetic association with any foreign or domestic organization, association, movement, group or combination of persons, designated by the Attorney General as totalitarian, Fascist, Communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny other persons their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of Government of the United States by unconstitutional means [Emphasis added]). However, Snow was absolutely right that
The Committee gave the State Department a clean bill of health on allof the files
The Senate had charged the Tydings subcommittee with the task of conducting a full and complete study and investigation as to whether persons who are disloyal to the United States are, or have been, employed by the Department of State. Astonishingly, Tydings could not find a single instance, somehow missing such blatant cases as Noel Field (who had defected to the East bloc in 1948) or Laurence Duggan, who committed suicide (or was liquidated by SMERSH) after being identified by the FBI as a Soviet agent.
Flabbergasted by Tyding's performance, Sen. Irving Ives (R-NY) suggested that a fraud and a hoax have been perpetrated on the Senate of the United States, and the American people by Tydings, adding that such perpetration is evident in the apparently deliberate action of the subcommittee in disregarding the will of the Senate.
How Tydings could have come to overlook such obvious cases may be surmised from his memorandum to President Truman:
I strongly recommend for your own welfare, for the welfare of the country and lastly for the welfare of the Democratic party that the present Communist inquiry not be allowed to worsen, but that you take bold, forthright and courageous action which I presume to say will do as much as anything I can think of to give you and your administration and party a tremendous advantage in the coming election. [Emphasis added]
Despite Truman's best efforts, the voters reelected McCarthy, and dumped Tydings.
My dear sir, Gadawg and HIS fellow travelers are unable to countenance the possibility that anything which supports their worldview could ever be anything but the bedrock, gospel truth. Thus, as far as they are concerned, a Senate investigation absolving the State Department of infiltration MUST be accepted as the end of the story, rather than being considered as a possible pile of dishonest, reeking garbage. It is the only possible explanation for him stubbornly telling us that there were no Communists at the State Department because Tydings said so, even though the record now shows that they were there, and Tydings was full of shit.
Believe McCarthy or believe Tydings? You jest.
"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant." -- Ann Coulter, P. 16
"Among the most notorious Soviet spies in high-level positions in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations -- now proved absolutely, beyond question by the Soviet cables -- were Alger Hiss at the State Department; Harry Dexter White, assistant secretary of the Treasury Department, later appointed to the International Monetary Fund by President Truman; Lauchlin Currie, personal assistant to President Roosevelt and White House liaison to the State Department under both Roosevelt and Truman; Laurence Duggan, head of the Latin American Desk at the State Department; Frank Coe, US representative on the International Monetary Fund; Solomon Adler, senior Treasury Department official; Klaus Fuchs, top atomic scientist; and Duncan Lee, senior aide to the head of the OSS." -- Ann Coulter, P. 44
How about Oppenhiemer, another Communist, all kinds of problems with Oppenhiemer's security clearance to work on the Manhatten project.
Today it seems there is a resurrgent Marxist movement, everything the Liberal or Democrat does to me seems to be moving Marxisism forward. Why is that, why the attack on McCarthy, there were Communists in our government. The only people who seem opposed to getting rid of Marxist seems like the Democrats. Is there a connection.
The Best Quotes From Ann Coulter's 'Treason' - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)
"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant." -- Ann Coulter, P. 16
"Among the most notorious Soviet spies in high-level positions in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations -- now proved absolutely, beyond question by the Soviet cables -- were Alger Hiss at the State Department; Harry Dexter White, assistant secretary of the Treasury Department, later appointed to the International Monetary Fund by President Truman; Lauchlin Currie, personal assistant to President Roosevelt and White House liaison to the State Department under both Roosevelt and Truman; Laurence Duggan, head of the Latin American Desk at the State Department; Frank Coe, US representative on the International Monetary Fund; Solomon Adler, senior Treasury Department official; Klaus Fuchs, top atomic scientist; and Duncan Lee, senior aide to the head of the OSS." -- Ann Coulter, P. 44
How about Oppenhiemer, another Communist, all kinds of problems with Oppenhiemer's security clearance to work on the Manhatten project.
Today it seems there is a resurrgent Marxist movement, everything the Liberal or Democrat does to me seems to be moving Marxisism forward. Why is that, why the attack on McCarthy, there were Communists in our government. The only people who seem opposed to getting rid of Marxist seems like the Democrats. Is there a connection.
The Best Quotes From Ann Coulter's 'Treason' - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)
"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant." -- Ann Coulter, P. 16
"Among the most notorious Soviet spies in high-level positions in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations -- now proved absolutely, beyond question by the Soviet cables -- were Alger Hiss at the State Department; Harry Dexter White, assistant secretary of the Treasury Department, later appointed to the International Monetary Fund by President Truman; Lauchlin Currie, personal assistant to President Roosevelt and White House liaison to the State Department under both Roosevelt and Truman; Laurence Duggan, head of the Latin American Desk at the State Department; Frank Coe, US representative on the International Monetary Fund; Solomon Adler, senior Treasury Department official; Klaus Fuchs, top atomic scientist; and Duncan Lee, senior aide to the head of the OSS." -- Ann Coulter, P. 44
Big problem with your argument Moe.
I am a Republican and have voted Republican 95% of the time since 1972.
I go by the live interviews of the people of the day that were in the military.
McCarthy was a liar and a drunk is what the military stated.
Case closed.
I go by the live interviews of the people of the day that were in the military.
Maybe Tydings will finally play the original recording he claimed to have of McCarthy?
Jake? Gadawg? Care to chime in?
How about Oppenhiemer, another Communist, all kinds of problems with Oppenhiemer's security clearance to work on the Manhatten project.
Today it seems there is a resurrgent Marxist movement, everything the Liberal or Democrat does to me seems to be moving Marxisism forward. Why is that, why the attack on McCarthy, there were Communists in our government. The only people who seem opposed to getting rid of Marxist seems like the Democrats. Is there a connection.
The Best Quotes From Ann Coulter's 'Treason' - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)
Big problem with your argument Moe.
I am a Republican and have voted Republican 95% of the time since 1972.
I go by the live interviews of the people of the day that were in the military.
McCarthy was a liar and a drunk is what the military stated.
Case closed.
First and foremost I think you are largely a troll or a petty man at best, that is my personal opinion of you based on how I have seen you take a post, cut what is important out, post a tiny portion, and then deliberately label and insult the person who made the post.
I am sure your response will be an astonished, "this guy is a nut" response to further sit in your authoritairian chair, for that is how I see your elitist attitude when you state unequivically that the case is closed simply because you say so and you have made the statement, "I am a Republican".
Your qualification that all you state is true is alwasy preceded by, "I am a Republican therefore what I state is right".
I see you nothing more as someone who is a troll. Here, simply, to be a negative stereotype of who a Republican is.
Your problem with my arguement is an answer that has nothing to do with Oppenhiemer?
Your problem with the facts I posted is your a Republican.
So lets see why you are, "right". Which year are you speaking, the day of 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, or 1954? Live interviews, broadcast on the radio, correct, and how many interviews did you listen to live in lets just say 1954? If I assume you began voting at the age of 21 in 1972 that makes you 4 when you heard these, "live", interviews. So who did you hear specifically. Further how are you right simply because McCarthy attacked a General and the General attacked back. If you actuallly explained what the facts are instead of characterizing all that Mccarthy did was due to drinking you might actually squeeze a fact or two out of the propaganda and lies.
I go by the live interviews of the people of the day that were in the military.
If this is your case, and all else that you posted, seems like your missing about 99.9% of the history.
Address Oppenhiemer to begin. Prove that Oppenhiemer was not knowingly associating with known Communists.
The Jury is IN, the verdict has withstood appeal. Sen. McCarthy was a drunk and bore false witness against Americans.
At this moment he is (most likely) in Hell and deserves to be.
CrusaderFrank will suffer the same fate.
Maybe Tydings will finally play the original recording he claimed to have of McCarthy?
Jake? Gadawg? Care to chime in?
Snow, not Tydings.
Maybe Tydings will finally play the original recording he claimed to have of McCarthy?
Jake? Gadawg? Care to chime in?
Snow, not Tydings.
Snow had his change to show evidence that McCarthy was a liar and instead he looked like Jake Starkey yet to show his "contradictory footnotes"
The Jury is IN, the verdict has withstood appeal. Sen. McCarthy was a drunk and bore false witness against Americans.
At this moment he is (most likely) in Hell and deserves to be.
CrusaderFrank will suffer the same fate.
You're parroting crap from a 60 year old playbook that has been completely discredited, even your Soviet friends admit they had a robust spy program at US State and that Alder, Currie, Service and many others were genuine Communist spies.
Stay ignorant, on you it looks good
The Jury is IN, the verdict has withstood appeal. Sen. McCarthy was a drunk and bore false witness against Americans.
At this moment he is (most likely) in Hell and deserves to be.
CrusaderFrank will suffer the same fate.
You're parroting crap from a 60 year old playbook that has been completely discredited, even your Soviet friends admit they had a robust spy program at US State and that Alder, Currie, Service and many others were genuine Communist spies.
Stay ignorant, on you it looks good
You know I consider you an idiot. I suspect many vistors to this MB agree with me. Simply because others patronize you, doesn't make anything you post sensible.
McCarthy was a liar, a drunk and totally discredited by his contemporaries.
I am an agnostic, but I still have hope that there is a heaven and hell (it sucks being raised catholic and having a brain) and both you and McCarthy enjoy eternity in hell.
