Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[BreezeWood]

What is it that you think I didn't answer? Do you even know?

they are called the civil war amendments - where you got your ass blown off.

 

[BreezeWood]

That's not anything like what he created. Perhaps you should do some research. There is no refutation of Judaism. The book ends with Jesus' death. There are no supernatural occurrences, no angels regarding his birth etc. Your interpretation is way off target.

fine, next time read the reply ... no, not made by jefferson.

 

[BreezeWood]

You used the word aimless, so wonder would not work. You can't "wonder aimlessly". The Jews wandered in the desert, not wondered.

You can however wander aimlessly, which I am sure you do on a regular basis.

well, not everyone wonders in the desert, aimlessly and do attempt to know the truth - recorded history can help.

wandering - is aimless ... one can wonder aimlessly than to "attempt to know the truth". no time limit, 2000 years as their excuse.

of course, a christian most likely would not know the difference.

 

[Muhammed]

What this means, to those with any historical perspective, is that Congress has no power to declare a national religion,

Bullshit. No law means no law. That prohibition is in no way limited to the declaration of a national religion at all. It is simply not the purview of the government to decide what is or is not religious in the first place.

 

[Foxfyre]

That you even wrote that sentence tells me you don't even bother to read what I write.

I have NEVER wanted a theocracy, would never consider it. Why? Because it is not good for theocracy. It doesn't help secular government either. I am very much in favor of ALL citizen participating in democracy with no intimidation by anyone.

Did you not write this in your Post #713? (emphasis mine):

"And I want it understood that Christians are citizens wo do want a theocracy, but none-the-less have an equal voice and an equal duty to this secular democracy. . ."

What conclusion should I draw from that other than you, a Christian, want a theocracy?

 

[Foxfyre]

again, what is a church - in response to your self serving assertion the gov't and church are not equally distinguishable.

The Church is the cumulative body of who believe in Jesus the Christ and have accepted him as their personal savior.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think I will rely on the words of the founding fathers. The link I provided was from the Washington and Lee Law Review is based upon documented historical facts and the words of the founding fathers.

https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3506&context=wlulr

So quote the sentences you think pertinent to support your position?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Actually I didn't. I addressed the establishment clause was originally intended to only apply to the federal government and then in 1947 SCOTUS applied to the states.

the pro-separationist and rationalism shift to Evangelical Christianity about the time DeToqueville visited America,


You compartmentalize history too much.
Prior to the revolution about a decade or two Through the turn of the century the Founding Generation was not very religious.

Deism, Enlightenment were up. Church attendance was down. Disestablishment of state churchesl was what the irreligious majority wanted states to do.

This explains the shift from Deism to Evangelical Christianity quite well.

The Separation of Church and State in the United States

"The Separation of Church and State in the United States" published on by Oxford University Press.

oxfordre.com

the separationist narrative runs into difficulties once one considers the nineteenth century. Indeed, the impetus toward achieving a more complete form of disestablishment foundered early in the next century. Attitudes about disengaging religious and temporal realms shifted as natural rights rationalism lost favor to a new Protestant evangelical ethos that came to dominate the nation culturally by the second third of the century. This attitudinal shift affected perspectives toward church-state remlations.

Several factors contributed to this transformation in attitudes. First was the American reaction to the French Revolution and the subsequent decline in deistic thought in the United States. That reaction coincided with the wide-scale outbreak of evangelical revivals after 1800, commonly called the Second Great Awakening. Spurred on by spiritual longing, frontier conditions, and the vacuum left by disestablishment, America entered a period of religious experimentation, what historian Jon Butler has termed a “spiritual hothouse” and what Shakers called a period of religious “democratization.” While many people experimented with heterodox forms of spirituality such as Mormonism, transcendentalism, and Mesmerism, the clear winners were Methodists and Baptists. Church membership tripled, and Protestant evangelicalism quickly became the dominant cultural expression in America, fueled by a post-millennialist eschatology (which taught that the Second Coming of Jesus would occur at the conclusion of a thousand-year golden reign). Society was, in a sense, perfectible, and America would be at the vanguard of bringing about Christ’s Kingdom. To facilitate the Second Coming, evangelical leaders created voluntary organizations designed to reform society by addressing issues such as intemperance, biblical illiteracy, and Sabbath observance.