Seperate but not equal

[irosie91]

Tinmore, this isn't some mosque where you can lie to a bunch of nodding Islamic zombies.

It was Muslims who were practicing apartheid on Jews, and committed genocide in the ancient Jewish community of Hebron and subsequent ethnic cleansing thereof. That much, there is no dispute.

The fact that you keep justifying and blaming others for Muslim savagery and intolerance is typical of your ilk.

Nice dodge.

Are you talking about yourself?

"The Zionist invasion caused the Muslim savagery and genocide"

It's always the Jooos fault. Never the Muslims.

in the latter part of the 19th century----and the early part of the 20th
century-----blacks from southern USA----ie FREED SLAVES---began
migrating north to escape persecution by shit like tinnie in the south---
there were actually shit like tinnie people who attacked these people
and MURDERED them because they considered blacks to be
"INVADING" northern cities-----it is true that tinnie is shit----but he
is not the only example of stinking shit in the world-----Interestinly
enough shit like tinnie blamed that episode on JOOOOS too---some
people said that the blacks were coming to northern cities because
JOOOOOS offered them jobs with better pay than they were getting
from shit like tinnie in the south. The jihadist dogs were afraid
that JOOOOOOS would offer better paying jobs and the jihadist
dogs would lose their slaves------more shit like tinnie

 

[Coyote]

The whole problem can be solved using the ISLAMIC APPROACH---the four holy jewish cities-----Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron can be barred to
muslims in the same way that Mecca and Medina are barred to jews Does aanyone wish to complain that the restrictions placed on jews in medina and
mecca constitute a violation of "international law"?

According to this site, Holy City | Islam | Christian | Judaism | Jerusalem | Mecca | Lhasa | Bethlehem | Varanasi - cities like Jeruselem are holy to all 3 Abrahamic faiths, Bethlehem is primary to the Christian faith and Mecca is only holy to the Muslim faith. Given that Jeruselum is claimed by 3 faiths puts it in a different category than the other cities.

Personally - I think all cities should be open to anyone.

 

[Coyote]

When the Arabs controled said Jewish lands, they certainly practiced aparthied and racism of the worst kind.

First - two wrongs don't make a right.

Second - that was how long ago?

Should Israel be seeking to follow that example and practice apartheid? I think it's better than that.

Third, this is Israel making a wrong committed by Muslims, right. Only to be accused of apartheid.

Israel has two distinct standards for:
Justice
Property rights
Separate bus'
Separate roads
etc.

How is that NOT apartheid? How is that "making a wrong" right?

What have those particular Palestinians done to deserve unequal treatment?

 

[Roudy]

The whole problem can be solved using the ISLAMIC APPROACH---the four holy jewish cities-----Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron can be barred to
muslims in the same way that Mecca and Medina are barred to jews Does aanyone wish to complain that the restrictions placed on jews in medina and
mecca constitute a violation of "international law"?

According to this site, Holy City | Islam | Christian | Judaism | Jerusalem | Mecca | Lhasa | Bethlehem | Varanasi - cities like Jeruselem are holy to all 3 Abrahamic faiths, Bethlehem is primary to the Christian faith and Mecca is only holy to the Muslim faith. Given that Jeruselum is claimed by 3 faiths puts it in a different category than the other cities.

Personally - I think all cities should be open to anyone.

So the Muslims can have their own holy cities which they ban others from. But the Jews can't call a city which has been holy to them before the rise of Islam and Christianity, for thousands of years. And which is open to everyone, in other words, they don't "ban" others from entering or worshiping as they please.

 

[Roudy]

First - two wrongs don't make a right.

Second - that was how long ago?

Should Israel be seeking to follow that example and practice apartheid? I think it's better than that.

Third, this is Israel making a wrong committed by Muslims, right. Only to be accused of apartheid.

Israel has two distinct standards for:
Justice
Property rights
Separate bus'
Separate roads
etc.

How is that NOT apartheid? How is that "making a wrong" right?

What have those particular Palestinians done to deserve unequal treatment?

They are trying to prevent violence on the settlers. It would be apartheid if this was happening inside Israel proper. Which it isn't, because Israel has about two million Israeli Arab Muslims that it provides the same rights as the non Muslims. Which is why I think Israel should just annex this land and provide the Arabs in the West Bank the same high standard of living, as it does inside Israel. The Arabs will never be happy with just Gaza, and there is no way Israel is going to just pull out half a million settlers in the West Bank, nor will it relinquish and inch of Jerusalem, ever.

 

[Coyote]

The whole problem can be solved using the ISLAMIC APPROACH---the four holy jewish cities-----Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron can be barred to
muslims in the same way that Mecca and Medina are barred to jews Does aanyone wish to complain that the restrictions placed on jews in medina and
mecca constitute a violation of "international law"?

According to this site, Holy City | Islam | Christian | Judaism | Jerusalem | Mecca | Lhasa | Bethlehem | Varanasi - cities like Jeruselem are holy to all 3 Abrahamic faiths, Bethlehem is primary to the Christian faith and Mecca is only holy to the Muslim faith. Given that Jeruselum is claimed by 3 faiths puts it in a different category than the other cities.

Personally - I think all cities should be open to anyone.

So the Muslims can have their own holy cities which they ban others from. But the Jews can't call a city which has been holy to them before the rise of Islam and Christianity, for thousands of years. And which is open to everyone, in other words, they don't "ban" others from entering or worshiping as they please.

So, did you read what I wrote?

I think all cities should be open.

However - I think there is also a difference between restricting a city that is extremely holy to multiple faiths from anyone of those faiths and restricting a city that is holy to only one faith. It doesn't matter that one faith had it first - succeeding waves also claim it as a holy site and that should be respected.

 

[Coyote]

Third, this is Israel making a wrong committed by Muslims, right. Only to be accused of apartheid.

Israel has two distinct standards for:
Justice
Property rights
Separate bus'
Separate roads
etc.

How is that NOT apartheid? How is that "making a wrong" right?

What have those particular Palestinians done to deserve unequal treatment?

They are trying to prevent violence on the settlers.

Yet the "settlers" are purpetrating violence on the Palestinians and the Palestinians are forced to roads that are worse, more convoluted, and - in some cases barred to vehicle traffic while the "settlers" have unrestricted highways.

It would be apartheid if this was happening inside Israel proper. Which it isn't, because Israel has about two million Israeli Arab Muslims that it provides the same rights as the non Muslims.

Except they don't.

Look at building and expansion permits:

Jews are usually granted permits. Arabs are almost always denied permits or stonewalled through bureaucracy that bypasses the Jewish communities.

As a result most Arab villages are over crowded and under-served by infrastructure. Arabs are forced to build "illegally". When Jews build illegally they are rarely torn down and, when it becomes big enough, infrastructure gets built. Illegal Arab expansions are routinely bulldozed and seldom if ever provided with infrastructure.

That's just one example.

Which is why I think Israel should just annex this land and provide the Arabs in the West Bank the same high standard of living, as it does inside Israel. The Arabs will never be happy with just Gaza, and there is no way Israel is going to just pull out half a million settlers in the West Bank, nor will it relinquish and inch of Jerusalem, ever.

Gaza is hugely overcrowded and mostly urban. It can not sustain itself as a nation. The Palestinians shouldn't "be happy" or expect to "be happy" with just Gaza when all of the occupied territories were theirs.

I'm just not sure annexing the West Bank is realistic on the one hand and, on the other - I question the equality of Israel's Arab citizens.

 

[Roudy]

According to this site, Holy City | Islam | Christian | Judaism | Jerusalem | Mecca | Lhasa | Bethlehem | Varanasi - cities like Jeruselem are holy to all 3 Abrahamic faiths, Bethlehem is primary to the Christian faith and Mecca is only holy to the Muslim faith. Given that Jeruselum is claimed by 3 faiths puts it in a different category than the other cities.

Personally - I think all cities should be open to anyone.

So the Muslims can have their own holy cities which they ban others from. But the Jews can't call a city which has been holy to them before the rise of Islam and Christianity, for thousands of years. And which is open to everyone, in other words, they don't "ban" others from entering or worshiping as they please.

So, did you read what I wrote?

I think all cities should be open.

However - I think there is also a difference between restricting a city that is extremely holy to multiple faiths from anyone of those faiths and restricting a city that is holy to only one faith. It doesn't matter that one faith had it first - succeeding waves also claim it as a holy site and that should be respected.

I did read what you wrote. Did you understand what I said? Muslims are the ones that close their holy cities to non Muslims, while Jews and Christians don't. The problem is, as long as we ignore, justify, and tolerate Muslim intolerance, nothing will change. Once this cultural issue which is religion based is addressed, we can start moving towards the road to true peace.

 

[Coyote]

I did read what you wrote. Did you understand what I said? Muslims are the ones that close their holy cities to non Muslims, while Jews and Christians don't. The problem is, as long as we ignore, justify, and tolerate Muslim intolerance, nothing will change. Once this cultural issue which is religion based is addressed, we can start moving towards the road to true peace.

I think we can say the same thing in regards to Jewish intolerance and inequality towards it's Arab citizens and the Palestinians don't you? It's ignored, justified and tolerated - over and over in these threads. If you are going to demand accountability from other Arab states (rather than broad brushing all Muslims) - shouldn't you demand it from Israel at the same time?

I also don't see this as just a religious thing - where we must hold all Muslims accountable for what is happening or all Jews responsible for what Israel does.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I did read what you wrote. Did you understand what I said? Muslims are the ones that close their holy cities to non Muslims, while Jews and Christians don't. The problem is, as long as we ignore, justify, and tolerate Muslim intolerance, nothing will change. Once this cultural issue which is religion based is addressed, we can start moving towards the road to true peace.

I think we can say the same thing in regards to Jewish intolerance and inequality towards it's Arab citizens and the Palestinians don't you? It's ignored, justified and tolerated - over and over in these threads. If you are going to demand accountability from other Arab states (rather than broad brushing all Muslims) - shouldn't you demand it from Israel at the same time?

I also don't see this as just a religious thing - where we must hold all Muslims accountable for what is happening or all Jews responsible for what Israel does.

It's time for Muslims to stop getting a free pass for their intolerance. I also think, Coyote, that you have never been to Israel proper, if you think Israeli Arabs don't have rights there. (The West Bank is a different story, I admit.)

 

[Coyote]

I did read what you wrote. Did you understand what I said? Muslims are the ones that close their holy cities to non Muslims, while Jews and Christians don't. The problem is, as long as we ignore, justify, and tolerate Muslim intolerance, nothing will change. Once this cultural issue which is religion based is addressed, we can start moving towards the road to true peace.

I think we can say the same thing in regards to Jewish intolerance and inequality towards it's Arab citizens and the Palestinians don't you? It's ignored, justified and tolerated - over and over in these threads. If you are going to demand accountability from other Arab states (rather than broad brushing all Muslims) - shouldn't you demand it from Israel at the same time?

I also don't see this as just a religious thing - where we must hold all Muslims accountable for what is happening or all Jews responsible for what Israel does.

It's time for Muslims to stop getting a free pass for their intolerance. I also think, Coyote, that you have never been to Israel proper, if you think Israeli Arabs don't have rights there. (The West Bank is a different story, I admit.)

I am not and haven't said the "don't have rights" - I said they are unequal. Should Israel continue to get a free pass?

 

[Roudy]

I did read what you wrote. Did you understand what I said? Muslims are the ones that close their holy cities to non Muslims, while Jews and Christians don't. The problem is, as long as we ignore, justify, and tolerate Muslim intolerance, nothing will change. Once this cultural issue which is religion based is addressed, we can start moving towards the road to true peace.

I think we can say the same thing in regards to Jewish intolerance and inequality towards it's Arab citizens and the Palestinians don't you? It's ignored, justified and tolerated - over and over in these threads. If you are going to demand accountability from other Arab states (rather than broad brushing all Muslims) - shouldn't you demand it from Israel at the same time?

I also don't see this as just a religious thing - where we must hold all Muslims accountable for what is happening or all Jews responsible for what Israel does.

There is no "Jewish intolerance" towards Arabs. The Jews are merely trying to survive as a state while Arabs have only shown a desire to destroy the Jewish state. Israelis generally are very open minded westernized people. Which means you will not find the same religious hatreds, indoctrination, and cultural intolerance towards others that exist in Muslim populations. If you ever go to Israel you will have a difficult time distinguishing it from Europe or the US, other than the language it's hard to tell. The reason I bring this up is you continually put Israeli actions on the same plateau as the Arabs and Palestinians, as though somehow the two are the same or even remotely comparable, they aren't. If they are then by that logic one can compare America's actions to that of al Queda's or Iran's leaders.

Those who usually make these futile comparisons do so out of lack of knowledge and personal experience, or they are anti American or anti Semites. I believe you fall into the first category, you are misinformed.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, that is simply not factual nor true this case.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I think we can say the same thing in regards to Jewish intolerance and inequality towards it's Arab citizens and the Palestinians don't you? It's ignored, justified and tolerated - over and over in these threads. If you are going to demand accountability from other Arab states (rather than broad brushing all Muslims) - shouldn't you demand it from Israel at the same time?

I also don't see this as just a religious thing - where we must hold all Muslims accountable for what is happening or all Jews responsible for what Israel does.

It's time for Muslims to stop getting a free pass for their intolerance. I also think, Coyote, that you have never been to Israel proper, if you think Israeli Arabs don't have rights there. (The West Bank is a different story, I admit.)

I am not and haven't said the "don't have rights" - I said they are unequal. Should Israel continue to get a free pass?

You "are not" what?
Anyway, what do you mean by "unequal"? That they don't have the same job opportunities? My grandmother in Haifa was treated by Arab doctors and nurses. My aunt in Haifa has an Arab hairdresser and housekeeper. My cousin in Hebrew University had many Arab classmates. So I don't agree with your assessment. There is no denying the fact that the fabric in that society is Jewish, though. They might feel a little uncomfortable around Passover-time, like I do here around Christmas-time. But they have 22 Arab countries and 57 Muslim countries, where there are Muslim national holidays. Can't we have just one with Jewish national holidays?

 

[P F Tinmore]

So the Muslims can have their own holy cities which they ban others from. But the Jews can't call a city which has been holy to them before the rise of Islam and Christianity, for thousands of years. And which is open to everyone, in other words, they don't "ban" others from entering or worshiping as they please.

So, did you read what I wrote?

I think all cities should be open.

However - I think there is also a difference between restricting a city that is extremely holy to multiple faiths from anyone of those faiths and restricting a city that is holy to only one faith. It doesn't matter that one faith had it first - succeeding waves also claim it as a holy site and that should be respected.

I did read what you wrote. Did you understand what I said? Muslims are the ones that close their holy cities to non Muslims, while Jews and Christians don't. The problem is, as long as we ignore, justify, and tolerate Muslim intolerance, nothing will change. Once this cultural issue which is religion based is addressed, we can start moving towards the road to true peace.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53vViKeUPcY]34 a Sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube[/ame]

 

[irosie91]

Tinnie is right JEWS SHOULD DECLARE MEDINA ---well----actually
YATHRIB-----a "HOLY CITY" and have the RIGHT TO VISIT IT AT
WILL after all it is fully documented as the site of a genocide of
jews in the ONE TRUE BOOK IN THE UNIVERSE----to wit
THE "NOBLE" KORAN

soon al azhar university will declare paris to be a
HOLY MUSLIM CITY----and bar it to all kaffirin---
tinnnie endorses the idea ENTHUSIASTICALLY

 

[docmauser1]

There's a down side, and an upside - but the real question is, can anything who's incorporates into it's purpose a seperation of races - be a good thing?

Funny so, what race do palistanians belong to?

 

[AVG-JOE]

You are missing the point. Arabs attacked the Jews of Hebron in the 1930's, committing genocide and ethnic cleansing upon a community that had been living there for thousands of years. During this same time in the 1930's, tens of thousands of Arabs invaded Hebron, and changed it's demographics. In other words, the land did not belong to Arabs, nor was it considered Arab lands. All Israel is doing is protecting a Jewish community from further persecution and terrorism (which there have been many against them), and preserving what little is left from the ancient Jewish identity of the city.

The topic of populations is a whole 'nother topic and your argument is a distraction from the issue.

There are two different standards in regards to the treatment of the two main ethnic groups that inhabit this area. Do you think that is "ok"? If it is "ok" - then what makes it different than South Africa's system?

When the Arabs controled said Jewish lands, they certainly practiced aparthied and racism of the worst kind.



Hebron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cave of the Patriarchs continued to remain officially closed to non-Muslims, and reports that entry to the site had been relaxed in 1928 were denied by the Supreme Muslim Council.[142]

Jordanian rule

Although a significant number of people relocated to Jerusalem from Hebron during the Jordanian period,[156] Hebron itself saw a considerable increase in population with 35,000 settling in the town.[157] During this period, signs of the previous Jewish presence in Hebron were removed.
[158]

How's that for apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide, eh?

Excellent example of historic Monkey-on-Monkey apartheid style bullshit!

How does that make use of the technique now acceptable? Is it o.k. now because it's the 'good guys' who're employing it?

 

[AVG-JOE]

It is conquered territory which was captured as a result of Arab aggression, which happens to also be ancient Hebrew lands. The Israelis should just annex the entire West Bank, call it by it's original name prior to 1948, Judeah and Samaria (of ancient Israel), and then accord the Arabs the same rights as those living in Israel proper.

Wouldn't that be demographic suicide?

No, the settlers are mostly orthodox Jews who reproduce at a higher rate than rabbits. LOL

Doesn't matter. ALL the Monkeys reproduce like rabbits. The only way to guarantee the political power of the Jewish minority is a two-state solution with good and sturdy fences.

Even then, the Jews will eventually lose their state to secular Civil Law, just as the Christians did (when was the last time the Vatican dictated the world stage?) and the Muslims will.

The sooner modern education replaces ALL of the ancient stories, the better.

 

[AVG-JOE]

"... My perspective is unique, both as the vice consul for Israel in San Francisco, and as a Bedouin and the highest-ranking Muslim representing Israel in the United States. I was born into a Bedouin tribe in Northern Israel, one of 11 children, and began life as shepherd living in our family tent. I went on to serve in the Israeli border police, and later earned a master's degree in political science from Tel Aviv University before joining the Israel Foreign Ministry. . . ."

"I am a proud Israeli - along with many other non-Jewish Israelis such as Druze, Bahai, Bedouin, Christians and Muslims, who live in one of the most culturally diversified societies and the only true democracy in the Middle East. Like America, Israeli society is far from perfect, but let us deals honestly. By any yardstick you choose - educational opportunity, economic development, women and gay's rights, freedom of speech and assembly, legislative representation - Israel's minorities fare far better than any other country in the Middle East. . . ."

"If Israel were an apartheid state, I would not have been appointed here, nor would I have chosen to take upon myself this duty. There are many Arabs, both within Israel and in the Palestinian territories who have taken great courage to walk the path of peace. You should stand with us, rather than against us."

Ismail Khaldi is the first Bedouin vice consul of Israel and the first high ranking Muslim diplomat in the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Lost in the blur of slogans - SFGate

Also from the article: (emphasis mine)

So, I would like to share the following with organizers of Israel Apartheid week, for those of them who are open to dialogue and not blinded by a hateful ideology:

You are part of the problem, not part of the solution: If you are really idealistic and committed to a better world, stop with the false rhetoric. We need moderate people to come together in good faith to help find the path to relieve the human suffering on both sides of the Israel-Palestinian conflict.
Vilification and false labeling is a blind alley that is unjust and takes us nowhere.

Read more: Lost in the blur of slogans - SFGate

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/284947-pathway-to-peace.html

 

[Coyote]

Wouldn't that be demographic suicide?

No, the settlers are mostly orthodox Jews who reproduce at a higher rate than rabbits. LOL

Doesn't matter. ALL the Monkeys reproduce like rabbits. The only way to guarantee the political power of the Jewish minority is a two-state solution with good and sturdy fences.

Even then, the Jews will eventually lose their state to secular Civil Law, just as the Christians did (when was the last time the Vatican dictated the world stage?) and the Muslims will.

The sooner modern education replaces ALL of the ancient stories, the better.

I read an article, some time back, that was arguing two-state vs one-state solutions. One of the arguments against one-state solution was that of sheer demographics - but the supporting argument was that Israeli society, culture, and it's constitution was entrenched enough and strong enough that it could withstand it and remain a largely secular state which it is.