Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Andylusion]

[

The girl could refuse to marry the boy. Do you just make up stuff not said when you discuss topics?

None. Next dumb question?

THat doesn't happen that often. not when there are Dowries and shit involved.

But you avoid the question. YOu keep arguing that your homophobia is acceptable because the BIble says so.

The Bible also says to stone your neighbors if they work on the Sabbath.

And stone your neighbor's daughter is she isn't a virgin on her wedding night.

So why do you only selectively follow the rules?

1) Because society would brand you a psychopath if you did.
2) Because you are grasping for any excuse to justify your homophobia?

No, I'm not just avoiding your question. I'm ignoring your question completely. Let me spell this out for you again.

Unless you are my pastor, or authority figure in my church, I don't give a crap what you think about the Bible on anything. Your opinion of the Bible, and me, and my faith, all of them have zero value to me.

I don't care what you think the Bible says. I can read it myself thanks.

See, here's the deal. I don't have to, and have intention to, try and justify anything to you. There is only one person I have to justify myself to, and that is G-d Himself. He's given me a book to know what is justified, and what is not, and what you think on the matter, what society thinks on the matter, what anyone anywhere believes on the matter, is completely irrelevant to me, and G-d.

The reason I am on this particular thread, is because this thread is about other people imposing their views, on my convictions.

I am telling you in no uncertain terms, that I am going to follow my convictions and Biblical beliefs, whether you agree with it, support it, or call it 'homophobia' or not.

Joe: "well then you are a psychopath!"

Fine with me. Still don't care. I'm going to follow my convictions, with or without your approval.

Joe: "well you are just looking for an excuse to...."

Fine, still don't care. I'm going to follow my convictions with or without your approval.

Joe: "well the Bible says..."

I'm sorry, I don't need your help in reading the Bible. I have several, and they all say the same thing. If that were not enough, there is a more than a few translations available online, and they all say the same thing.

When I need your opinion of what my Bible says, I'll let you know. Until then you can assume your opinion of the Bible says is not needed, nor really wanted, and most certainly will be ignored.

I'm not here to debate what my Bible says. It's not up for debate, and I'm not here to discuss it with you. I'm simply TELLING you what I'm going to do and that you are not going to stop me.

That's all there is to it. Any other questions?

 

[Seawytch]

[



The girl could refuse to marry the boy. Do you just make up stuff not said when you discuss topics?



None. Next dumb question?

THat doesn't happen that often. not when there are Dowries and shit involved.



But you avoid the question. YOu keep arguing that your homophobia is acceptable because the BIble says so.



The Bible also says to stone your neighbors if they work on the Sabbath.



And stone your neighbor's daughter is she isn't a virgin on her wedding night.



So why do you only selectively follow the rules?



1) Because society would brand you a psychopath if you did.

2) Because you are grasping for any excuse to justify your homophobia?

No, I'm not just avoiding your question. I'm ignoring your question completely. Let me spell this out for you again.



Unless you are my pastor, or authority figure in my church, I don't give a crap what you think about the Bible on anything. Your opinion of the Bible, and me, and my faith, all of them have zero value to me.



I don't care what you think the Bible says. I can read it myself thanks.



See, here's the deal. I don't have to, and have intention to, try and justify anything to you. There is only one person I have to justify myself to, and that is G-d Himself. He's given me a book to know what is justified, and what is not, and what you think on the matter, what society thinks on the matter, what anyone anywhere believes on the matter, is completely irrelevant to me, and G-d.



The reason I am on this particular thread, is because this thread is about other people imposing their views, on my convictions.

Then your reason for "being here" is false. Nobody is doing that. Your church can't be forced to do anything (by the government) that violates the tenants of their faith.

 

[Gadawg73]

OK so now we are hearing The Bible and what is says is out.
So what we are left with is the law says nothing on gay marriage so it shall be legal.

 

[Gadawg73]

That is the Apostles and the spread of Christianity described in Luke and Acts is incomplete. It speaks of a newly formed harmonious church which is quite at odds with Paul's letters as it omits many important events such as the deaths of Peter and Paul.
Fact is they WERE Jews and the norm of the day was Old Jewish Law for over 100 years as even Acts and Luke which constitute over 1/4 of the New Testament was not written until around 90 AD.

So you are arguing for gutting the New Testament/Christanity? Islam too I suppose?

Good luck with your Agenda...youre gonna need it!

How could I continue to school you on The Bible and what it says if I was for "arguing for gutting the New Testament"?

 

[Andylusion]

That is the Apostles and the spread of Christianity described in Luke and Acts is incomplete. It speaks of a newly formed harmonious church which is quite at odds with Paul's letters as it omits many important events such as the deaths of Peter and Paul.
Fact is they WERE Jews and the norm of the day was Old Jewish Law for over 100 years as even Acts and Luke which constitute over 1/4 of the New Testament was not written until around 90 AD.

So you are arguing for gutting the New Testament/Christanity? Islam too I suppose?

Good luck with your Agenda...youre gonna need it!

How could I continue to school you on The Bible and what it says if I was for "arguing for gutting the New Testament"?

You remind me of Matthew 15:14. Which is why I don't care what you think about the Bible.

 

[Smilebong]

The followers of Jesus, ALL Jews, still practiced old Jewish law which is all the Old Testament, after Jesus' death.Eating a ham sandwich is a sin and you must repent because Jude says so.
See how silly your arguments are?
You pick and choose which parts of the Bible you want to go by and which ones you do not like to go by.
Because you are a hypocrit.
BTW, read your Bible because what I get out of Jude is that Jude is condemning the lust that humans may have for angels and that is a sin as well as having or attempting to have sex with the angels.
What is most interesting in the King James translations, which only a fool believes were "inspired by God" because I do not believe God is a dumb ass.
The word heteras in Greek means different from which the English word heterosexual comes from. Homois means same as homosexual.
In Greek times the Greeks did not use the word homoios in any variation to describe a homosexual or homosexuals. The Greek word meant different only and had no sexuality meaning. Same as heteras
No where in the Greek language do those words mean homosexual or heterosexual. That is a derivative taken in the English language.

Not true. The New Testament is a time of transition. If you read the book of Acts, it describes in great detail what happened as they went from a people who obeyed the OT law to a people for whom it was abolished. There is still moral truth, and every part of the OT code that still applies is restated in the NT

That is the Apostles and the spread of Christianity described in Luke and Acts is incomplete. It speaks of a newly formed harmonious church which is quite at odds with Paul's letters as it omits many important events such as the deaths of Peter and Paul.
Fact is they WERE Jews and the norm of the day was Old Jewish Law for over 100 years as even Acts and Luke which constitute over 1/4 of the New Testament was not written until around 90 AD.

What are you talking about? The fact is that it was a TRANSITION TIME. THEY MOVED FROM OT LAW KEEPING JEWS TO NON LAW KEEPING CHRISTIANS. Period. Doesn't matter when it was written. It is not fiction. Has never been accepted by Historical authorities, even secular, as fiction.

 

[Gadawg73]

Not true. The New Testament is a time of transition. If you read the book of Acts, it describes in great detail what happened as they went from a people who obeyed the OT law to a people for whom it was abolished. There is still moral truth, and every part of the OT code that still applies is restated in the NT

That is the Apostles and the spread of Christianity described in Luke and Acts is incomplete. It speaks of a newly formed harmonious church which is quite at odds with Paul's letters as it omits many important events such as the deaths of Peter and Paul.
Fact is they WERE Jews and the norm of the day was Old Jewish Law for over 100 years as even Acts and Luke which constitute over 1/4 of the New Testament was not written until around 90 AD.

What are you talking about? The fact is that it was a TRANSITION TIME. THEY MOVED FROM OT LAW KEEPING JEWS TO NON LAW KEEPING CHRISTIANS. Period. Doesn't matter when it was written. It is not fiction. Has never been accepted by Historical authorities, even secular, as fiction.

Wrong, not according to the letters of Peter and Paul.
Go read them and see for yourself.
The only "transition" there was was not to any form of Christianity. It was to conform with ROMAN LAW. And as a result of that most Roman leaders were flexible in their standards and allowed that flexibility to allow Jewish leaders to follow their religious standards. JEWISH standards.
Yes, it is all historical fact but you ain't posting the facts.

 

[Smilebong]

That is the Apostles and the spread of Christianity described in Luke and Acts is incomplete. It speaks of a newly formed harmonious church which is quite at odds with Paul's letters as it omits many important events such as the deaths of Peter and Paul.
Fact is they WERE Jews and the norm of the day was Old Jewish Law for over 100 years as even Acts and Luke which constitute over 1/4 of the New Testament was not written until around 90 AD.

What are you talking about? The fact is that it was a TRANSITION TIME. THEY MOVED FROM OT LAW KEEPING JEWS TO NON LAW KEEPING CHRISTIANS. Period. Doesn't matter when it was written. It is not fiction. Has never been accepted by Historical authorities, even secular, as fiction.

Wrong, not according to the letters of Peter and Paul.
Go read them and see for yourself.
The only "transition" there was was not to any form of Christianity. It was to conform with ROMAN LAW. And as a result of that most Roman leaders were flexible in their standards and allowed that flexibility to allow Jewish leaders to follow their religious standards. JEWISH standards.
Yes, it is all historical fact but you ain't posting the facts.

I have read it and studied it over and over for 30 years. It was a transition. the letter to the Hebrews even lays it out when it says that the Old was laid aside.

 

[Gadawg73]

What are you talking about? The fact is that it was a TRANSITION TIME. THEY MOVED FROM OT LAW KEEPING JEWS TO NON LAW KEEPING CHRISTIANS. Period. Doesn't matter when it was written. It is not fiction. Has never been accepted by Historical authorities, even secular, as fiction.

Wrong, not according to the letters of Peter and Paul.
Go read them and see for yourself.
The only "transition" there was was not to any form of Christianity. It was to conform with ROMAN LAW. And as a result of that most Roman leaders were flexible in their standards and allowed that flexibility to allow Jewish leaders to follow their religious standards. JEWISH standards.
Yes, it is all historical fact but you ain't posting the facts.

I have read it and studied it over and over for 30 years. It was a transition. the letter to the Hebrews even lays it out when it says that the Old was laid aside.

Dude, the Letter to the Hebrews was written to JEWISH CHRISTIANS who lived in Jerusalem ONLY. It's purpose was to tell the CHRISTIANS to persevere under the persecution they were getting. Old Jewish law remained and strong and for many centuries there were those that believed The Letter did not belong in Christian canon because of historical fact of the strong Jewish authority over the citizens in those times under Roman rule. Only in around the 4th century did it become part of and included in as the 14th letter of Paul. Most Hebrew scholars do not believe it is the work of Paul.

 

[GISMYS]

Wrong, not according to the letters of Peter and Paul.
Go read them and see for yourself.
The only "transition" there was was not to any form of Christianity. It was to conform with ROMAN LAW. And as a result of that most Roman leaders were flexible in their standards and allowed that flexibility to allow Jewish leaders to follow their religious standards. JEWISH standards.
Yes, it is all historical fact but you ain't posting the facts.

I have read it and studied it over and over for 30 years. It was a transition. the letter to the Hebrews even lays it out when it says that the Old was laid aside.

Dude, the Letter to the Hebrews was written to JEWISH CHRISTIANS who lived in Jerusalem ONLY. It's purpose was to tell the CHRISTIANS to persevere under the persecution they were getting. Old Jewish law remained and strong and for many centuries there were those that believed The Letter did not belong in Christian canon because of historical fact of the strong Jewish authority over the citizens in those times under Roman rule. Only in around the 4th century did it become part of and included in as the 14th letter of Paul. Most Hebrew scholars do not believe it is the work of Paul.

SO you would try to deny the TRUTH OF GOD'S INSPIRED(GOD BREATHED) WORD??? NOT VERY SMART!

 

[JoeB131]

[

No, I'm not just avoiding your question. I'm ignoring your question completely. Let me spell this out for you again.

Unless you are my pastor, or authority figure in my church, I don't give a crap what you think about the Bible on anything. Your opinion of the Bible, and me, and my faith, all of them have zero value to me.

I don't care what you think the Bible says. I can read it myself thanks.

But the question becomes are you. You see, i have read the bible, that's why I'm an atheist. Because the contradictions and lapses in logic were fairly apparent to me at a pretty early age.

A God that drowns babies isn't worthy of anyone's worship.

[
The reason I am on this particular thread, is because this thread is about other people imposing their views, on my convictions.

I am telling you in no uncertain terms, that I am going to follow my convictions and Biblical beliefs, whether you agree with it, support it, or call it 'homophobia' or not.

And if you are willing to pay the fines and suffer the economic consequences, I'm fine with that.

I think the real problem with folks like you is that you look at the racist groups like the Klan who used to march in the millions and now they hide because their behavior isn't tolerated in polite society.

[
I'm not here to debate what my Bible says. It's not up for debate, and I'm not here to discuss it with you. I'm simply TELLING you what I'm going to do and that you are not going to stop me.

That's all there is to it. Any other questions?

Yeah a couple.

What happens when your Pastor decides to ignore the rules on gays like he ignores the rules on stonings? are you going to say, "Gee, Pastor Bob, I was wrong all along. Thanks for setting me straight."

My guess is you'll find another church.

 

[JoeB131]

Here's the thing. Churches follow public opinion.

When I was growing up in the 1970's, my cousin moved in with her boyfriend without getting married after she got knocked up. Mostly, I think she wanted to get the hell away from my Aunt. (This would be the Aunt we all suspect today was a Lesbian who pretended to be straight because the Church Said so.)

Well, back in the 1970's, the Church was really, really upset about this kind of thing.

Now, flash foward to the 1990's. One of my Army buddies was about to get married, and during the planning stages someone said to the Priest, "But they're already living together!" The Priest just shrugged his shoulders and said, "I'd be more surprised if they weren't."

I don't think I've been at a wedding since where the couples weren't already cohabiting. And you know what, I think this is ACTUALLY a good thing. People find out if they are compatible before they put their parents thousands of dollars into hock.

Societal norms change, and the churches change with them.

 

[Taz]

Churches shouldn't be allowed to get away with pedophilia if they don't accept gay marriage.

 

[GISMYS]

[

No, I'm not just avoiding your question. I'm ignoring your question completely. Let me spell this out for you again.

Unless you are my pastor, or authority figure in my church, I don't give a crap what you think about the Bible on anything. Your opinion of the Bible, and me, and my faith, all of them have zero value to me.

I don't care what you think the Bible says. I can read it myself thanks.

But the question becomes are you. You see, i have read the bible, that's why I'm an atheist. Because the contradictions and lapses in logic were fairly apparent to me at a pretty early age.

A God that drowns babies isn't worthy of anyone's worship.

[
The reason I am on this particular thread, is because this thread is about other people imposing their views, on my convictions.

I am telling you in no uncertain terms, that I am going to follow my convictions and Biblical beliefs, whether you agree with it, support it, or call it 'homophobia' or not.

And if you are willing to pay the fines and suffer the economic consequences, I'm fine with that.

I think the real problem with folks like you is that you look at the racist groups like the Klan who used to march in the millions and now they hide because their behavior isn't tolerated in polite society.

[
I'm not here to debate what my Bible says. It's not up for debate, and I'm not here to discuss it with you. I'm simply TELLING you what I'm going to do and that you are not going to stop me.

That's all there is to it. Any other questions?

Yeah a couple.

What happens when your Pastor decides to ignore the rules on gays like he ignores the rules on stonings? are you going to say, "Gee, Pastor Bob, I was wrong all along. Thanks for setting me straight."

My guess is you'll find another church.

A God that drowns babies isn't worthy of anyone's worship?????? THINK!!! HAD THOSE BABIES LIVED THEY WOULD BE IN HELL TODAY. BUT BECAUSE OF GOD'S MERCY THOSE BABIES ARE IN HEAVEN TODAY!!! GOD IS OUTSIDE TIME AND sees all our lives from beginning to end today!!

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

That is the Apostles and the spread of Christianity described in Luke and Acts is incomplete. It speaks of a newly formed harmonious church which is quite at odds with Paul's letters as it omits many important events such as the deaths of Peter and Paul.
Fact is they WERE Jews and the norm of the day was Old Jewish Law for over 100 years as even Acts and Luke which constitute over 1/4 of the New Testament was not written until around 90 AD.

2/3 of the New Testament was written by Paul to the various churches he established (who weren't Jewish or familiar with the life of Jesus until they heard the message and testimony of Paul). Those letters guided them through the problems each early "church" was facing, and focusing on teachings learned through the life of Jesus. Paul died in a Roman prison. What purpose would it serve to put all of his writings and focus solely on his death and suffering? If you spending your time focusing on your own problems, then maybe you need to find something else to focus your attention on.

 

[JoeB131]

[

A God that drowns babies isn't worthy of anyone's worship?????? THINK!!! HAD THOSE BABIES LIVED THEY WOULD BE IN HELL TODAY. BUT BECAUSE OF GOD'S MERCY THOSE BABIES ARE IN HEAVEN TODAY!!! GOD IS OUTSIDE TIME AND sees all our lives from beginning to end today!!

That's nice and all, but it raises questions.

If GOd is outside time, you know, kind of like Doctor Who, then he already knows what I'm going to do before I do. If he lets me do something horrible, anyway, doesn't that make him more at fault than me, eh?

 

[GISMYS]

[

A God that drowns babies isn't worthy of anyone's worship?????? THINK!!! HAD THOSE BABIES LIVED THEY WOULD BE IN HELL TODAY. BUT BECAUSE OF GOD'S MERCY THOSE BABIES ARE IN HEAVEN TODAY!!! GOD IS OUTSIDE TIME AND sees all our lives from beginning to end today!!

That's nice and all, but it raises questions.

If GOd is outside time, you know, kind of like Doctor Who, then he already knows what I'm going to do before I do. If he lets me do something horrible, anyway, doesn't that make him more at fault than me, eh?

GOD DID NOT CREATE ROBOTS!!! YOU ARE FREE TO DO GOOD OR EVIL,RIGHT OR WRONG BUT YOU cannot then try to blame GOD!!

 

[JoeB131]

[

A God that drowns babies isn't worthy of anyone's worship?????? THINK!!! HAD THOSE BABIES LIVED THEY WOULD BE IN HELL TODAY. BUT BECAUSE OF GOD'S MERCY THOSE BABIES ARE IN HEAVEN TODAY!!! GOD IS OUTSIDE TIME AND sees all our lives from beginning to end today!!

That's nice and all, but it raises questions.

If GOd is outside time, you know, kind of like Doctor Who, then he already knows what I'm going to do before I do. If he lets me do something horrible, anyway, doesn't that make him more at fault than me, eh?

GOD DID NOT CREATE ROBOTS!!! YOU ARE FREE TO DO GOOD OR EVIL,RIGHT OR WRONG BUT YOU cannot then try to blame GOD!!

I don't think God exists. But if he did, he would not be the kind of evil prick who drowns babies and condemns Ann Frank to hell (for not believing in Jesus) as he sends Hitler to (for Burning Ann and 5,999,999 other Jews.) Because honestly, I refuse to believe the universe is that badly designed.

 

[GISMYS]

SO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE BAD IF HITLER WAS KILLED AS A BABY????????????? you cannot match your peanut brain against ALMIGHTY GOD!!

 

[JoeB131]

SO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE BAD IF HITLER WAS KILLED AS A BABY????????????? you cannot match your peanut brain against ALMIGHTY GOD!!

Hard to say. Here's the problem with that.

Hitler had 80 million co-conspirators- namely the German nation. Millions in other countries, too. I think if you kill Hitler as a baby, someone else does the same thing. Maybe someone more competent.

The problem with Hitler was that he could pick up the Bible and Martin Luther and screech his anti-Semitic shit and have a lot of support scriptural.