Should Jerusalem be made an international city?

[Kondor3]

Are you implying they should be put out of their misery?

I am saying that they are stacked 50-deep on top of a few dozen postage-stamp -sized pieces of remaining land and that it is only a matter of a couple of decades before the last scraps of the West bank will be annexed and assimilated and its former residents expelled from Israel for Lebanon or Jordan or wherever else they would like to live as a consolation prize. That's been underway for decades already, the pace is accelerating, they're in the end-stages already, and a map will tell you that we're getting close to Project Completion Day.

 

[Kondor3]

The Palestinians might as well abandon an independent state and just call for one nation between the river and the sea.

It will be a short, vicious, bloody war if it comes, and it will not end the way you hope. Far better to accept a pay-off from the Israeli government, pack up, move someplace else, build a new life for their families, and to re-learn the meaning of happiness, elsewhere.

 

[Hyrcanus]

I am saying that they are stacked 50-deep on top of a few dozen postage-stamp -sized pieces of remaining land and that it is only a matter of a couple of decades before the last scraps of the West bank will be annexed and assimilated and its former residents expelled from Israel for Lebanon or Jordan or wherever else they would like to live as a consolation prize. That's been underway for decades already, the pace is accelerating, they're in the end-stages already, and a map will tell you that we're getting close to Project Completion Day.

Israel wouldn't DARE expel the Palestinians to another state.

They would reap the wrath of the international community if they did.

They would lose ALL tourism, ALL trade, and ALL diplomatic support.

And then they would whine about how unfairly persecuted and hated they are.

 

[Hyrcanus]

It will be a short, vicious, bloody war if it comes, and it will not end the way you hope. Far better to accept a pay-off from the Israeli government, pack up, move someplace else, build a new life for their families, and to re-learn the meaning of happiness, elsewhere.

There would be no war if the Palestinians dissolve the Palestine Authority and call for Israel to annex the West Bank.

Isn't that the Israelis dream? To annex the entire West Bank? Well, that dream may be their only option in a few years.

And no, unlike the Jewish refugees from the Muslim world and Germany, the Palestinians cannot be bought. Their pride and dignity has no price tag.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Israel wouldn't DARE expel the Palestinians to another state. They would reap the wrath of the international community if they did. They would lose ALL tourism, ALL trade, and ALL diplomatic support. And then they would whine about how unfairly persecuted and hated they are.

Yer a funny guy...

The sad (for you) truth of the matter is, that the world would forget all about it at the speed of light, and breath a sigh of relief that we don't have to listen to their $hit year-in-year-out any longer, once they've been permanently dispersed...

 

[toastman]

The 2000 proposal (Camp David summit) would have given the Palestinians 92% of the West Bank . They would get 75% right away and the rest over the next decade.

Olmerts deal was incredibly generous, and if you or any other pro - Palestinian think a better offer will be proposed, you will be sorely dissapointed.
The '67 border will never happen
Right of return will never happen.
The sooner people can accept this, the sooner we can move on !

The 2000 offer would have given the Palestinians 75% of the West Bank for the following 25 years.

Then maybe, possibly, the Israelis would withdraw from a further 17% of the West Bank.

Sorry, but that was totally unacceptable.

Olmert's deal was lovely, but he had no power nor authority to implement it.

Had the Palestinians accepted it, the Israelis would have clearly rejected its legitimacy due to Olmert's scandal and upcoming indictments.

10 years, not 25

Either way, to the victor go the spoils. In other words, Israel will dictate the terms of a peace treaty, not the Palestinians

 

[Hyrcanus]

10 years, not 25

Either way, to the victor go the spoils. In other words, Israel will dictate the terms of a peace treaty, not the Palestinians

It was 10 to 25 years, so lets split it halfway and call it 17 years.

75% of the West Bank for 17 years? That was a crap offer and Arafat was right to refuse it.

Look, Israel can either offer the Palestinians a good deal with at least 95% of the West Bank and a chunck of EJ, or they can annex the West Bank and make the Palestinians fellow citizens.

Those are the choices.

 

[toastman]

10 years, not 25

Either way, to the victor go the spoils. In other words, Israel will dictate the terms of a peace treaty, not the Palestinians

It was 10 to 25 years, so lets split it halfway and call it 17 years.

75% of the West Bank for 17 years? That was a crap offer and Arafat was right to refuse it.

Look, Israel can either offer the Palestinians a good deal with at least 95% of the West Bank and a chunck of EJ, or they can annex the West Bank and make the Palestinians fellow citizens.

Those are the choices.

NO, it was 10 years.

 

[toastman]

Whoops, you're right, it was 10-25 years ..my bad

 

[Kondor3]

"...There would be no war if the Palestinians dissolve the Palestine Authority and call for Israel to annex the West Bank..."

That will only make the task of ejecting them from the country that much easier.

"...Isn't that the Israelis dream? To annex the entire West Bank? Well, that dream may be their only option in a few years..."

I'm sure that will be fine with them, as soon as they've ejected the old residents and moved-in their own people as the new residents.

"...And no, unlike the Jewish refugees from the Muslim world and Germany, the Palestinians cannot be bought..."

Well, they can always reject the offer of money, on the way out the door. Up to them. Somehow, I think most of 'em will take the money. It's better than an empty wallet, when setting up in a new country, to make a new life.

"...Their pride and dignity has no price tag."

A fine sentiment, I'm sure.

Still, it would be interesting to see who took the money, rather than arriving in a new country with empty pockets, and at a disadvantage from Day One of their new lives.

The Palestinians are not known for intelligent decision-making... even by their few friends... so, I would not be surprised at sizable numbers of Declines or Rejections... but I don't think it will be an overwhelming percentage, when show-time comes.

 

[Hyrcanus]

That will only make the task of ejecting them from the country that much easier....

...Well, they can always reject the offer of money, on the way out the door....

If the Israelis gave the Palestinians of the West Bank an offer of money to leave the West Bank, not one single person would accept that offer.

NO ONE.

And if the Israelis then went ahead and attempted to force the Palestinians of the West Bank to leave, Israel would be destroyed.

Why? Because the Arab world would simply not tolerate such an action. Nuclear weapons or not, the Arab world would step up and defend their brothers in the West Bank.

And Russia, the EU, the United States, NATO, the UN, would simply not allow Israel to engage in such an action.

Even planning such an action would bring international condemnation.

Such an act or even planning such an act, would be truly suicidal for Israel.

 

[Kondor3]

That will only make the task of ejecting them from the country that much easier....

...Well, they can always reject the offer of money, on the way out the door....

If the Israelis gave the Palestinians of the West Bank an offer of money to leave the West Bank, not one single person would accept that offer. NO ONE.

Then, under such a scenario, they would arrive at their new homes that much the poorer.

As I've said, the Palestinians are not reknowned for intelligent decision-making.

"...And if the Israelis then went ahead and attempted to force the Palestinians of the West Bank to leave, Israel would be destroyed..."

Doubtful.

"...Why? Because the Arab world would simply not tolerate such an action. Nuclear weapons or not, the Arab world would step up and defend their brothers in the West Bank..."

Sure.

Because the Arab World has done SUCH a good job of defending their brothers in the West Bank over the course of the last 65 years, haven't they?

1948... 1967... 1973... bahhhhh, humbug.

You're threatening the Israelis with a toothless paper tiger.

"...And Russia, the EU, the United States, NATO, the UN, would simply not allow Israel to engage in such an action..."

Much of the rest of the world would be salivating at the prospect of an end to this decades-old standoff and would not lift a finger to stop the Israelis from kicking the West Bank folk out of the country altogether, so long as they don't kill 'em, and especially if the Israelis pay for transport for the displaced Palestinians and pay for new homes and wargeld and do it piecemeal but at a fairly rapid pace nevertheless.

As to boycotts, etc. - once The Change becomes a fait accompli, there will not be much point in sustaining a boycott for long.

Business is business, and business will continue, or resume after a brief intermission, have no doubt of that.

"...Even planning such an action would bring international condemnation..."

The so-called 'international community' has been one-sidedly condemning Israel for this and that and the other thing since 1948.

The Israelis would probably use the Official Notices of International Condemnation to supplement their existing supply of toilet paper.

"...Such an act or even planning such an act, would be truly suicidal for Israel."

Sure.

How-in-the-hell do you think that map of Palestinian Land Losses got to where it's at now? Where was your vaunted Arab Brotherhood while all that was unfolding?

Where was your vaunted International Community and the US and Russia and the EU and NATO and the like while all that was going on?

It's a pretty tale, of course, but it bears very little resemblance to the reality of what is already happening towards that goal; an especially ironic state of affairs now, given how close we are to realizing such an annexation and pushing-away of the Palestinian population.

When you've tried talking for years and the other side does nothing but lob rockets at you and suicide-bomb your people, you stop caring about such nicities as International Opinion.

All of this, too, is mere speculation, but it is the logical outcome of what has been unfolding before us for years - a state of affairs that pro-Palestinian sympathizers delude themselves into believing is unlikely to materialize.

 

[MaryL]

I would support such a thing if we had a working example of such a city now. How about we internationalize MECCA because, I don't know, it's a nice thing to do and would show solidarity with other religions and would fit nicely into popular idealism? No? That won't work. In all fairness, why not ask that Mecca and Medina become open cities TOO?

 

[Hyrcanus]

Suggesting that the Israelis force the Palestinians into Jordan, Syria, or Saudi Arabia is suggesting Israel commit suicide.

If they were somehow able to conduct such an action, they would face total and overwhelming diplomatic and economic sanctions from the world community.

Israel would finally become the pariah and isolated state that they make believe exists today.

And they would of course whine about how they are being unfairly persecuted.

 

[pbel]

Suggesting that the Israelis force the Palestinians into Jordan, Syria, or Saudi Arabia is suggesting Israel commit suicide.

If they were somehow able to conduct such an action, they would face total and overwhelming diplomatic and economic sanctions from the world community.

Israel would finally become the pariah and isolated state that they make believe exists today.

And they would of course whine about how they are being unfairly persecuted.

I have read studies that show that if all 29 members of the Arab League attacked at once, Israel would be over-run in a conventional war...similarly Israel can-not stop the nuclear aspirations of the ME...even Kaddafi had Nuclear material, and I bet they all do.

Its suicide, for Israel to keep this conflict and animosity going.

 

[toastman]

Suggesting that the Israelis force the Palestinians into Jordan, Syria, or Saudi Arabia is suggesting Israel commit suicide.

If they were somehow able to conduct such an action, they would face total and overwhelming diplomatic and economic sanctions from the world community.

Israel would finally become the pariah and isolated state that they make believe exists today.

And they would of course whine about how they are being unfairly persecuted.

I have read studies that show that if all 29 members of the Arab League attacked at once, Israel would be over-run in a conventional war...similarly Israel can-not stop the nuclear aspirations of the ME...even Kaddafi had Nuclear material, and I bet they all do.

Its suicide, for Israel to keep this conflict and animosity going.

Actually, it would be suicide for those states to attack Israel at once.

 

[Kondor3]

Actually, it would be suicide for those states to attack Israel at once.

Separately or together, makes no difference; the General Staff of most of those national armies would piss their pants if ordered to attack Israel. They aren't going to do diddly-squat.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Actually, it would be suicide for those states to attack Israel at once.
Separately or together, makes no difference; the General Staff of most of those national armies would piss their pants if ordered to attack Israel. They aren't going to do diddly-squat.

Go ahead, try to deport the Palestinians.

watch the blood flow through the streets of Israel.

watch all diplomatic, economic, and defense relations vanish.

yeah, that's really looking out for Israel's interests.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Go ahead, try to deport the Palestinians..."

Hold your horses... look at the map... it's-a-comin'...

 

[Hyrcanus]

Hold your horses... look at the map... it's-a-comin'...

No, its not coming.

Israelis aren't that stupid, suicidal, and masochistic.