Should Jerusalem be made an international city?

[Kondor3]

"...No, its not coming..."

Tick... tick... tick...

 

[Hyrcanus]

Tick... tick... tick...

Sounds like the ticking time bomb of the growing population of the Palestinians.

Eventually they will outnumber the Jews.

Tick...tick...tick...

 

[Kondor3]

Tick... tick... tick...

Sounds like the ticking time bomb of the growing population of the Palestinians.

Eventually they will outnumber the Jews.

Tick...tick...tick...

Oh, there's no doubt that they'll eventually outnumber the Jews...

It's just that - by the time they do - they'll be scattered between Lebanon and Jordan and Syria and the like, and no longer living within Israeli borders - disputed or otherwise.

 

[Hyrcanus]

It's just that - by the time they do - they'll be scattered between Lebanon and Jordan and Syria and the like, and no longer living within Israeli borders - disputed or otherwise.

And how's that gonna happen?

They gonna load millions of Palestinians onto stuffed cattle cars and ship them "to the East"?

 

[Kondor3]

It's just that - by the time they do - they'll be scattered between Lebanon and Jordan and Syria and the like, and no longer living within Israeli borders - disputed or otherwise.

And how's that gonna happen?

They gonna load millions of Palestinians onto stuffed cattle cars and ship them "to the East"?

You haven't been paying attention... eminent domain... condemning property... paying-off the residents... escorting them across the border... that worked for England and Spain when they expelled the Jews... it'll work again here, I'm sure. Then again, the Israelis don't need me to tell them how to complete their decades-long goal of capturing the rest of the land that is to comprise Eretz Yisrael...

 

[pbel]

It's just that - by the time they do - they'll be scattered between Lebanon and Jordan and Syria and the like, and no longer living within Israeli borders - disputed or otherwise.

And how's that gonna happen?

They gonna load millions of Palestinians onto stuffed cattle cars and ship them "to the East"?

You haven't been paying attention... eminent domain... condemning property... paying-off the residents... escorting them across the border... that worked for England and Spain when they expelled the Jews... it'll work again here, I'm sure. Then again, the Israelis don't need me to tell them how to complete their decades-long goal of capturing the rest of the land that is to comprise Eretz Yisrael...

Eminent Domain is used to take land not people...Keep saying Heil, and the world will flock to their aid!

 

[Kondor3]

"...Eminent Domain is used to take land not people..."

Yeppers... take the land, then, suddenly, the people on it need to be relocated; consequently, the payoffs and shuttles to the border.

"...Keep saying Heil, and the world will flock to their aid!"

Given that they have been suicide-bombing and mass-rocketing civilians for decades, as well as lashing-out at outsiders, I don't think there's going to be a stampede to rush to their aid.

As to that Godwinian nonsense, well... tell that to the ethnic Germans in East Prussia or the Sudetenland after WWII, under Allied control, or tell that to the Indians and Pakistanis as they shifted populations at the end British rule, or scores of other population shifts, both voluntary and involuntary, that have occurred throughout history and within living memory, many of which occurred without connection to Nazi-like behaviors or labeling...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer

...or, for that matter, tell that to the Jews expelled systematically and en masse and by increments, in various Muslim-Arab countries within living memory...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

The difference in a case like this being Compensation (Wergeld) for the Losers rather than just a swift kick in the ass on the way out the door...

Frankly, if juggling 3 or 4 million troublesome Palestinians will stop this incessant West Bank and Gaza bull$hit, the world-at-large will probably wink at it rather than actually doing anything about it...

Carve-off Southern Lebanon and call it New Palestine, and give it to those displaced Palestinians. Lebanon is a failed state and a conduit for Syrian interests so the Southern Section won't be missed much. The Muslims have done a good job of driving-off the Lebanese Christians (thus, guilty of the same thing) and have parked plenty of Palestinians (including Hezbollah) there in recent times, so they have all this newly-cleared space in which to park the Palestinian newcomers. It will also give the Palestinians enough contiguous land-mass and access to water and the sea, in order to actually make a go of it, and try to create and sustain a viable state, rather than the hopeless task of trying to piece-together a crazy-quilt patchwork of postage-stamp -sized scraps of disconnected land.

Hell, inside of a couple of generations after any such population shift, the Palestinians and Jews might even learn how to coexist peacefully; there being no further active points of contention, sufficient to draw blood.

It's a win-win for everybody... but it'll never happen... the Palestinians (collectively, as a body politic) aren't smart enough to team-up with Israel, Lebanon, the UN, etc., in order to make that happen, so they'll continue to rot and fester in-place until they implode.

 

[pbel]

"...Eminent Domain is used to take land not people..."

Yeppers... take the land, then, suddenly, the people on it need to be relocated; consequently, the payoffs and shuttles to the border.

"...Keep saying Heil, and the world will flock to their aid!"

Given that they have been suicide-bombing and mass-rocketing civilians for decades, as well as lashing-out at outsiders, I don't think there's going to be a stampede to rush to their aid.

As to that Godwinian nonsense, well... tell that to the ethnic Germans in East Prussia or the Sudetenland after WWII, under Allied control, or tell that to the Indians and Pakistanis as they shifted populations at the end British rule, or scores of other population shifts, both voluntary and involuntary, that have occurred throughout history and within living memory, many of which occurred without connection to Nazi-like behaviors or labeling...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer

...or, for that matter, tell that to the Jews expelled systematically and en masse and by increments, in various Muslim-Arab countries within living memory...

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference in a case like this being Compensation (Wergeld) for the Losers rather than just a swift kick in the ass on the way out the door...

Frankly, if juggling 3 or 4 million troublesome Palestinians will stop this incessant West Bank and Gaza bull$hit, the world-at-large will probably wink at it rather than actually doing anything about it...

Carve-off Southern Lebanon and call it New Palestine, and give it to those displaced Palestinians. Lebanon is a failed state and a conduit for Syrian interests so the Southern Section won't be missed much. The Muslims have done a good job of driving-off the Lebanese Christians (thus, guilty of the same thing) and have parked plenty of Palestinians (including Hezbollah) there in recent times, so they have all this newly-cleared space in which to park the Palestinian newcomers. It will also give the Palestinians enough contiguous land-mass and access to water and the sea, in order to actually make a go of it, and try to create and sustain a viable state, rather than the hopeless task of trying to piece-together a crazy-quilt patchwork of postage-stamp -sized scraps of disconnected land.

Hell, inside of a couple of generations after any such population shift, the Palestinians and Jews might even learn how to coexist peacefully; there being no further active points of contention, sufficient to draw blood.

It's a win-win for everybody... but it'll never happen... the Palestinians (collectively, as a body politic) aren't smart enough to team-up with Israel, Lebanon, the UN, etc., in order to make that happen, so they'll continue to rot and fester in-place until they implode.

Your anger in your answer is well noted, lased with more than the same latent hate on both sides, it is what keeps Israel from re-integrating into the Middle East...

Israel needs to re-integrate by accepting the Arab Peace Offer because it would be Recognition by her enemies for a Jewish State, with Embassies and trade.

Recognition and trade the key ingredients to survival, in the long-run.

 

[Hyrcanus]

You haven't been paying attention... eminent domain... condemning property... paying-off the residents... escorting them across the border... that worked for England and Spain when they expelled the Jews... it'll work again here, I'm sure....

Ethnic cleansing will mean the end of Israel.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Your anger in your answer is well noted..."

Save your amateur-hour psychoanalysis for someone who's interested in your opinion on the subject.

"...Israel needs to re-integrate by accepting the Arab Peace Offer..."

That would be insane, and suicidal on Israel's part.

That would leave Israel with the same sort of Indefensible Borders she had earlier, which encouraged the Arabs to attack in 1948, and which encouraged them to prepare to attack in 1967, until Israel clobbered their massed formations.

That would require the surrender of East Jerusalem.

After all these years, Jerusalem is now off-the-table.

After all these years, the Golan Heights are off-the-table as well.

The Arab Peace Plan is a total non-starter.

The Arabs cannot be trusted in such matters.

Israel has tried Land-for-Peace with the Arab world on multiple occasions and been burned every time.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

The Arab Peace Plan is not even a good Starting Point for serious talks.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Kondor3]

You haven't been paying attention... eminent domain... condemning property... paying-off the residents... escorting them across the border... that worked for England and Spain when they expelled the Jews... it'll work again here, I'm sure....

Ethnic cleansing will mean the end of Israel.

Or its salvation.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Or its salvation.

Just as Germany believed that removing the Jews from it's society would be it's salvation.

How ironic.

 

[Kondor3]

Or its salvation.

Just as Germany believed that removing the Jews from it's society would be it's salvation.

How ironic.

No. More like India and Pakistan shifting their populations around at the end of British Imperial Rule, so that adherents of each belief system (Hindus, Muslims) had their own contiguous and sustainable land-masses, in order to make a go of it. No phony-baloney Godwinian analogies to Nazi Germany required, but feel free to enjoy those if it comforts you, as the clock winds down towards such a resolution.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Or its salvation.

Just as Germany believed that removing the Jews from it's society would be it's salvation.

How ironic.

No, Germany tried to KILL the Jews.

 

[Hyrcanus]

No, Germany tried to KILL the Jews.

And no Arabs would die if Israel tried to "ship them to the East"????

thousands would die. tens of thousands would die fighting for their rights to live in their land.

that's genocide.

its sick that children and grandchildren of the Holocaust are actually talking about cleansing their own land, of an unwanted ethnic/religious population.

very, very sad.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

No, Germany tried to KILL the Jews.

And no Arabs would die if Israel tried to "ship them to the East"????

thousands would die. tens of thousands would die fighting for their rights to live in their land.

that's genocide.

its sick that children and grandchildren of the Holocaust are actually talking about cleansing their own land, of an unwanted ethnic/religious population.

very, very sad.

I agree. Your twisted logic and intellectual dishonesty is very sad.

 

[Hyrcanus]

I agree. Your twisted logic and intellectual dishonesty is very sad.

No, what's sad is your racist suggestion that Israel cleanse the land of Arabs.

That's what the Nazis did to us.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I agree. Your twisted logic and intellectual dishonesty is very sad.

No, what's sad is your racist suggestion that Israel cleanse the land of Arabs.

That's what the Nazis did to us.

You're not one of us.

 

[Kondor3]

"...its sick that children and grandchildren of the Holocaust are actually talking about cleansing their own land of an unwanted ethnic/religious population..."

In truth, this isn't about religion anywhere near as much as it is security.

Perhaps the Muslims should not have publicly SWORN to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.

Perhaps the Muslims should not have TRIED to drown the Jews in the Med on repeated occasions.

Perhaps the Muslims should not have suicide-bombed and rocketed their way out of any snowball's chance at a negotiated settlement.

There comes a time, when Land-for-Peace and Perpetual Negotiation comes to an end.

We've hit that point, quite possible, and, if true, then...

Israel cannot afford to leave the vicious, suicidal, idiotic Palestinian failed-state in its rear.

That means eliminating it.

With as little loss of life as may be possible.

But eliminating it, nonetheless.

It is the Hard Decision which the Arabs have forced upon the Israelis after 65 years.

The Palestinians have no one to blame but themselves, for making themselves such dangerous and despised and hated enemies of the Israelis.

It is what happens when your Charter and your governing and militia organizations have - as their core mission - the merciless expunging of another State, and its people.

The watchword in Israel, post-Holocaust, is: "Never again" - and I do believe they mean it - I sure-as-hell would, in their shoes.

Frankly, it speaks well of the Israelis that they are eliminating this threat in a controlled and (relatively) humane fashion rather than lining-up tanks hub-to-hub and rolling over the countryside and killing everything that moves...

Which would be the Arab solution, if the Arabs had the power to carry out their desires...

Recent pronouncements such as those by the recently-retired Iranian President tell the world that Muslim and Arab intentions have not changed one jot since 1948...

When you have a rattlesnake in your back yard, and you've tried your best to nudge it off your property, and it won't take the hint... eventually, you're going to either (a) kill it or (b) pick it up with a hook and force it to leave...

At least with (b), the rattlesnake still gets to live...

Better than the solution that the Arabs have sworn to attain eventually...

But this is all merely speculation and crystal-ball reading and map-interpretation and the like.

The Israelis are the only ones who truly know what they intend, and how they intend to achieve their goals, and the extent to which they remain committed to humanitarianism while acting to protect and preserve their own people and to position them in the best way for the future.

 

[Hyrcanus]

In truth, this isn't about religion anywhere near as much as it is security.

Perhaps the Muslims should not have publicly SWORN to drown the Jews in the Mediterranean.

Perhaps the Muslims should not have TRIED to drown the Jews in the Med on repeated occasions.

Perhaps the Muslims should not have suicide-bombed and rocketed their way out of any snowball's chance at a negotiated settlement.

There comes a time, when Land-for-Peace and Perpetual Negotiation comes to an end.

We've hit that point.

And Israel cannot afford to leave the vicious, suicidal, idiotic Palestinian failed-state in its rear.

That means eliminating it.

With as little loss of life as may be possible.

But eliminating it, nonetheless.

It is the Hard Decision which the Arabs have forced upon the Israelis after 65 years.

They have no one to blame but themselves for making themselves such dangerous and despised and hated enemies of the Israelis.....

Your solution to the "Arab Question" is not too dissimilar to the solution the Nazis had for the "Jewish Question".