Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?

[bedowin62]

you're citing words; others are citing appalling acts of barbarity toward women happening right now, today
that's why you're a clown Delta, and nobody takes you seriously

 

[Pogo]

Oh you mean like the Southern Baptist Convention?

Wives and Husbands

22 Wives, asubmit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
- Ephesians 5, ESV

no i mean like actually chopping off people's phuking heads, burning people alive, selling little girls into slavery, sending young women to blow themselves up in marketplaces AS WE SPEAK idiot


wow!

Sounds like Catholics to me. Ever hear of Northern Ireland? Not that long ago.

Hypocrite.

you're so over the top retarded i will just let your own response here resonate with the normal folks.....

When you can't win surrender's wisest.

YAWN

refresh my memory "winner". when did catholics and/or british in northern ireland practice female genital mutilation?
when did they send women into market places with bombs that killed 100 at a time??

when did they butcher each other by lining them up and beheading them?
when did they burn people alive? when did they sell young girls into slavery?

Lots of questions for such an emotional DQ.

Proxy Bombs were actually invented by the IRA in the 1970s, devolving it into a suicide version in 1990.
From Wiki:

>> On 24 October 1990 the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) developed the tactic by introducing the so-called "human proxy bomb". Three men deemed by the IRA to be "collaborators" (i.e. helping the security forces in some way)[5] were strapped into three vehicles and forced to drive to three British military targets. However, unlike the earlier proxy bombings, they were not given the chance to escape. The three synchronised attacks took place at Coshquin (near Derry), Cloghoge (near Newry), and Omagh in the early morning of 24 October 1990. The Coshquin attack was the deadliest, killing the human proxy and six soldiers. One soldier was killed at Cloghoge, but the proxy survived. At Omagh there were no fatalities due to a faulty detonator. <<
​

The "last witch burned in Ireland" is said to be Brigit Cleary:

>> ... her father and her husband accused her of being a fairy sent to take Bridget's place. Urine was thrown on her, and she was carried before the fireplace to cast the fairy out. By 16 March, rumours were beginning to circulate that Bridget was missing, and the local police began searching for her. Michael was quoted as claiming that his wife had been taken by fairies, and he appeared to be holding a vigil. Witness statements were gathered over the ensuing week, and by the time Bridget Cleary's burnt corpse was found in a shallow grave on 22 March, nine people had been charged in her disappearance, including her husband. A coroner's inquest the next day returned a verdict of death by burning.
​

That would be 1895.

Cromwell sold thousands of Irish into slavery, usually to the West Indies. It's believed that's why the Jamaican accent sounds like it does. Certainly young girls among them.

As for FGM, as always that's a cultural tradition dating back at least five thousand years, way long before anybody came up with the ideas of Islam, Christianism or Judaism. But it was done in Europe as a "remedy" for "hysteria", "nymphomania", "excessive masturbation" and lesbianism, including in the US into the 1960s. I didn't think your inane pap was worth the time to look up the Irish portion of that, but Google is free.

Beheadings also go back thousands of years, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, yada yada, and persisted into the 20th century in Europe (Norway 1905, Sweden 1903, Germany 1938). In old England you could get one if you were of the Nobility -- because it was less painful that being burnt or drawn and quartered.

Remember Henry VIII trumping up adultery charges on Anne Boleyn and lopping off her head?
Honor killing.

Now what do all of the above have in common?

--- None of them were driven by religion. Ya got politics and lust for power, ya got superstition, bigotry, and a whole lot of misogyny.

 

[Geaux4it]

Attitudes toward women and gender roles are cultural, not religious.

That'll be $41.65.

Religion is a part of culture.

Look up the definition and prove it to yourself.

Regards
DL

Eh - not really. One can participate more or less or or not at all in religion, but one doesn't really have a choice on culture.

One's culture is what one is made of and where one comes from. It determines literally everything, down to how you talk, how you walk, when, how and what you eat and how you take a dump; where and how you live, all the things you do and all the things you don't do; what everything means, what's more valuable and what's worthless. Religion determines what you do in your place of worship and what you "should" be doing/not doing in daily life. But if the religion says one thing and culture says another, culture will always win.

How one addresses the opposite sex is absolutely cultural, has jack squat to do with what one's religion says. Religion tries to get a hand in there at the time of a wedding but in the Grand Dynamic it's no more significant than Arnold Horshack desperately trying to be noticed from the back of the room.


When we start dating or set up housekeeping with a mate, we do it according to the guidelines, stories, mores, values and systems our culture gives us, and they're the same structure regardless whether we're Christians, Jews, Buddhists or atheists. Whether that includes men abusing/dominating women, and exactly how, and to what degree, is all dictated by the unwritten laws of that culture -- and more specifically your particular subculture: whether you're urban, suburban, rural, from the North or South, etc. Whether the religion agrees, disagrees or has no opinion.

An extreme example would be "honor" killing. No religion allows it and every religion where it's coincident prohibits it; yet certain cultures still practice it -- despite their own religious prohibitions. Culture trumps both religion and law, every time.

Whether your religion addresses it or not, and regardless what it says on the matter, if you have a patriarchal culture, then patriarchy is simply the accepted system and that's how it will go down, until the culture changes.

Nice read. Here is an interesting take on the culture vs religion topic

-Geaux

What does Religion have to do with Culture?

Transcript of What does Religion have to do with Culture?
What does Religion have to do with Culture?

Culture is everywhere and we can find it all around the world but what exactly is culture?
Culture is a set of meanings, beliefs, values, rules and practices that identify a particular group. Ex: customs, food, music, beliefs, values, language.
" To be human is to live in a culture where religion plays an essential role in how we look at and live in the world"
Principle #6
Religion has to do Culture
Religion does not escape culture, because religion is rooted in the history of people's beliefs and traditions.
Ex: When we pray we use symbols and rituals,language, clothing's, values and beliefs.
By: Laura Isabel Vargas P4
Culture
They are many traits of culture like:
Humans create culture.
Culture CONSISTS f ways of doing things.
Culture is public.
Culture arises from tradition.
Culture gives us our identity.
Also they are many sights and sound of culture in our society. They might be in signs and rituals, that are connected through symbols.
Ex: When we associate the bread and wine with communion.
Which by our bodily actions surrounding language makes symbols effective with a culture.
Religion Has to with culture
Religion call us to be involved in over coming struggles and work toward peace. It also helps us to find a way to overcome isolation and suffering.
It gives us a way of dealing with our experiences we have in our bond with God.
The church's goal is to let Christ speak to Culture
The Church seeks to transform culture so we can embody the vision of Christ.
Religion is a part in culture and it participates in culture.

Full transcript


What does Religion have to do with Culture?

 

[GreatestIam]

Attitudes toward women and gender roles are cultural, not religious.

That'll be $41.65.

Religion is a part of culture.

Look up the definition and prove it to yourself.

Regards
DL

Eh - not really. One can participate more or less or or not at all in religion, but one doesn't really have a choice on culture.

One's culture is what one is made of and where one comes from. It determines literally everything, down to how you talk, how you walk, when, how and what you eat and how you take a dump; where and how you live, all the things you do and all the things you don't do; what everything means, what's more valuable and what's worthless. Religion determines what you do in your place of worship and what you "should" be doing/not doing in daily life. But if the religion says one thing and culture says another, culture will always win.

How one addresses the opposite sex is absolutely cultural, has jack squat to do with what one's religion says. Religion tries to get a hand in there at the time of a wedding but in the Grand Dynamic it's no more significant than Arnold Horshack desperately trying to be noticed from the back of the room.


When we start dating or set up housekeeping with a mate, we do it according to the guidelines, stories, mores, values and systems our culture gives us, and they're the same structure regardless whether we're Christians, Jews, Buddhists or atheists. Whether that includes men abusing/dominating women, and exactly how, and to what degree, is all dictated by the unwritten laws of that culture -- and more specifically your particular subculture: whether you're urban, suburban, rural, from the North or South, etc. Whether the religion agrees, disagrees or has no opinion.

An extreme example would be "honor" killing. No religion allows it and every religion where it's coincident prohibits it; yet certain cultures still practice it -- despite their own religious prohibitions. Culture trumps both religion and law, every time.

Whether your religion addresses it or not, and regardless what it says on the matter, if you have a patriarchal culture, then patriarchy is simply the accepted system and that's how it will go down, until the culture changes.

No argument on most of this.

I do not agree with your " No religion allows it and every religion where it's coincident prohibits it;"

Some religions and cultures do allow honor killings.

2002 Mecca girls' school fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Thankfully, Christianity turned away from that view of women during the last century. Hopefully Islam will soon follow.

Not if we do not push them to do so. Soon to right wing fundamental religions means centuries.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Thankfully, Christianity turned away from that view of women during the last century. Hopefully Islam will soon follow.

"Christianity" didn't turn away from it -- our culture did. Particularly in the "Sixties". Christianity, and everybody else, had to get in line with that change, or lose support. Even now for example the RCC still has only male priests.

Culture leads, religion follows. Culture always has the upper hand.

Islam is slightly different as they have tied Sharia to much of their culture.



Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Thankfully, Christianity turned away from that view of women during the last century. Hopefully Islam will soon follow.

They won't. They've been stuck in 700 for 1300 years.

I disagree as I wee more and more Muslim women fighting for the rights that they see the Western women enjoying.

It is taking longer than what I like but there is movement.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?


Pickthall4:34

"Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other,


Every moral legal system I know of in the West and most of the non-Islamic world begins with equality for all.


Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?


Check the value of a Muslim woman, according to some Muslim men, at the 8 min. mark.





Regards

DL

Oh you mean like the Southern Baptist Convention?

Wives and Husbands

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
- Ephesians 5, ESV

"A prohibition on pastoral leadership by women, affirmed within the last several years, is based on the Bible verse 1 Timothy 2:12 in which the Apostle Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man." Regarding family life, Southern Baptists cite Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord."

Land said the Southern Baptists' position allows for a wife to work outside the home, so long as her husband agrees — and Todd Palin has long backed his wife's career in public service.

Yet, Land's view is far from universal in the denomination. Many Southern Baptists believe women and mothers should stay home.

A year ago, the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, which has its main campus in Fort Worth, introduced an academic program in homemaking, where women — and only women — are taught how to cook and sew. In a 2004 sermon, the Rev. Daniel L. Akin, president of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Wake Forest, N.C., cited the biblical book of Titus to argue that one of God's assignments to young women is to "be a homemaker."

"She is not lazy or a busybody, nor is she distracted by outside pursuits and responsibilities that eat up her precious time and attention," he said. "This woman is not seduced by the sirens of modernity who tell her she is wasting her time and talent as a homemaker, and that it is the career woman who has purpose and is truly satisfied.""
Southern Baptists back Palin despite view on women's role - USATODAY.com

Gotta love how people bash Islam for shit Christianity's been doing a lot longer.

I bash them both as neither are worthy to a moral person.



Regards
DL

 

[Pogo]

Thankfully, Christianity turned away from that view of women during the last century. Hopefully Islam will soon follow.

"Christianity" didn't turn away from it -- our culture did. Particularly in the "Sixties". Christianity, and everybody else, had to get in line with that change, or lose support. Even now for example the RCC still has only male priests.

Culture leads, religion follows. Culture always has the upper hand.

Islam is slightly different as they have tied Sharia to much of their culture.



Regards
DL

Not different at all. As everywhere else, culture comes first. As you yourself note in a subsequent post, women in some cultures (e.g. Tunisia) are pressing for change, more so than in other cultures (e.g. Arabia). Yet both share the same religion. Just as women in, say, San Francisco press for change earlier and more forcefully than, say, women in Tuscaloosa.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Thankfully, Christianity turned away from that view of women during the last century. Hopefully Islam will soon follow.

Not if we do not push them to do so. Soon to right wing fundamental religions means centuries.

Regards
DL

3 generations. I've read studies that when an immigrant family moves to a new country, that generation struggles with the language and culture. The 2nd generation retains some of that culture and but speaks the old and new language fluently. The 3rd generation is fully part of the new culture. I can confirm this because I'm a 3rd generation immigrant. That's why I'm not worried about immigrants entering this country.

As for the middle east, their religious insanity is fueled by all kinds of problems. The rest of the world wants to control their resources, and it fucks wih them and they find comfort in zealotry. That won't change for a long time, but faster if they are exposed to the west more.

 

[Pogo]

Thankfully, Christianity turned away from that view of women during the last century. Hopefully Islam will soon follow.

Not if we do not push them to do so. Soon to right wing fundamental religions means centuries.

Regards
DL

Really.

Who "pushed" us to do so?

Spoiler: Check your answer here

We did.

Ever heard the expression "if the people lead, eventually the leaders will follow"?

This is what it means.

 

[Pogo]

Attitudes toward women and gender roles are cultural, not religious.

That'll be $41.65.

Religion is a part of culture.

Look up the definition and prove it to yourself.

Regards
DL

Eh - not really. One can participate more or less or or not at all in religion, but one doesn't really have a choice on culture.

One's culture is what one is made of and where one comes from. It determines literally everything, down to how you talk, how you walk, when, how and what you eat and how you take a dump; where and how you live, all the things you do and all the things you don't do; what everything means, what's more valuable and what's worthless. Religion determines what you do in your place of worship and what you "should" be doing/not doing in daily life. But if the religion says one thing and culture says another, culture will always win.

How one addresses the opposite sex is absolutely cultural, has jack squat to do with what one's religion says. Religion tries to get a hand in there at the time of a wedding but in the Grand Dynamic it's no more significant than Arnold Horshack desperately trying to be noticed from the back of the room.


When we start dating or set up housekeeping with a mate, we do it according to the guidelines, stories, mores, values and systems our culture gives us, and they're the same structure regardless whether we're Christians, Jews, Buddhists or atheists. Whether that includes men abusing/dominating women, and exactly how, and to what degree, is all dictated by the unwritten laws of that culture -- and more specifically your particular subculture: whether you're urban, suburban, rural, from the North or South, etc. Whether the religion agrees, disagrees or has no opinion.

An extreme example would be "honor" killing. No religion allows it and every religion where it's coincident prohibits it; yet certain cultures still practice it -- despite their own religious prohibitions. Culture trumps both religion and law, every time.

Whether your religion addresses it or not, and regardless what it says on the matter, if you have a patriarchal culture, then patriarchy is simply the accepted system and that's how it will go down, until the culture changes.

No argument on most of this.

I do not agree with your " No religion allows it and every religion where it's coincident prohibits it;"

Some religions and cultures do allow honor killings.

2002 Mecca girls' school fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
DL

Well --- no, they don't. Your posting a page about a historical incident in no way means some religion "allows" it.

Just as this page does not prove Christianism "allows" bombings.

 

[rdean]

Republicans already have.

 

[BlindBoo]

In a word, no fucking way.