Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

[danielpalos]

Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

I think the United States should increase the top federal tax rate from where it is now at 39% back to 70% where it was in 1980. The top tax rate in the United States from 1945 to 1980 was NEVER lower than 70%. The time period of 1945 to 1980 saw the strongest average annual GDP growth in United States history. The national debt as a percentage of GDP was at 121% in 1945. But by 1980, the national debt was only 33% of GDP. During this time period, the United States fought the cold war which involved fighting in Korea and Vietnam as well as deterring the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact.

How was the United States able to fight these wars, have large annual defense spending, pay for new social programs like Social Security, Medicare etc, while reducing the national debt relative to the country's wealth? It was able to do this by having a top tax rate on the richest Americans that was between 70% and 94% during the time period of 1945-1980. These tax rates on wealthy Americans DID NOT hurt the economy, ruin business etc. The country thrived with these tax rates.

Consumer spending is 80% of economic growth. Most consumers are not wealthy. They are lower class or middle class. Making sure their taxes are lower or balanced is important because they spend money when they get a raise, new job, tax break, etc. The rich though do not change their level of consumer spending when they get a tax cut or obtain more wealth. Their wealth is such that their level of consumer spending is not impacted by tax cuts or tax increases.

So going back to a 70% tax rate for the wealthiest Americans will provide more important revenue for the government without hurting the economy. This extra revenue can be used to balance the budget, pay down debt, increase defense spending, provide more money for education and health care.

The national debt has sky rocketed since 1980 and it has been difficult finding enough money for defense and domestic programs. The solution is a higher tax rate, 70% or more on the wealthiest Americans. It won't hurt the economy as shown by the superior economic growth from 1945 to 1980.

Success should not be punished. Flat tax.

equality is a social concept not a capital concept.

why complain about taxes when you can afford to pay more.

how do you know what people can afford???

you can afford more than those poorer than You.

THEY ARENT MY PROBLEM, JUST LIKE i AM NOT THEIRS

We have Government and Tax. Only in right wing fantasy is there no correlation.

 

[Wry Catcher]

how is it moral for any government to confiscate 70% of your INCOME? Remember, income is not even "profit."

You are a damn liar or an ignorant fool. Have you ever filed a Federal Income Tax? If so, you would know better.

For others who believe this 70% figure means ALL of the income is taxed at the rate, they are wrong.

The fact is each tax bracket grows in percentage as the income grows. Which is why cutting the number of tax brackets was the intent of Ryan, McConnell and Trump to pass this fraud - it only benefited the high earners.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Success should not be punished. Flat tax.

equality is a social concept not a capital concept.

why complain about taxes when you can afford to pay more.

how do you know what people can afford???

you can afford more than those poorer than You.

Idiotic statement. I may make more but have six kids so I need to make more than someone who has two kids. Honestly get an education prior to opining.

you are the one quibbling. those poorer than you can afford even less.

What does quibbling mean? You didn’t use the word correctly. Dummy.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Success should not be punished. Flat tax.

equality is a social concept not a capital concept.

why complain about taxes when you can afford to pay more.

how do you know what people can afford???

you can afford more than those poorer than You.

THEY ARENT MY PROBLEM, JUST LIKE i AM NOT THEIRS

We have Government and Tax. Only in right wing fantasy is there no correlation.

We have Government? What does that sentence even mean? Are you drunk?

 

[P F Tinmore]

A flat tax that applied to all income is the fairest kind of tax, all income, no deductions, applies to everyone. Make it 5% or 20%, but apply it equally to everyone and every penny of income. You could even have a floor below which no tax would be due in order to help low income people. But the floor should be quite low, maybe 10K/year.

I don't think our problem is how we are taxed. Any method of taxation with have its share of winners and loser. There is no such thing as "fair taxation". All taxation is unfair in some form or another.

The problem is that we spend too much money on the cost of government and therefore have to raise a ton of money, which winds up fucking everybody. Either directly or indirectly we all pay for this big bloated out of control government.

The real way to have tax reform is to stop spending so much damn money for the cost of government and to stop taxing the people so much.

Of course the welfare queens that suck off the teat of big government would hate that, wouldn't they?

The problem is that we spend too much money on the cost of government and therefore have to raise a ton of money,

Indeed, we have the military industrial complex, the homeland security industrial complex, the private prison industrial complex, the charter school industrial complex, etc..

All this is money out of the pockets of the people and into the pockets of the 1%. All this is brought to you by our corporate owned politicians.

correction: brought to you by greedy politicians owned by special interests. Corporations as an entity are not evil. some of the people running them are corrupt but the business structure of corporations is a benign concept that works.

I am not opposed to profitable corporations. I am not opposed to wealth, per se. Money in the hands of the investor class is required to develop production capacity. Production is the only way to create wealth. Everything else is just getting money from somebody else.

Now, we need a good flow of money between the investor class and the consumer class. If money collects in one place, (usually at the top) this pinches off the velocity of money and the economy falters. Money in the hands of consumers is what makes investments profitable. Everyone from bigcorp to the local restaurant requires a customer base with some money in their pocket.

The government cannot create wealth. It can only set the standards for a healthy economy. Bribery (euphemistically called campaign contributions) goes against policies that set these standards.

 

[OnePercenter]

Corporations should pay the same percentage of revenue as the middle class pay's in percentage of income.

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

You believe in making me richer by fucking yourself? That's not very smart.

You're an idiot, I'm laughing at you.

I'm not the one voting against my own best interest, you are.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Corporations should pay the same percentage of revenue as the middle class pay's in percentage of income.

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

You believe in making me richer by fucking yourself? That's not very smart.

You're an idiot, I'm laughing at you.

I'm not the one voting against my own best interest, you are.

I would definitely vote against your moronic proposals.

 

[OnePercenter]

Corporations should pay the same percentage of revenue as the middle class pay's in percentage of income.

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

You believe in making me richer by fucking yourself? That's not very smart.

Not to worry, if Democrats raise taxes you'll become their new best friend.

It doesn't matter. If Democrats raise taxes I'll still be a multi-millionaire.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A flat tax that applied to all income is the fairest kind of tax, all income, no deductions, applies to everyone. Make it 5% or 20%, but apply it equally to everyone and every penny of income. You could even have a floor below which no tax would be due in order to help low income people. But the floor should be quite low, maybe 10K/year.

I don't think our problem is how we are taxed. Any method of taxation with have its share of winners and loser. There is no such thing as "fair taxation". All taxation is unfair in some form or another.

The problem is that we spend too much money on the cost of government and therefore have to raise a ton of money, which winds up fucking everybody. Either directly or indirectly we all pay for this big bloated out of control government.

The real way to have tax reform is to stop spending so much damn money for the cost of government and to stop taxing the people so much.

Of course the welfare queens that suck off the teat of big government would hate that, wouldn't they?

The problem is that we spend too much money on the cost of government and therefore have to raise a ton of money,

Indeed, we have the military industrial complex, the homeland security industrial complex, the private prison industrial complex, the charter school industrial complex, etc..

All this is money out of the pockets of the people and into the pockets of the 1%. All this is brought to you by our corporate owned politicians.

correction: brought to you by greedy politicians owned by special interests. Corporations as an entity are not evil. some of the people running them are corrupt but the business structure of corporations is a benign concept that works.

I am not opposed to profitable corporations. I am not opposed to wealth, per se. Money in the hands of the investor class is required to develop production capacity. Production is the only way to create wealth. Everything else is just getting money from somebody else.

Now, we need a good flow of money between the investor class and the consumer class. If money collects in one place, (usually at the top) this pinches off the velocity of money and the economy falters. Money in the hands of consumers is what makes investments profitable. Everyone from bigcorp to the local restaurant requires a customer base with some money in their pocket.

The government cannot create wealth. It can only set the standards for a healthy economy. Bribery (euphemistically called campaign contributions) goes against policies that set these standards.

If money collects in one place, (usually at the top) this pinches off the velocity of money and the economy falters.

Money collects?
Like the swimming pool full of money?

 

[Flash]

[Q

We have Government and Tax. Only in right wing fantasy is there no correlation.

Fuck government and taxation. It is an evil. Necessary to a limited degree but not this filthy bloated debt ridden welfare state we have now.

Only an idiot would advocate a system where greedy assholes get to vote to take away your money to pay their bills.

 

[OnePercenter]

Corporations should pay the same percentage of revenue as the middle class pay's in percentage of income.

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

Ack. Good catch. Yes, he is an idiot.

No, it's an equal comparison. Debts within a corporation are seen as a percentage of revenue. I'm simply showing an apples to apples comparison (corporations vs. workers). If workers had the same deductions/loopholes/subsidies as corporations, you'd be much better off.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Corporations should pay the same percentage of revenue as the middle class pay's in percentage of income.

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

Ack. Good catch. Yes, he is an idiot.

No, it's an equal comparison. Debts within a corporation are seen as a percentage of revenue. I'm simply showing an apples to apples comparison (corporations vs. workers). If workers had the same deductions/loopholes/subsidies as corporations, you'd be much better off.

If workers had the same deductions/loopholes/subsidies as corporations, you'd be much better off.

WalMart has COGS, their workers don't.
That's not a subsidy for WalMart.

The vast majority of Americans, even before the Trump tax cuts, used the standard deduction.
WalMart didn't get to use that loophole.

 

[OnePercenter]

Corporations should pay the same percentage of revenue as the middle class pay's in percentage of income.

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

The middle class pay's 15% of their total income to federal tax, corporations under the tRump tax cuts pay 1.5% of revenue to federal tax.

Excellent! Lower Taxes is Mo Bettah.

You can't lower taxes for the workers. Who's going to pay for the wall? My tRump tax cuts don't expire, yours do.

 

[OnePercenter]

how is it moral for any government to confiscate 70% of your INCOME? Remember, income is not even "profit."

Well, where does your income come from? If you are a U.S. citizen living in the United States, it comes from the U.S. MARKET. Your income is based essentially on your market value. How much your house is worth is based on the MARKET. You were lucky to be born into the United States and its market. You are lucky to be able to take advantage of that market. The U.S. market was built long before you were born. It was protected, built, and grown by generations that came before you. In order for that market to continue, it needs a stable government that is able to protect it and maintain order. The government needs revenue to do that and the only way it can get that revenue is through taxes.

If I make $100mil and my tax bracket is 40% I pay $40mil. How much more do you want me to pay?! Wtf!?

If you make $100M, your people create a corporation in a tax friendly State such as Nevada, which reduces your federal tax liability to $1.5M. Bill gates is a Nevada corporation.

 

[OnePercenter]

Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

I think the United States should increase the top federal tax rate from where it is now at 39% back to 70% where it was in 1980. The top tax rate in the United States from 1945 to 1980 was NEVER lower than 70%. The time period of 1945 to 1980 saw the strongest average annual GDP growth in United States history. The national debt as a percentage of GDP was at 121% in 1945. But by 1980, the national debt was only 33% of GDP. During this time period, the United States fought the cold war which involved fighting in Korea and Vietnam as well as deterring the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact.

How was the United States able to fight these wars, have large annual defense spending, pay for new social programs like Social Security, Medicare etc, while reducing the national debt relative to the country's wealth? It was able to do this by having a top tax rate on the richest Americans that was between 70% and 94% during the time period of 1945-1980. These tax rates on wealthy Americans DID NOT hurt the economy, ruin business etc. The country thrived with these tax rates.

Consumer spending is 80% of economic growth. Most consumers are not wealthy. They are lower class or middle class. Making sure their taxes are lower or balanced is important because they spend money when they get a raise, new job, tax break, etc. The rich though do not change their level of consumer spending when they get a tax cut or obtain more wealth. Their wealth is such that their level of consumer spending is not impacted by tax cuts or tax increases.

So going back to a 70% tax rate for the wealthiest Americans will provide more important revenue for the government without hurting the economy. This extra revenue can be used to balance the budget, pay down debt, increase defense spending, provide more money for education and health care.

The national debt has sky rocketed since 1980 and it has been difficult finding enough money for defense and domestic programs. The solution is a higher tax rate, 70% or more on the wealthiest Americans. It won't hurt the economy as shown by the superior economic growth from 1945 to 1980.

Success should not be punished. Flat tax.

Which would screw low income workers, besides, high income workers pay less now than with a flat tax.

 

[OnePercenter]

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

You believe in making me richer by fucking yourself? That's not very smart.

You're an idiot, I'm laughing at you.

I'm not the one voting against my own best interest, you are.

I would definitely vote against your moronic proposals.

All of my "moronic proposals" put more money in your pocket.

 

[Flash]

If you want to live under a system where somebody else can vote to take away your earned money for their benefit then you are a moron.

If you want to live under a system where you think you are are entitled to get other people's money through government pressure then you are a slimy worthless greedy little piece of shit.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

how is it moral for any government to confiscate 70% of your INCOME? Remember, income is not even "profit."

Well, where does your income come from? If you are a U.S. citizen living in the United States, it comes from the U.S. MARKET. Your income is based essentially on your market value. How much your house is worth is based on the MARKET. You were lucky to be born into the United States and its market. You are lucky to be able to take advantage of that market. The U.S. market was built long before you were born. It was protected, built, and grown by generations that came before you. In order for that market to continue, it needs a stable government that is able to protect it and maintain order. The government needs revenue to do that and the only way it can get that revenue is through taxes.

If I make $100mil and my tax bracket is 40% I pay $40mil. How much more do you want me to pay?! Wtf!?

If you make $100M, your people create a corporation in a tax friendly State such as Nevada, which reduces your federal tax liability to $1.5M. Bill gates is a Nevada corporation.

If you make $100M, your people create a corporation in a tax friendly State such as Nevada, which reduces your federal tax liability to $1.5M

Liar.

 

[OnePercenter]

Corporations should pay the same percentage of revenue as the middle class pay's in percentage of income.

Excellent idea! As the middle quintile net effective tax rate is about 15%, that would mean a cut in corporate taxes.

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

Ack. Good catch. Yes, he is an idiot.

No, it's an equal comparison. Debts within a corporation are seen as a percentage of revenue. I'm simply showing an apples to apples comparison (corporations vs. workers). If workers had the same deductions/loopholes/subsidies as corporations, you'd be much better off.

If workers had the same deductions/loopholes/subsidies as corporations, you'd be much better off.

WalMart has COGS, their workers don't.
That's not a subsidy for WalMart.

The vast majority of Americans, even before the Trump tax cuts, used the standard deduction.
WalMart didn't get to use that loophole.

WalMart has COGS, their workers don't.
That's not a subsidy for WalMart.

Workers don't have costs? Workers should be able to deduct rent/mortgage, cost of transportation to and from work.

I don't think you want to get into a conversation and Walmart subsidies.....You NEVER do well.

The vast majority of Americans, even before the Trump tax cuts, used the standard deduction.
WalMart didn't get to use that loophole.

The vast majority of American Workers don't make enough money (even with the tRump tax cuts) to itemize.

Walmart as well as all corporations have much better tax benefits than the standard deduction.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

He wants to tax revenue, not income.
He's an idiot.

You believe in making me richer by fucking yourself? That's not very smart.

You're an idiot, I'm laughing at you.

I'm not the one voting against my own best interest, you are.

I would definitely vote against your moronic proposals.

All of my "moronic proposals" put more money in your pocket.

Your moronic suggestions would damage the economy and take money away from me and most other Americans.