Should Welfare be a Disqualification for Voting?

[kaz]

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Charities do that all the time. Particularly Churches help impoverished areas. My kids have done multiple trips through the church to help people and they are always raising money to do that. They spent half a million in Haiti and dozens of people went to help after the earthquake.

Government on the other hand has spent trillions on a War on Poverty that hasn't changed poverty rates and does things like forgive the debt of despotic regimes so they can buy more palaces and arms to oppress their people.

You need to stop reading Democrat's marketing materials and look at the ugly truth of what they are actually doing. But hey, as long as your government checks come every month, you're not about to do that. Which is your choice, but end the crap you're doing because you care about anyone but yourself.

 

[rightwinger]

Help those who need helping

Easy enough

Or in your case, help those who spent their money and didn't save and now you want more so you don't starve.

As Foxfyre said, the charitable choice should be on the giver, not the taker.

There is no morality in voting for someone to take guns from someone else and giving it to you. It's just armed robbery.

Oh yes...the old

Poor people deserve to be poor

 

[kaz]

Help those who need helping

Easy enough

Or in your case, help those who spent their money and didn't save and now you want more so you don't starve.

As Foxfyre said, the charitable choice should be on the giver, not the taker.

There is no morality in voting for someone to take guns from someone else and giving it to you. It's just armed robbery.

Oh yes...the old

Poor people deserve to be poor

Strawman and strawman. Ironic since our first encounter when I joined the site was me telling you that you didn't know what a strawman was based on your use of the term. You sure know how to do them though.

So in your limited knowledge, the only way you can think of to help "the poor" is for the Federal government to redistribute wealth by force. There is no other solution. None.

In your case, you're not even poor. Though you would be if you stopped getting government checks. But why does that you never saved a dime and lived paycheck to paycheck make your bills my problem exactly?

 

[rightwinger]

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Charities do that all the time. Particularly Churches help impoverished areas. My kids have done multiple trips through the church to help people and they are always raising money to do that. They spent half a million in Haiti and dozens of people went to help after the earthquake.

Government on the other hand has spent trillions on a War on Poverty that hasn't changed poverty rates and does things like forgive the debt of despotic regimes so they can buy more palaces and arms to oppress their people.

You need to stop reading Democrat's marketing materials and look at the ugly truth of what they are actually doing. But hey, as long as your government checks come every month, you're not about to do that. Which is your choice, but end the crap you're doing because you care about anyone but yourself.

Nothing wrong with most charities. Most do admirable work. Some spend excessively on fundraising and overhead.
But we found out in the 30s that charities cannot do it on their own. When times are good, charitable contributions flow in and there are not many people needing help. When times are bad, contributions dry up and people in need increase. Charities were unable to handle the Great Depression and the dust bowl

Charities are hit or miss. Some areas have strong public charities others almost nothing

The war on poverty did good work. It was not just handouts, it was jobs training, jobs programs, Headstart, Medicare. Social Security has been a major success. A social safety net is a good thing....all great societies have one

 

[rightwinger]

Or in your case, help those who spent their money and didn't save and now you want more so you don't starve.

As Foxfyre said, the charitable choice should be on the giver, not the taker.

There is no morality in voting for someone to take guns from someone else and giving it to you. It's just armed robbery.

Oh yes...the old

Poor people deserve to be poor

Strawman and strawman. Ironic since our first encounter when I joined the site was me telling you that you didn't know what a strawman was based on your use of the term. You sure know how to do them though.

So in your limited knowledge, the only way you can think of to help "the poor" is for the Federal government to redistribute wealth by force. There is no other solution. None.

In your case, you're not even poor. Though you would be if you stopped getting government checks. But why does that you never saved a dime and lived paycheck to paycheck make your bills my problem exactly?

I doubt it....I rarely use the term strawman, it is intellectually lazy

I mostly say you are full of shit

 

[DiamondDave]

You and I are on the same page that at least the federal government should be restricted to providing what benefits all and not what is targeted for individuals, groups, demographics, or entities. And proper government infrastructure invariably follows commerce and industry and people living their lives rather than the other way around and is voted by the people who will pay for it.

As for any federal programs that don't fit that criteria, I think we are already past the point of no return there. Those in government whether elected, appointed, or hired into a massive bureacracy, have mostly become totally self serving putting their own self interests ahead of anybody they serve. Thus they no longer care about any negative consequences just so long as they can increase their power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth now on the theory they will have theirs and be long gone before the sky falls in on them.

And the recipients of the bones they throw at the people to keep the people voting for them are also far less concerned with any negative consequences and are much more afraid they might lose those meager bones.

The only solution I see is a Constitutional Amendment making it illegal for anybody in government to provide anybody, including themselves, with any benefit that is not provided to all uniformly across the country and Congress will pass no law that everybody in government is not also subject to. We would need to allow sufficient time to carefully transfer all improper federal programs to the states where such programs belonged in the first place.

That would restore fiscal and ethical integrity to government and replace career politicians and bureaucrats, who would have no more ability to profit at our expense, with public servants interested in providing good government, not self serving government.

And it would make all those questions in the OP moot.

Help those who need helping

Easy enough

A noble and easy thing when it is voluntary and out of the goodness of your heart.

Not so noble and easy when we give people power to demand how much of our help they are entitled to.

The forcing of others to have their pockets fleeced for your sense of who should be helped and how much is not a noble thing... you doing it yourself is

Something wrongwinger just cannot understand

 

[DiamondDave]

Help those who need helping

Easy enough

A noble and easy thing when it is voluntary and out of the goodness of your heart.

Not so noble and easy when we give people power to demand how much of our help they are entitled to.

Sounds good doesn't it?

Help people by popularity contest. If I like you....you will be helped
If not....too bad for you

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Because you think you are owed something because you want it, need it, think you need it, or scream for it..

Sorry Charlie.. the only one responsible for you is you... I am not your mommy, your nanny, your allowance giver, your kisser of boo boos, nor your sugar daddy

Government is not charged to bring you or the group that you in out of poverty.. it is not there to redistribute upon your whim nor the whim of people who like the charity yet do not want to pay for it

 

[kaz]

Charities were unable to handle the Great Depression and the dust bowl

Well, they have that in common with Government

 

[kaz]

Oh yes...the old

Poor people deserve to be poor

Strawman and strawman. Ironic since our first encounter when I joined the site was me telling you that you didn't know what a strawman was based on your use of the term. You sure know how to do them though.

So in your limited knowledge, the only way you can think of to help "the poor" is for the Federal government to redistribute wealth by force. There is no other solution. None.

In your case, you're not even poor. Though you would be if you stopped getting government checks. But why does that you never saved a dime and lived paycheck to paycheck make your bills my problem exactly?

I doubt it....I rarely use the term strawman, it is intellectually lazy

I mostly say you are full of shit

I bow to the expert on the subject

 

[dblack]

A noble and easy thing when it is voluntary and out of the goodness of your heart.

Not so noble and easy when we give people power to demand how much of our help they are entitled to.

Sounds good doesn't it?

Help people by popularity contest. If I like you....you will be helped
If not....too bad for you

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Because you think you are owed something because you want it, need it, think you need it, or scream for it..

Despite the usual accusations, that's not what the left is pursuing with the welfare state. Try listening to what they're saying. It may not make sense to you, but they're not just lying. They're concerned that if we're left to care for each other as individuals voluntarily, some people will be left out. That those will little obvious value as fellow humans will be left to the wolves.

But we should look at how making charity a state concern changes that equation. Instead of individuals helping people they sympathize with and value as fellow humans, we have government helping and supporting people for its own reasons - and let's not kid ourselves, systems like governments develop and maintain their own volition with often unexpected ends, ends that can run counter to the motives of the most or all of the people involved. Governments value obedient workers and soldiers, and dependency insures a steady supply.

 

[dblack]

A noble and easy thing when it is voluntary and out of the goodness of your heart.

Not so noble and easy when we give people power to demand how much of our help they are entitled to.

Sounds good doesn't it?

Help people by popularity contest. If I like you....you will be helped
If not....too bad for you

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Because you think you are owed something because you want it, need it, think you need it, or scream for it..

Despite the usual accusations, that's not what the left is pursuing with the welfare state. Try listening to what they're saying. It may not make sense to you, but they're not just lying. They're concerned that if we're left to care for each other as individuals voluntarily, some people will be left out. That those will little obvious value as fellow humans will be left to the wolves.

But we should look at how making charity a state concern changes that equation. Instead of individuals helping people they sympathize with and value as fellow humans, we have government helping and supporting people for its own reasons - and let's not kid ourselves, systems like governments develop and maintain their own volition with often unexpected ends, ends that can run counter to the motives of most or all of the people involved. Governments value obedient workers and soldiers, and dependency insures a steady supply.

 

[rightwinger]

A noble and easy thing when it is voluntary and out of the goodness of your heart.

Not so noble and easy when we give people power to demand how much of our help they are entitled to.

Sounds good doesn't it?

Help people by popularity contest. If I like you....you will be helped
If not....too bad for you

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Because you think you are owed something because you want it, need it, think you need it, or scream for it..

Sorry Charlie.. the only one responsible for you is you... I am not your mommy, your nanny, your allowance giver, your kisser of boo boos, nor your sugar daddy

Government is not charged to bring you or the group that you in out of poverty.. it is not there to redistribute upon your whim nor the whim of people who like the charity yet do not want to pay for it

Actually, because we are America

We are the wealthiest nation on earth and we can afford to treat the needy better. We do not want people begging door to door. We do not want people suffering from illness or injury. We want our old people taken care of

Great societies take care of their less fortunate. We do what we can to help people who are struggling.

 

[DiamondDave]

Sounds good doesn't it?

Help people by popularity contest. If I like you....you will be helped
If not....too bad for you

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Because you think you are owed something because you want it, need it, think you need it, or scream for it..

Sorry Charlie.. the only one responsible for you is you... I am not your mommy, your nanny, your allowance giver, your kisser of boo boos, nor your sugar daddy

Government is not charged to bring you or the group that you in out of poverty.. it is not there to redistribute upon your whim nor the whim of people who like the charity yet do not want to pay for it

Actually, because we are America

We are the wealthiest nation on earth and we can afford to treat the needy better. We do not want people begging door to door. We do not want people suffering from illness or injury. We want our old people taken care of

Great societies take care of their less fortunate. We do what we can to help people who are struggling.

Because you want it... you are not owed something because someone earns more...

And you spout out WE continually with this.. when it is others you want to foot the bill.. when you are not among those who you advocate taking from, there is no WE in this...

Great people give of themselves... great idiots think it is great to force others to contribute so you can give of them

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Nobody said only the wealthy, all we are saying is only the elf sufficient. If you are a ward of the state it makes no sense that you should get to vote for more of the states largess. In other words if you are on the public dime you probably aren't going to make good decisions based on anything other than making sure your welfare is increased. That doesn't make for a healthy country. Get off of welfare and then you get to vote. Until then you get what others will hand out to you.

You think the wealthy don't vote on the states largess?
What a simple world you live in

If you live on the public dime you will vote for the person who will most help your lot in life.....just like the wealthy do

If every class contributed the same exact percentage in Federal taxes, such as a flat tax, with very little in the way of qualifying tax deductions (except charity contributions and Roth IRAs retirement accounts) no one class would have a tactical advantage over the other now would they?

except some would have no money left to buy food

Wouldn't that be a good enough incentive among the poor to not drop out of school, graduate with the incentive to work towards a profitable career, rather than simply receiving a government assistance check?

 

[rightwinger]

Because you think you are owed something because you want it, need it, think you need it, or scream for it..

Sorry Charlie.. the only one responsible for you is you... I am not your mommy, your nanny, your allowance giver, your kisser of boo boos, nor your sugar daddy

Government is not charged to bring you or the group that you in out of poverty.. it is not there to redistribute upon your whim nor the whim of people who like the charity yet do not want to pay for it

Actually, because we are America

We are the wealthiest nation on earth and we can afford to treat the needy better. We do not want people begging door to door. We do not want people suffering from illness or injury. We want our old people taken care of

Great societies take care of their less fortunate. We do what we can to help people who are struggling.

Because you want it... you are not owed something because someone earns more...

And you spout out WE continually with this.. when it is others you want to foot the bill.. when you are not among those who you advocate taking from, there is no WE in this...

Great people give of themselves... great idiots think it is great to force others to contribute so you can give of them

What you WANT is a place to live, food for your children, a chance to educate your children

If you moan because your tax dollars have to pay for that, it is your own problem

Most Americans feel otherwise

 

[DiamondDave]

Actually, because we are America

We are the wealthiest nation on earth and we can afford to treat the needy better. We do not want people begging door to door. We do not want people suffering from illness or injury. We want our old people taken care of

Great societies take care of their less fortunate. We do what we can to help people who are struggling.

Because you want it... you are not owed something because someone earns more...

And you spout out WE continually with this.. when it is others you want to foot the bill.. when you are not among those who you advocate taking from, there is no WE in this...

Great people give of themselves... great idiots think it is great to force others to contribute so you can give of them

What you WANT is a place to live, food for your children, a chance to educate your children

If you moan because your tax dollars have to pay for that, it is your own problem

Most Americans feel otherwise

And nobody owes you those wants but YOU.... NOBODY.. not me, not the guy 4 states over, not the government, NOBODY

Now.. is it great of people to WILLINGLY give of themselves to help others?? YES.. but not to be FORCED to on the whim of someone else

and we don't live in a goddamn democracy of mob rule.. THANK GOD.... we have a constitution to protect us from your want of mob rule and redistribution

 

[Publius1787]

Actually, because we are America

We are the wealthiest nation on earth and we can afford to treat the needy better. We do not want people begging door to door. We do not want people suffering from illness or injury. We want our old people taken care of

Great societies take care of their less fortunate. We do what we can to help people who are struggling.

Because you want it... you are not owed something because someone earns more...

And you spout out WE continually with this.. when it is others you want to foot the bill.. when you are not among those who you advocate taking from, there is no WE in this...

Great people give of themselves... great idiots think it is great to force others to contribute so you can give of them

What you WANT is a place to live, food for your children, a chance to educate your children

If you moan because your tax dollars have to pay for that, it is your own problem

Most Americans feel otherwise

I fail to see where subsidizing births among the poor is a good thing. Unless you're a leftist attempting to breed yourself a dependent voting block.

 

[Foxfyre]

Help those who need helping

Easy enough

A noble and easy thing when it is voluntary and out of the goodness of your heart.

Not so noble and easy when we give people power to demand how much of our help they are entitled to.

Sounds good doesn't it?

Help people by popularity contest. If I like you....you will be helped
If not....too bad for you

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Do they?

Or do they throw bones that encourage people to become impoverished and/or remain in poverty lest they lose those bones thrown to them by the government? And who will those people then vote for? The guy who has a vision of greater, stronger, more prosperous America with more choices and opportunity for everybody to prosper? Or the guy who assures them they will continue to get those bones?

The wise will look at all the unintended consequences of the New Deal, the Great Society, and all the programs that have been built on them. If we listened to or read only stuff like you posted here, it is easy to believe that the partisan fanatic sees only the noble sounding titles on those programs and feels righteous and does not concern himself/herself with whether they are producing more negative consequences than anything good.

 

[Peterf]

Sounds good doesn't it?

Help people by popularity contest. If I like you....you will be helped
If not....too bad for you

But the government does more than help individuals. They help impoverished regions. They help impoverished sectors .......Old people, children, minorities, the disabled

Local charities cannot do that

Because you think you are owed something because you want it, need it, think you need it, or scream for it..

Sorry Charlie.. the only one responsible for you is you... I am not your mommy, your nanny, your allowance giver, your kisser of boo boos, nor your sugar daddy

Government is not charged to bring you or the group that you in out of poverty.. it is not there to redistribute upon your whim nor the whim of people who like the charity yet do not want to pay for it

Actually, because we are America

We are the wealthiest nation on earth and we can afford to treat the needy better. We do not want people begging door to door. We do not want people suffering from illness or injury. We want our old people taken care of

Great societies take care of their less fortunate. We do what we can to help people who are struggling.

Once again the "we are the wealthiest nation on earth" delusion.

No you are not. You are the most indebted nation on earth. You owe foreigners over $5 trillion. America is living way beyond its means. When the day dawns that people abroad are unwilling to lend you more money to support the life style to which you imagine you are entitled Americans will suffer a terrible shock.

 

[The T]

Because you want it... you are not owed something because someone earns more...

And you spout out WE continually with this.. when it is others you want to foot the bill.. when you are not among those who you advocate taking from, there is no WE in this...

Great people give of themselves... great idiots think it is great to force others to contribute so you can give of them

What you WANT is a place to live, food for your children, a chance to educate your children

If you moan because your tax dollars have to pay for that, it is your own problem

Most Americans feel otherwise

And nobody owes you those wants but YOU.... NOBODY.. not me, not the guy 4 states over, not the government, NOBODY

Now.. is it great of people to WILLINGLY give of themselves to help others?? YES.. but not to be FORCED to on the whim of someone else

and we don't live in a goddamn democracy of mob rule.. THANK GOD.... we have a constitution to protect us from your want of mob rule and redistribution

What Rightwinger portends is forced servitude
that flies in the face of what the Founders built into the Constitution and he knows it. The guy is a Socialist, period.