Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[danielpalos]

That sounds good in theory but face it. There will never be enough well paying jobs for people to not need social services. What if you cant even work?

That is what means tested welfare is for. Otherwise, unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed can help solve simple poverty.

 

[Asclepias]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

 

[Asclepias]

That sounds good in theory but face it. There will never be enough well paying jobs for people to not need social services. What if you cant even work?

That is what means tested welfare is for. Otherwise, unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed can help solve simple poverty.

I disagree. I was unemployed for a year and I dont even understand how people survive off of $900 a month.

 

[tigerred59]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

If business want to leave.... then your wages don't go up, do they? Bye?

Did you miss what happened in Venezuela when they made the same demands on business there?

View attachment 452635

Do you really want to be eating out of the garbage?

10 Billionaires Made Enough Money During The Pandemic To Vaccinate The Entire World
They could save millions from poverty with what’s left over, according to a new Oxfam report on inequality and the coronavirus.
By Amanda Schupak

Right, and the super wealthy were making jobs and wealth in Venezuela. Left-wing people chased them out of Venezuela. That's why they are eating garbage.

Saying 10 Billionaires made enough to vaccinate the world.... first I don't think that's true, but even if it was.... so what?

Really... so what? It's not your money. It's theirs. Can I make demands on what you do with your money? No? That's true of us all, right?

Say you give up a good job in NYC, and you move to Seattle, and say you work day a night, 7 days a week, sometimes until 4 AM in the morning, to ship out books. Your friends and relatives think you are insane. Literally they thing you have lost your mind, because you went from a plush office in New York City, to having a door, and actual wooden door as your desk.

But you work your butt off. You work 7 days a week, for 10 years, and build your company into an international company called Amazon.

Do I get to tell you what you do with your money?

Now if you want to give your money for vaccines, you are free to do so... but do I, and others like me, get to dictate what you do with your money, after you worked so hard?

So I ask again... so what if Bezo and others could vaccinate the world? So what?

By the way, I don't think that is even true.

The billionaires of the world, have most of their wealth in stock options. In other words, it's not cash.

For example, Bezos total cash compensation as CEO was only $81,840, just as it was in 1998.

Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos salary of $81,840 hasn't changed in decades

Amazon.com Inc. undefined filed its 2019 proxy statement Thursday, showing that Founder and Chief Executive Jeff Bezos is still making $81,840 a year in base...

www.marketwatch.com

​

Amazon.com Inc. filed its 2019 proxy statement Thursday, showing that Founder and Chief Executive Jeff Bezos is still making $81,840 a year in base salary, just as he has for decades. His base salary in 1998 was also $81,840. Bezos total compensation last year, which includes no stock awards, was $1.68 million. The $1.6 million in "other compensation" includes costs to the e-commerce and cloud giant of security arrangements for Bezos, in addition to security arrangements at business facilities and for business travel.​

In other words, a husband and wife truck driver team, earned more in real cash, than Jeff Bezos.

So where do people get this idea that Bezos made billions on billions to pay for vaccinations?

Because Bezos owns the stock to Amazon. After all.... he made the company. And those stocks go up and down in value.

Jeff Bezos

Jeff Bezos on the 2024 The Richest Person In Every State - Jeff Bezos founded e-commerce giant Amazon in 1994 out of his Seattle garage. Bezos stepped

www.forbes.com

What happens is, the value of the company goes up... and they say "Bezos made ##### Billion a minute!"... no he didn't. His company went up in value, but Bezos didn't see a single penny. Bezos hasn't had a pay raise in 20 years. He's still earning $81,840 a year, just like he did two decades ago.

The only thing that has increase, is that his compensation includes security and travel costs. Plane rides, and armed guards. Can you pay for vaccines with airline tickets and security cameras? No.

So factually speaking, the article isn't even accurate.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, dude, first stop comparing us to Vinzy, okay. Last I heard they were all headed to our borders anyways. Listen, we have got to stop putting the fears of job loss and amagadon in the minds of fools who are against this. We need to try it and if it doesn't work, oh well. But we are a nation of money greedy bastards and trust, everybody will be okay.

 

[White 6]

That is between you and the Union and your employer. I never worked anywhere the upper paid workers we on a multiple of lower paid worker, wage base and that included two union shops, though I was only union at one, back in 75 or 76.

Again, it’s not an automatic raise or figured directly as so many times the pay of another roster; but the Operations guys know what the lower level, and especially admin workers make.

They have made it clear to the Company and the Union that ANY significant increase in the pay for those admin/lower rosters will have to come with a similar increase for Operations and Design or it simply won’t pass a vote.

Hope you get dude.

 

[hadit]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

 

[tigerred59]

There's a big difference between paying a dollar an hour more for 10 years and having labor costs double overnight. You really ought to chill out on the hyperbole.

Might make sense if you hadn’t frozen low end wages for twelve years and given employers a 40 percent tax cut

Why is it, anything that benefits the working class in this nation is always met with skeptisism and attacks....affordable health care, increasing the min wage, a stimulus jobs program, etc...you name it, its an issue....but put something out there to help the fuckin rich and the poorest motherfuckers in the country is all for it???

 

[Wyatt earp]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job

 

[hadit]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

On top of that, 60%+ of the workforce makes $20/hr or less. I would expect all of them to demand a big raise. You don't want to go from making almost triple the MW after some years of hard work to making just a few dollars more than the unskilled kid off the street. The market would be disrupted.

No, the only way a MW works is if it's low enough to not make that much difference.

Where do these companies get the money from?

Customers. Customers who demand the lowest prices.

 

[Oldestyle]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

 

[Wyatt earp]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

Yes

 

[Asclepias]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

 

[hadit]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

The market adjusts
It always has

Low wage workers have had to adjust to not receiving a pay raise in twelve years. They adjusted by doing with less and assuming more debt.

Meanwhile, we gave their employers a 40 percent tax cut. None of which trickled down in higher wages and benefits

Of course it adjusts, but if you slam too big a change in too short a time, it can't. When it rains the ground absorbs the water. If it rains too hard, the water runs off and becomes a flood. See the difference?

 

[Andylusion]

There's a big difference between paying a dollar an hour more for 10 years and having labor costs double overnight. You really ought to chill out on the hyperbole.

Might make sense if you hadn’t frozen low end wages for twelve years and given employers a 40 percent tax cut

Right, the solution isn't to stay doing the same thing over and over and expecting more money.

The solution is to move up to better paying work. My wage hasn't been frozen. I don't know anyone whose wage has been frozen. No one.

If your wage has seriously been frozen for 12 years.... that's on you. That means you are doing wrong.

 

[MaryL]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Not sure how you came up with that weird analogy. Raising the minimum wage would be more like lowering the water level to where the person drowning could stand up.

I said I wasn't an economist. And apparently, neither are you. Raising the minimum wage drives UP the cost of living. And as the cost of living goes UP, things cost MORE. Businesses can't hire as many employees and people lose jobs and businesses close down. It's that simple. Whom ever advocates for this is not addressing economic reality.

 

[Asclepias]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

 

[tigerred59]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

The market adjusts
It always has

Low wage workers have had to adjust to not receiving a pay raise in twelve years. They adjusted by doing with less and assuming more debt.

Meanwhile, we gave their employers a 40 percent tax cut. None of which trickled down in higher wages and benefits

Of course it adjusts, but if you slam too big a change in too short a time, it can't. When it rains the ground absorbs the water. If it rains too hard, the water runs off and becomes a flood. See the difference?

And if you wait, you get a drought and then nobody win.....pass the shit and stop with the hyperbole's.

 

[Asclepias]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Not sure how you came up with that weird analogy. Raising the minimum wage would be more like lowering the water level to where the person drowning could stand up.

I said I wasn't an economist. And apparently, neither are you. Raising the minimum wage drives UP the cost of living. And as the cost of living goes UP, things cost MORE. Businesses can't hire as many employees and people lose jobs and businesses close down. It's that simple. Whom ever advocates for this is not addressing economic reality.

I realize you arent an economist. Obviously you haven't noticed the cost of living goes up regardless of the minimum wage. It goes up so business owners can make more profit for their share holders not because someone is getting paid minimum wage.

 

[tigerred59]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Thank you, thank you, thank you....what fuckin world do these cotton candy boot strap fucks live in? I work with some of the dumbest white motherfuckin in the financial market and some of the smartest black women around...guess who makes more, guess who works the hardest, guess who gets all the accolade and praise and guess who gets a fuckin pat on the head? A hint, its white motherfuckers that got it going on, not hard working minorities....get off the couch and get out more...this is AMERIKKKKKKKA MOTHERFUCKERS

 

[tigerred59]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Not sure how you came up with that weird analogy. Raising the minimum wage would be more like lowering the water level to where the person drowning could stand up.

I said I wasn't an economist. And apparently, neither are you. Raising the minimum wage drives UP the cost of living. And as the cost of living goes UP, things cost MORE. Businesses can't hire as many employees and people lose jobs and businesses close down. It's that simple. Whom ever advocates for this is not addressing economic reality.

I realize you arent an economist. Obviously you haven't noticed the cost of living goes up regardless of the minimum wage. It goes up so business owners can make more profit for their share holders not because someone is getting paid minimum wage.

and as a result of those increase profits, their workers should be paid more.