Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[hadit]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

Not worried. I've been laid off before, and that lasted a month before I landed another job at better pay, and I'm in a better position now where an increase in the MW wouldn't effect me unless it causes our clients to cut back. So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? That would seem to indicate you don't have much to contribute to the topic at hand, or you want to distract from it. Do you find it surprising that a sudden large increase in labor cost would result in layoffs? That's the topic, but if you want to talk about me, I suppose we can if that excites you.

 

[Asclepias]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Not sure how you came up with that weird analogy. Raising the minimum wage would be more like lowering the water level to where the person drowning could stand up.

I said I wasn't an economist. And apparently, neither are you. Raising the minimum wage drives UP the cost of living. And as the cost of living goes UP, things cost MORE. Businesses can't hire as many employees and people lose jobs and businesses close down. It's that simple. Whom ever advocates for this is not addressing economic reality.

I realize you arent an economist. Obviously you haven't noticed the cost of living goes up regardless of the minimum wage. It goes up so business owners can make more profit for their share holders not because someone is getting paid minimum wage.

and as a result of those increase profits, their workers should be paid more.

Maybe we should find some pictures that illustrates how it works so they can see it visually.

 

[Asclepias]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

Not worried. I've been laid off before, and that lasted a month before I landed another job at better pay, and I'm in a better position now where an increase in the MW wouldn't effect me unless it causes our clients to cut back. So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? That would seem to indicate you don't have much to contribute to the topic at hand, or you want to distract from it. Do you find it surprising that a sudden large increase in labor cost would result in layoffs? That's the topic, but if you want to talk about me, I suppose we can if that excites you.

" So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? "

I already told you. I find it extremely odd that someone that wasnt worried about being laid off would mention being laid off in 6 out of 6 of their examples fighting against raising the minimum wage.

 

[Oldestyle]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

 

[Asclepias]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

Yes

Show us with population figures included. Never mind. I know you cant because capitalism doesnt work like that. It needs people in poverty to work efficiently.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Not sure how you came up with that weird analogy. Raising the minimum wage would be more like lowering the water level to where the person drowning could stand up.

I said I wasn't an economist. And apparently, neither are you. Raising the minimum wage drives UP the cost of living. And as the cost of living goes UP, things cost MORE. Businesses can't hire as many employees and people lose jobs and businesses close down. It's that simple. Whom ever advocates for this is not addressing economic reality.

I realize you arent an economist. Obviously you haven't noticed the cost of living goes up regardless of the minimum wage. It goes up so business owners can make more profit for their share holders not because someone is getting paid minimum wage.

and as a result of those increase profits, their workers should be paid more.

Maybe would should find some pictures that illustrates how it works so they can see it visually.

From you?

 

[Asclepias]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

Lots of people have ambition. Not everyone with ambition can get a good job.

 

[tigerred59]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

Ace, I am so so sick of white people thinking all is fair and good out here in the real world...its not. Employers don't give a rats fuck about its workers, all they care about is the bottom line and that's okay, but don't come here talking fairness when it comes to wage earnings....I work with ppl of color and all ethnicity and trust and believe, its the white girls and gals thats making the big dollars and we all know it. Every time one of em threaten to quit, they get raises, a minority threatens, its can I help you to the door.

 

[Oldestyle]

I'm still laughing that someone really thinks "cancer" is what's keeping people on Minimum Wage!

 

[Wyatt earp]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

Yes

Show us with population figures included. Never mind. I know you cant because capitalism doesnt work like that. It needs people in poverty to work efficiently.

Describe poverty , someone making $20 bucks an hour in New York City is poor, someone making $20 in Alabama is middle class

 

[MaryL]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Not sure how you came up with that weird analogy. Raising the minimum wage would be more like lowering the water level to where the person drowning could stand up.

I said I wasn't an economist. And apparently, neither are you. Raising the minimum wage drives UP the cost of living. And as the cost of living goes UP, things cost MORE. Businesses can't hire as many employees and people lose jobs and businesses close down. It's that simple. Whom ever advocates for this is not addressing economic reality.

I realize you arent an economist. Obviously you haven't noticed the cost of living goes up regardless of the minimum wage. It goes up so business owners can make more profit not because someone is getting paid minimum wage.

Yes, I knew that already, but how is upping the minimum wage affecting this cost of living spiral? I honestly have no solution here. But raising the minimum wage is a stop gap effort and is counter productive.

 

[Oldestyle]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

I had forgotten about them but yes those people as well. Not everyone is built to hold down a job.

Then not everyone is going to eat and have a roof over their heads! Amazing how that works!

 

[Asclepias]

I'm still laughing that someone really thinks "cancer" is what's keeping people on Minimum Wage!

You better hope you have that same sense of humor when you cant work any more because of cancer.

 

[Oldestyle]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

Ace, I am so so sick of white people thinking all is fair and good out here in the real world...its not. Employers don't give a rats fuck about its workers, all they care about is the bottom line and that's okay, but don't come here talking fairness when it comes to wage earnings....I work with ppl of color and all ethnicity and trust and believe, its the white girls and gals thats making the big dollars and we all know it. Every time one of em threaten to quit, they get raises, a minority threatens, its can I help you to the door.

Wow...talk about someone who really doesn't have a clue!

 

[Wyatt earp]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

Lots of people have ambition. Not everyone with ambition can get a good job.

Of course you can, it's called determination

 

[Asclepias]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

I had forgotten about them but yes those people as well. Not everyone is built to hold down a job.

Then not everyone is going to eat and have a roof over their heads! Amazing how that works!

Thats how cave people conduct business. One trait of a healthy civilization is that you take care of those that cant take care of themselves.

 

[hadit]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

Not worried. I've been laid off before, and that lasted a month before I landed another job at better pay, and I'm in a better position now where an increase in the MW wouldn't effect me unless it causes our clients to cut back. So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? That would seem to indicate you don't have much to contribute to the topic at hand, or you want to distract from it. Do you find it surprising that a sudden large increase in labor cost would result in layoffs? That's the topic, but if you want to talk about me, I suppose we can if that excites you.

" So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? "

I already told you. I find it extremely odd that someone that wasnt worried about being laid off would mention being laid off in 6 out of 6 of their examples fighting against raising the minimum wage.

I mention it because it's one of the most likely things to happen when the government sharply increases the cost of labor with no compensation to offset the cost. Now, do you think layoffs would NOT happen if 60%+ of the labor force would either suddenly have a raise required by law or demand one because they lost ground they had spent years gaining? I find it interesting that I've repeatedly asked you that question and you thus far have refused to answer.

 

[Asclepias]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

Lots of people have ambition. Not everyone with ambition can get a good job.

Of course you can, it's called determination

You can be determined all you want but if they want to hire a white guy or girl you wont get hired unless you fit that mold.

 

[Asclepias]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

Not worried. I've been laid off before, and that lasted a month before I landed another job at better pay, and I'm in a better position now where an increase in the MW wouldn't effect me unless it causes our clients to cut back. So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? That would seem to indicate you don't have much to contribute to the topic at hand, or you want to distract from it. Do you find it surprising that a sudden large increase in labor cost would result in layoffs? That's the topic, but if you want to talk about me, I suppose we can if that excites you.

" So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? "

I already told you. I find it extremely odd that someone that wasnt worried about being laid off would mention being laid off in 6 out of 6 of their examples fighting against raising the minimum wage.

I mention it because it's one of the most likely things to happen when the government sharply increases the cost of labor with no compensation to offset the cost. Now, do you think layoffs would NOT happen if 60%+ of the labor force would either suddenly have a raise required by law or demand one because they lost ground they had spent years gaining? I find it interesting that I've repeatedly asked you that question and you thus far have refused to answer.

You didnt lose ground because someone else got a raise. Stop whining. I dont go to work to out earn anyone. You must be a sad person if you do.

 

[Oldestyle]

I'm still laughing that someone really thinks "cancer" is what's keeping people on Minimum Wage!

You better hope you have that same sense of humor when you cant work any more because of cancer.

I had colon cancer...worked through it. It sucked. I never used it as an excuse.