Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[Andylusion]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Exactly. The real solution is for people to do higher value work.

All the prices will adjust upward to fit the new minimum wage.

The real solution is for people to increase their value in the market.

Please get out more....people are busting thier ass's to keep the food chain going amist this pandemic and they deserve a decent wage. Stop with this analytical boojay commentary and get off your ass and see real people in this economy and not some Fox fed bullshit you get every fuckin night....Jezzzzus

When you say people are busting their ass's... I don't see it. Because the people who bust their ass, move up. They are not on minimum wage.

Honestly, every single person who is actually busting their ass, is moving up. They are not at McDonald's earning $7.25. If they are at McDonald's, they are in management, moving up, not working for $7.25.

The people who are still making minimum wage, are people who are doing something wrong.

As I said before, if you buy a $50 mower, you can make $50 to $100 per mow. The girl across the street from me, was running a daycare from her Condo, for $150 per kid. You can join a truck driving training class, and be pulling in $40,000 a year, by the end of the month. They will pay you, to get trained, and pay for your CDL.

I know a guy that tiled his kitchen. People called him to tile their kitchen. Then he had restaurants calling him to tile their stores. He was making more money tiling on Friday and Saturday, than he was making at a full time job. And by the way, he wasn't making minimum wage there either.

I'm not making minimum wage, and I haven't since I was a freshmen in high school.

How are all these millions of people, able to earn more than minimum wage, but you are suggesting these others can't? Why? Can you explain that to me?

Because even when I was at McDonald's.... even the least employee could earn more than minimum wage. All you had to do, to get a pay raise, was A: Show up on time. B: Show up every day (that you were supposed to). C: Come in clean, and smelling fresh, with a good appearence. D: get alone well with customers, co-workers, and management. Lastly: Do everything you are told to do, without back talking, without cussing, and without saying anything like "Not my job".

You do that, and you will get promoted. I've had managers BEG ME to keep working for them. Not because I'm awesome, or intelligent, or anything... but because I come in, do my job, and don't act like an arrogant jerk.

Every single person I have ever seen who was still on minimum wage, was on it because they couldn't do those things. They came in stinking, or without taking a shower, or couldn't wash their uniform, or they were late all the time, or they spent 25 minutes on their 15 minute break, or they cussed all the time, or they got into arguments with co-workers, or pissed of customers... or the worst and most common... they could not just say "Sure!" when a manager asked them to do something.

If anyone is still on minimum wage... they are doing something wrong. I have not earned minimum wage since I was a Freshman in high school, working part time at McDonald's.

 

[tigerred59]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

Yes

Show us with population figures included. Never mind. I know you cant because capitalism doesnt work like that. It needs people in poverty to work efficiently.

Describe poverty , someone making $20 bucks an hour in New York City is poor, someone making $20 in Alabama is middle class

I lived in San Diego 4 years after I left the Navy, this was in the mid 80's, I was making 7 bucks an hour back then working in a super market. We all get the location, location location debate.....still we need to raise the min wage, what is so hard about all this, just do it. I was making 2.10 an hour when I was 16, again, location, location, location.

 

[Oldestyle]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

Lots of people have ambition. Not everyone with ambition can get a good job.

Of course you can, it's called determination

You can be determined all you want but if they want to hire a white guy or girl you wont get hired unless you fit that mold.

Bullshit! Walk into any government office and look at who's working there. Do you really want to tell me that it's all white guys and girls?

 

[Asclepias]

I'm still laughing that someone really thinks "cancer" is what's keeping people on Minimum Wage!

You better hope you have that same sense of humor when you cant work any more because of cancer.

I had colon cancer...worked through it. It sucked. I never used it as an excuse.

Great for you. Some people simply cant work through cancer.

 

[tigerred59]

I'm still laughing that someone really thinks "cancer" is what's keeping people on Minimum Wage!

You better hope you have that same sense of humor when you cant work any more because of cancer.

I had colon cancer...worked through it. It sucked. I never used it as an excuse.

Gezz, God bless....my hubby of 30 plus years lost his colon to cancer and is now on a colo-bag. The most curable of all cancers....thank God you won the battle, my boo although still alive and kickin, did not.

 

[Andylusion]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

If business want to leave.... then your wages don't go up, do they? Bye?

Did you miss what happened in Venezuela when they made the same demands on business there?

View attachment 452635

Do you really want to be eating out of the garbage?

10 Billionaires Made Enough Money During The Pandemic To Vaccinate The Entire World
They could save millions from poverty with what’s left over, according to a new Oxfam report on inequality and the coronavirus.
By Amanda Schupak

Right, and the super wealthy were making jobs and wealth in Venezuela. Left-wing people chased them out of Venezuela. That's why they are eating garbage.

Saying 10 Billionaires made enough to vaccinate the world.... first I don't think that's true, but even if it was.... so what?

Really... so what? It's not your money. It's theirs. Can I make demands on what you do with your money? No? That's true of us all, right?

Say you give up a good job in NYC, and you move to Seattle, and say you work day a night, 7 days a week, sometimes until 4 AM in the morning, to ship out books. Your friends and relatives think you are insane. Literally they thing you have lost your mind, because you went from a plush office in New York City, to having a door, and actual wooden door as your desk.

But you work your butt off. You work 7 days a week, for 10 years, and build your company into an international company called Amazon.

Do I get to tell you what you do with your money?

Now if you want to give your money for vaccines, you are free to do so... but do I, and others like me, get to dictate what you do with your money, after you worked so hard?

So I ask again... so what if Bezo and others could vaccinate the world? So what?

By the way, I don't think that is even true.

The billionaires of the world, have most of their wealth in stock options. In other words, it's not cash.

For example, Bezos total cash compensation as CEO was only $81,840, just as it was in 1998.

Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos salary of $81,840 hasn't changed in decades

Amazon.com Inc. undefined filed its 2019 proxy statement Thursday, showing that Founder and Chief Executive Jeff Bezos is still making $81,840 a year in base...

www.marketwatch.com

​

Amazon.com Inc. filed its 2019 proxy statement Thursday, showing that Founder and Chief Executive Jeff Bezos is still making $81,840 a year in base salary, just as he has for decades. His base salary in 1998 was also $81,840. Bezos total compensation last year, which includes no stock awards, was $1.68 million. The $1.6 million in "other compensation" includes costs to the e-commerce and cloud giant of security arrangements for Bezos, in addition to security arrangements at business facilities and for business travel.​

In other words, a husband and wife truck driver team, earned more in real cash, than Jeff Bezos.

So where do people get this idea that Bezos made billions on billions to pay for vaccinations?

Because Bezos owns the stock to Amazon. After all.... he made the company. And those stocks go up and down in value.

Jeff Bezos

Jeff Bezos on the 2024 The Richest Person In Every State - Jeff Bezos founded e-commerce giant Amazon in 1994 out of his Seattle garage. Bezos stepped

www.forbes.com

What happens is, the value of the company goes up... and they say "Bezos made ##### Billion a minute!"... no he didn't. His company went up in value, but Bezos didn't see a single penny. Bezos hasn't had a pay raise in 20 years. He's still earning $81,840 a year, just like he did two decades ago.

The only thing that has increase, is that his compensation includes security and travel costs. Plane rides, and armed guards. Can you pay for vaccines with airline tickets and security cameras? No.

So factually speaking, the article isn't even accurate.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, dude, first stop comparing us to Vinzy, okay. Last I heard they were all headed to our borders anyways. Listen, we have got to stop putting the fears of job loss and amagadon in the minds of fools who are against this. We need to try it and if it doesn't work, oh well. But we are a nation of money greedy bastards and trust, everybody will be okay.

Us? I don't know you. I have no idea anything about your life. All I know is that I disagree with some of your claims, but that doesn't mean I am attacking... or making any accusation whatsoever against you personally.

Regardless, the article was wrong. I stand by everything I said as completely accurate and true.

 

[rightwinger]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

The market adjusts
It always has

Low wage workers have had to adjust to not receiving a pay raise in twelve years. They adjusted by doing with less and assuming more debt.

Meanwhile, we gave their employers a 40 percent tax cut. None of which trickled down in higher wages and benefits

Of course it adjusts, but if you slam too big a change in too short a time, it can't. When it rains the ground absorbs the water. If it rains too hard, the water runs off and becomes a flood. See the difference?

Let’s stop whining about employers who have profited off of frozen low end wages for twelve years and received a 40 percent tax cut that they didn’t trickle down to their employees.

Look at the sacrifices that low wage employees have had to make and that taxpayers have made to provide food, housing and healthcare to compensate for low wages

 

[tigerred59]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

Lots of people have ambition. Not everyone with ambition can get a good job.

Of course you can, it's called determination

You can be determined all you want but if they want to hire a white guy or girl you wont get hired unless you fit that mold.

Bullshit! Walk into any government office and look at who's working there. Do you really want to tell me that it's all white guys and girls?

LOL

 

[Wyatt earp]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

Yes

Show us with population figures included. Never mind. I know you cant because capitalism doesnt work like that. It needs people in poverty to work efficiently.

Describe poverty , someone making $20 bucks an hour in New York City is poor, someone making $20 in Alabama is middle class

I lived in San Diego 4 years after I left the Navy, this was in the mid 80's, I was making 7 bucks an hour back then working in a super market. We all get the location, location location debate.....still we need to raise the min wage, what is so hard about all this, just do it. I was making 2.10 an hour when I was 16, again, location, location, location.

You where making double the minimum wage ($3.35), why would someone making $14 hour today want to make minimum wage of $15 an hour?????

 

[Asclepias]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! What part of that concept can't you on the left grasp? If you're staying in poverty my question for you is...why? I've never worked a job that didn't have room for advancement. I've always advanced because I DON'T like poverty!

" For god's sake...getting more skills is what keeps you out of poverty! "

That's not necessarily true for a variety of reasons. In theory that sounds great but in reality (racism, physical and mental disabilities, cancer, etc etc) that only works for people that fit a certain mold.

Were you referring to people that have ambition? (eye roll)

Lots of people have ambition. Not everyone with ambition can get a good job.

Of course you can, it's called determination

You can be determined all you want but if they want to hire a white guy or girl you wont get hired unless you fit that mold.

Bullshit! Walk into any government office and look at who's working there. Do you really want to tell me that it's all white guys and girls?

Not sure you got what I saying. I will repeat it then you tell me what your reply had to do with what I said?

You can be determined all you want but if they want to hire a white guy or girl you wont get hired unless you fit that mold.

 

[dblack]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

 

[tigerred59]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

The market adjusts
It always has

Low wage workers have had to adjust to not receiving a pay raise in twelve years. They adjusted by doing with less and assuming more debt.

Meanwhile, we gave their employers a 40 percent tax cut. None of which trickled down in higher wages and benefits

Of course it adjusts, but if you slam too big a change in too short a time, it can't. When it rains the ground absorbs the water. If it rains too hard, the water runs off and becomes a flood. See the difference?

Let’s stop whining about employers who have profited off of frozen low end wages for twelve years and received a 40 percent tax cut that they didn’t trickle down to their employees.

Look at the sacrifices that low wage employees have had to make and that taxpayers have made to provide food, housing and healthcare to compensate for low wages

If it wasn't for these low lined underpaid workers, keeping the shelves filled and hospitals going, none of us would be here today. PAY THE MAN, AUNT BEE!!!

 

[Asclepias]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

Yes

Show us with population figures included. Never mind. I know you cant because capitalism doesnt work like that. It needs people in poverty to work efficiently.

Describe poverty , someone making $20 bucks an hour in New York City is poor, someone making $20 in Alabama is middle class

I lived in San Diego 4 years after I left the Navy, this was in the mid 80's, I was making 7 bucks an hour back then working in a super market. We all get the location, location location debate.....still we need to raise the min wage, what is so hard about all this, just do it. I was making 2.10 an hour when I was 16, again, location, location, location.

You where making double the minimum wage, why would someone making $14 hour today want to make minimum wage of $15 an hour?????

$40 more a week? $160 more a month?

 

[tigerred59]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

aAnd stuffing the pockets of the rich is irresistible to the GOP, next?

 

[Wyatt earp]

 

[Wyatt earp]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

Youre claiming that these companies have meaningful employment for every person on welfare in each state?

Yes

Show us with population figures included. Never mind. I know you cant because capitalism doesnt work like that. It needs people in poverty to work efficiently.

Describe poverty , someone making $20 bucks an hour in New York City is poor, someone making $20 in Alabama is middle class

I lived in San Diego 4 years after I left the Navy, this was in the mid 80's, I was making 7 bucks an hour back then working in a super market. We all get the location, location location debate.....still we need to raise the min wage, what is so hard about all this, just do it. I was making 2.10 an hour when I was 16, again, location, location, location.

You where making double the minimum wage, why would someone making $14 hour today want to make minimum wage of $15 an hour?????

$40 more a week? $160 more a month?

Do you just play stupid when it comes to purchasing power?

 

[hadit]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

Dont let them make you afraid of losing your job. Its all a bluff.

What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? I'm in a high demand field. I just know human nature, and it does not just go, "Okay, I'll double my labor costs and change nothing else whatsoever". Double the MW and jobs will be lost. Eventually, some will be replaced, but as always, it's the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder that gets hurt the most. It's that young kid who was just trying to build some work experience and make some money for school that will have to compete with experienced workers who got laid off and are now looking for any job they can get to keep things going.

" What makes you think I'm afraid of losing my job? "

You mentioned getting laid off in 6 out of 6 of your examples. You dont find that a little odd? Wouldnt you be good just mentioning it once?

No, I don't find it odd that people get laid off when the government arbitrarily increases the cost of labor. Would it surprise you that it happened?

I was asking didnt you find it odd for someone that claimed they were not worried about losing their job to mention it in 6 out of 6 of their examples. You are obviously worried but I promise you that you wont lose your job.

Not worried. I've been laid off before, and that lasted a month before I landed another job at better pay, and I'm in a better position now where an increase in the MW wouldn't effect me unless it causes our clients to cut back. So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? That would seem to indicate you don't have much to contribute to the topic at hand, or you want to distract from it. Do you find it surprising that a sudden large increase in labor cost would result in layoffs? That's the topic, but if you want to talk about me, I suppose we can if that excites you.

" So, why are you trying to make the argument about me? "

I already told you. I find it extremely odd that someone that wasnt worried about being laid off would mention being laid off in 6 out of 6 of their examples fighting against raising the minimum wage.

I mention it because it's one of the most likely things to happen when the government sharply increases the cost of labor with no compensation to offset the cost. Now, do you think layoffs would NOT happen if 60%+ of the labor force would either suddenly have a raise required by law or demand one because they lost ground they had spent years gaining? I find it interesting that I've repeatedly asked you that question and you thus far have refused to answer.

You didnt lose ground because someone else got a raise. Stop whining.

Okay, consider this case. A young woman works for 3 years at a job, starting at $7/hr and works up to $15/hr. She's not rich, but making about double the MW and feels justified pride in doing so because she's earned it. Now Quid Pro strikes and she's making MW after gaining expertise and training and working for years. In her mind she's not lost ground, especially now that prices are going to go up and her pay won't be worth as much as it was? Tell us true, are you afraid to answer the simple question?

 

[rightwinger]

There's a big difference between paying a dollar an hour more for 10 years and having labor costs double overnight. You really ought to chill out on the hyperbole.

Might make sense if you hadn’t frozen low end wages for twelve years and given employers a 40 percent tax cut

Right, the solution isn't to stay doing the same thing over and over and expecting more money.

The solution is to move up to better paying work. My wage hasn't been frozen. I don't know anyone whose wage has been frozen. No one.

If your wage has seriously been frozen for 12 years.... that's on you. That means you are doing wrong.

You keep assuming people work minimum wage for life.....They don’t. Some move on to college and professional salaries.

What happens when they work minimum wage to pay for college (I did ) and that wage does not keep up with costs ?
Those workers assume debt because their wages do not keep up with inflation. All so employers make more profit

 

[dblack]

Minimum wage is a horseshit issue. But, it stirs up the dummies and gives government more power - so it's irresistible to Democrats.

aAnd stuffing the pockets of the rich is irresistible to the GOP, next?

That's it? "The Republicans are just as bad"? Weak.

The better comparison, if you want to point to equally stupid Republican policies, would be the border wall. It's an empty gesture that placates their idiot base.

 

[Andylusion]

There's a big difference between paying a dollar an hour more for 10 years and having labor costs double overnight. You really ought to chill out on the hyperbole.

Might make sense if you hadn’t frozen low end wages for twelve years and given employers a 40 percent tax cut

Why is it, anything that benefits the working class in this nation is always met with skeptisism and attacks....affordable health care, increasing the min wage, a stimulus jobs program, etc...you name it, its an issue....but put something out there to help the fuckin rich and the poorest motherfuckers in the country is all for it???

Because it factually does not benefit the working class. I'm working class. I have never made more than $30,000 in a single year. And that was 2019, and that was a record year. Most of my life I made only $20,000 a year.

The policies that have been pushed here have never helped me in my whole life. And I have personally witnessed it harm me.

Again, all the way back to McDonald's. I was there when the minimum wage went up. It didn't help me at all. In fact it harmed me.

How did the minimum wage harm me? Well they laid off 3 people at the store, because the minimum wage went up, and couldn't afford them.

So how did the store function, without those 3 people? The rest of us, had to work more. We had to cover, for the loss of those three people.

We are opposing this, because it does not help people. If it really helped me, I would be for it.

In fact, if there was no negative result from increasing the minimum wage, why stop at $15/hour? Why not $20? or $50? it doesn't work. That's the problem. The minimum wage always harms. It's just a fact. Never helps.