simple question for the WTC collapse

[Ernie S.]

the upper tower portion must be there because you say it is there?

one problem with that...

it isn't there.

Did the Enterprise show up and beam it to the cargo bay?

 

[eots]

the upper tower portion must be there because you say it is there?

one problem with that...

it isn't there.

Did the Enterprise show up and beam it to the cargo bay?

Now you are just being silly...

 

[Gamolon]

But without going into the politics of what happened there (a real can of worms) stop for a moment and realize that this reply from Gomolon is still relying on the weight of the upper portion of the tower to crush the lower floors.

You have that wrong. I am not saying the "upper section" crushed the "lower section" like a foot stomping on the top of an empty aluminum can. The "upper section" tore/sheared the "lower section" apart. As the debris pile descended, it ripped the connections apart. That is why you see the perimeter column sections "peeling away from the building. As the "upper section" descended, it too was sheard/torn apart, yet still descended as a debris pile.

My top post is pointing out that the upper portion did no such thing as it was blown to bits while the bottom portion was still half there.

Wrong.

The last half of each implosion has only a demolition wave running down those structures, there is no top portion crushing them.

No. The sheared/torn apart sections was falling inside the perimeter columns tearing everything apart.

Look at the pictures, the top portion is part of that huge explosion of concrete and I-beams being blown out in every direction, that's where the top portion is, there is no weight bearing on the lower portions of the building for the bottom 50 stories of each implosion.

Are you telling me that there is no way any column could have been pushed into a parabolic trajectory by the descending debris? Please show me a video of a column being ejected SIDEWAYS and not falling in a parabolic trajectory.

 

[Gamolon]

The structure is designed to hold its own weight + a lot of people (that had already left the tower when it collapsed) + class four hurricane winds.

First, can you tell me the difference between the upper section as a static load and the upper section as a load in motion (downward)? Do you understand the difference between standing on a floor scale and dropping from twelve feet onto that same scale? What would the scale register for weight in each instance?

Second, the upper section and lower section weren't solid blocks. They were structures composed of many components, including CONNECTIONS. As the upper block descended, it tore/sheared through the lower sections as the connections could not withstand the force of the weight dropping on it. That is why you see the experimenter columns peeling away from the building. The upper section was also torn/sheared apart as it descending, but that does not change the weight. Think of gravel. If I drop a pile of gravel on you, it'll crush you flat.

A structure is designed to function as a whole. Engineers cannot design and analyse a structure for every single possible failure permutation. For example. They would not have looked a what would happen to the structure if one core columns on floor 86 failed. Or two columns on floor 86. 23 columns on 86. 23 core columns and 15 perimeter columns. How about 10 core columns on floor 86 and 10 core columns on floor 87? See the point?

Once you fail a component in a structure, the remaining components have to take up that load now.

Since the structural integrity of the lower floors were 100% intact, this idea that the weight of the upper portions of the towers somehow collapsed the lower portions makes absolutely no sense... not to anyone with any understanding of structural failure.

You cannot think of the lower portion as a WHOLE. The increased load that the upper section created when it descended had to pass through each component of the structure to get to the foundations resting on bedrock. The stress created sheared the connections. That's why you see bent or sheared floor truss connections on perimeter and core columns.

I always ask this. How do you expect these floor truss supports circled in red...


...to support this descending upon them?

wouldint a collapse of this nature leave the core intact ..and take longer than secs ?..

Why would it? The core was comprised of steel that had connections also. There were beams, columns, elevator motors, elevator control panels, pieces of the hat truss, etc, that would have impacted the core components and sheared them apart.

The debris fell around the coe after a certain point and left a part of the damaged core standing, which eventually collapsed also. The core was not able to stand on it's own. standing,

 

[Gamolon]

wouldint a collapse of this nature leave the core intact ..and take longer than secs ?..

It took more than "free fall" timing for the entire towers to collapse.

 

[Gamolon]

If you stop and examine these pictures, try to take in the scale of this explosion. The dust cloud that rose up from these two implosions managed to travel for 125 miles before it completely dissipated. Look at what is being blown outward in every direction; giant chunks of concrete and huge steel I-beams.]

You are SO wrong.

She me a VIDEO of these huge steel columns and huge chunks of concrete being ejected HORIZONTALLY instead of a parabolic trajectory. Still photos can't be used to debate horizontal ejection due to an explosion vs. a parabolic trajectory due to being pushed sideways by debris.

Do you realize how much gypsum board were in those towers? Have you ever worked with drywall? How much dust it creates? It was just concrete and steel. How many of those "steel beams" are aluminum cladding that came apart from the perimeter columns?

 

[Gamolon]

You can not see the charges in the pictures, but you can plainly see what they are doing to the structure.

So, Todd, how about you point out where the top portion of the tower is at the midway point in the demolition wave ... do you see anything there at all bearing down upon the lower floors. It obviously is there at the onset of demolition, but what happened to it, say 5-6 seconds into the implosion?

It was sheared apart as it descended! It was turned into a massive pile of debris consisting of steel, concrete, and everything else within those towers.

 

[Ernie S.]

the upper tower portion must be there because you say it is there?

one problem with that...

it isn't there.

Did the Enterprise show up and beam it to the cargo bay?

Now you are just being silly...

No sillier than you and OP.

Explain how the hundreds of people that had to be involved in a conspiracy of this magnitude have been kept silent for 12 years.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You can not see the charges in the pictures, but you can plainly see what they are doing to the structure.

So, Todd, how about you point out where the top portion of the tower is at the midway point in the demolition wave ... do you see anything there at all bearing down upon the lower floors. It obviously is there at the onset of demolition, but what happened to it, say 5-6 seconds into the implosion?

It was sheared apart as it descended! It was turned into a massive pile of debris consisting of steel, concrete, and everything else within those towers.

So it broke the laws of physics...interesting....

 

[eots]

First, can you tell me the difference between the upper section as a static load and the upper section as a load in motion (downward)? Do you understand the difference between standing on a floor scale and dropping from twelve feet onto that same scale? What would the scale register for weight in each instance?

Second, the upper section and lower section weren't solid blocks. They were structures composed of many components, including CONNECTIONS. As the upper block descended, it tore/sheared through the lower sections as the connections could not withstand the force of the weight dropping on it. That is why you see the experimenter columns peeling away from the building. The upper section was also torn/sheared apart as it descending, but that does not change the weight. Think of gravel. If I drop a pile of gravel on you, it'll crush you flat.

A structure is designed to function as a whole. Engineers cannot design and analyse a structure for every single possible failure permutation. For example. They would not have looked a what would happen to the structure if one core columns on floor 86 failed. Or two columns on floor 86. 23 columns on 86. 23 core columns and 15 perimeter columns. How about 10 core columns on floor 86 and 10 core columns on floor 87? See the point?

Once you fail a component in a structure, the remaining components have to take up that load now.



You cannot think of the lower portion as a WHOLE. The increased load that the upper section created when it descended had to pass through each component of the structure to get to the foundations resting on bedrock. The stress created sheared the connections. That's why you see bent or sheared floor truss connections on perimeter and core columns.

I always ask this. How do you expect these floor truss supports circled in red...


...to support this descending upon them?

wouldint a collapse of this nature leave the core intact ..and take longer than secs ?..

Why would it? The core was comprised of steel that had connections also. There were beams, columns, elevator motors, elevator control panels, pieces of the hat truss, etc, that would have impacted the core components and sheared them apart.

The debris fell around the coe after a certain point and left a part of the damaged core standing, which eventually collapsed also. The core was not able to stand on it's own. standing,

lol it left a sliver of the core that stood for 2 secs then oddly collapsed into itself instead of falling over
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYTZtkTbV4]WTC 1 core collapse - YouTube[/ame]

 

[eots]

Did the Enterprise show up and beam it to the cargo bay?

Now you are just being silly...

No sillier than you and OP.

Explain how the hundreds of people that had to be involved in a conspiracy of this magnitude have been kept silent for 12 years.

where do you get the number hundreds ? and regardless physics is not interested in your assumptions on human psycolgy

 

[eots]

wouldint a collapse of this nature leave the core intact ..and take longer than secs ?..

It took more than "free fall" timing for the entire towers to collapse.

how much more ?

 

[freedombecki]

it was blown to bits.

"I can't see any top portion of tower doing this herculean crushing of the entire structure below it. That's because the demolition wave began at points of impact and went in both directions; down and up, and since the towers were struck in the upper portions, the tops were blown to pieces by the time the bottoms were still only half blown to pieces. So, there was no upper tower portion left bearing down upon the lower portions of the tower."

This version filmed by some office ladies across the way doesn't agree with your one-framed assessment.

[ame=http://youtu.be/wNNTcHq5Tzk]September 11 2001 Video. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Hi, I'm Johnny Knoxville.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

it was blown to bits.

"I can't see any top portion of tower doing this herculean crushing of the entire structure below it. That's because the demolition wave began at points of impact and went in both directions; down and up, and since the towers were struck in the upper portions, the tops were blown to pieces by the time the bottoms were still only half blown to pieces. So, there was no upper tower portion left bearing down upon the lower portions of the tower."

This version filmed by some office ladies across the way doesn't agree with your one-framed assessment.

[ame=http://youtu.be/wNNTcHq5Tzk]September 11 2001 Video. - YouTube[/ame]

That's true. in the office ladies across the street version, they missed the "collapse" sequence entirely.

 

[Ernie S.]

Now you are just being silly...

No sillier than you and OP.

Explain how the hundreds of people that had to be involved in a conspiracy of this magnitude have been kept silent for 12 years.

where do you get the number hundreds ? and regardless physics is not interested in your assumptions on human psycolgy

But cover-ups ARE dependent on human psychology.

There had to be hundreds of people involved in planning, financing, executing and covering up so massive a conspiracy.
The clean up crew alone involved hundreds of construction workers. The volunteers and first responders, surviving police, firemen and paramedics, dog handlers are another thousand or more.
Either every single person believed in and supported a conspiracy or BILLIONS of dollars changed hands. Do you see any NYC cops arriving at work in chauffeur driven limos?
Retired paramedics living on Fisher Island in Miami?

 

[Gamolon]

You can not see the charges in the pictures, but you can plainly see what they are doing to the structure.

So, Todd, how about you point out where the top portion of the tower is at the midway point in the demolition wave ... do you see anything there at all bearing down upon the lower floors. It obviously is there at the onset of demolition, but what happened to it, say 5-6 seconds into the implosion?

It was sheared apart as it descended! It was turned into a massive pile of debris consisting of steel, concrete, and everything else within those towers.

So it broke the laws of physics...interesting....

What laws of physics were broken?

 

[Gamolon]

wouldint a collapse of this nature leave the core intact ..and take longer than secs ?..

Why would it? The core was comprised of steel that had connections also. There were beams, columns, elevator motors, elevator control panels, pieces of the hat truss, etc, that would have impacted the core components and sheared them apart.

The debris fell around the coe after a certain point and left a part of the damaged core standing, which eventually collapsed also. The core was not able to stand on it's own. standing,

lol it left a sliver of the core that stood for 2 secs then oddly collapsed into itself instead of falling over
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYTZtkTbV4]WTC 1 core collapse - YouTube[/ame]

A "sliver" eots?

 

[Gamolon]

wouldint a collapse of this nature leave the core intact ..and take longer than secs ?..

It took more than "free fall" timing for the entire towers to collapse.

how much more ?

Portions of each core stood 15 to 25 seconds AFTER collapse initiation.

 

[eots]

Why would it? The core was comprised of steel that had connections also. There were beams, columns, elevator motors, elevator control panels, pieces of the hat truss, etc, that would have impacted the core components and sheared them apart.

The debris fell around the coe after a certain point and left a part of the damaged core standing, which eventually collapsed also. The core was not able to stand on it's own. standing,

lol it left a sliver of the core that stood for 2 secs then oddly collapsed into itself instead of falling over
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYTZtkTbV4]WTC 1 core collapse - YouTube[/ame]

A "sliver" eots?

I find your static picture highly questionably