Sin

[Luddly Neddite]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

 

[miketx]

I really believe that a great sin was voting for Obama. Really.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Not sure what you are getting at? how do you not believe in Sin?

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Well den...

... if somebody walked up an' smacked ya inna mouth...

... fer no reason at all...

... wouldn't dat be a sin?"

 

[norwegen]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Not sure what you are getting at? how do you not believe in Sin?

A sin is an offense against God. If you don't believe in God, then . . .

 

[Wyatt earp]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Not sure what you are getting at? how do you not believe in Sin?

A sin is an offense against God. If you don't believe in God, then . . .

What does the basics have to do with god....


Not killing, stealing is kind of obvious don't you think?


.

 

[norwegen]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Not sure what you are getting at? how do you not believe in Sin?

A sin is an offense against God. If you don't believe in God, then . . .

What does the basics have to do with god....


Not killing, stealing is kind of obvious don't you think?


.

Murder and theft are unethical, immoral, and criminal (well, not theft if you're a liberal who believes in "benevolence" programs).

To a Christian, they are also sinful.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Well, if you compare the 7 Noahide commandments with The 10 Commandments, you would see that they say pretty much the same thing, it's just that in the 10 Commandments, there are also laws in there about recognizing who God is.

Now, the first 3 are for us to recognize who God is, not disrespect Him in any way, and not to make idols, because those idols could be seen as worshiping something other than Him. Now why are those first 3 important? Well, if you don't know who God is, how can you ask Him for help? If you insult Him or worship something other than Him, do you really think He's gonna pay attention to you if you disrespect Him?

The rest of the 10? Simple rules for survival.

Thou shalt not murder. Why? If you murder someone, then they may have a loved one that will come after you.

Thou shalt not steal. Why? If you steal from someone, they may end up killing you.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Why? Mess around with someone else's SO and see what happens.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Why? If you lie, it may get you killed, whether it's lying to cops, friends, family, or your doctor. If they don't know the truth, they can't help you out.

Honor thy Father and Mother. Why? They brought you into this world, they can take you out.

Thou shalt not covet. Why? If you start coveting something, you will want it badly enough that you might steal or kill to get it.

Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy. Why? If you don't take a break once in a while to take time out for yourself and Father, you will die from stress.

Basically, they were created to keep your community, as well as yourself, safe and harmonious. And, I think they are pretty decent rules to live by.

BTW..................know what the Original Sin was? Not taking responsibility for your actions. God asked Adam why he ate, and Adam said it was because of Eve. God then asked Eve why she ate, and she said it was because of the snake. We'd probably all still be in Eden if Adam and Eve had simply admitted that they ate and accepted the consequences for their actions, but they didn't.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Not sure what you are getting at? how do you not believe in Sin?

A sin is an offense against God. If you don't believe in God, then . . .

What does the basics have to do with god....


Not killing, stealing is kind of obvious don't you think?


.

Murder and theft are unethical, immoral, and criminal (well, not theft if you're a liberal who believes in "benevolence" programs).

To a Christian, they are also sinful.

I always thought the reason why liberals hate them is because of

Tho shall not covet


..

That's all they do.


.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

For a non Christian your points are well taken.
When Jesus said I will have mercy and not sacrifice, He was saying basically to clean up your act before coming to Church.
As far as the burning in hell goes.
I think it's a little bit of hyperbole to get people to repent.
But I will say this. A non believer will never be able to go where God and Christ are. And you may feel like you're in hell when you see you can't associate with such a magnificent Person.

 

[MarathonMike]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Well, it's a New Year and I am in total agreement with you on this. Sin forgiveness IMO is the tease that lures people that can't control their bad behavior. I've posted before about my former business partner who was a born again Christian that cheated on his wife and stole me and our company blind. I also know many very noble Christians so I'm not saying they are all like him. I am saying using religion as a drive through Sin 'car wash' is bullshit.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

 

[BreezeWood]

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

.

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

for christianity et all ...


the actual religion they ignore is, The Triumph of Good vs Evil.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation. And if you are wicked, based on the fact that you have sinned, then we are all wicked. You are in good company. But here is the thing,
Sin separates us from our Father. Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness in it's place. It is a gift.
There is no angry God just waiting to send you to hell for breaking a rule. Instead there is a loving Father who showers us with favor and love we don't deserve. He will forgive anything you've done if you ask. He has the ability to do that because while the punishment for sin is death, the sentence was carried out on Jesus, in our place. Sin is a blood issue. You can't work it away. It requires a pure blood transfusion.
What happens when you accept the gift is that God puts your sins far behind him and remembers them no more. You look like His Son to Him. And He welcomes you home when it's time, for His Son's sake. Because it was His Son that died to get us there.

 

[HaShev]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Welcome to the proselytized club, party of 4 Billion.
My personal favorite moments was when a guy who just got out of jail, had the nerve to preach to me, a stranger who keeps the commands, doesn't drink nor take substances, that I needed to be saved.
Another comes to mind is when receiving those
" are you saved " panthlets on my door.
So I kindly returned the favor and placed, on the church office door in their same solicitation bag, my commentaries on Jesus being Lucifer and Why they should not approach people of higher morals & standards then them.
Like their being condescending while as my essay is titled: are "Condemning & Judging Those of Greater Morals & Standards".
THE MORALITY LESSON WAS as follows:

Morality in Society:

(The following is from: J Dymond's book "Essays of the Principles of Morality" 1896 in Philadelphia -old Seminary Material - essay 1 chapter 2- Pg 5.)

One Proposes "the Understanding" as the means, but every observer perceives that "the understandings" of men are often contradictory to their decisions. Indeed many of those who now think their understandings dictates the rectitude of a given action, will find that the understandings of the intelligent pagans of antiquity came to very different conclusions...... Good men find in practice of life, some sympathy, but these emotions are frequently unsafe and sometimes erroneous guides of their conduct. Besides, the emotions are to regulated and restrained; which of itself intimates the necessity of a regulating and restraining, that is, of a superior Power.

To say we should act according to the eternal & and necessary differences of things is to advance a proposition which NINE out of TEN people do not understand and of course can not adopt in practice; and of the few who do understand it, perhaps an equal number can not apply it, with even tolerable facility to the concerns of life. (-end- of the book quote)
Proof of this was in a poll study a ministry recently did which showed faithful Christians behaved no differently then the rest of society. Conclusion: one can talk the talk but it means nothing if you walk off the course...thus the only teaching should be that which brings people successfully in the path to righteousness...so if present teachings don't achieve this then it's time for new wine. The kind that brings the Teshuva (the return to God)

More on Society & Religion:

W.R. Alger 1867 Preface to the book "Genius of Solitude"

"The majority of men in every age are superficial in character and brittle in purpose, and lead undedicated lives; swarming together in buzzing crowds in all haunts of amusement or places of low competition, caring little for anything but gossip and pastime, the titillation of the senses, and the gratification of conceit."
(their EGO)

On Pg 189. he goes on to quote Gotama (Buddhism)f his four fundamental propositions:
"There is sorrow, every living creature feels it, Deliverance is desirable , Pure knowledge is the only possible deliverance."


In this he goes on to talk about the worthless ceremony in religions, which I agree should be traded in for substance and more precise formula for salvation. More practical virtues would be a system of Justice, Benevolence, Reverence, and applying a system of bestowing :
(People forget that the internet offers that ability to offer free ones services and time to help others, and bring others the enjoyment of their free programs, games, software, art, advice, teaching, experiences, networking, etc.).


Those of Greater Morals & Standards Being Tempted:

People aproach others in chat rooms and discussion boards and on the street or knocking on doors trying to change people who adhere to high standards into their own lesser moral standards & lesser ethics.
They want them to stray from the law and from G-d all so thay can justify their belief in their idol and acceptance into their club or group. This is like what Paul did. Since Paul felt he couldn't live up to the high standard he rid the law so he could be saved. That would be like playing Monopoly and changing the rules to the game half way in order to win the game or stick around the game to play longer. The problem is life is no game and changing the rules is serious business. You can't change the guidlines set by those who already know what's best and what the future holds.


It's why people ask that infamous question; "why is life so cruel".

It's cruel because you decide to play by your own rules and not that which is shared with you to guide you to a better way of life. You must remember you are the transgressor, and by coming to the people who don't transgress and asking them to sink to your level is clearly wrong. If you can't keep G-d's Law then that is your problem but don't go searching to take a bunch a people down with you.

Thus, the injury which is done to humanity by the Christian church in
"establishing it", is negative to society.

You not only tempt some men to equivication or hypocrisy, but exclude from the office others of sounder integrity. When they insist on the purity and sanctity of the moral law they violate the law themselves. They also end up lowering the standard in other issues like handling sin and following the commandments. Their problem is also that they end up playing judge and playing God in judge and jury, often times frowning down upon people who might have better understanding or purity than those imposing their impressions. By trying to convert people who already have G-d and his Laws they are bringing them down that Ladder instead of up it, and they also admit they worship another G-d other then the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

 

[Bonzi]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Everyone sins.
But if you do not believe in God, sin is moot and it should not bother you what people say because, as an atheist, talking about "sin" is like talking about Santa Claus....

 

[featherlite]

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

Is it the actual word sin that you don't like. You might be a great person but I'm pretty sure you still do wrong. No one reaches perfection while here, even if you have stellar citizenship, good deeds and ability to not commit murder lol.
We are all in need of repentance and forgiveness. And no that doesn't mean just lip service but a change in heart and behavior.

Maybe he/she was referring to your lack of fear in God, as if your so good God will never call you into account.
In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. (Psa 10:4)

...but you are an atheist.

 

[HaShev]

Yeah and atheists never bitch and moan when their car is stolen, house broken into, or
someone messes with their spouse.
Go figure!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

Is it the actual word sin that you don't like. You might be a great person but I'm pretty sure you still do wrong. No one reaches perfection while here, even if you have stellar citizenship, good deeds and ability to not commit murder lol.
We are all in need of repentance and forgiveness. And no that doesn't mean just lip service but a change in heart and behavior.

Maybe he/she was referring to your lack of fear in God, as if your so good God will never call you into account.
In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. (Psa 10:4)

...but you are an atheist.

Its not whether I like or dislike the word. Sure, I've done wrong and will again but yes - since I'm atheist, the threat of eternity in hell yadda yadda is meaningless. I try not to harm others and I try to do good works.

No, I don't need "repentance and forgiveness". I answer to my self and my ethics/morals. Don't need a god to tell me what is right or wrong.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Everyone sins.
But if you do not believe in God, sin is moot and it should not bother you what people say because, as an atheist, talking about "sin" is like talking about Santa Claus....

Santa does not know who's been naughty or nice and neither does "god". That does not mean that sin and Santa are the same or comparable.

Good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation. And if you are wicked, based on the fact that you have sinned, then we are all wicked. You are in good company. But here is the thing,
Sin separates us from our Father. Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness in it's place. It is a gift.
There is no angry God just waiting to send you to hell for breaking a rule. Instead there is a loving Father who showers us with favor and love we don't deserve. He will forgive anything you've done if you ask. He has the ability to do that because while the punishment for sin is death, the sentence was carried out on Jesus, in our place. Sin is a blood issue. You can't work it away. It requires a pure blood transfusion.
What happens when you accept the gift is that God puts your sins far behind him and remembers them no more. You look like His Son to Him. And He welcomes you home when it's time, for His Son's sake. Because it was His Son that died to get us there.

Ya know - you're one of the nastiest people on this board. I've read the really vicious, evil stuff you write. You're an ugly person and no way do you have anything to tell me or anyone else about good, evil, sin. Go work on the fucking log in your own eye and the glass house you live in.

BTW, this is the very thing I SO dislike about catholics and christians - they believe they can be the worst human beings on the planet but because they acceptedgodastheirpersonalsavior, there's a soft cushy place on a cloud waiting for them.

My idea of hell would be spending eternity in the same place as the likes of you.