Sin

[Votto]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Wait....wut?

You say you don't believe in sin and then turn around and say how you don't really sin like other people?

Sure, weed is legal, but it's still not such a good idea to smoke.

 

[Votto]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Not sure what you are getting at? how do you not believe in Sin?

A sin is an offense against God. If you don't believe in God, then . . .

What does the basics have to do with god....


Not killing, stealing is kind of obvious don't you think?


.

Murder and theft are unethical, immoral, and criminal (well, not theft if you're a liberal who believes in "benevolence" programs).

To a Christian, they are also sinful.

I always thought the reason why liberals hate them is because of

Tho shall not covet


..

That's all they do.


.

Dims believe in sin. They just have a new list of them and don't call it sin nor refer to God.

For the modern Dim, salvation still needs to be achieved but it has nothing to do with the spiritual realm or living forever. Instead, it has to do with saving "mother earth" via the government and having the government save the poor folk at the same time. The government is their shepherd and lord and savior, which is why they view Trump's election with such disdain. Electing Trump is akin to eternal damnation to them.

 

[featherlite]

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

Is it the actual word sin that you don't like. You might be a great person but I'm pretty sure you still do wrong. No one reaches perfection while here, even if you have stellar citizenship, good deeds and ability to not commit murder lol.
We are all in need of repentance and forgiveness. And no that doesn't mean just lip service but a change in heart and behavior.

Maybe he/she was referring to your lack of fear in God, as if your so good God will never call you into account.
In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. (Psa 10:4)

...but you are an atheist.

Its not whether I like or dislike the word. Sure, I've done wrong and will again but yes - since I'm atheist, the threat of eternity in hell yadda yadda is meaningless. I try not to harm others and I try to do good works.

No, I don't need "repentance and forgiveness". I answer to my self and my ethics/morals. Don't need a god to tell me what is right or wrong.

Most of us know right from wrong, that's not the point....guess you are good to go.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Wait....wut?

You say you don't believe in sin and then turn around and say how you don't really sin like other people?

Sure, weed is legal, but it's still not such a good idea to smoke.

Not what I said at all and indeed, I would take that a step further and say I don't believe most people "SIN".

If one does not believe in SIN then its not possible for that person to SIN. Possible to do wrong but that's all it is anyway. You can call it "sin" if you like.

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

Is it the actual word sin that you don't like. You might be a great person but I'm pretty sure you still do wrong. No one reaches perfection while here, even if you have stellar citizenship, good deeds and ability to not commit murder lol.
We are all in need of repentance and forgiveness. And no that doesn't mean just lip service but a change in heart and behavior.

Maybe he/she was referring to your lack of fear in God, as if your so good God will never call you into account.
In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. (Psa 10:4)

...but you are an atheist.

Its not whether I like or dislike the word. Sure, I've done wrong and will again but yes - since I'm atheist, the threat of eternity in hell yadda yadda is meaningless. I try not to harm others and I try to do good works.

No, I don't need "repentance and forgiveness". I answer to my self and my ethics/morals. Don't need a god to tell me what is right or wrong.

Most of us know right from wrong, that's not the point....guess you are good to go.

Yes, most know right from wrong. Its how we behave that matters.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Everyone sins.
But if you do not believe in God, sin is moot and it should not bother you what people say because, as an atheist, talking about "sin" is like talking about Santa Claus....

Santa does not know who's been naughty or nice and neither does "god". That does not mean that sin and Santa are the same or comparable.

Good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation. And if you are wicked, based on the fact that you have sinned, then we are all wicked. You are in good company. But here is the thing,
Sin separates us from our Father. Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness in it's place. It is a gift.
There is no angry God just waiting to send you to hell for breaking a rule. Instead there is a loving Father who showers us with favor and love we don't deserve. He will forgive anything you've done if you ask. He has the ability to do that because while the punishment for sin is death, the sentence was carried out on Jesus, in our place. Sin is a blood issue. You can't work it away. It requires a pure blood transfusion.
What happens when you accept the gift is that God puts your sins far behind him and remembers them no more. You look like His Son to Him. And He welcomes you home when it's time, for His Son's sake. Because it was His Son that died to get us there.

Ya know - you're one of the nastiest people on this board. I've read the really vicious, evil stuff you write. You're an ugly person and no way do you have anything to tell me or anyone else about good, evil, sin. Go work on the fucking log in your own eye and the glass house you live in.

BTW, this is the very thing I SO dislike about catholics and christians - they believe they can be the worst human beings on the planet but because they acceptedgodastheirpersonalsavior, there's a soft cushy place on a cloud waiting for them.

My idea of hell would be spending eternity in the same place as the likes of you.

Point out the nastiness in my post.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Sin is nothing more than a human construct, but I think most people are born with an innate sense of right and wrong.

 

[yiostheoy]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

To answer your question, the Christian authoritative pronouncement on point for not being baptized comes from Mark 16:16. Mark was St. Peter's son in law. So he is essentially quoting St. Peter. And St. Peter was the head of the original Christian church.

Mark says "down-judged". The word in Greek is parakolouth-esei.

Not sure exactly what that means but modern American Protestants interpret that as "burn for all eternity".

You should stop hanging around wacko Protestants.

In the Tenakh (Old Testament) "sin" in Hebrew means "missing the mark".

In the Greek New Testament "sin" means failure.

Essentially you did not live up to your full potential, according to Moses and Jesus.

If you don't care about Moses or Jesus then it does not matter.

If they are both myths it won't affect you.

If they are right then you will be down-judged.

St. Paul talks about 3 heavens and 1 fiery hell.

I am guessing that you won't reach the 3rd Heaven as Paul refers to it.

 

[yiostheoy]

... I think most people are born with an innate sense of right and wrong.

Psychopaths and sociopaths are not born with an inner anything.

Psychopaths derive pleasure from hurting others.

Sociopaths have no feelings at all and are normally very selfish and predatory for their own gain.

 

[yiostheoy]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Everyone sins.
But if you do not believe in God, sin is moot and it should not bother you what people say because, as an atheist, talking about "sin" is like talking about Santa Claus....

The Catholic and Protestant and Eastern Orthodox guilt trips are that "everyone sins".

Then you need to give their churches something for absolution.

It is capitalism in the name of Religion.

 

[yiostheoy]

Good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation. And if you are wicked, based on the fact that you have sinned, then we are all wicked. You are in good company. But here is the thing,
Sin separates us from our Father. Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness in it's place. It is a gift.
There is no angry God just waiting to send you to hell for breaking a rule. Instead there is a loving Father who showers us with favor and love we don't deserve. He will forgive anything you've done if you ask. He has the ability to do that because while the punishment for sin is death, the sentence was carried out on Jesus, in our place. Sin is a blood issue. You can't work it away. It requires a pure blood transfusion.
What happens when you accept the gift is that God puts your sins far behind him and remembers them no more. You look like His Son to Him. And He welcomes you home when it's time, for His Son's sake. Because it was His Son that died to get us there.

Many Protestants believe that "good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation ...".

Herein they completely ignore St. James who told us "faith without works is dead."

 

[yiostheoy]

So - "sin" is a religious construct.

Sin is a Hebrew word meaning "missing the mark" and a Greek word meaning "failure".

 

[Meriweather]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

It's a well-kept secret, hiding in plain sight: Jesus came to take away the sins of the world. Also in scripture: Non-believers will be judged by their own hearts. God, whether you believe or not, has imprinted right and wrong on the human heart. You, obviously, are following your heart.

We are also taught that God is love, and that He loves and cares for human souls. That includes you. You do not believe in God, and this is a far different thing from believing in God and rejecting Him all the same.

In many ways, non-belief in God seems to be a choice. In making this choice not to believe there is loss, but it occurs in the here and now. Your loss is very personal and it consists of not being able to know and love God in this life.

There is a parable you may like. A father had two sons. He asked both to go out and work in his vineyard. The first (let's call them Christians) said, "Yes, on my way," but never went. The second (let's call them Atheists) said, "No, I will not!" Later, he decided working in the vineyard was the right thing to do, and went out and worked.

If you are doing what your heart calls you to do, then my belief is that you are close to God, whether you realize it or not. You love His ways, even though you do not know Him. You are far from the person who knows God and His will--and deliberately rejects Him. Just want you to know it is possible to be even closer to God in this life than you are--and that there are many blessings there (if you like that sort of thing).

 

[yiostheoy]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

It's a well-kept secret, hiding in plain sight: Jesus came to take away the sins of the world. Also in scripture: Non-believers will be judged by their own hearts. God, whether you believe or not, has imprinted right and wrong on the human heart. You, obviously, are following your heart.

We are also taught that God is love, and that He loves and cares for human souls. That includes you. You do not believe in God, and this is a far different thing from believing in God and rejecting Him all the same.

In many ways, non-belief in God seems to be a choice. In making this choice not to believe there is loss, but it occurs in the here and now. Your loss is very personal and it consists of not being able to know and love God in this life.

There is a parable you may like. A father had two sons. He asked both to go out and work in his vineyard. The first (let's call them Christians) said, "Yes, on my way," but never went. The second (let's call them Atheists) said, "No, I will not!" Later, he decided working in the vineyard was the right thing to do, and went out and worked.

If you are doing what your heart calls you to do, then my belief is that you are close to God, whether you realize it or not. You love His ways, even though you do not know Him. You are far from the person who knows God and His will--and deliberately rejects Him. Just want you to know it is possible to be even closer to God in this life than you are--and that there are many blessings there (if you like that sort of thing).

Maybe so ... pure speculation however ... one thing is sure though that according to St. Paul you won't inherit the 3rd Heaven.

 

[Meriweather]

Maybe so ... pure speculation however ... one thing is sure though that according to St. Paul you won't inherit the 3rd Heaven.

Partial speculation, perhaps, but not pure speculation. It is a different assessment of scripture and its message than the speculation/assessment--by some--that non-believers with good hearts are doomed.

Once people experience the love of God, they don't come away from that experience thinking, "It is only me that God loves this much." Thinking becomes, "Since God loves me that much, it is a taste of just how much God loves everyone. God doesn't limit us, we place limits ourselves--not just in our spiritual life, but we see this in our physical lives as well.

 

[Bonzi]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Everyone sins.
But if you do not believe in God, sin is moot and it should not bother you what people say because, as an atheist, talking about "sin" is like talking about Santa Claus....

Santa does not know who's been naughty or nice and neither does "god". That does not mean that sin and Santa are the same or comparable.

Good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation. And if you are wicked, based on the fact that you have sinned, then we are all wicked. You are in good company. But here is the thing,
Sin separates us from our Father. Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness in it's place. It is a gift.
There is no angry God just waiting to send you to hell for breaking a rule. Instead there is a loving Father who showers us with favor and love we don't deserve. He will forgive anything you've done if you ask. He has the ability to do that because while the punishment for sin is death, the sentence was carried out on Jesus, in our place. Sin is a blood issue. You can't work it away. It requires a pure blood transfusion.
What happens when you accept the gift is that God puts your sins far behind him and remembers them no more. You look like His Son to Him. And He welcomes you home when it's time, for His Son's sake. Because it was His Son that died to get us there.

Ya know - you're one of the nastiest people on this board. I've read the really vicious, evil stuff you write. You're an ugly person and no way do you have anything to tell me or anyone else about good, evil, sin. Go work on the fucking log in your own eye and the glass house you live in.

BTW, this is the very thing I SO dislike about catholics and christians - they believe they can be the worst human beings on the planet but because they acceptedgodastheirpersonalsavior, there's a soft cushy place on a cloud waiting for them.

My idea of hell would be spending eternity in the same place as the likes of you.

If you are an atheist, sin is a fairy tale to you. Why would you even give it a second thought or debate? Silly....

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Don't want to hijack other threads so -

I'm atheist and don't believe in "sin". I do know a few people who steal, lie but I don't and with one notable exception, I don't count criminals among my friends.

There was a fundie here who was always preaching at me and others and repeatedly told me that even though I live a life of doing good deeds, harming no one, working to leave the planet a better place for having been here, I am "wicked" and would "burn for all eternity".

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

Everyone sins.
But if you do not believe in God, sin is moot and it should not bother you what people say because, as an atheist, talking about "sin" is like talking about Santa Claus....

Santa does not know who's been naughty or nice and neither does "god". That does not mean that sin and Santa are the same or comparable.

Good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation. And if you are wicked, based on the fact that you have sinned, then we are all wicked. You are in good company. But here is the thing,
Sin separates us from our Father. Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness in it's place. It is a gift.
There is no angry God just waiting to send you to hell for breaking a rule. Instead there is a loving Father who showers us with favor and love we don't deserve. He will forgive anything you've done if you ask. He has the ability to do that because while the punishment for sin is death, the sentence was carried out on Jesus, in our place. Sin is a blood issue. You can't work it away. It requires a pure blood transfusion.
What happens when you accept the gift is that God puts your sins far behind him and remembers them no more. You look like His Son to Him. And He welcomes you home when it's time, for His Son's sake. Because it was His Son that died to get us there.

Ya know - you're one of the nastiest people on this board. I've read the really vicious, evil stuff you write. You're an ugly person and no way do you have anything to tell me or anyone else about good, evil, sin. Go work on the fucking log in your own eye and the glass house you live in.

BTW, this is the very thing I SO dislike about catholics and christians - they believe they can be the worst human beings on the planet but because they acceptedgodastheirpersonalsavior, there's a soft cushy place on a cloud waiting for them.

My idea of hell would be spending eternity in the same place as the likes of you.

If you are an atheist, sin is a fairy tale to you. Why would you even give it a second thought or debate? Silly....

Bonzi

Your response is always the same - insults and put downs from your throne on high because you're so much better than those who ask questions.

Meanwhile, I notice you did not reply to the OP. You never do.

To others who at least tried to address my questions, thanks.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If one does not believe in SIN then its not possible for that person to SIN. Possible to do wrong but that's all it is anyway. You can call it "sin" if you like

If someone doesn't believe in getting burned, and they put their hand on the burner of a stove, do they burn?
Of course you can sin without knowing it. God calls it sin. And it separates us from Him. It is why He died to remove it from us.
Ask and receive.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Many Protestants believe that "good deeds have nothing to do with your salvation ...".

Herein they completely ignore St. James who told us "faith without works is dead

James referred to faith without works as being dead, from man's perspective, Not God's. Faith without works is not profitable. And we are called to good works, for Christ's sake. To spread the good news. <that work, not > for our own salvation. There are 2 works involved here. The work Christ did for us and the work we do for Christ. James refers to one. Isaiah refers to the other.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. - James 2:18

A man points to himself. His relies on his works.
What James said was that our righteous acts do not produce salvation but are, in fact, a result of our salvation.

What God told Isaiah about our working our way to Heaven:

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags

The filthy rag is a used menstrual pad. A women bearing fruit does not bleed. Us working to achieve salvation is fruitless. It takes our eyes off of Christ and keeps them squarely on our own self righteousness.
We have a co-mission with Christ to spread the good news. That is the work we have been called to do. That is the work James is referring to and aimed it at the very people trying to work their way to Heaven. James was a Jew writing to Jews under the Law. Read James 1:22 and 2: 14-26.

There isn't one thing you can add to Christ's work on the cross. To think so is arrogant. When Jesus said, "It is finished." He was referring to our salvation. When you accept what Christ did, and ask Him into your heart, your name is written in the Book of Life, at that time. If you never do another good deed, you're last breath here on earth would still be your first breath in Heaven. But boy will you be sorrowful at the Bema Judgment where all the good things you did while here are examined to see if you did them for Christ's sake, or your own. Your treasures and crowns are handed out on the basis of your good works for Christ.
If you accept Christ, you will never be judged on your sins in Heaven because you have none. Christ took them. God deposed of them. You are there.

Hebrews 8:12 KJV: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more

.

 

[Bonzi]

"Christians" say things like "I sin all the time", "I'm a sinner and pray to be forgiven for my sins" but what in the world are these sins that christians pray about? And instead of all this praying, why not just clean up your behavior?

You don't need to pray for forgiveness of sins. Once you are "saved" all sins, past, present and future are forgiven.
Of course, the Catholics don't believe this.

 

[Meriweather]

You don't need to pray for forgiveness of sins. Once you are "saved" all sins, past, present and future are forgiven.
Of course, the Catholics don't believe this.

Some Protestants view "saved" only as their ticket into a heavenly afterlife. In contrast, Catholics view salvation as a way of life we put into practice in this life that extends into the afterlife. Catholics believe forgiveness is granted for repentance (turning away from sin/disobedience to God) of sin to obedience to God. Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. It seems Protestants don't see sin/disobedience to God as anything that prevents them entering heaven.

No wonder atheists are so angry at these Protestant Christians who claim heaven for themselves while denying it to others.