Since the thread was closed (???), a final comment.

[turzovka]

It said the thread “If God did not exist” is closed to more posts??? Not sure what that means, but Derideo_Te made this comment to me yesterday and I wanted to respond.

You are the first and only person I have ever encountered to claim to not only have evidence for the existence of your God but a surfeit of evidence to boot. So please don't be shy about sharing it with the rest of us. I am always willing to consider new evidence with an open mind.


Sorry to disappoint you, but I am in no position to put forth what I said I stand by. I refuse to do an insufficient job of it. My life is too demanding at the moment.

It bothers me not that people think I am full of it. I am fine with those like Orogenicman and Daws claiming the victor. These boards have proved less than fruitful of the time expended.

I hope I can provide all these reasons, events, miracles, etc. that I say become the preponderance of evidence which demands a verdict and clearly proves the deity of Jesus Christ and none other. But it takes time. But even then, if done, we can be sure the nay-sayers will remain steadfastly against it all.

For me it seems it is not a matter of facts, evidence and reason ---- it is a matter of desire. Matthew 13 somewhat explains to me why so many do not come to God (i.e. a sluggish heart), but it also speaks of a mystery as to why God seems to allow it to be for some and not for others. The mystery is something I do accept as faith since God does not reveal to us why it must be that way.

And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
You will keep on hearing, but will not understand.
You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive.
For the heart of this people has become sluggish.
Otherwise they would see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart and return.”

 

[hobelim]

I hope I can provide all these reasons, events, miracles, etc. that I say become the preponderance of evidence which demands a verdict and clearly proves the deity of Jesus Christ and none other. But it takes time. But even then, if done, we can be sure the nay-sayers will remain steadfastly against it all.

For me it seems it is not a matter of facts, evidence and reason ---- it is a matter of desire.

So, if you desire it to be true it becomes true for you even in the absence of facts, evidence and reason?

What if the miracles of Jesus are also like parables that conceal deeper hidden meaning? What if they are not and never were literal demonstrations of divine supernatural power over reality? Doesn't that alter the equation enough to make an honest person reevaluate their position and consider the unthinkable, that you may be mistaken and have made great errors in your own speculations in the absence of reason and consequently have made false conclusions about the divinity of Jesus as hard as that may be for you to believe?

Would you like to see how turning water into wine, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, walking on water, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers, feeding the multitude, etc., can all be interpreted in a way that conforms to and is confirmed by reality?

If so, you have to make an adjustment to your policy.

It requires the use of reason...

 

[turzovka]

So, if you desire it to be true it becomes true for you even in the absence of facts, evidence and reason?

I am not sure what you are saying here?

What if the miracles of Jesus are also like parables that conceal deeper hidden meaning?

I am sure they did conceal deeper meanings. Surely they are when presented in Scripture.

What if they are not and never were literal demonstrations of divine supernatural power over reality? Doesn't that alter the equation enough to make an honest person reevaluate their position and consider the unthinkable, that you may be mistaken and have made great errors in your own speculations in the absence of reason and consequently have made false conclusions about the divinity of Jesus as hard as that may be for you to believe?

Well, yes, I suppose it would. To simplify; if Jesus truly did not suffer and die on the cross and rise from the dead, then the whole Christian faith would be a ruse. But there is nothing I am aware of to make me believe that is the case or even a possibility at this point. I am not sure what you or others will concede (if anything), but if one can accept the accounts of all of the early Christian martyrs who peaceably went to their deaths and suffered great tortures for their faith then that does lend some credence to the authenticity of Christ’s existence and resurrection. Hard to imagine all those thousands of skulls in the catacombs were sacrificed on a hunch.


Would you like to see how turning water into wine, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, walking on water, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers, feeding the multitude, etc., can all be interpreted in a way that conforms to and is confirmed by reality?

I do not follow what you are saying or implying here?

This may not be at all related to where you are going, but Jesus did say “if you will not put faith in me then put faith in the works that I do.” IOW, people of Jesus’ day were just as skeptical as so many in this present day. They demand signs and nothing less. Too bad because there are many other reasons to believe in this day about the authenticity of the divinity of Christ then just another miracle that one must be an eye witness to.


If so, you have to make an adjustment to your policy. It requires the use of reason...

I dare say any position, claim or belief requires the use of reason. Pope Benedict XVI said that faith without reason is a false faith and dangerous one. Are you suggesting the idea of a God is less reasonable than atheism?

 

[Newby]

I reopened the thread to *civil* discussion...

 

[daws101]

I reopened the thread to *civil* discussion...

you may have opened the thread back up.
but the condescension and faux religious superiority is on full display..

 

[Trajan]

It said the thread “If God did not exist” is closed to more posts??? Not sure what that means, but Derideo_Te made this comment to me yesterday and I wanted to respond.

if the thread is closed that means, ITS CLOSED, restarting it here is a no go.

thread- closed.