Single payer in Cali?

[daveman]

its mandated through taxes, just like every other tax. i.e. state income tax, medicaid. you can then make up for an shortfalls when people file their state taxes. will some people fall through the crack... probably. but it is the only sure fire way to insure people actually pay.

"Raise taxes". Good job. Drive MORE businesses and individuals out of the state.

Quite the opposite. Businesses will not have to provide health care to their employees. They will save considerable money in a state with a single payer health plan.

You do know there are three other states who have tried single-payer, right?

And that they all failed, right?

So what makes you think it'll work in CA?

 

[Seawytch]

"Raise taxes". Good job. Drive MORE businesses and individuals out of the state.

Quite the opposite. Businesses will not have to provide health care to their employees. They will save considerable money in a state with a single payer health plan.

You do know there are three other states who have tried single-payer, right?

And that they all failed, right?

So what makes you think it'll work in CA?

Got any links to all these "failed" single payer state systems?

What will make it work in CA is our population. It works great in Japan.

 

[daveman]

Quite the opposite. Businesses will not have to provide health care to their employees. They will save considerable money in a state with a single payer health plan.

You do know there are three other states who have tried single-payer, right?

And that they all failed, right?

So what makes you think it'll work in CA?

Got any links to all these "failed" single payer state systems?

MassCare’s Dismal Failure Is A Preview Of Whats To Come With ObamaCare | Flopping Aces

TennCare—A Failure Of Politics, Not Policy: A Conversation With Gordon Bonnyman

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3759180-post59.html

What will make it work in CA is our population. It works great in Japan.

Your population is greater than Massachusetts', Tennessee's, and Maine's. It will fail even quicker than they did.

 

[Greenbeard]

(I know the answer, by the way, and so does Obama. Here is a link in which he says directly that the goal is single payer, and that this is all nonsense as we transition toward that goal. He wants/needs the private industry out of the way to move toward single-payer.)

A system that doesn't rely on employer-sponsored coverage is not single-payer, it's a system in which individuals buy their own insurance. On those occasions when conservatives bother to offer health reform proposals, they tend to favor eliminating the tax preference for employer-sponsored coverage to facilitate the transition away from employer-sponsored coverage because that's a very inefficient system. I'm guessing they recognize that a multi-payer system without employer-sponsored coverage is not only possible, it's preferable to what we have now.

The public option bits sprinkled through the clip are unrelated to this point and, ultimately, irrelevant, given that the public option doesn't exist. That said, Frank and Schakowsky's comments are more about political posturing and drawing the ideological battle lines (and wishful thinking) than they are the actual function a hypothetical public option would serve.

 

[Greenbeard]

Got any links to all these "failed" single payer state systems?

MassCare’s Dismal Failure Is A Preview Of Whats To Come With ObamaCare | Flopping Aces

TennCare—A Failure Of Politics, Not Policy: A Conversation With Gordon Bonnyman

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3759180-post59.html

What will make it work in CA is our population. It works great in Japan.

Your population is greater than Massachusetts', Tennessee's, and Maine's. It will fail even quicker than they did.

These examples make no sense. Massachusetts has a Connector full of private plans. TennCare is a Medicaid program administered by multiple private companies (i.e. beneficiaries have the choice of multiple managed care plans offered by private insurance companies). And Maine certainly doesn't have a single-payer system; indeed, even characterizing DirigoChoice as a "public option" is somewhat puzzling, as a quick visit to DirigoHealth's website would reveal ("DirigoChoice is private health insurance coverage offered through Harvard Pilgrim Health Care. Small Businesses (fewer than 50 employees), Sole Proprietors, and Individuals are all eligible to enroll.")

 

[Zona]

LMAO!! Great idea the State is already bankrupt.... I know let's spend even more

Because it didnt work in vermont? Is that your logic here?

 

[daveman]

Got any links to all these "failed" single payer state systems?

MassCare’s Dismal Failure Is A Preview Of Whats To Come With ObamaCare | Flopping Aces

TennCare—A Failure Of Politics, Not Policy: A Conversation With Gordon Bonnyman

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3759180-post59.html

What will make it work in CA is our population. It works great in Japan.

Your population is greater than Massachusetts', Tennessee's, and Maine's. It will fail even quicker than they did.

These examples make no sense. Massachusetts has a Connector full of private plans. TennCare is a Medicaid program administered by multiple private companies (i.e. beneficiaries have the choice of multiple managed care plans offered by private insurance companies). And Maine certainly doesn't have a single-payer system; indeed, even characterizing DirigoChoice as a "public option" is somewhat puzzling, as a quick visit to DirigoHealth's website would reveal ("DirigoChoice is private health insurance coverage offered through Harvard Pilgrim Health Care. Small Businesses (fewer than 50 employees), Sole Proprietors, and Individuals are all eligible to enroll.")

Then perhaps you'd accept the rousing success of the VA medical system.

 

[Zona]

MassCare’s Dismal Failure Is A Preview Of Whats To Come With ObamaCare | Flopping Aces

TennCare—A Failure Of Politics, Not Policy: A Conversation With Gordon Bonnyman

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3759180-post59.html

Your population is greater than Massachusetts', Tennessee's, and Maine's. It will fail even quicker than they did.

These examples make no sense. Massachusetts has a Connector full of private plans. TennCare is a Medicaid program administered by multiple private companies (i.e. beneficiaries have the choice of multiple managed care plans offered by private insurance companies). And Maine certainly doesn't have a single-payer system; indeed, even characterizing DirigoChoice as a "public option" is somewhat puzzling, as a quick visit to DirigoHealth's website would reveal ("DirigoChoice is private health insurance coverage offered through Harvard Pilgrim Health Care. Small Businesses (fewer than 50 employees), Sole Proprietors, and Individuals are all eligible to enroll.")

Then perhaps you'd accept the rousing success of the VA medical system.

The VA medical system is freaking great dude. Look it up now.

Oh and tricare is about as good as it gets. Using the VA medical system as a bad thing used to be the go to for guys like you. Look up how its doing now. I dare you.

(I personally thank god for Balboa in san diego...)

 

[daveman]

These examples make no sense. Massachusetts has a Connector full of private plans. TennCare is a Medicaid program administered by multiple private companies (i.e. beneficiaries have the choice of multiple managed care plans offered by private insurance companies). And Maine certainly doesn't have a single-payer system; indeed, even characterizing DirigoChoice as a "public option" is somewhat puzzling, as a quick visit to DirigoHealth's website would reveal ("DirigoChoice is private health insurance coverage offered through Harvard Pilgrim Health Care. Small Businesses (fewer than 50 employees), Sole Proprietors, and Individuals are all eligible to enroll.")

Then perhaps you'd accept the rousing success of the VA medical system.

The VA medical system is freaking great dude. Look it up now.

Oh and tricare is about as good as it gets. Using the VA medical system as a bad thing used to be the go to for guys like you. Look up how its doing now. I dare you.

(I personally thank god for Balboa in san diego...)

I haven't been in the system yet -- I'm still waiting for my disability determination. I'll reserve judgement.

 

[Gadawg73]

How many of you here run their own businesses, pay their own health insurance and deal with the insurance companies negotiating the rates, coverages and terms?
How many of you pay over 30K a year in health coverage and employ others?
How many here have group coverage as a benefit?
Believe me, the current health care scenario in America we now operate under through purchasing health insurance through insurance companies is broken, unsustainable and operates under NO free market principles. And it has been this way for 30 years, as long as I have been in business.

 

[Skynet]

You do know there are three other states who have tried single-payer, right?

And that they all failed, right?

So what makes you think it'll work in CA?

Got any links to all these "failed" single payer state systems?

MassCare’s Dismal Failure Is A Preview Of Whats To Come With ObamaCare | Flopping Aces

TennCare—A Failure Of Politics, Not Policy: A Conversation With Gordon Bonnyman

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3759180-post59.html

What will make it work in CA is our population. It works great in Japan.

Your population is greater than Massachusetts', Tennessee's, and Maine's. It will fail even quicker than they did.

none of those systems is actually "single payer"

 

[daveman]

Got any links to all these "failed" single payer state systems?

MassCare’s Dismal Failure Is A Preview Of Whats To Come With ObamaCare | Flopping Aces

TennCare—A Failure Of Politics, Not Policy: A Conversation With Gordon Bonnyman

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3759180-post59.html

What will make it work in CA is our population. It works great in Japan.

Your population is greater than Massachusetts', Tennessee's, and Maine's. It will fail even quicker than they did.

none of those systems is actually "single payer"

So that means CA's program will work?

One of those things you have to take on faith, I suppose. Meanwhile, perhaps you can explain how CA, with their 25 billion dollar debt, is going to pay for it. No one else has been able to.

 

[Skynet]

MassCare’s Dismal Failure Is A Preview Of Whats To Come With ObamaCare | Flopping Aces

TennCare—A Failure Of Politics, Not Policy: A Conversation With Gordon Bonnyman

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3759180-post59.html

Your population is greater than Massachusetts', Tennessee's, and Maine's. It will fail even quicker than they did.

none of those systems is actually "single payer"

So that means CA's program will work?

One of those things you have to take on faith, I suppose. Meanwhile, perhaps you can explain how CA, with their 25 billion dollar debt, is going to pay for it. No one else has been able to.

as i posted before, we currently spend $200 billion an health care as a state already covering those who dont pay into the system. its called a health care tax. i already pay $150+ a month for health care, i have not problem continuing to pay that. those who arent paying will start though either a monthly tax deduction or at the end of the year when they file taxes.

 

[Truthmatters]

funny that they pretend what we have now works.

 

[daveman]

none of those systems is actually "single payer"

So that means CA's program will work?

One of those things you have to take on faith, I suppose. Meanwhile, perhaps you can explain how CA, with their 25 billion dollar debt, is going to pay for it. No one else has been able to.

as i posted before, we currently spend $200 billion an health care as a state already covering those who dont pay into the system. its called a health care tax. i already pay $150+ a month for health care, i have not problem continuing to pay that. those who arent paying will start though either a monthly tax deduction or at the end of the year when they file taxes.

"Paying through a tax deduction". If they can't afford their premium, simply take it out of their paychecks. Brilliant. So then they have less money for rent/mortgage, utilities, and oh, yeah, food.

The poor will not be charged. Never happen. Others will pay for them.

 

[daveman]

funny that they pretend what we have now works.

Not as funny as you pretending that what has never worked somehow magically will.

 

[Skynet]

So that means CA's program will work?

One of those things you have to take on faith, I suppose. Meanwhile, perhaps you can explain how CA, with their 25 billion dollar debt, is going to pay for it. No one else has been able to.

as i posted before, we currently spend $200 billion an health care as a state already covering those who dont pay into the system. its called a health care tax. i already pay $150+ a month for health care, i have not problem continuing to pay that. those who arent paying will start though either a monthly tax deduction or at the end of the year when they file taxes.

"Paying through a tax deduction". If they can't afford their premium, simply take it out of their paychecks. Brilliant. So then they have less money for rent/mortgage, utilities, and oh, yeah, food.

The poor will not be charged. Never happen. Others will pay for them.

and how exactly do you avoid paying taxes? well i guess you can if youre a corporation that makes billions every year.

 

[daveman]

as i posted before, we currently spend $200 billion an health care as a state already covering those who dont pay into the system. its called a health care tax. i already pay $150+ a month for health care, i have not problem continuing to pay that. those who arent paying will start though either a monthly tax deduction or at the end of the year when they file taxes.

"Paying through a tax deduction". If they can't afford their premium, simply take it out of their paychecks. Brilliant. So then they have less money for rent/mortgage, utilities, and oh, yeah, food.

The poor will not be charged. Never happen. Others will pay for them.

and how exactly do you avoid paying taxes? well i guess you can if youre a corporation that makes billions every year.

Follow along with me. I'll type slowly.

Bob has a job. It doesn't pay much. By the time he's paid rent, utilities, gas, car insurance, and food, he doesn't have any money left. He doesn't have health insurance.

Suddenly, CalCare comes along and says Bob has to pay a premium. Bob says, "With what?" CalCare says, "Your paycheck", and starts deducting $150 every month.

What is Bob going to have to do without? Rent, utilities, gas, car insurance, or food?


Do you think CA is going to do that? No. It will be means tested. People making below a certain income will not be charged. Other people will pay his premium for him.

Just like Obamacare is set up to do.

 

[Provocateur]

(I know the answer, by the way, and so does Obama. Here is a link in which he says directly that the goal is single payer, and that this is all nonsense as we transition toward that goal. He wants/needs the private industry out of the way to move toward single-payer.)

A system that doesn't rely on employer-sponsored coverage is not single-payer, it's a system in which individuals buy their own insurance. On those occasions when conservatives bother to offer health reform proposals, they tend to favor eliminating the tax preference for employer-sponsored coverage to facilitate the transition away from employer-sponsored coverage because that's a very inefficient system. I'm guessing they recognize that a multi-payer system without employer-sponsored coverage is not only possible, it's preferable to what we have now.

The public option bits sprinkled through the clip are unrelated to this point and, ultimately, irrelevant, given that the public option doesn't exist. That said, Frank and Schakowsky's comments are more about political posturing and drawing the ideological battle lines (and wishful thinking) than they are the actual function a hypothetical public option would serve.

The point of that clip was to demonstrate what the ultimate goal is in the progressive agenda in regards to health care/insurance. It doesn't have to do with employer-provided benefits, but rather, that private insurance companies are an impediment to ultimately running the whole health insurance show. You can blindly call that posturing, but that is the goal. I can't believe that so many people dismiss what these people are telling you in regards to the goals that they seek.

And I didn't comment on the Aetna "boom" post, because that person posted a link that shows that insurance agencies are forced to reduce premiums on a very small group of individuals because of Obamacare. I have read elsewhere, although not going to hunt it down right now, that 10-12% will benefit. That means that 88%-90% will not benefit. Or stated another way, will be harmed.


But this is the progressive agenda. Wealth redistribution, the take over of much of the private industries for the revenue they generate.



And for whatever reason, liberals think that the government runs things efficiently...with all of the layers of bureaucratic nonsense that is always prevalent in every program.

 

[Provocateur]

its mandated through taxes, just like every other tax. i.e. state income tax, medicaid. you can then make up for an shortfalls when people file their state taxes. will some people fall through the crack... probably. but it is the only sure fire way to insure people actually pay.

"Raise taxes". Good job. Drive MORE businesses and individuals out of the state.

Quite the opposite. Businesses will not have to provide health care to their employees. They will save considerable money in a state with a single payer health plan.

Many will not, and take the penalty if it is cheaper. Do you think that is a good thing?

Also, google small businesses and the impact of Obamacare.


I don't get how liberals think this is all funny or somehow something to cheer about.