Snowden vs. Manning.

[mudwhistle]

Anyone who wants to know how the London Olympic committee found out about that some of their athletes were making racists remarks one need go no further. This spying is how. It's all on the internet.

What is Data Retention?
Data retention is, essentially, when your ISP logs and stores the personal data attached to your IP address (unlike PRISM, which focuses on cloud-based internet services). The data an ISP typically stores includes web logs, which let them know exactly what websites you have visited and when you visited them. An ISP will also store email logs (though not the contents), if you're using their email services -- or let law enforcement know about which third-party email services you use. All of this data will be linked to your IP address, which in turn is linked to your physical address and can be used to identify you.
As I mentioned, mandatory data retention laws are already in place in certain parts of the world, but Europe has pioneered the practice. The 2006 European Data Retention Directive has been enacted in the vast majority of EU nations, but not without huge controversy. In fact, Germany -- the EU's biggest economy -- is currently facing heavy fines because its own High Court court ruled the directive unconstitutional and a violation of citizens' privacy rights.
The EU Catastrophe
he fears of German citizens are not theoretical either. The UK government has been one of the EU's most enthusiastic supporters of data retention, as well as online surveillance in general, and its citizens have suffered because of it. In 2000 the UK enacted the Regulatory Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA), which allowed public bodies to carry out surveillance of citizens without a warrant. RIPA, combined with the Data Retention Directive, has had grave repercussions for the online privacy of UK citizens. Over 400 UK agencies and police forces are now able to access data from ISPs with no judicial oversight whatsoever. These agencies include everything from pension regulators, to agricultural agencies. In April 2008, a family from the UK county of Dorset were put under surveillance by their local council. The couple were not terrorism suspects, nor engaging in criminal activities. They were simply under suspicion for sending their children to a school outside the council's catchment area.
The above case is not isolated. In 2009 alone there were over 1,700 requests made by UK agencies for ISP data on UK citizens which required a warrant. In the same year there were over 500,000 requests for data from agencies that did not require a warrant. The UK government now refuses to make public the number of information requests made by authorities and agencies, claiming it would undermine national security.




Read more: Articles: The Data Retention Disaster Heading to the US
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

So if your government decides that certain speech is illegal you will get a knock at the door if you decide to post something they find not politically correct.

 

[dblack]

While this may seem off topic (even wacky) the cultural implications of these actions are fascinating. In neither case was there a pressing need to reveal this information. They were not in the nature of the Pentagon Papers. Both present the modern American child, self centered and narcissistic, who know better than everyone else and feels no real moral concern. The libertarian hint above is telling. Am I off base? Listening to kids today, I don't know. There is no sense in serving more than the self?

As far as the conservative response that is simply political theater. Had this been addressed at President Romney the result would have been similar to wikileaks.

Absolutely.

Hence this thread.

Probably for a lot of them. What about for you? Would you be true to the "principles" you're advocating now? Would you be shilling for the Romney administration in that case?

 

[mudwhistle]

[

Yeah, right.

Obama doesn't get any blame and Bush gets all of the blame and will be blamed forever.

That's derangement.

So STFU.

Guy, I voted for Bush twice. His father, four times if you count the times he was Ray-Gun's Running Mate.

What I got out of it were three recessions. The value of my property diminished. A busted 401K.

Sorry, if the worst thing I have to worry about is the President getting a blow job or the Teabaggers can't get their tax dodge, then I figure I'm doing pretty good.

Here's something pretty good someone published yesterday.

Meanwhile, U.S. combat forces are out of Iraq, and they’ll be out of Afghanistan next year. U.S. carbon emissions are at their lowest level in two decades, and so are U.S. oil imports. By historical standards, taxes are very low and spending is very modest. General Motors and Chrysler, wards of the state four years ago, are posting their best sales numbers in years. Gays are serving openly in the military, solar installations have increased over 1,000% in four years, a cool robot is taking cool pictures of Mars, and Tesla just paid back its government loan with interest. Things are getting better, and better is better than worse.



But the headlines are all about supposed scandals—stupid IRS agents in Cincinnati, overzealous leak investigations at the Justice Department, a dopey dispute over Benghazi talking points. These are the kind of things that politicians can obsess about when there’s no crisis on the horizon; the last time the national outlook was this bright, Republicans impeached the president for sexing up an intern. It’s unfortunate, but it’s not as if the latest wannabe-scandals are distracting official Washington from any important work it might be doing.

Read more: Apocalypse Not Now: Just About Everything Is Getting Better | TIME.com

There are so many flaws in your logic there are too many to mention.

I seriously doubt you voted for Bush btw. I think you're as dishonest as Obama. You spout his talking-points like a member of his campaign.

So spare me.

 

[JoeB131]

[quo

There are so many flaws in your logic there are too many to mention.

Translation- you can't refute a thing I said.

[
I seriously doubt you voted for Bush btw. I think you're as dishonest as Obama. You spout his talking-points like a member of his campaign.

So spare me.

yes, it's completely impossible to believe anyone could change his mind about the Pro-Corporate Party after being totally fucked over by a corporation.

WHich is pretty much what happened to me. I got sick, required medical care, my company fucked me.

The comment by my ex-boss that changed everything, "Well, it's a good thing this isn't a union shop."

If you aren't part of the 1%, you have no real business voting for the GOP. Sorry, you just don't.

But you're a guy who whines about government while sucking deeply from the government teat, I find it hilarious when you whine that sequester means you get 11 days without pay.

Incidently, I was perfectly willing to give the GOP a chance in 2012 as long as they didn't nominate a Mormon.

Oh. Wait. They totally did that.

 

[Votto]

If Snowden divulged secret information he deserves to go to jail

What about the powers that be that violated the Constitution? For them there are no checks and balances. Snowden did the only thing there was to do in that situation.

 

[mudwhistle]

[quo

There are so many flaws in your logic there are too many to mention.

Translation- you can't refute a thing I said.

[
I seriously doubt you voted for Bush btw. I think you're as dishonest as Obama. You spout his talking-points like a member of his campaign.

So spare me.

yes, it's completely impossible to believe anyone could change his mind about the Pro-Corporate Party after being totally fucked over by a corporation.

WHich is pretty much what happened to me. I got sick, required medical care, my company fucked me.

The comment by my ex-boss that changed everything, "Well, it's a good thing this isn't a union shop."

If you aren't part of the 1%, you have no real business voting for the GOP. Sorry, you just don't.

But you're a guy who whines about government while sucking deeply from the government teat, I find it hilarious when you whine that sequester means you get 11 days without pay.

Incidently, I was perfectly willing to give the GOP a chance in 2012 as long as they didn't nominate a Mormon.

Oh. Wait. They totally did that.

Nope. I can refute almost everything. I just figure it's a total waste of time because I'm dealing with an inherently dishonest person when I'm talking to you.

And I'm not whining about anything. I would enjoy the time off. I just feel that it never should have come to this and I seem to remember Obama saying during the debates that it would never ever happen in a million years.

Actually, that Mormon is a better man than Obama could ever be, so obviously you're a poor judge of character.

 

[Votto]

NSA whistleblower supported Ron Paul?s presidential run ? RT USA


As news continues to surface about classified NSA documents leaked last week, the man who blew the whistle on the secret spy program is quickly becoming the center of attention.

Follow RT's LIVE UPDATES on NSA leak fallout

With all eyes turned to 29-year-old Edward Snowden, the former CIA analyst who leaked documents about the National Security Agency’s domestic spying is already on his way to becoming the most discussed man in America. Less than 24 hours after the Guardian went public with Snowden’s identity on Sunday, the leaker’s personal life and politics have already taken center stage.

Now at the center of some discussions is Snowden’s endorsement of Ron Paul during last year’s presidential race, a revelation that is providing a rare glimpse into the ideologies of a man who will likely face decades in prison for going public.

According to donation info published by the Center for Responsive Politics’ website OpenSecrets.org, Snowden made two contributions totaling $500 to the presidential campaign of then-Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) during the last calendar year. Snowden made a $250 contribution to Rep. Paul on March 18, 2012, and another $250 donation on May 6.
<more>

Do you know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking that the government will now use its massive data base of knowledge about us and start to target Ron Paul supporters in government and abroad. After all, anyone who promotes Constitutional law in a land where they think that the NDAA is remotely Constitutional is public enemy number one.

 

[Sallow]

You know, Obama can classify anything he wants. He can say his campaign tactics are state secrets because of national security. He can claim any conversations between himself and his staff are privileged information.

This is the problem with our laws. The office of POTUS wasn't designed for a lying snake in the grass like Obama. We need to re-write all of the powers, and checks and balances over the office of President just to keep scumbags like Obama abusing their power.

Bush was involved in the same practice of classifying nearly everything.

Cheney had an infamous meeting with leaders from the oil industry in regards to domestic and foreign policy.

That was classified initially..then covered by EP.

And four the first for years, that lying and very evil Dick Cheney ran the country.

Personally? I agree that there should be more checks and balances. To keep scumbags like Cheney and the Traitor Ronald Reagan from abusing the office.

 

[Sallow]

If Snowden divulged secret information he deserves to go to jail

What about the powers that be that violated the Constitution? For them there are no checks and balances. Snowden did the only thing there was to do in that situation.

Congress passes laws. That's in the constitution.

If you break those laws you are subject to arrest. However you enjoy a plethora of rights that give you the power to challenge the arrest and the very law that you were arrested under.

 

[Ravi]

You know, Obama can classify anything he wants. He can say his campaign tactics are state secrets because of national security. He can claim any conversations between himself and his staff are privileged information.

This is the problem with our laws. The office of POTUS wasn't designed for a lying snake in the grass like Obama. We need to re-write all of the powers, and checks and balances over the office of President just to keep scumbags like Obama abusing their power.

You're absolutely right! Obama could wake up tomorrow and decided he'd rather be king than president and then make it so!

He could put Moochelle in charge of what Americans are allowed to eat and she'd make us all eat arugula and sustainably grown buckwheat and NOTHING ELSE.

He could change the motto on the dollar from "in god we trust" to "kill whitey." Of course he wouldn't kill ALL the white people, only the ones that won't call him Massa. And then the ones he didn't kill he'll make get sex changes, OMFG!!!

And then, OMG, he'll make it so only black people can own guns and be business owners.

Holy shit, you better do something about it before it happens instead of being a hyperbolic idiot on a messageboard!!!!!!!!!

 

[XPostFacto]

Snowden a hero? Bull! He had a TS Compartmentalized security clearance. He took an oath to safeguard America's secrets however ugly. He's a traitor but more of an attention whore. He runs away to another country, all the while getting the attention he thinks he deserves, attention and recognition he feels he never got enough of while in America working for the CIA. He's loving all this attention, but he's hoping deep down, he doesn't get extradited.

 

[dblack]

Snowden a hero? Bull! He had a TS Compartmentalized security clearance. He took an oath to safeguard America's secrets however ugly. He's a traitor but more of an attention whore. He runs away to another country, all the while getting the attention he thinks he deserves, attention and recognition he feels he never got enough of while in America working for the CIA. He's loving all this attention, but he's hoping deep down, he doesn't get extradited.

It's all a question of "A hero to whom?" or "A traitor to whom?".

This country was founded by people who broke the law and committed treason against what they saw as an abusive government. Were they traitors, or heroes?

 

[mudwhistle]

You know, Obama can classify anything he wants. He can say his campaign tactics are state secrets because of national security. He can claim any conversations between himself and his staff are privileged information.

This is the problem with our laws. The office of POTUS wasn't designed for a lying snake in the grass like Obama. We need to re-write all of the powers, and checks and balances over the office of President just to keep scumbags like Obama abusing their power.

You're absolutely right! Obama could wake up tomorrow and decided he'd rather be king than president and then make it so!

He could put Moochelle in charge of what Americans are allowed to eat and she'd make us all eat arugula and sustainably grown buckwheat and NOTHING ELSE.

He could change the motto on the dollar from "in god we trust" to "kill whitey." Of course he wouldn't kill ALL the white people, only the ones that won't call him Massa. And then the ones he didn't kill he'll make get sex changes, OMFG!!!

And then, OMG, he'll make it so only black people can own guns and be business owners.

Holy shit, you better do something about it before it happens instead of being a hyperbolic idiot on a messageboard!!!!!!!!!

We had our chance to do something. Problem is we're finding out the system was rigged from the start and here's the funny part. We paid for it with our tax dollars. Obama turns an anti-terrorist data-mining program into an information gathering program that only he has access to. He can tell who visits which sites and it tells him our likes and dislikes. He used Prism and another program called project Narwale to find and focus on every potential Obama vote and discourage every potential Romney vote possible. Experts say these programs gave him a 16% boost during the election. Now he's free to do whatever the hell he wants. Pretty soon talking on sites like this can lead to serious consequences for anyone who speaks out against him. It's already happening in the UK. It's just a matter of time before it becomes a crime to speak your mind online or in publc.

 

[mudwhistle]

Snowden a hero? Bull! He had a TS Compartmentalized security clearance. He took an oath to safeguard America's secrets however ugly. He's a traitor but more of an attention whore. He runs away to another country, all the while getting the attention he thinks he deserves, attention and recognition he feels he never got enough of while in America working for the CIA. He's loving all this attention, but he's hoping deep down, he doesn't get extradited.

It's all a question of "A hero to whom?" or "A traitor to whom?".

This country was founded by people who broke the law and committed treason against what they saw as an abusive government. Were they traitors, or heroes?

The founding fathers would have been hung for treason.

 

[Billo_Really]

Snowden vs. Manning

I think Snowden has the better arm, but Manning can scramble from the pocket, and can also run the ball.

Sorry, too many INT's in the red-zone.

 

[Billo_Really]

Snowden and Manning are showing everyone what a true American patriot really is.

Their faces should be on Mt. Rushmore.

 

[BlindBoo]

If Snowden divulged secret information he deserves to go to jail

How about applying that same concern to IRS employees who divulged confidential tax records and the person in the Obama Administration (Panetta) who leaked the Seal Team Six details?

If it can be proven that someone broke the law. Sure why not? They should face whatever penalty the courts decide on.

 

[dblack]

If Snowden divulged secret information he deserves to go to jail

How about applying that same concern to IRS employees who divulged confidential tax records and the person in the Obama Administration (Panetta) who leaked the Seal Team Six details?

If it can be proven that someone broke the law. Sure why not? They should face whatever penalty the courts decide on.

Right. Exactly. Ellsberg even says Snowden committed a crime, and will have to deal with the consequences, whether that's prosecution or a life on the run. His willingness to do that, to do the right thing in the face of grave personal risk, is what makes him a hero in my book.

I actually suspect that Snowden will turn himself in. He's playing for time to get the story out.

 

[BlindBoo]

One released classified information.
One released a process.
Two different things.
The founding fathers wrote this,


Mr Snowden revealed that the government was violating the fourth amendment. A basis for our liberty being violated by a government that was purposefully created to prevent such action.

Snowden released Top Secret material - whether it's a process or specifics, it makes no difference - it was Top Secret. Manning released a far lower level of classified material, though more indiscriminately. Both felt the government was committing grave wrongs that the public had a right to know.

Whether the government was violating anything or not remains to be seen.

We already knew about the NSA data mining program.

What the current administration is doing is much, much more extensive and intrusive, and there is probable cause to believe the information gathered has been used against political opponents, political advocates, journalists, Supreme Court justices, the list goes on and on.

I wonder how they found out about the details of Gen. Petreaus's affair?
How did they know that Ted Nugent had improperly tagged a kill during a hunting trip?
How did they come up with all of these stories about Mitt Romney?

The Obama Administration is spying on political opponents or anyone who just happens to piss him off at the moment. He thinks he can do anything he wants and get away with it. He doesn't believe the law applies to him.

It is hard to believe that some how that fact escaped the public discourse since when it was revealed it was originally done in secret, without a warrant.

Congress has been well aware of the program.

 

[Sallow]

Snowden released Top Secret material - whether it's a process or specifics, it makes no difference - it was Top Secret. Manning released a far lower level of classified material, though more indiscriminately. Both felt the government was committing grave wrongs that the public had a right to know.

Whether the government was violating anything or not remains to be seen.

We already knew about the NSA data mining program.

What the current administration is doing is much, much more extensive and intrusive, and there is probable cause to believe the information gathered has been used against political opponents, political advocates, journalists, Supreme Court justices, the list goes on and on.

I wonder how they found out about the details of Gen. Petreaus's affair?
How did they know that Ted Nugent had improperly tagged a kill during a hunting trip?
How did they come up with all of these stories about Mitt Romney?

The Obama Administration is spying on political opponents or anyone who just happens to piss him off at the moment. He thinks he can do anything he wants and get away with it. He doesn't believe the law applies to him.

It is hard to believe that some how that fact escaped the public discourse since when it was revealed it was originally done in secret, without a warrant.

Congress has been well aware of the program.

That's basically the conservative meme.

It's okay to have someone they approve of engage in this practice..but if they don't like the guy, it's bad.

Which is why, for the most part, their "arguments" are generally laughable at best.