So A Troublemaker Is A Better Choice Than Someone Who Fixes Companys?

[Jarhead]

Bain and Romney are perfect central casting Hollywood for the "bad guy". They took companies with good paying jobs and closed them down, "restructured" them with fewer benefits, offshored them to other countries and laid off thousands of workers. Because of that, cardboard cutout Romney isn't going to get much traction in places where the only jobs to be had are McJobs like Bain now produces. It isn't going to give people out of work or afraid to be out of work much comfort when Romney touts his "job creation" success at low wage, no benefits jobs like Staples.

Companies like Bain are exactly why there is so much populist anger out there and that is going to be put in stark display in the next year.

Just so you understand...

Bain made their money buy doing the following....

They looked at really good ideas and determ,ined why those really good ideas were not runing a profit and why those really good ideas were going to go out of business.

They then made tha appropriate adjustments to allow those really good ideas make a profit.

Now..if it meant streamlining personnel...so be it for if it were not for Bain, ALL employees would have ultimately lost their jobs.

Seems you prefer throwing good money at bad business models and costing EVERYONE their jobs....and more money borrowed that cant be paid back when the company goes under.

Cant figure out why you seem that a good idea.

To make MORE profit. The companies were already profitable or Bain would not have been able to secure loans based on the acquisition of those companies. Companies they then chopped up and sold off, making money for their investors. That is the reason they exist. Venture capitalists are not "job creators", they are money makers, period.

That isn't going to play well in towns that saw their steel mills and paper mills closed down because it's cheaper to import shit from overseas and these companies can make more MONEY.

Correct. They are not in the business of creating jobs...they are in the business of turning failed business models around.

However...the result is jobs created.

Please tell me what PROFIT industry is in the business of creating jobs.

FYI...there is none.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Obama claims he's the guy to fix the economy and he uses division and class-warfare to do it....

There’s your problem with your ‘logic’ right there: Obama has engaged in neither ‘division’ nor ‘class-warfare,’ that’s something the right dreamed up.

 

[Jarhead]

Remember that Bain went beyond simple venture capitalism and delved into leveraged buyout realm. That is central casting Hollywood bad guy stuff...and Romney "I like to fire people" could win an Oscar for his role.

Leverage buy out is not a bad thing....you just think it is becuase you dont understand the concept.

You see....there is an analysis done.

"if this company stays as it is, it will ultimately start to lose money and not survive. IN the end, there will be debt owed, and the creditors will get pennies on the dollar.....but if we buy it now, sell off the assets, we will reimburse all that is owed and walk away with a nice profit."

Seems you prefer those who lent money be the losers and the employees get to keep their jobs a few months longer.....

 

[Jarhead]

Obama claims he's the guy to fix the economy and he uses division and class-warfare to do it....

There’s your problem with your ‘logic’ right there: Obama has engaged in neither ‘division’ nor ‘class-warfare,’ that’s something the right dreamed up.

the day he saiud the police acted stupidly wqas the day he engaged in division

The day he said that a pediatrician is likely to perform unecessary surgery on your child for the profit is the day he engaged in class warfare.

 

[Seawytch]

Remember that Bain went beyond simple venture capitalism and delved into leveraged buyout realm. That is central casting Hollywood bad guy stuff...and Romney "I like to fire people" could win an Oscar for his role.

Leverage buy out is not a bad thing....you just think it is becuase you dont understand the concept.

You see....there is an analysis done.

"if this company stays as it is, it will ultimately start to lose money and not survive. IN the end, there will be debt owed, and the creditors will get pennies on the dollar.....but if we buy it now, sell off the assets, we will reimburse all that is owed and walk away with a nice profit."

Seems you prefer those who lent money be the losers and the employees get to keep their jobs a few months longer.....

Leaving the companies deeply in debt and the workers laid off. I'ts not going to play well in Peoria. These are the "big boss", maximize-the-profits-no-matter-the-cost bad guys and Romney, the 1% robot, is the clip-art epitome of the guy that does the firing.

 

[Jarhead]

Remember that Bain went beyond simple venture capitalism and delved into leveraged buyout realm. That is central casting Hollywood bad guy stuff...and Romney "I like to fire people" could win an Oscar for his role.

Leverage buy out is not a bad thing....you just think it is becuase you dont understand the concept.

You see....there is an analysis done.

"if this company stays as it is, it will ultimately start to lose money and not survive. IN the end, there will be debt owed, and the creditors will get pennies on the dollar.....but if we buy it now, sell off the assets, we will reimburse all that is owed and walk away with a nice profit."

Seems you prefer those who lent money be the losers and the employees get to keep their jobs a few months longer.....

Leaving the companies deeply in debt and the workers laid off. I'ts not going to play well in Peoria. These are the "big boss", maximize-the-profits-no-matter-the-cost, bad guys and Romney, the 1% robot is the clip-art epitome of the guy that does the firing.

lol....they dont leave them in debt....unless there is resistance by an outside force.

For example...they may buy into a company that is failing...and they approach the union and say...to keep this company alive we need to renegotiate the union contract..and the union refuses...

But Bain, after in depth review of the business model knows that without changing the contract, the venture will fail....so they have no choice but to release themselves of the situation......

And so they sell off the assets, pay the debt, and walk away with whatever is left over.

Then you and your will blame Bain....but if the company went out of business 6 months later without Bain....who would you blame? The failed business model.....

Whatever,,,,you have no idea how venture capitalism works...you have no idea about leverage buyouts and how they work...you have no idea how financing is secured when a business is failing....

Yet you continue to want to debate the topic....

NBut everythiung you are saying is what tyou see in the movies.....you know...things that rarely happen.

I live in the NYC area....I have NEVER...in 53 years...saw a car chase through the streets of Manhattan...yet in every movie, there is at least one....

 

[Seawytch]

I certainly don't confess to being an economist, but I do know it is called "vulture capitalism" for a reason and I know that in the current economic climate and with the current populist anger that is out there, Romney is not going to get a lot of enthusiasm from people who used to have good paying jobs at companies that organizations like Bain chop shopped.

They cut or offshored the good paying jobs and kept the low wage, no benefits jobs here...selling products made overseas.

Contrast that to President Obama who has been talking about ensuring that more goods and products stamped "Made in America" are sold in the United States and around the world.

Romney might as well be tying Penelope Pitstop to the train tracks...

 

[Jarhead]

I certainly don't confess to being an economist, but I do know it is called "vulture capitalism" for a reason and I know that in the current economic climate and with the current populist anger that is out there, Romney is not going to get a lot of enthusiasm from people who used to have good paying jobs at companies that organizations like Bain chop shopped.

They cut or offshored the good paying jobs and kept the low wage, no benefits jobs here...selling products made overseas.

Contrast that to President Obama who has been talking about ensuring that more goods and products stamped "Made in America" are sold in the United States and around the world.

Romney might as well be tying Penelope Pitstop to the train tracks...

Vuture capitalism is a term tossed out there...sure....

Attorney's are called "snakes"....and for his first 4 years out of Law School, Obama was an attorney...making money off of tyhose poor people that needed legal assistance....

You can see the ills of what Bain did...but only if you believe that Bain was in the business of finding successful businesses and stripping them down for profit...

But logic says the following...

"why would a successful business owner turn to Bain and give them controlling shares of the company, if the business owner is doing well?"

Why?

Becuase one wouldnt.

One would only give Bain controlling shares if the owner was either losing money or rapidly losing market share...both resulting in a company going under...usually within a year.

 

[drippinhun]

Correct. They are not in the business of creating jobs...they are in the business of turning failed business models around.

However...the result is jobs created.

Please tell me what PROFIT industry is in the business of creating jobs.

FYI...there is none.

Sometimes they go in with the intent of stripping down the assets and selling off the shell to someone else, or just let it die.

 

[Seawytch]

I certainly don't confess to being an economist, but I do know it is called "vulture capitalism" for a reason and I know that in the current economic climate and with the current populist anger that is out there, Romney is not going to get a lot of enthusiasm from people who used to have good paying jobs at companies that organizations like Bain chop shopped.

They cut or offshored the good paying jobs and kept the low wage, no benefits jobs here...selling products made overseas.

Contrast that to President Obama who has been talking about ensuring that more goods and products stamped "Made in America" are sold in the United States and around the world.

Romney might as well be tying Penelope Pitstop to the train tracks...

Vuture capitalism is a term tossed out there...sure....

Attorney's are called "snakes"....and for his first 4 years out of Law School, Obama was an attorney...making money off of tyhose poor people that needed legal assistance....

You can see the ills of what Bain did...but only if you believe that Bain was in the business of finding successful businesses and stripping them down for profit...

But logic says the following...

"why would a successful business owner turn to Bain and give them controlling shares of the company, if the business owner is doing well?"

Why?

Becuase one wouldnt.

One would only give Bain controlling shares if the owner was either losing money or rapidly losing market share...both resulting in a company going under...usually within a year.

Bain was in the business of profit, period. That's the bottom line. They weren't in the business of making anything but money for their investors...by whatever means available (to include, but not limited to, offshoring jobs, laying off workers and bankrupting companies). That is what IS going to be playing for the next year...

The companies did not always give Bain controlling interest and when they did, they knew it was to make a PROFIT (again, by whatever means possible...screw the people).

 

[Greenbeard]

The day he said that a pediatrician is likely to perform unecessary surgery on your child for the profit is the day he engaged in class warfare.

You consider pointing out that people respond to financial incentives to be "class warfare"?

Isn't that concept one of the pillars of our economic system?

 

[Seawytch]

And in the end, the US Government is not a business and cannot be run like one.

 

[The Rabbi]

Remember that Bain went beyond simple venture capitalism and delved into leveraged buyout realm. That is central casting Hollywood bad guy stuff...and Romney "I like to fire people" could win an Oscar for his role.

When confronted with facts revert to parrot mode.

I guess it works. I can't think any worse of you than I already do. You've proven yourself incapable of dealing with evidence and spout generalities.
The truth is the Bain had private investors and whatever bank loans they got came through the strength of their equity position and their reputation for turning companies around.
Jarhead is right: Bain didnt pick on strong well-managed companies. Those would have commanded prices that made any investment sub-par for what Bain did.
In addition to restructurings, Bain also invested in start ups, giving jobs to many people who never would have had them. Something conveniently forgotten by the caricature artists.

 

[The Rabbi]

Correct. They are not in the business of creating jobs...they are in the business of turning failed business models around.

However...the result is jobs created.

Please tell me what PROFIT industry is in the business of creating jobs.

FYI...there is none.

Sometimes they go in with the intent of stripping down the assets and selling off the shell to someone else, or just let it die.

How many businesses are worth less than the value of their assets? Almost none.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Bain is irrelevant, and shouldn’t be factored in determining Romney’s qualifications to be president.

Romney is unqualified to be president because he’s weak and indecisive, he’ll allow the radical right to dictate policy, the same failed policy that brought us only war and recession during the Bush years.

 

[The Rabbi]

And in the end, the US Government is not a business and cannot be run like one.

So why is Obama and the Energy Dept selecting winners and losers ala Solyndra? Why are they playing venture capitalist with taxpayers' money?

 

[Jarhead]

I certainly don't confess to being an economist, but I do know it is called "vulture capitalism" for a reason and I know that in the current economic climate and with the current populist anger that is out there, Romney is not going to get a lot of enthusiasm from people who used to have good paying jobs at companies that organizations like Bain chop shopped.

They cut or offshored the good paying jobs and kept the low wage, no benefits jobs here...selling products made overseas.

Contrast that to President Obama who has been talking about ensuring that more goods and products stamped "Made in America" are sold in the United States and around the world.

Romney might as well be tying Penelope Pitstop to the train tracks...

Vuture capitalism is a term tossed out there...sure....

Attorney's are called "snakes"....and for his first 4 years out of Law School, Obama was an attorney...making money off of tyhose poor people that needed legal assistance....

You can see the ills of what Bain did...but only if you believe that Bain was in the business of finding successful businesses and stripping them down for profit...

But logic says the following...

"why would a successful business owner turn to Bain and give them controlling shares of the company, if the business owner is doing well?"

Why?

Becuase one wouldnt.

One would only give Bain controlling shares if the owner was either losing money or rapidly losing market share...both resulting in a company going under...usually within a year.

Bain was in the business of profit, period. That's the bottom line. They weren't in the business of making anything but money for their investors...by whatever means available (to include, but not limited to, offshoring jobs, laying off workers and bankrupting companies). That is what IS going to be playing for the next year...

The companies did not always give Bain controlling interest and when they did, they knew it was to make a PROFIT (again, by whatever means possible...screw the people).

The companies DID alwas willingly give control to Bain.

Yes...Bain was in the business to make money...by applying their expertise and trying to turn failed business models around...and at the very least, help the business owner lose as little money as possible.

You want the politicians to present it differently and mis represent what the man (Romney) knows as it pertains to the business world...go for it.

FYI...an attorney does not represent clients becuase he/she ONLY cares about the clients. He/she represents them to make money.

As does a doctor.

An accountant.

A payrol officer

A candy store owner

A campaign manager

A politician....who in cxongress is donating 100% of their salary to charity? Who takes the amount they would normally pay for healthcare benefits and donates that to charity as well as their entire salary?

You seem to want to villify a man for making a living.....I find that disturbing

 

[blastoff]

I worked in a company that was "fixed" by corporation raiders.

First they skimmed off our pension plan as having an "excess" amount. Then they reduced our pay by 20%, even though my unit was 100% commission. After that, they started squeesing the factory where our product was produced which resulted in over 40% of our customers quit us. After gutting the company for everything they could take (did I mention prior to their takeover, we had the highest profit margin of any similar company in thr United States?), the company was aquired by another investment firm and ithin a year it folded.

I have a special place in my heart, after watching people in their fifties and sixties who had worked over thirty years at the company be tossed into the streets, for people like Romney.

You're confusing corporate raiders with private equity firms such as Bain.

Raids are hostile actions by outsiders to acquire a company that has no interest in being acquired, which is why they're called takeovers. Generally their aim after acquiring ownership is to sell off the parts for more than they paid for the whole, leaving them a nice profit.

I worked for a company, an operating division of our parent company, that was wildly profitable as were most of the the other 20 or so companies our parent owned. A couple of guys, the Rales brothers out of Washington D.C., thought our parent a potential juicy target. So they announced their intentions and eventually offered $70 a share for the parent's stock, which had been trading in the mid to high $40 range at the time. That's a tidy profit to shareholders so enough of them tendered their shares and the Rales boys were the new owners. And the rest is history.

 

[Jarhead]

And in the end, the US Government is not a business and cannot be run like one.

So why is Obama and the Energy Dept selecting winners and losers ala Solyndra? Why are they playing venture capitalist with taxpayers' money?

Becuase that is OK.

It is Obama.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Obama claims he's the guy to fix the economy and he uses division and class-warfare to do it....

There’s your problem with your ‘logic’ right there: Obama has engaged in neither ‘division’ nor ‘class-warfare,’ that’s something the right dreamed up.

And your problem is you're seeing what you want to see.