So....how many posters do we have who have heard of this INCEL Movement?

[WinterBorn]

It just occurred to me, are you counting the money given to the person as benefits to be part of the multiplier effect? If someone pays you to do something, that is part of the multiplier effect. If money is take from someone and given to someone else, that is not a positive multiplier effect.

why do you say that?

Capitalism doesn't care about fake, right wing alleged morality, Only Capital.

I say that because every step in the process of the positive multiplier effect is an exchange. People exchange goods and services for money. Except the tax that provides you with money is not an exchange. The money is taken, but nothing is given in return. It is not multiplied because it was a negative effect and then a positive effect. First someone had the money they earned taken away, then someone had money they did not earn given to them.

That is not how a positive multiplier effect works.

And, we have fiat money not commodity money.

If I have $100 taken, and nothing given in return, and you get $100 and do nothing in return, that is NOT an example of the positive multiplier effect.

Also, the multiplier effect works just as well without giving money away. It circulates and multiplies just as well. Handing money out to people who do not work for it is not a good economic policy.

lol. nobody takes right wingers seriously about economics.

Compensating the unemployed with unemployment compensation is not simply giving someone money.

Those people who receive that compensation will spend it sooner rather than later. Every time money circulates, someone is getting money and taxes are being paid.

So if they are drawing unemployment, do they still have to report weekly with 4 verifiable sources that they applied for work?

 

[WinterBorn]

Overall, the amount of money available for a positive multiplier effect is lower, since there is a significant cost involved in redistributing the money.

If I make $100, I spend it and it is in turn respent several times, compounding the effect.

If the gov't takes $100, that money leaves the local economy. At best, $75 returns to the local economy in the form of monetary benefits to the poor. Yes, it will be spent and respent, but since there is less to begin with there is less for the positive multiplier effect to compound.

lol. means testing is more expensive than unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed. solving for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment increases the efficiency of our economy.

Socialism can correct for capitalism's natural rate inefficiency through the Individual Liberty of compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment, on an at-will basis.

Means testing is simply an efficient way to prevent fraud. In other words, the welfare system is expressly designed to help someone who needs the help. If you don't need the help, you can't get it and should get it. Fraud drains the resources that can be used to help the needy poor.

Means testing is not efficient.

Compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is efficient.

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

Need? I think you are confusing the word "want" with the word "need". You may be unemployed, but you do not need compensation.

 

[danielpalos]

lol. means testing is more expensive than unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed. solving for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment increases the efficiency of our economy.

Socialism can correct for capitalism's natural rate inefficiency through the Individual Liberty of compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment, on an at-will basis.

Means testing is simply an efficient way to prevent fraud. In other words, the welfare system is expressly designed to help someone who needs the help. If you don't need the help, you can't get it and should get it. Fraud drains the resources that can be used to help the needy poor.

Means testing is not efficient.

Compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is efficient.

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

There is no requirement for compensation either.

lol. The legal concept of unemployment compensation already exists in our Republic.

 

[danielpalos]

why do you say that?

Capitalism doesn't care about fake, right wing alleged morality, Only Capital.

I say that because every step in the process of the positive multiplier effect is an exchange. People exchange goods and services for money. Except the tax that provides you with money is not an exchange. The money is taken, but nothing is given in return. It is not multiplied because it was a negative effect and then a positive effect. First someone had the money they earned taken away, then someone had money they did not earn given to them.

That is not how a positive multiplier effect works.

And, we have fiat money not commodity money.

If I have $100 taken, and nothing given in return, and you get $100 and do nothing in return, that is NOT an example of the positive multiplier effect.

Also, the multiplier effect works just as well without giving money away. It circulates and multiplies just as well. Handing money out to people who do not work for it is not a good economic policy.

lol. nobody takes right wingers seriously about economics.

Compensating the unemployed with unemployment compensation is not simply giving someone money.

Those people who receive that compensation will spend it sooner rather than later. Every time money circulates, someone is getting money and taxes are being paid.

So if they are drawing unemployment, do they still have to report weekly with 4 verifiable sources that they applied for work?

No. Under Capitalism, we merely need follow the money trail if persons prefer to be Bad and not Good.

Why commit fraud if you can get paid to not work?

 

[danielpalos]

lol. means testing is more expensive than unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed. solving for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment increases the efficiency of our economy.

Socialism can correct for capitalism's natural rate inefficiency through the Individual Liberty of compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment, on an at-will basis.

Means testing is simply an efficient way to prevent fraud. In other words, the welfare system is expressly designed to help someone who needs the help. If you don't need the help, you can't get it and should get it. Fraud drains the resources that can be used to help the needy poor.

Means testing is not efficient.

Compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is efficient.

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

Need? I think you are confusing the word "want" with the word "need". You may be unemployed, but you do not need compensation.

i believe in solving for actual economic phenomena rather than simply telling stories.

 

[WinterBorn]

Means testing is simply an efficient way to prevent fraud. In other words, the welfare system is expressly designed to help someone who needs the help. If you don't need the help, you can't get it and should get it. Fraud drains the resources that can be used to help the needy poor.

Means testing is not efficient.

Compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is efficient.

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

There is no requirement for compensation either.

lol. The legal concept of unemployment compensation already exists in our Republic.

Yes it does. But with limitations. Just because the legal concept exists does not mean it can be demanded by every person.

It is offered as assistance for those who lost their job through no fault of their own. Just like lawsuit awards are for those who suffered because of the negligence of others.

 

[WinterBorn]

I say that because every step in the process of the positive multiplier effect is an exchange. People exchange goods and services for money. Except the tax that provides you with money is not an exchange. The money is taken, but nothing is given in return. It is not multiplied because it was a negative effect and then a positive effect. First someone had the money they earned taken away, then someone had money they did not earn given to them.

That is not how a positive multiplier effect works.

And, we have fiat money not commodity money.

If I have $100 taken, and nothing given in return, and you get $100 and do nothing in return, that is NOT an example of the positive multiplier effect.

Also, the multiplier effect works just as well without giving money away. It circulates and multiplies just as well. Handing money out to people who do not work for it is not a good economic policy.

lol. nobody takes right wingers seriously about economics.

Compensating the unemployed with unemployment compensation is not simply giving someone money.

Those people who receive that compensation will spend it sooner rather than later. Every time money circulates, someone is getting money and taxes are being paid.

So if they are drawing unemployment, do they still have to report weekly with 4 verifiable sources that they applied for work?

No. Under Capitalism, we merely need follow the money trail if persons prefer to be Bad and not Good.

Why commit fraud if you can get paid to not work?

So you want unemployment compensation without seeking unemployment? lol Sorry, that's not how it works.

And you do not get paid not to work. You get paid to actively seek work.

 

[WinterBorn]

Means testing is simply an efficient way to prevent fraud. In other words, the welfare system is expressly designed to help someone who needs the help. If you don't need the help, you can't get it and should get it. Fraud drains the resources that can be used to help the needy poor.

Means testing is not efficient.

Compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is efficient.

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

Need? I think you are confusing the word "want" with the word "need". You may be unemployed, but you do not need compensation.

i believe in solving for actual economic phenomena rather than simply telling stories.

No. You want money for your luxuries, and you defend it by claiming altruistic ideals. But it is still wanting money for luxuries without being willing to work for it.

You want luxuries? Get a job.

 

[danielpalos]

Means testing is not efficient.

Compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is efficient.

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

There is no requirement for compensation either.

lol. The legal concept of unemployment compensation already exists in our Republic.

Yes it does. But with limitations. Just because the legal concept exists does not mean it can be demanded by every person.

It is offered as assistance for those who lost their job through no fault of their own. Just like lawsuit awards are for those who suffered because of the negligence of others.

those, limitations, are unequal protection of the law for the Poor and unjust when the Richest are too rich to fail in our Republic.

 

[danielpalos]

That is not how a positive multiplier effect works.

And, we have fiat money not commodity money.

If I have $100 taken, and nothing given in return, and you get $100 and do nothing in return, that is NOT an example of the positive multiplier effect.

Also, the multiplier effect works just as well without giving money away. It circulates and multiplies just as well. Handing money out to people who do not work for it is not a good economic policy.

lol. nobody takes right wingers seriously about economics.

Compensating the unemployed with unemployment compensation is not simply giving someone money.

Those people who receive that compensation will spend it sooner rather than later. Every time money circulates, someone is getting money and taxes are being paid.

So if they are drawing unemployment, do they still have to report weekly with 4 verifiable sources that they applied for work?

No. Under Capitalism, we merely need follow the money trail if persons prefer to be Bad and not Good.

Why commit fraud if you can get paid to not work?

So you want unemployment compensation without seeking unemployment? lol Sorry, that's not how it works.

And you do not get paid not to work. You get paid to actively seek work.

it is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

 

[danielpalos]

Means testing is not efficient.

Compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is efficient.

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

Need? I think you are confusing the word "want" with the word "need". You may be unemployed, but you do not need compensation.

i believe in solving for actual economic phenomena rather than simply telling stories.

No. You want money for your luxuries, and you defend it by claiming altruistic ideals. But it is still wanting money for luxuries without being willing to work for it.

You want luxuries? Get a job.

lol. you need the moral high ground for that, story teller. too bad we also have a First Amendment.

 

[danielpalos]

Employment is at the will of either party not just the employer for full benefits from unemployment compensation.

 

[WinterBorn]

Just mailing out checks if someone says they are unemployed? Sure. No chance of fraud in a system like that.

No requirement to show need? No requirement to show they are not independently wealthy?

Just say you don't have a job and get paid for it? Of course, some states don't pay much. Florida's unemployment compensation maxes out at $275 a week. But that is still $1191 a month. For doing nothing.

Why do you think you are owed money for doing nothing?

Do you still have to report your search for work, with 4 verifiable sources each week?

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

There is no requirement for compensation either.

lol. The legal concept of unemployment compensation already exists in our Republic.

Yes it does. But with limitations. Just because the legal concept exists does not mean it can be demanded by every person.

It is offered as assistance for those who lost their job through no fault of their own. Just like lawsuit awards are for those who suffered because of the negligence of others.

those, limitations, are unequal protection of the law for the Poor and unjust when the Richest are too rich to fail in our Republic.

No, those limitation define the compensation to be used to help those in need.

Disability is a legal concept too. Should we make it available to everyone?

 

[WinterBorn]

If I have $100 taken, and nothing given in return, and you get $100 and do nothing in return, that is NOT an example of the positive multiplier effect.

Also, the multiplier effect works just as well without giving money away. It circulates and multiplies just as well. Handing money out to people who do not work for it is not a good economic policy.

lol. nobody takes right wingers seriously about economics.

Compensating the unemployed with unemployment compensation is not simply giving someone money.

Those people who receive that compensation will spend it sooner rather than later. Every time money circulates, someone is getting money and taxes are being paid.

So if they are drawing unemployment, do they still have to report weekly with 4 verifiable sources that they applied for work?

No. Under Capitalism, we merely need follow the money trail if persons prefer to be Bad and not Good.

Why commit fraud if you can get paid to not work?

So you want unemployment compensation without seeking unemployment? lol Sorry, that's not how it works.

And you do not get paid not to work. You get paid to actively seek work.

it is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

No, it is not. Of course, many victims of the natural rate of unemployment can draw compensation. They lost their job through no fault of their own and are actively seeking work.

 

[bodecea]

I would wager that many INCELs are unemployed...unemployable......and spend as much time excusing it, blaming it on women and life and so on and so forth.

 

[WinterBorn]

Employment is at the will of either party not just the employer for full benefits from unemployment compensation.

This is the same nonsense you have been posting for weeks.

It is at the will of either party, true. Either can end it at any time. But the employee getting paid for not providing labor while the employer does without labor is not equal protect of the law.

And the employer does not benefit from unemployment compensation. He has to work for his compensation.

 

[danielpalos]

The need is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

There is no work requirement in any at-will employment State.

There is no requirement for compensation either.

lol. The legal concept of unemployment compensation already exists in our Republic.

Yes it does. But with limitations. Just because the legal concept exists does not mean it can be demanded by every person.

It is offered as assistance for those who lost their job through no fault of their own. Just like lawsuit awards are for those who suffered because of the negligence of others.

those, limitations, are unequal protection of the law for the Poor and unjust when the Richest are too rich to fail in our Republic.

No, those limitation define the compensation to be used to help those in need.

Disability is a legal concept too. Should we make it available to everyone?

Unemployment compensation is not welfare. It is Compensation for Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

 

[danielpalos]

lol. nobody takes right wingers seriously about economics.

Compensating the unemployed with unemployment compensation is not simply giving someone money.

Those people who receive that compensation will spend it sooner rather than later. Every time money circulates, someone is getting money and taxes are being paid.

So if they are drawing unemployment, do they still have to report weekly with 4 verifiable sources that they applied for work?

No. Under Capitalism, we merely need follow the money trail if persons prefer to be Bad and not Good.

Why commit fraud if you can get paid to not work?

So you want unemployment compensation without seeking unemployment? lol Sorry, that's not how it works.

And you do not get paid not to work. You get paid to actively seek work.

it is compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment.

No, it is not. Of course, many victims of the natural rate of unemployment can draw compensation. They lost their job through no fault of their own and are actively seeking work.

Yes, it is.

 

[danielpalos]

I would wager that many INCELs are unemployed...unemployable......and spend as much time excusing it, blaming it on women and life and so on and so forth.

you haven't won any arguments with me yet.

 

[danielpalos]

Employment is at the will of either party not just the employer for full benefits from unemployment compensation.

This is the same nonsense you have been posting for weeks.

It is at the will of either party, true. Either can end it at any time. But the employee getting paid for not providing labor while the employer does without labor is not equal protect of the law.

And the employer does not benefit from unemployment compensation. He has to work for his compensation.

nice irrelevant story. the employer is supposed to hire someone and have them ready to go.