Socialism and the purpose of government

[Harpy Eagle]

And, nobody will be forcing you to stay here when we put down this 80+ year communist revolution and 150+ year usurpation of power over state sovereignty.

That is the weakest argument you have mead.

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Why do you assume I am against such a thing?

You've been supporting all day today.

liar

America: love it or leave it.

That's you.

That is not what I said at all. Are lies all you have left? I will take that as a win

 

[bripat9643]

A question for all the anti-government folks in this thread.

Other than doing a lot of bitching and name calling on an internet forum...what are you doing about your complaints?

what actions have you taken to rectify the situation?

What the fuck are you doing in this forum if you aren't interested in changing anything in this country? About the only thing you do is defend the status quo.

It is good entertainment and I get to hear ideas and thoughts I would not otherwise see as most people do not talk about these things in public.

Why do you think bitching on an internet forum will change anything?

You vote for one of the established parties, but think coming on here and bitching will change things?

I'm spreading ideas that most Americans have never been exposed to. Before you can change things, you have to convince people that they should be changed.

On the other hand, you are just flapping your gums for no useful purpose.

 

[Oddball]

Why do you assume I am against such a thing?

That's not the point.

The point is that instead of making an argument for an all-powerful central government, you are simply telling us to accept the shit we are given and never try an improve it. Or, that's how it is coming off. Either way, it adds nothing to this discussion.

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I am not telling you to accept it or leave, I am pointing out that nobody is forcing you to stay. There is no authority keeping you here, you freely choose to stay here.

You cannot claim you are forced to do things when you do have an option you choose not to take advantage of.

They are forcing me to follow their rules and pay their taxes if I stay. Are you telling us that isn't using force? What you are saying is that being limited to one thing that an external force imposes on you is free choice. You have to be a fucking moron to accept that.

Keep saying I smoked him out as the fake libertarian that he is months ago....Now he's in the process of demonstrating it for all to see...Turns out my intuition was spot on.

 

[bripat9643]

And, nobody will be forcing you to stay here when we put down this 80+ year communist revolution and 150+ year usurpation of power over state sovereignty.

That is the weakest argument you have mead.

.

Why do you assume I am against such a thing?

You've been supporting all day today.

liar

America: love it or leave it.

That's you.

That is not what I said at all. Are lies all you have left? I will take that as a win

Yes, that is essentially what you said. You just don't like it when someone points out what a redneck thug you are.

 

[Hum Dinger]

"Economic Justice" is the commie tyrant's code term for "give me your fucking money or my henchman (government) will kill you"

The only justice that should be available regarding the economy is letting the earner keep his earnings.

So you'd agree that workers should receive pay equal to the productive value of their work, not the market value of their job skills?

 

[dblack]

Somalia is the current example of a nation with no central government.

If not having a central government is the solution too all our problems, why is Somalia such a shithole?

You are mistakenly assuming that Somalia's problems are cause by a lack of a central government. That is high unfounded assumption.

Somalia is a shit hole because the people there are uneducated as fuck and have no concept of self-government or liberty. They have lived for thousands of years being ruled by thug war lords. They have little or no frame of reference and most see no value in education. Somalia is simply living out its past. That place has never changed.

This is the folly of attempting to cite any given society as proof that their form of government is good or bad. Whether it's pointing to Venezuela as proof that socialism sucks, or pretending that the disaster of Somalia is the natural result of freedom. Neither is valid. A healthy society can make most any form of government work, in some fashion. Likewise, a society that is morally decimated will make a mess of pretty much any kind government.

 

[Oddball]

"Economic Justice" is the commie tyrant's code term for "give me your fucking money or my henchman (government) will kill you"

The only justice that should be available regarding the economy is letting the earner keep his earnings.

So you'd agree that workers should receive pay equal to the productive value of their work, not the market value of their job skills?

Employees should work for what the employer is paying...If they think they deserve more, they can get off their complacent ass and negotiate.

In any event, nothing is preventing them (other than idiotic licensing, bonding, and other compliance regulations) from striking out on their own and becoming a private contractor.

 

[bripat9643]

Somalia is the current example of a nation with no central government.

If not having a central government is the solution too all our problems, why is Somalia such a shithole?

You are mistakenly assuming that Somalia's problems are cause by a lack of a central government. That is high unfounded assumption.

Somalia is a shit hole because the people there are uneducated as fuck and have no concept of self-government or liberty. They have lived for thousands of years being ruled by thug war lords. They have little or no frame of reference and most see no value in education. Somalia is simply living out its past. That place has never changed.

This is the folly of attempting to cite any given society as proof that their form of government is good or bad. Whether it's pointing to Venezuela as proof that socialism sucks, or pretending that the disaster of Somalia is the natural result of freedom. Neither is valid. A healthy society can make most any form of government work, in some fashion. Likewise, a society that is morally decimated will make a mess of pretty much any kind government.

Wrong. Nothing can ever make socialism work. A healthy society is a free society, which means it doesn't impose socialism on its members.

 

[dblack]

So you'd agree that workers should receive pay equal to the productive value of their work, not the market value of their job skills?

Who decides what the true "productive value of their work" is?

 

[bripat9643]

So you'd agree that workers should receive pay equal to the productive value of their work, not the market value of their job skills?

Who decides what the true "productive value of their work" is?

The person paying for it decided.

 

[Hum Dinger]

That has to be one of the stupidest statements ever made on this message board!

The U.S. government has been the single greatest institution in this world for protecting people's rights!

The very concept of people having rights was initiated by the founding fathers of this nation.

You may want to go back to the days of Kings and slaves, but the rest of us prefer modern government.

Sorry if that limits all you 'would be' kings.

Why is it that a large portion of our population hated what the founders did and want to remove it?

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Because, as you keep proving, there are some kooks in every population.

 

[Hum Dinger]

They already had government. All they brought it with them. The Indians lived there for thousands of years with no formal government. They had no means of enforcing laws other than social pressure.

once again your knowledge of history is lacking, to put it nicely.

All of the Indian tribes had a system of governing with leaders and rules.

They had leaders. There was no organized means of compulsion. You are redefining government to the point of meaninglessness.

Yes they did, you followed the rules of the leaders or you were killed or banished. Seems a pretty good means of compulsion.

That's wrong. The tribe might kill you for treason. Otherwise you were free to do what you liked.

Do you know ANYTHING about the AZTECs?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

High school kids follow directions out of social pressure. A highschool clique is not government.

Maybe we are working from different perspectives on what it means to be governed or to govern. You are focusing on a more formal structure or organization. I am focusing on the process.

A high school clique could be a form of government. High school organizations have governing bodies. Hell, the student body has its on government.

A family is a form of government. That's really all tribes are made of. Family units on top of family units, all related to each other.

Government is nothing more than the prescribed method certain humans have adopted to solve problems and resolve their disputes. Those accepted methods ALWAYS result in someone having authority.

That's why anarchy can never exist. It is impossible.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Other than doing a lot of bitching and name calling on an internet forum...what are you doing about your complaints?

what actions have you taken to rectify the situation?

What do you recommend?

.

 

[Hum Dinger]

So you'd agree that workers should receive pay equal to the productive value of their work, not the market value of their job skills?

Who decides what the true "productive value of their work" is?

The question should be 'how', not 'who'. It can be determined by simple equations. Any University has mathematicians that could figure it out for any company.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Because, as you keep proving, there are some kooks in every population.

How am I proving that?

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[Oddball]

So you'd agree that workers should receive pay equal to the productive value of their work, not the market value of their job skills?

Who decides what the true "productive value of their work" is?

The question should be 'how', not 'who'. It can be determined by simple equations. Any University has mathematicians that could figure it out for any company.

Those of us in business know those mathematics as a "business model", Karl....Like I said, you're in way over your head here.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Why do you assume I am against such a thing?

You've been supporting all day today.

liar

America: love it or leave it.

That's you.

That is not what I said at all. Are lies all you have left? I will take that as a win

Yes, that is essentially what you said. You just don't like it when someone points out what a redneck thug you are.

The problem here is that you are just not a very smart person so you see everything as black and white...in your little mind one is either totally anti-government or they are for an all powerful government.

But that is simply not the case for most thinking people. Which leaves you out


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[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The question should be 'how', not 'who'. It can be determined by simple equations. Any University has mathematicians that could figure it out for any company.

I have an easier way that is time-tested and proven to be the only real, fair way to figure the value of one's labor.

The free market.

See, the value of one's labor is determined by what another person is willing to pay. If nobody wants to pay a dime for your work, it is worthless.

It's like figuring out the value of a 5-bedroom, 4500 square foot house. It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If nobody is willing to pay $4 million dollars for it, guess what? IT AIN'T WORTH $4 MILLION DOLLARS.

.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

A question for all the anti-government folks in this thread.

Other than doing a lot of bitching and name calling on an internet forum...what are you doing about your complaints?

what actions have you taken to rectify the situation?

What the fuck are you doing in this forum if you aren't interested in changing anything in this country? About the only thing you do is defend the status quo.

It is good entertainment and I get to hear ideas and thoughts I would not otherwise see as most people do not talk about these things in public.

Why do you think bitching on an internet forum will change anything?

You vote for one of the established parties, but think coming on here and bitching will change things?

I'm spreading ideas that most Americans have never been exposed to. Before you can change things, you have to convince people that they should be changed.

On the other hand, you are just flapping your gums for no useful purpose.

I am truly laughing out loud. Your whole course of action is to keep voting for the establishment while coming here and bitching....and you think that is going to make a difference!




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