some people are real assholes

[007]

guilty by association or proximity, right?

In a war zone.

 

[OCA]

guilty by association or proximity, right?

Absolutely. If you are with or next to someone who is committing a crime or knowingly withold information which I believe could be the case with some of these roaches then I feel no guilt or remorse for their treatment. The fact remains if these people had not been in cahoots with or proximity to the bad guys the chances are they would not be in custody.

This is war, there are no civil right protections to illegal detainment(I don't care what the Geneva Convention says)

 

[DKSuddeth]

Absolutely. If you are with or next to someone who is committing a crime or knowingly withold information which I believe could be the case with some of these roaches then I feel no guilt or remorse for their treatment. The fact remains if these people had not been in cahoots with or proximity to the bad guys the chances are they would not be in custody.

This is war, there are no civil right protections to illegal detainment(I don't care what the Geneva Convention says)

should we apply that methodology in our own country as well?

 

[Fmr jarhead]

I spent eight years in the Air Force jar, and I'm a 60% service connected disabled veteran.

With that in mind, you wonder would I have ratted out my fellow servicemen? Well, I might have tried to point out that what we were doing wasn't right, and MAY get us in trouble. But rat them out? Not just no, but HELL NO!!

Maybe you've just identified one of the major differences btween the Marine Corps and the Air Force, if this is the proper procedure you were taught through your military experience. (in which case, I find it to be completely inadequate, and highly isolated, since all of the other members of the AF I know would have most certainly have done the right thing, and not advocated personal bias or prejudices in lieu of enforcing the UCMJ and the Geneva Convention)

You are a renegade, and can stand alone on this one.....No human being deserves to be treated as the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were treated. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time can be a bitch, and we don't have the luxury of those kinds of "mistakes" when trying to lead by example. Do you think the the example set by those who have now been found guilty is something to be proud of?

I will not comment on what should be done the medieval barbarians that commit beheadings and terrorist acts....I think you and I would agree on the punishment of those found guilty of such heinous acts.

It's a pleasure to speak with you, PR....but we can disagree with the behavior of what you call "ratting out," and what I call necessary, if we would like to be the example of how human beings should behave under such dire circumstances.

 

[Merlin1047]

So a couple of them had to wear their underwear on their head and pile on their brother naked. Well boo fucking hoo. That's a fucking tea party compared to getting your HEAD SAWED OFF! And you want me to be the one to help these animals?

Not on your life.

Let's say that I fully understand where you're coming from and I do not entirely disagree with your sentiment. I'm pragmatic enough to accept some "abuse" of prisoners in the form of humiliation, sleep deprivation etc provided that some purpose is served by those actions. For example, the LTC who fired a round from his pistol near a prisoner's head and thereby gained valuable intelligence which may well have saved many American lives. Personally, that doesn't even qualify as "abuse" in my book, but somehow a lot of brass got their butts up on their shoulders over that one.

If being tough on prisoners extracts information which will shorten the war and save the lives of our service people, then I have no problem with it provided it does not descend to the level of outright torture.

But we should not make excuses for nor condone the actions of those who mistreat prisoners for no purpose other than their own sadistic entertainment.

 

[OCA]

should we apply that methodology in our own country as well?

If i'm on the corner everyday with dope dealers but never caught with or selling dope, is it not reasonable to still assume i'm involved somehow and just smart or lucky enough not to have been caught? Guilty by association I think its called.

Because a person is with insurgents yet is not caught with a weapon or actually fighting does not neccessarily make them innocent, I believe the people at Abu Ghraib were there for very good reasons, I have not given up hope on the military yet.

 

[OCA]

Let's say that I fully understand where you're coming from and I do not entirely disagree with your sentiment. I'm pragmatic enough to accept some "abuse" of prisoners in the form of humiliation, sleep deprivation etc provided that some purpose is served by those actions. For example, the LTC who fired a round from his pistol near a prisoner's head and thereby gained valuable intelligence which may well have saved many American lives. Personally, that doesn't even qualify as "abuse" in my book, but somehow a lot of brass got their butts up on their shoulders over that one.

If being tough on prisoners extracts information which will shorten the war and save the lives of our service people, then I have no problem with it provided it does not descend to the level of outright torture.

But we should not make excuses for nor condone the actions of those who mistreat prisoners for no purpose other than their own sadistic entertainment.

The thing is though has it ever been proven that these soldiers did what they did for their own "sadistic reasons? Or was it just assumed?

 

[Merlin1047]

The thing is though has it ever been proven that these soldiers did what they did for their own "sadistic reasons? Or was it just assumed?

Certainly a point to consider. But don't you think that if there was any credible evidence of substantial involvement by the chain of command or by the administration that the media would have been all over it?

 

[Bullypulpit]

I spent eight years in the Air Force jar, and I'm a 60% service connected disabled veteran.

With that in mind, you wonder would I have ratted out my fellow servicemen? Well, I might have tried to point out that what we were doing wasn't right, and MAY get us in trouble. But rat them out? Not just no, but HELL NO!!

To remain silent in the face of evil is to condone it. That's how Hitler came to power and the Holocaust came to pass...Remaining silent in the face of evil. You're pathetic.

 

[OCA]

To remain silent in the face of evil is to condone it. That's how Hitler came to power and the Holocaust came to pass...Remaining silent in the face of evil. You're pathetic.

There it is! When you have nothing important or useful to say hit em with the Hitler and evil comments, bravo Bully!

 

[Bullypulpit]

There it is! When you have nothing important or useful to say hit em with the Hitler and evil comments, bravo Bully!

"...<b>some people are real assholes</b>..."

OCA, you are a living, breathing example of the threads header.

 

[OCA]

"...<b>some people are real assholes</b>..."

OCA, you are a living, breathing example of the threads header.

My condolences to your parents, it must be a real burden to them knowing they unleashed you on society, the shame must be overwhelming.

 

[nakedemperor]

My condolences to your parents, it must be a real burden to them knowing they unleashed you on society, the shame must be overwhelming.

 

[Bullypulpit]

My condolences to your parents, it must be a real burden to them knowing they unleashed you on society, the shame must be overwhelming.

Obviously projecting your own inferiority complex and insecurities on others.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Yeah, time to put out the flame-thrower...

 

[OCA]

Naked be advised, do not get into a flame war with me, i'm the champ, the depths to which i'll go are limitless.

 

[OCA]

Obviously projecting your own inferiority complex and insecurities on others.

Yeah go to the psychobabble b.s. when you have nothing better to say. Why don't you take a hike Bully and quit blowing smoke up everyone's ass. Go crawl back into the loser sewer from whence you came. Or should I post that classy p.m. you sent me about 10 minutes ago? Be advised I don't give a fuck tonight.

 

[OCA]

Yeah, time to put out the flame-thrower...

Bring it on boy! I love sweeping manure up! You aren't man enough to go at it with me so i'm giving you this last chance to logoff and bow out.

 

[Annie]

Yeah go to the psychobabble b.s. when you have nothing better to say. Why don't you take a hike Bully and quit blowing smoke up everyone's ass. Go crawl back into the loser sewer from whence you came. Or should I post that classy p.m. you sent me about 10 minutes ago? Be advised I don't give a fuck tonight.

OCA pm's stay private....

 

[DKSuddeth]

The flaming stops as of now.