Sorry, liberals: Reagan and Bush 41 did not defy Congress with executive amnesty

[RandallFlagg]

Cubans and Soviets only had to get here and "defect" and they were in, because they came from communist countries. Not the same with these invaders from Mexico.[/QUOTE]


Indeed. Political asylum has nothing to do with immigration - let alone amnesty

 

[RandallFlagg]

That's the other thing that irritates the living hell out of me. The Emperor continually states "Everyone knows that our immigration system is broken". BULLSHIT. Nothing is broken. Our laws are just fine with the exception that this Emperor REFUSES to do his damned job and enforce the laws.

This code-word crap of a "broken" immigration system is nothing more than code for "Open Borders". THAT, ladies and gentlemen is the point, in it's entirety, with The Emperor.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Stephanie]

What about a President who stirs things up on us to the point or riots, looting and threats against the citizens he's suppose to represent?

SNIP:
DHS: Obama’s Immigration Decree Will Be ‘Comprehensive’ »
Boehner: Here Are 22 Times that Obama Said He Could Not Do What He Is About to Do

by
Bryan Preston
Bio
November 19, 2014 - 1:16 pm

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) has helpfully cataloged all 22 times that President Barack Obama admitted that tomorrow’s illegal immigration executive is illegal.
The president’s statements go back as far as 2008 and are as recent as this year. They repeat similar themes, so there is no Gruberesque “speak-o” here. It’s just Barack Obama saying things that he now intends to pretend he did not say, but which clearly show that he knows that what is doing is illegal.
Here is the full list.

1. “I take the Constitution very seriously. The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with [the president] trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all. And that’s what I intend to reverse when I’m President of the United States of America.” (3/31/08)
2. “We’ve got a government designed by the Founders so that there’d be checks and balances. You don’t want a president who’s too powerful or a Congress that’s too powerful or a court that’s too powerful. Everybody’s got their own role. Congress’s job is to pass legislation. The president can veto it or he can sign it. … I believe in the Constitution and I will obey the Constitution of the United States. We’re not going to use signing statements as a way of doing an end-run around Congress.” (5/19/08)
3. “Comprehensive reform, that’s how we’re going to solve this problem. … Anybody who tells you it’s going to be easy or that I can wave a magic wand and make it happen hasn’t been paying attention to how this town works.” (5/5/10)

ALL of it here:
The PJ Tatler Boehner Here Are 22 Times that Obama Said He Could Not Do What He Is About to Do

 

[g5000]

They did not go against the people or congress. Their decisions supported legislation that had already passed. Big difference between that and a president who ignores congress and the people and does what he wants.

Sorry, liberals: Reagan and Bush 41 did not defy Congress with executive amnesty
http://www.caintv.com/sorry-liberals-reagan-and-bush

Obama has not granted amnesty either.

In fact, his deferred action is identical to that of Reagan and Bush. Particularly Bush. Bush anticipated certain immigrants would be granted amnesty under pending legislation, and so he deferred deportation.

Just so with Obama. When he deferred action on illegals who came here as children, he did so in anticipation that future legislation would grant them amnesty.

Your mistake is in assuming Obama is granting AMNESTY. He isn't. He is deferring deportation in expectation that those he is protecting will soon be provided a path to citizenship by Congress.

His Executive Orders have not, and would not, provide that path.

 

[Conservative65]

They did not go against the people or congress. Their decisions supported legislation that had already passed. Big difference between that and a president who ignores congress and the people and does what he wants.

Sorry, liberals: Reagan and Bush 41 did not defy Congress with executive amnesty
[URL='http://www.caintv.com/sorry-liberals-reagan-and-bush[/QUOTE']http://www.caintv.com/sorry-liberals-reagan-and-bush[/URL]

Quite a big difference. Reagan and Bush 41 and the Affirmative Action President who does things his way because others tell him no.

 

[RandallFlagg]

What about a President who stirs things up on us to the point or riots, looting and threats against the citizens he's suppose to represent?

SNIP:
DHS: Obama’s Immigration Decree Will Be ‘Comprehensive’ »
Boehner: Here Are 22 Times that Obama Said He Could Not Do What He Is About to Do

by
Bryan Preston
Bio
November 19, 2014 - 1:16 pm

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) has helpfully cataloged all 22 times that President Barack Obama admitted that tomorrow’s illegal immigration executive is illegal.
The president’s statements go back as far as 2008 and are as recent as this year. They repeat similar themes, so there is no Gruberesque “speak-o” here. It’s just Barack Obama saying things that he now intends to pretend he did not say, but which clearly show that he knows that what is doing is illegal.
Here is the full list.

1. “I take the Constitution very seriously. The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with [the president] trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all. And that’s what I intend to reverse when I’m President of the United States of America.” (3/31/08)
2. “We’ve got a government designed by the Founders so that there’d be checks and balances. You don’t want a president who’s too powerful or a Congress that’s too powerful or a court that’s too powerful. Everybody’s got their own role. Congress’s job is to pass legislation. The president can veto it or he can sign it. … I believe in the Constitution and I will obey the Constitution of the United States. We’re not going to use signing statements as a way of doing an end-run around Congress.” (5/19/08)
3. “Comprehensive reform, that’s how we’re going to solve this problem. … Anybody who tells you it’s going to be easy or that I can wave a magic wand and make it happen hasn’t been paying attention to how this town works.” (5/5/10)

ALL of it here:
The PJ Tatler Boehner Here Are 22 Times that Obama Said He Could Not Do What He Is About to Do

I know. Or, as he put it ".........I am not an Emperor". Apparently some piece of gutter trash over at the DOJ "thinks" he found a way for the "Emperor" to actually act as an "Emperor". So, from this day forward - that half-breed will be known as "The Emperor".



God Save The Emperor!!!!

 

[RandallFlagg]

They did not go against the people or congress. Their decisions supported legislation that had already passed. Big difference between that and a president who ignores congress and the people and does what he wants.

Sorry, liberals: Reagan and Bush 41 did not defy Congress with executive amnesty
http://www.caintv.com/sorry-liberals-reagan-and-bush

Obama has not granted amnesty either.

In fact, his deferred action is identical to that of Reagan and Bush. Particularly Bush. Bush anticipated certain immigrants would be granted amnesty under pending legislation, and so he deferred deportation.

Just so with Obama. When he deferred action on illegals who came here as children, he did so in anticipation that future legislation would grant them amnesty.

Your mistake is in assuming Obama is granting AMNESTY. He isn't. He is deferring deportation in expectation that those he is protecting will soon be provided a path to citizenship by Congress.

His Executive Orders have not, and would not, provide that path.

While I agree with your assessment - "deferring deportation" is in direct violation of Federal law. Laws that he has sworn to uphold yet refuses to do so. To be fair - Bush, Clinton and Bush did the same basic thing - again - in direct violation of law. Obama can NOT grant amnesty to anyone. ONLY the Congress can do that so what does he do? nibbles around the law much like Bill Clinton and his "definition of what is - is" Bullshit.

The Emperor has no right (under law) to refuse to obey the law in expectation of what "might" happen. The next time you are going 65 in a 55 speed zone - tell the cop that you did so in expectation of the law being changed. See how far that gets you.

 

[g5000]

While I agree with your assessment - "deferring deportation" is in direct violation of Federal law.

Unless you can quote the actual law provision he is violating, we really don't know that for a fact. I have explained many times in many topics that Congress writes the laws, but will usually just build the framework of the law and then leave it to the Executive to flesh it out with regulations.

Congress writes the laws. The Executive executes the laws, as it says in the name.

So before we can unequivocally claim Obama would be violating the law if he defers deportation, we need to take a look at the law to see if that is true. We need to see how much regulatory latitude Congress gave to the Executive with respect to immigration.

No one in the media, nor any politician, who claims Obama would be breaking the law has ever cited the law. You ever notice that?

 

[RandallFlagg]

While I agree with your assessment - "deferring deportation" is in direct violation of Federal law.

Unless you can quote the actual law provision he is violating, we really don't know that for a fact. I have explained many times in many topics that Congress writes the laws, but will usually just build the framework of the law and then leave it to the Executive to flesh it out with regulations.

Congress writes the laws. The Executive executes the laws, as it says in the name.

So before we can unequivocally claim Obama would be violating the law if he defers deportation, we need to take a look at the law to see if that is true. We need to see how much regulatory latitude Congress gave to the Executive with respect to immigration.

No one in the media, nor any politician, who claims Obama would be breaking the law has ever cited the law. You ever notice that?

I haven't said that he is violating ANY law - YET. Failure to enforce laws as written is not a "choice" of a president (or an Emperor). He is tasked by his oath - to support and defend the Constitution. By "deferring enforcement" he is violating his oath of office.

Again, either we are a "nation of laws" or we aren't. This Emperor is not above the law- yet. We will see tomorrow, how far he is intending to "stretch" his reach. Lawlessness is lawlessness - no matter WHO does it.

 

[Clementine]

Pres. Dwight Eisenhower:
1956
By executive order, circumvented immigration quotas to allow 900 orphans to join their adoptive families in the U.S.
1956-1958
By executive order, allowed 31,000 Hungarian anti-Soviet insurgents to emigrate.
1959-72
By executive order, allowed 600,000 Cubans fleeing Castro to emigrate. [PDF]
Pres. Gerald Ford:
1975
By executive order, allowed 360,000 refugees, mostly from from Vietnam, to emigrate.
1976
By executive order, allowed 14,000 Lebanese nationals to emigrate.
Pres. Ronald Reagan:
1981
By executive order, allowed 7,000 Polish anti-Communists to emigrate.
1982
Allowed 15,000-plus Ethiopians to emigrate.
1987
By executive order, rescinded deportation of 200,000 Nicaraguans.
1987
By executive order, deferred deportation of undocumented children of 100,000 families. [JSTOR]
George H.W. Bush:
1989
By executive order, deferred deportations of Chinese students.
1989
By executive order, reversed visa denials of 7,000 Soviets, Indochinese.
1990
By executive order, deferred deporations of previously amnestied citizens’ 1.5 million spouses and children.
1991
By executive order, deferred deportation of 2,000 Gulf War evacuees.
1992
By executive order, deferred deportations of 190,000 El Salvadorans.
George W. Bush:
2002
By executive order, expedited naturalization for green-card holders who joined military.
2005
By executive order, deferred deportation of students affected by Hurricane Katrina.
2006
By executive order, enabled 1,500 Cuban physicians to seek asylum at US embassies.
2007
By executive order, deferred deportation of 3,600 Liberians.

Which of those defied congress and the people? Looks like a lot of deferring deportation for war refugees, victims of hurricane Katrina and expedited naturalization for some. The current president is doing this against congress and the people. Most of the things done on your list were things that congress agreed with and the orders were issued to speed things up.

 

[g5000]

Which of those defied congress and the people?

Defying Congress is not actionable. You have to show a violation of law. There is a difference.

If it was legal for one President to defer deportation, you have to show what changed in the law which made deferring deportation illegal for this President to do.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Pres. Dwight Eisenhower:
1956
By executive order, circumvented immigration quotas to allow 900 orphans to join their adoptive families in the U.S.
1956-1958
By executive order, allowed 31,000 Hungarian anti-Soviet insurgents to emigrate.
1959-72
By executive order, allowed 600,000 Cubans fleeing Castro to emigrate. [PDF]
Pres. Gerald Ford:
1975
By executive order, allowed 360,000 refugees, mostly from from Vietnam, to emigrate.
1976
By executive order, allowed 14,000 Lebanese nationals to emigrate.
Pres. Ronald Reagan:
1981
By executive order, allowed 7,000 Polish anti-Communists to emigrate.
1982
Allowed 15,000-plus Ethiopians to emigrate.
1987
By executive order, rescinded deportation of 200,000 Nicaraguans.
1987
By executive order, deferred deportation of undocumented children of 100,000 families. [JSTOR]
George H.W. Bush:
1989
By executive order, deferred deportations of Chinese students.
1989
By executive order, reversed visa denials of 7,000 Soviets, Indochinese.
1990
By executive order, deferred deporations of previously amnestied citizens’ 1.5 million spouses and children.
1991
By executive order, deferred deportation of 2,000 Gulf War evacuees.
1992
By executive order, deferred deportations of 190,000 El Salvadorans.
George W. Bush:
2002
By executive order, expedited naturalization for green-card holders who joined military.
2005
By executive order, deferred deportation of students affected by Hurricane Katrina.
2006
By executive order, enabled 1,500 Cuban physicians to seek asylum at US embassies.
2007
By executive order, deferred deportation of 3,600 Liberians.

Which of those defied congress and the people? Looks like a lot of deferring deportation for war refugees, victims of hurricane Katrina and expedited naturalization for some. The current president is doing this against congress and the people. Most of the things done on your list were things that congress agreed with and the orders were issued to speed things up.

Indeed. Political Asylum is not "immigration". It is an emergency response in place to protect people who have fled their native countries due to political oppression. CONGRESS set forth those stipulations in the immigration laws now on the books.

 

[Vigilante]

Democrats and Drive-Bys Distort Reagan to Validate Obama's Executive Order on Amnesty
November 19, 2014

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: You know, I've always been of the impression, ladies and gentlemen, that the Democrat Party and the Drive-By Media and the American left really didn't like Ronald Reagan very much. I've always been under the impression that they thought Reagan was stupid. Maybe on a good day they'd call him an amiable dunce. But I've always been under the impression they had no respect for him. People that voted for Reagan were stupid. Reagan was dangerous. Reagan was gonna blow up the world. If it weren't for Gorbachev, who knows if there would even be a planet Earth today.
And yet it seems like whenever the Democrat Party needs to validate something that it plans to do, they always cite Ronald Reagan. They cite Ronald Reagan sometimes when they're gonna do something on economics. They cite Ronald Reagan -- I don't have all the times in front of me. I can't list them. But you know as well as I do that they frequently go back and cite Ronald Reagan.

Now, it may not be that they're doing so out of respect for Reagan. But it certainly is true to say that they are citing Reagan to validate what they're doing, and particularly when it comes to Obama's upcoming amnesty that looks like it's gonna be announced on Friday from Las Vegas.
Greetings, my friends. Rush Limbaugh, the EIB Network. Happy to have you here. Telephone number, if you want to be on the program is 800-282-2882. And we check the e-mail, so if you want to send an e-mail, it's [email protected].
It's just uncanny how often the Democrat Party, when they get in jam and when they know they're doing something that is untoward, when they know they're doing something that's not aboveboard, like this clearly is not aboveboard, they go back and they cite Reagan. "Well, Reagan did it."
It's not just to persuade conservatives. That's not why they're doing it. They know that Reagan actually has credibility with people. That's the dirty little secret. They know that Ronald Reagan was beloved and adored, and they know that, despite their best efforts, the American people have profound respect for Ronald Reagan.
Notice they don't cite Bill Clinton. They don't go back and they don't cite FDR. They don't go back and cite Truman very often. They always cite, they always go back to Ronaldus Magnus, and they are doing that to justify what Obama's going to do here with his executive order that will grant amnesty to five million illegal aliens. And they're out there claiming Reagan did this?
Reagan never did this.

Of course the AP and the Drive-By Media are falling right in line, writing stories that the White House is dictating, claiming, "Well, this is no big deal. Reagan did it. Bush did it. What are you crying about?" Well, if Reagan did it, how come we're only hearing about it on the eve of Obama doing it? If Reagan did this, then why did Obama once say he didn't have the power to do this? Remember that sound bite to some Spanish language TV network where he said he was not an emperor, or not a dictator? (imitating Obama) "We are a nation of laws. We have our law, and I unfortunately just can't do it with the stroke of my pen." Remember that?
Well, why didn't he say, "Wait a minute, yes, I can. I can be a dictator 'cause Ronald Reagan was, everybody knows." Why didn't he cite Reagan back then? Why didn't he cite Reagan last week, last year? Why let this controversy gin up? If Reagan did it why not say it at the outset and then shut up everybody.
Let's go to the audio sound bites. You'll see what I'm talking about here. Last night and this morning we have a little montage of how the left all of a sudden is once again in love with Ronaldus Magnus.
BECKEL: Ronald Reagan did exactly the same thing.
BEGALA: Presidents Reagan and Bush issued executive orders on immigration.
REID: Every president, 39 different times, Reagan, Bush.
KOSINSKI: Reagan allowed legalization for three million immigrants.
O'REILLY: President Reagan also took executive action allowing some illegals to stay in this country.
CUELLAR: A very eerie way when President Reagan was the president, he then took the executive order.
CATANESE: Pointing out to actions by two former Republican presidents, presidents Reagan and President George H. W. Bush.
RUSH: Okay. So you want to know who was in there? You want to hear the names? I think you should. The first up was Bob Beckel, and then The Forehead, Paul Begala, and then Dingy Harry, and then Michelle Kosinski, whoever that is, and then O'Reilly. O'Reilly said President Reagan also took executive action allowing some illegals to stay. He did not. Reagan never took executive action. This is a bald-faced flat-out lie. Not that it's gonna matter to anybody. But you know us here; we're concerned with the truth. Henry Cuellar, David Catanese. Those are the people in the sound bite that you just heard.
So if you're thinking, "Well, Rush, you're being so bold about this. What do you mean, Reagan didn't do it?" Well, there are a lot of people that are still alive who were in the Reagan administration, one of them was a man by the name of Jeff Lord, and Jeffrey writes for the American Spectator. He writes for Conservative Review, and he also occasionally puts together some pieces for our buddies at NewsBusters,

Brent Bozell. And he has a piece posted at Conservative Review entitled, "Ronald Reagan and Immigration: The AP Distortion."
Jeffrey worked in the Reagan administration. Now, his piece prints out to four pages, but I don't need that. What is the difference between Reagan and Obama? Reagan -- in fact, folks, I'm almost speechless here as I prepare to explain to you just how big the left is distorting this. Ronald Reagan signed a piece of legislation. It was the Simpson-Mazzoli Act. It was 1986. Congress debated and passed a law to grant amnesty to three million illegal immigrants, and Reagan signed it. They are saying that's exactly what Obama's gonna do. They are claiming that Reagan signing legislation, thereby making it legal, is the same thing as an Obama executive order. It breathtaking what they're trying to say here.
Reagan had a statute behind him. The statute was called Simpson-Mazzoli. The very law that Reagan had signed was signed after it was passed by Congress. What Obama is about to do is write a law, or rewrite a statue all by himself. You think that Gruber was exaggerating? They do think you're stupid. They really do believe that you are stupid. They really believe that they can make you think that Reagan signing a piece of legislation is identical to Obama writing and signing an executive order. "Well, Reagan did it. Well, technically Reagan granted amnesty, why are you complaining? Reagan granted amnesty, and George H. W. Bush, he granted amnesty, so Obama's not doing anything different."
Well, it's totally different because there is no legislation. The president cannot write law. The president can't make it up. Whether Congress is a bulwark or not. The Constitution does not say, "In case the Congress refuses to cooperate with the president, the president may, in that case, create his own law." It doesn't say that. And Obama knows it doesn't say that because he'd been out there on TV in previous years telling angry Hispanics that he's not a dictator -- ahem -- that he's not an emperor -- ahem -- and he can't do it. And that's been his excuse all along. He doesn't have the power to do it.
Now all of a sudden he does. And along comes the dictate from the White House to inform the media, "Hey, it's no different than what Reagan did." So there are two things here. The blatant lie in equating an executive order with signing legislation, and then having to cite Reagan to validate something a Marxist -- ahem -- a Democrat president is doing. It's just fascinating to watch all this. When he suspends deportations and when he imposes his own conditions on those suspensions, he's rewriting the law.
And that's what Obama is doing. And that violates his oath to enforce and uphold the law as it's written. The American people, the Congress, and the courts need to know that we have a president that will enforce the law. And when he says, "I will not enforce the law because I don't like it or because I'm impatient," that doesn't wash under the Constitution.
Now, there's some other things. Judge Napolitano is cited in this story by Jeff Lord in this fashion: "The judge goes on to say quite pointedly and specifically what is the Reagan-Obama difference. Every president since Eisenhower has suspended some deportations. President Reagan did it to 100,000 families. He did it on the basis of the 1986 statute enacted by the Congress. President H. W. Bush did it for 1.5 million people.
"Only about 350,000 took advantage of it, and it was based on his interpretation of the statute. President Obama does not reinterpret a statute here. He takes a statute and says, 'I'm gonna disregard it. I don't like it. It doesn't do what I want it to do. So I'm gonna give you a better one. I'm gonna set down a set of standards that I'd have written had I been the lawmakers.' But he's not the lawmaker. He's the law enforcer."
So Reagan and previous presidents when they suspended some deportations, did so under the guidelines of a statute that was in existence. They were not creating law. They were not adding to it. They were not subtracting from it. They were using it. Obama is doing nothing of the sort. It's just -- I don't know -- fascinating here to watch the effort (and it's pedal to the metal) underway here to try to equate Obama with Ronald Reagan.
I don't know. A little side issue or aspect of this is it really offends me greatly to see them tarnish Reagan this way, because that's what this is. Barack Obama is no Ronald Reagan in his dreams, and the idea that he is Ronald Reagan and is doing nothing different than Reagan did is as offensive as it can be to me. Because it's distorting Reagan. It is impugning Reagan.

And, of course, Obama doesn't have the respect and admiration from enough people to be able to get by with this on his own. If Obama were respected -- if he had a decent amount of respect, if it was thought that he had integrity, if Obama was indeed the charismatic/messianic figure people thought they had elected -- they wouldn't care why he was doing this. They would trust him.
They would accept what he's saying, 'cause they believed him, because he has integrity and honesty, the president doing the best in the world for the country, people would think that, but he doesn't own that because people do not think that of him. They don't think he's out for the best for the country. They don't think he's got honesty. They don't think so.
His approval number's down to 37% now, by the way. Have you seen that? Of course you haven't. Why am I asking? Of course you haven't! It's just out today, that Obama's approval is down to 37%. So he cannot do this on his own. He doesn't have the weight; he doesn't have the gravitas. He does not have the character to pull this off on his own.
He doesn't have the ability to say, "I'm gonna do this. It's legal. I'm President Obama. We're gonna do this because it's good for the country," and have everybody support it because they believe him. Because they don't support him, and they don't believe him. So he has to cite, for his own gravitas and credibility, Ronald Reagan -- and, in the process, distort, impugn and malign Reagan in order to stand on the same stage with him.
END TRANSCRIPT

Democrats and Drive-Bys Distort Reagan to Validate Obama s Executive Order on Amnesty - The Rush Limbaugh Show

 

[Syriusly]

They did not go against the people or congress. Their decisions supported legislation that had already passed. Big difference between that and a president who ignores congress and the people and does what he wants.

Sorry, liberals: Reagan and Bush 41 did not defy Congress with executive amnesty
http://www.caintv.com/sorry-liberals-reagan-and-bush

Indeed. Mazzoli/Simpson Law of 1986. Reagan added a couple of small things to the law - he did NOT attempt to change the law. He did nothing even remotely controversial .

So its 'constitutional' if it is not controversial....but not constitutional if it is controversial.......interesting........

 

[Syriusly]

Democrats and Drive-Bys Distort Reagan to Validate Obama's Executive Order on Amnesty
November 19, 2014

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH:

Really no need to read any further than that.

 

[Vigilante]

Democrats and Drive-Bys Distort Reagan to Validate Obama's Executive Order on Amnesty
November 19, 2014

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH:

Of course not, an ignorant slut, such as yourself prefers to remain ignorant!
Really no need to read any further than that.

 

[boilermaker55]

The reports are that under this administration, more immigrants have been deported than under the previous one.

 

[boilermaker55]

What those of us outside the circle do not understand that this is "god" ronnie they are talking about.

 

[Vigilante]

The reports are that under this administration, more immigrants have been deported than under the previous one.

Perhaps you haven't heard... this administration counts as DEPORTED all illegals that were stopped at the border and sent back immediately..... some 500,000+!

The REGIME has it's own definition of what DEPORTED means... anything that makes it LOOK like they are doing something!