Stop trying to divide "Jews" from "Zionists."

[toastman]

No, I'm explictly rejecting your premise. It's nonsense.

It's nothing more than a way to attack anyone who doesn't agree with the state of Israel as "anti-Semitic".

Really? That's what I said?

Wow.

So when I disagreed with the State of Israel's decision to apologize to Turkey for the flotilla incident, I guess that means I was being an anti-Semite.

Who knew?

I think you should swim back to the shallow end of the pool. You're drowning here.

Pay attention and don't play dumb. Disagreeing with Israeli policies isn't anti Zionism, just as disagreeing with American policies isn't anti Americanism. Anti Zionism by definition means you disagree with the right of Israel to exist. And vast majority of those that think like that, are anti Semites, no surprise.

Damn, you took the words right out of mouth !

 

[sealadaigh]

Pay attention and don't play dumb. Disagreeing with Israeli policies isn't anti Zionism, just as disagreeing with American policies isn't anti Americanism. Anti Zionism by definition means you disagree with the right of Israel to exist. And vast majority of those that think like that, are anti Semites, no surprise.

again, please describe in general terms applicable to all peoples the rules justifying the state of israel...like "people with a religious belief have a right to arbitrarily pick a point in time where they once lived and then displace the native population, many of whom have families that have lived there for centuries."

besides, you all are squimin'. you are moving the meanoing of what you claimed anti-zionism was a few years ago, i.e. being against israeli policy, to being against israel. hardly anyone is fooled by these deceptions anymore.

Here's the problem, Pinniped...

I've been here for only a short while, but I've already noticed your pattern. You like to take things that people post, repackage them as something else, and then ask people to respond to the "strawman" you've created.

I have one word to describe your method of discourse: tiresome.

If you want to comment on something I've posted, please do so. If you simply want to play the strawman game and regurgitate your talking points, I'm not interested.

yes, i have a tendency to repackage things so that they apply to all people instead of the bigoted method you employ saying something is right for one group but not another.

i don't believe in israel because i do not believe in colonial enterprise and that applies to all peoples. the world realised that ater WWI or thereabouts acolonial empires began to shrink their grasps on thee native peoples.

israel is an exception. you want me to treat you special and blow kisses at you because you are jewish. ain't gonna happen. you want me to accept israel, give me a general rule based upon its founding and existence that applies to all peoples or yoiu atre a bigot.

you can't...and no one has.

 

[sealadaigh]

Really? That's what I said?

Wow.

So when I disagreed with the State of Israel's decision to apologize to Turkey for the flotilla incident, I guess that means I was being an anti-Semite.

Who knew?

I think you should swim back to the shallow end of the pool. You're drowning here.

Pay attention and don't play dumb. Disagreeing with Israeli policies isn't anti Zionism, just as disagreeing with American policies isn't anti Americanism. Anti Zionism by definition means you disagree with the right of Israel to exist. And vast majority of those that think like that, are anti Semites, no surprise.

Damn, you took the words right out of mouth !

if i were an anti-semite, i would love for israel to exist.

 

[sealadaigh]

If that's what you think I said then I'll be happy to refer you to a remedial English class, because clearly you don't comprehend the words you read.

i comprehend very well thank you. you are just getting your hat handed to you. you are saying zionists are jews and jews are zionists. then you are saying anti-zionists are anti-jews, or anti-semites. i think you can be against the political beliefs of a group regardless of the ethnicity or religion of that group.

don't play word games with me.

Yawn.

Wake me up when you have some new material.

you're new here. figure out how to use the ignore button.

your insult only as argument really doesn't hold up well. it generally means the person doing the insulting lacks an answer.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

you're new here. figure out how to use the ignore button.

Considering that I started this thread, it would seem that you should be the one using the ignore button if you don't like my words.

your insult only as argument really doesn't hold up well. it generally means the person doing the insulting lacks an answer.

You don't get it, do you? Your attempts to bait me are exceedingly transparent and they're not going to work.

As I said before:

Respond to what I wrote = discussion.
Respond with your "strawman" talking points = end of the discussion.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

I don't believe most Jews are Zionists...at least not supportive of the real goal of zionism.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

I don't believe most Jews are Zionists...at least not supportive of the real goal of zionism.

Okay... I'll bite...

What do you believe the "real goal of Zionism" is?

 

[Truthseeker420]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

I don't believe most Jews are Zionists...at least not supportive of the real goal of zionism.

Okay... I'll bite...

What do you believe the "real goal of Zionism" is?

I believe Zionism is just a tool of transnational corporations and the war machine to control the Jews.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I don't believe most Jews are Zionists...at least not supportive of the real goal of zionism.

Okay... I'll bite...

What do you believe the "real goal of Zionism" is?

I believe Zionism is just a tool of transnational corporations and the war machine to control the Jews.

Okay, then...

 

[Truthseeker420]

Okay... I'll bite...

What do you believe the "real goal of Zionism" is?

I believe Zionism is just a tool of transnational corporations and the war machine to control the Jews.

Okay, then...

Maybe a little... but what's that got to do with the truth?

 

[toastman]

I don't believe most Jews are Zionists...at least not supportive of the real goal of zionism.

Okay... I'll bite...

What do you believe the "real goal of Zionism" is?

I believe Zionism is just a tool of transnational corporations and the war machine to control the Jews.

Cool conspiracy theory bro

 

[sealadaigh]

you're new here. figure out how to use the ignore button.

Considering that I started this thread, it would seem that you should be the one using the ignore button if you don't like my words.

your insult only as argument really doesn't hold up well. it generally means the person doing the insulting lacks an answer.

You don't get it, do you? Your attempts to bait me are exceedingly transparent and they're not going to work.

As I said before:

Respond to what I wrote = discussion.
Respond with your "strawman" talking points = end of the discussion.

i really don't want to discuss anything with you or listen to you whine about "baiting".

use the ignore button. i will have my say.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

use the ignore button.

No.

But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Roudy]

Really? That's what I said?

Wow.

So when I disagreed with the State of Israel's decision to apologize to Turkey for the flotilla incident, I guess that means I was being an anti-Semite.

Who knew?

I think you should swim back to the shallow end of the pool. You're drowning here.

Pay attention and don't play dumb. Disagreeing with Israeli policies isn't anti Zionism, just as disagreeing with American policies isn't anti Americanism. Anti Zionism by definition means you disagree with the right of Israel to exist. And vast majority of those that think like that, are anti Semites, no surprise.

again, please describe in general terms applicable to all peoples the rules justifying the state of israel...like "people with a religious belief have a right to arbitrarily pick a point in time where they once lived and then displace the native population, many of whom have families that have lived there for centuries."

besides, you all are squimin'. you are moving the meanoing of what you claimed anti-zionism was a few years ago, i.e. being against israeli policy, to being against israel. hardly anyone is fooled by these deceptions anymore.

Anti Zionism is anti semitism. That's what I, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and many others have said, and you, without a doubt are an anti Semite.

 

[MHunterB]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

I don't believe most Jews are Zionists...at least not supportive of the real goal of zionism.

Your very choice of language - ie. 'the real goal of Zionism' - trumpets 'conspiracy theory'. I'm certain the OP entertains no such notions as that. There's already an entire forum available to you for those discussions...... start a thread there.

 

[pbel]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

There are some of us often referred to as Libertarians who could care less what happens in the ME where America has very little strategic interests except keeping the oil flowing towards Europe with American blood and our bondage AIPAC dominated Congress and Presidency...

Democracy is dead and Oligarchy Rules.

 

[MHunterB]

"There are some of us often referred to as Libertarians who could care less what happens in the ME where America has very little strategic interests except keeping the oil flowing towards Europe with American blood and our bondage AIPAC dominated Congress and Presidency...

Democracy is dead and Oligarchy Rules. "

Does 'Libertarian' actually include believing the malignant canards about 'Jewish conspiracies' dating from the 19th Century - or is that simply 'according to Phil'?

 

[pbel]

Read the numbers and Statistics of the money flow to Congress in aggregate from AIPAC...It has nothing to do with Jews, .it's about who Governs?...And for whose benefit?

 

[Roudy]

you're new here. figure out how to use the ignore button.

Considering that I started this thread, it would seem that you should be the one using the ignore button if you don't like my words.

your insult only as argument really doesn't hold up well. it generally means the person doing the insulting lacks an answer.

You don't get it, do you? Your attempts to bait me are exceedingly transparent and they're not going to work.

As I said before:

Respond to what I wrote = discussion.
Respond with your "strawman" talking points = end of the discussion.

 

[Roudy]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

I don't believe most Jews are Zionists...at least not supportive of the real goal of zionism.

That means you're totally ignorant of history, religion, and culture. It also means you haven't been around a lot of Jews.