Strict state gun laws and suicide

[PaintMyHouse]

People without firearms around rarely shoot themselves. That bit of common sense isn't going to go away no matter how hard you try, or how much you love your deadly toys.

People without firearms around rarely shoot themselves

People without cars rarely drive drunk.

People that live in basements rarely hurt themselves jumping out their living room window.

Go figure.

Right?

Thanks for making my point, change the conditions and people are more likely to survive, even from themselves...

Why?

Because they didn't use a gun?

That's correct. Cut down on the guns and you cut down on the suicides by guns. It's not complicated, you just don't like it.

Cut down on the guns and you cut down on the suicides by guns.

and increase suicides by other methods.

little if any change.

I'll take little if any. You're not very Pro-Life if you won't eh?

 

[2aguy]

People without cars rarely drive drunk.

People that live in basements rarely hurt themselves jumping out their living room window.

Go figure.

Right?

Thanks for making my point, change the conditions and people are more likely to survive, even from themselves...

Why?

Because they didn't use a gun?

That's correct. Cut down on the guns and you cut down on the suicides by guns. It's not complicated, you just don't like it.

Wow....and then they hang themselves......not solving the problem is it?

That takes more work, so it's less likely to happen. A ten dollar rope versus a four hundred dollar handgun and people use the gun? See the problem?

That you will simply make them use the cheaper method....hmmm...do you sell rope for a living?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

While it is the most prevalent method, it is far from the only method.

and if someone is willing to put a gun to their head, they are willing to use other methods if a gun is not available.

The gun is a tool, and only a tool.

But, it isn't the ONLY tool.

The only people that need to protect themselves from me are the ones trying to get into my house at the wrong time of day, (or night).

And notice they don't mention that 19,000 other people also commit suicide in this country and they don't use guns to do it.....

But I guess it is too much for a lefty to think that if they banned guns, that the people who would use a gun would simply use what the other 19,000 people use to kill themselves.......

Just like all gun violence we'd like to stop nearly all suicides. Since handguns are the #1 tool that's where we start. A bang for our buck, pun intended.

Actually, 19,000 people in this country commit suicide in this country without guns. So.....if 23,000 use guns...they will simply do what the other 19,000 did....

And rope is the most popular method of suicide around the world.

Nothing is perfect, and I never said is was the solution to all suicide. It's a damn good thing for it isn't because if it was you wouldn't get to play with your deadly toys...

I don't play with them and they aren't toys.

In America they are, and I have the videos and accidental deaths to prove it.

 

[2aguy]

this is stupid. Guns have nothing to do with the suicide rate. Japan, South Korea, and China have absolute gun control and 2 times or more the suicide rate as we do. The suicide rates have more to do with other factors, mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse and other issues…..nice try.

How do you explain the results?

I don't know...but considering that Japan, South Korea and China all have absolute gun control and Hungary and Poland for that matter have stricter gun laws than we do......and they all have higher suicide rates than we do...

Guns are not the issue...

And tell me......how does taking an 8 hour class, sometimes maybe years before committing suicide, keep someone from comitting suicide? Explain that......

You have some good points, but interesting study. we don't know how bad those countries would be if they had guns.

We know how bad they are without guns....2 times as bad as we are...and almost half of our suicides are still done without guns....19,000.

And we know how Missouri was with laws and without.

Sorry, that was debunked too....

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Thanks for making my point, change the conditions and people are more likely to survive, even from themselves...

Why?

Because they didn't use a gun?

That's correct. Cut down on the guns and you cut down on the suicides by guns. It's not complicated, you just don't like it.

Wow....and then they hang themselves......not solving the problem is it?

That takes more work, so it's less likely to happen. A ten dollar rope versus a four hundred dollar handgun and people use the gun? See the problem?

That you will simply make them use the cheaper method....hmmm...do you sell rope for a living?

But they don't use the rope as much. See the problem now?

 

[Brain357]

Yep, based on the numbers. It's a math thing, you wouldn't get it since to you guns are for protection, which is why you don't want your enemies to have them. They might protect themselves, from you...

While it is the most prevalent method, it is far from the only method.

and if someone is willing to put a gun to their head, they are willing to use other methods if a gun is not available.

The gun is a tool, and only a tool.

But, it isn't the ONLY tool.

It's too easy a tool, hence the problem...

And the Japanese, South Korean, Chinese, Hungarians and Poles don't have access to that tool.......and commit suicide at 2 times the rate we do.......

In Japan, for example, that is an honored tradition. And I'm not in Japan nor am I concerned in this case how they kill themselves. I'm here, in America, and trying to fix American suicides.

If you want to stop suicides here...worry less about the tool, more about the cause......

That is sound advice. How do we get fee mental healthcare?

 

[Brain357]

How do you explain the results?

I don't know...but considering that Japan, South Korea and China all have absolute gun control and Hungary and Poland for that matter have stricter gun laws than we do......and they all have higher suicide rates than we do...

Guns are not the issue...

And tell me......how does taking an 8 hour class, sometimes maybe years before committing suicide, keep someone from comitting suicide? Explain that......

You have some good points, but interesting study. we don't know how bad those countries would be if they had guns.

We know how bad they are without guns....2 times as bad as we are...and almost half of our suicides are still done without guns....19,000.

And we know how Missouri was with laws and without.

Sorry, that was debunked too....

Explain? You said you couldn't explain it.

 

[2aguy]

this is stupid. Guns have nothing to do with the suicide rate. Japan, South Korea, and China have absolute gun control and 2 times or more the suicide rate as we do. The suicide rates have more to do with other factors, mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse and other issues…..nice try.

How do you explain the results?

I don't know...but considering that Japan, South Korea and China all have absolute gun control and Hungary and Poland for that matter have stricter gun laws than we do......and they all have higher suicide rates than we do...

Guns are not the issue...

And tell me......how does taking an 8 hour class, sometimes maybe years before committing suicide, keep someone from comitting suicide? Explain that......

You have some good points, but interesting study. we don't know how bad those countries would be if they had guns.

We know how bad they are without guns....2 times as bad as we are...and almost half of our suicides are still done without guns....19,000.

And we know how Missouri was with laws and without.

Here you go...

Opinion: Media cherry picks Missouri gun data to make misleading case for more control | Fox News

While it is true that the murder rate in Missouri rose 17 percent relative to the rest of the U.S. in the five years after 2007, it had actually increased by 32 percent during the previous five years. The question is why the Missouri murder rate was increasing relative to the rest of the United States at a slower rate after the change in the law than it did prior to it. Missouri was on an ominous path before the law was ended.

Simply looking at whether murder rates were higher after the law was rescinded than before misses much of what was going on. Most likely, getting rid of the law slowed the growth rate in murders.

But there are other reasons not to accept the conclusion touted by the press.

 There are currently 17 states with these background check laws, down from a peak of 19 states. Missouri is just one of them.
 If you are going to insist on looking at just one state, Missouri adopted the law in 1981 and rescinded it in 2007. Why not test if the murder rate fell after 1981 and whether it increased after 2007?
 Why only look at just the murder rate for this one state? Why not the overall violent crime or robbery rates?

The reason for this cherry picking is obvious. Only those conditions produced the desired results. For example, Missouri’s violent crime rate fell 7 percent faster than the violent crime rate for the rest of the United States from 2006 to 2012.




What does Missouri show about the benefits from universal background checks?: Nothing really, The forthcoming Journal of Urban Health study by the Bloomberg School of Public Health

The question the media should ask is: why pick one state when there are so many states with this law? Not only isn’t it the right way to do research, it is pretty obvious to anyone who has looked at the national data that Webster picked that one state to report because it was the one that gave him the result that he wanted. Do studies that collect data on every state take a little more time? Sure, but it isn’t that much more difficult and without it you can’t really determine anything.

 

[2aguy]

Why?

Because they didn't use a gun?

That's correct. Cut down on the guns and you cut down on the suicides by guns. It's not complicated, you just don't like it.

Wow....and then they hang themselves......not solving the problem is it?

That takes more work, so it's less likely to happen. A ten dollar rope versus a four hundred dollar handgun and people use the gun? See the problem?

That you will simply make them use the cheaper method....hmmm...do you sell rope for a living?

But they don't use the rope as much. See the problem now?

But take guns away and they will use the rope...see how pointless your point is?

 

[2aguy]

And to get some more facts out...causes of death....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39
Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Interesting results:

Researchers examined suicide rates in Connecticut and Missouri, two states that changed their permit-to-purchase handgun laws in recent decades. Connecticut passed a law in 1995 that requires people to apply for a permit with local law enforcement and take eight hours of gun safety training before they can buy a firearm. In 2007 in Missouri, the state repealed a 1921 law that required people to apply with the local police to buy a gun.

The rate of gun-related suicide in Connecticut in the 10 years after its law passed was 15% lower than what researchers predict it would have been had the law not been passed. The researchers made this prediction based on the suicide rate between 1995 and 2005 in Rhode Island and North Dakota, which have similar demographics as Connecticut, and which also had similar suicide rates as Connecticut in the years before its law (1981-1994).

In contrast, the gun-related suicide rate in Missouri was 16% higher from 2007 to 2011 than researchers predict it would have been based on the rates in the comparable states of North Carolina and Nebraska.

Strict state gun laws could cut suicides, study says - CNN.com

"Research" and "predicted" and contrary terms. Either the rate decreased or it didn't - 15% lower than what researches predict is would have been otherwise? What a fucking crock - was the rate lower? Well no, it went up.

This is complete bullshit - more fraud from the Anti-Liberty left.

 

[Brain357]

How do you explain the results?

I don't know...but considering that Japan, South Korea and China all have absolute gun control and Hungary and Poland for that matter have stricter gun laws than we do......and they all have higher suicide rates than we do...

Guns are not the issue...

And tell me......how does taking an 8 hour class, sometimes maybe years before committing suicide, keep someone from comitting suicide? Explain that......

You have some good points, but interesting study. we don't know how bad those countries would be if they had guns.

We know how bad they are without guns....2 times as bad as we are...and almost half of our suicides are still done without guns....19,000.

And we know how Missouri was with laws and without.

Here you go...

Opinion: Media cherry picks Missouri gun data to make misleading case for more control | Fox News

While it is true that the murder rate in Missouri rose 17 percent relative to the rest of the U.S. in the five years after 2007, it had actually increased by 32 percent during the previous five years. The question is why the Missouri murder rate was increasing relative to the rest of the United States at a slower rate after the change in the law than it did prior to it. Missouri was on an ominous path before the law was ended.

Simply looking at whether murder rates were higher after the law was rescinded than before misses much of what was going on. Most likely, getting rid of the law slowed the growth rate in murders.

But there are other reasons not to accept the conclusion touted by the press.

 There are currently 17 states with these background check laws, down from a peak of 19 states. Missouri is just one of them.
 If you are going to insist on looking at just one state, Missouri adopted the law in 1981 and rescinded it in 2007. Why not test if the murder rate fell after 1981 and whether it increased after 2007?
 Why only look at just the murder rate for this one state? Why not the overall violent crime or robbery rates?

The reason for this cherry picking is obvious. Only those conditions produced the desired results. For example, Missouri’s violent crime rate fell 7 percent faster than the violent crime rate for the rest of the United States from 2006 to 2012.




What does Missouri show about the benefits from universal background checks?: Nothing really, The forthcoming Journal of Urban Health study by the Bloomberg School of Public Health

The question the media should ask is: why pick one state when there are so many states with this law? Not only isn’t it the right way to do research, it is pretty obvious to anyone who has looked at the national data that Webster picked that one state to report because it was the one that gave him the result that he wanted. Do studies that collect data on every state take a little more time? Sure, but it isn’t that much more difficult and without it you can’t really determine anything.

That is murder we are talking suicide, though it could again be cherry picking.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

That's correct. Cut down on the guns and you cut down on the suicides by guns. It's not complicated, you just don't like it.

Wow....and then they hang themselves......not solving the problem is it?

That takes more work, so it's less likely to happen. A ten dollar rope versus a four hundred dollar handgun and people use the gun? See the problem?

That you will simply make them use the cheaper method....hmmm...do you sell rope for a living?

But they don't use the rope as much. See the problem now?

But take guns away and they will use the rope...see how pointless your point is?

They will use rope at lower rates. That point isn't up for debate.

 

[Brain357]

And to get some more facts out...causes of death....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39
Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....

Seems completely off topic.

 

[2aguy]

So...in 2013...

Suicide by gun ..... 21,175

Suicide by other means.... 19,974

Yeah....get rid of the guns and the 21,175 will find other means........

 

[Brain357]

Interesting results:

Researchers examined suicide rates in Connecticut and Missouri, two states that changed their permit-to-purchase handgun laws in recent decades. Connecticut passed a law in 1995 that requires people to apply for a permit with local law enforcement and take eight hours of gun safety training before they can buy a firearm. In 2007 in Missouri, the state repealed a 1921 law that required people to apply with the local police to buy a gun.

The rate of gun-related suicide in Connecticut in the 10 years after its law passed was 15% lower than what researchers predict it would have been had the law not been passed. The researchers made this prediction based on the suicide rate between 1995 and 2005 in Rhode Island and North Dakota, which have similar demographics as Connecticut, and which also had similar suicide rates as Connecticut in the years before its law (1981-1994).

In contrast, the gun-related suicide rate in Missouri was 16% higher from 2007 to 2011 than researchers predict it would have been based on the rates in the comparable states of North Carolina and Nebraska.

Strict state gun laws could cut suicides, study says - CNN.com

"Research" and "predicted" and contrary terms. Either the rate decreased or it didn't - 15% lower than what researches predict is would have been otherwise? What a fucking crock - was the rate lower? Well no, it went up.

This is complete bullshit - more fraud from the Anti-Liberty left.

I thought the predicted wording sounded strange also.

 

[2aguy]

Wow....and then they hang themselves......not solving the problem is it?

That takes more work, so it's less likely to happen. A ten dollar rope versus a four hundred dollar handgun and people use the gun? See the problem?

That you will simply make them use the cheaper method....hmmm...do you sell rope for a living?

But they don't use the rope as much. See the problem now?

But take guns away and they will use the rope...see how pointless your point is?

They will use rope at lower rates. That point isn't up for debate.

Yes it is since the Japanese, South Koreans, Chinese, Hungarians, and Poles commit suicide at greater rates than we do and have stricter, and in the first three countries absolute, gun control laws......

 

[2aguy]

And to get some more facts out...causes of death....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39
Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....

Seems completely off topic.

I needed to post it to get to the CDC table 10............for the suicide rates...

 

[2aguy]

Interesting results:

Researchers examined suicide rates in Connecticut and Missouri, two states that changed their permit-to-purchase handgun laws in recent decades. Connecticut passed a law in 1995 that requires people to apply for a permit with local law enforcement and take eight hours of gun safety training before they can buy a firearm. In 2007 in Missouri, the state repealed a 1921 law that required people to apply with the local police to buy a gun.

The rate of gun-related suicide in Connecticut in the 10 years after its law passed was 15% lower than what researchers predict it would have been had the law not been passed. The researchers made this prediction based on the suicide rate between 1995 and 2005 in Rhode Island and North Dakota, which have similar demographics as Connecticut, and which also had similar suicide rates as Connecticut in the years before its law (1981-1994).

In contrast, the gun-related suicide rate in Missouri was 16% higher from 2007 to 2011 than researchers predict it would have been based on the rates in the comparable states of North Carolina and Nebraska.

Strict state gun laws could cut suicides, study says - CNN.com

"Research" and "predicted" and contrary terms. Either the rate decreased or it didn't - 15% lower than what researches predict is would have been otherwise? What a fucking crock - was the rate lower? Well no, it went up.

This is complete bullshit - more fraud from the Anti-Liberty left.

Thanks....again we learn the lesson...the left cannot tell the truth, no matter what the issue, they will lie simply because they can......and will lie with intent when it comes to banning guns and other liberties.....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Interesting results:

Researchers examined suicide rates in Connecticut and Missouri, two states that changed their permit-to-purchase handgun laws in recent decades. Connecticut passed a law in 1995 that requires people to apply for a permit with local law enforcement and take eight hours of gun safety training before they can buy a firearm. In 2007 in Missouri, the state repealed a 1921 law that required people to apply with the local police to buy a gun.

The rate of gun-related suicide in Connecticut in the 10 years after its law passed was 15% lower than what researchers predict it would have been had the law not been passed. The researchers made this prediction based on the suicide rate between 1995 and 2005 in Rhode Island and North Dakota, which have similar demographics as Connecticut, and which also had similar suicide rates as Connecticut in the years before its law (1981-1994).

In contrast, the gun-related suicide rate in Missouri was 16% higher from 2007 to 2011 than researchers predict it would have been based on the rates in the comparable states of North Carolina and Nebraska.

Strict state gun laws could cut suicides, study says - CNN.com

Handguns are suicide machines. 20,000 deaths a year.

Handguns are suicide machines. 20,000 deaths a year.

Yup, they're insidious.

They just lay there, staring at you thru their sights, whispering to you, daring you to put their barrel in your mouth, to put them up to your ear, so you can hear the bullet coming thru the barrel.

suicide machines....

Yep, based on the numbers. It's a math thing, you wouldn't get it since to you guns are for protection, which is why you don't want your enemies to have them. They might protect themselves, from you...

20000 you say? Out of 300000000 Wow and what is the rate again?