Supreme Court. Individual mandate

[L.K.Eder]

con-s-tit-utionalist

watchd ogs, even.


oh , my.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It's not required by law. Unless we can stop idiots like you, it will be.

yes, everyone now pays for those who don't .. always have

The most important right a consumer has in a free market is the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that they don't think is worth the money. Stripping that right from consumers makes us utterly powerless in the marketplace.

If what you want is to remove health care from the free market, than have the integrity to do it above board. Forcing us all into involuntary servitude to the insurance industry is not a 'step in the right direction'. It's a sickening sellout and everyone supporting it is culpable.

"The most important right a consumer has in a free market..." how are rights enforced? regulation?

"If what you want is to remove health care from the free market..." never said that, I would if I could take profit out of health insurance. Switzerland model:

Interviews - Pascal Couchepin | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[dblack]

"The most important right a consumer has in a free market..." how are rights enforced? regulation?

Depends on the regulation, and more generally on what you mean by "regulation". The term is often applied to laws that have nothing all to do with protecting our rights. So, I guess "sometimes" is the answer to your question.

The most immediate way the government protects our rights is by not stripping them from us by force, which is what the ACA does. The Court, in theory, protects from these abuses - but it has largely ceased to function in that role.

"If what you want is to remove health care from the free market..." never said that

Then you are defending a law that maintains health care and the health insurance as for-profit, "free" market commodities, but strips consumers us of the freedom to decide how we participate in that market. That's great for the insurance companies, but for those of us not interested in being herded into their pens, it's a gross violation.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

yes, everyone now pays for those who don't .. always have

The most important right a consumer has in a free market is the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that they don't think is worth the money. Stripping that right from consumers makes us utterly powerless in the marketplace.

If what you want is to remove health care from the free market, than have the integrity to do it above board. Forcing us all into involuntary servitude to the insurance industry is not a 'step in the right direction'. It's a sickening sellout and everyone supporting it is culpable.

"The most important right a consumer has in a free market..." how are rights enforced? regulation?

"If what you want is to remove health care from the free market..." never said that, I would if I could take profit out of health insurance. Switzerland model:

Interviews - Pascal Couchepin | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

no profit...no free market...no choice for the patient...

solidarity......a catchword of socialism...."equal" does not always mean equal treatment....

When you say solidarity, you mean equal treatment for everybody?

Equal [insurance] premium, ... and that everybody can be insured.

who has the power with socialized medicine....certainly not the patient....

Who has the power? The small group of the people who leads these companies. And it is something for me which can be dangerous, because it is a business with a billion of Swiss francs, and the check and balance is not optimal in the present system. ...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are not a rule maker of any sort, son.

Is the fact that Roberts essentially rewrote Obamacare, and declared that the mandate is simultaneously not a tax, yet still is, too complicated for you? Are you aware that he actually trashed precedent to accomplish this feat of legerdemain because, up until yesterday, SCOTUS had consistently ruled that anything Congress said is a penalty is not a tax? Do you even have a brain?

In other words, you don't have a clue.

Try that in any ABA law school in America and you will be sent home.

I see you still declare victory by not answering challenges.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are not a rule maker of any sort.

Do you even know what judicial activism is? Really?

Go ahead, define judicial activism in a way that excludes rewriting laws from the bench and creating taxes in complete violation of the Constitution.

Only cretins believe that American jurisprudence ends with the first ten Amendments.

Exactly where did I mention the Bill of Rights?

 

[JakeStarkey]

All of your challenges have always been answered correctly and properly.

That you, along with comrades such as bigrebnc, refuse to accept reality is your problem.

 

[L.K.Eder]

so, how unconstitutional is it, this ACA?

you watchdogs, howl

 

[JakeStarkey]

So Chief Justice Roberts, the guy Bush chose, is now a secret (not so)

fascistcommiepinkosocialistfaggotromancatholicrunningdoglachey who hates Oddball, bigrebnc, The

Great Gasbag, koshergirlalliebaba, and all the other kook libertarians and far righty extremists.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

All of your challenges have always been answered correctly and properly.

That you, along with comrades such as bigrebnc, refuse to accept reality is your problem.

Like the one where I asked you to explain how a judge rewriting a law and ignoring precedent is not judicial activism?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

windbagh hijacks yet another thread with a personal vendetta? Ouch!

 

[JakeStarkey]

I have been telling GOP leaders for yearsthis day was coming.

Fucking meat heads. We could have done this so much more cleanly, more easily, more cost effective, and improved access and affordability and the national health.

Fucking meat heads.

Now we have to do it the hard way, and if Obama is re-elected, we are fucked.

 

[JakeStarkey]

All of your challenges have always been answered correctly and properly.

That you, along with comrades such as bigrebnc, refuse to accept reality is your problem.

Like the one where I asked you to explain how a judge rewriting a law and ignoring precedent is not judicial activism?

You have been answered by your betters. You don''t buy it, so you have to provide the case, I don't, because it is your affirmation.

Go for it meathead.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The most important right a consumer has in a free market is the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that they don't think is worth the money. Stripping that right from consumers makes us utterly powerless in the marketplace.

If what you want is to remove health care from the free market, than have the integrity to do it above board. Forcing us all into involuntary servitude to the insurance industry is not a 'step in the right direction'. It's a sickening sellout and everyone supporting it is culpable.

"The most important right a consumer has in a free market..." how are rights enforced? regulation?

"If what you want is to remove health care from the free market..." never said that, I would if I could take profit out of health insurance. Switzerland model:

Interviews - Pascal Couchepin | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

no profit...no free market...no choice for the patient...

solidarity......a catchword of socialism...."equal" does not always mean equal treatment....

When you say solidarity, you mean equal treatment for everybody?

Equal [insurance] premium, ... and that everybody can be insured.

who has the power with socialized medicine....certainly not the patient....

Who has the power? The small group of the people who leads these companies. And it is something for me which can be dangerous, because it is a business with a billion of Swiss francs, and the check and balance is not optimal in the present system. ...

your analysis of quotes take out of the context of the full interview helps you? What is best for the consumer? Not all consumers are patients getting care. You are skewing things to fit an anti socialist argument. Fine. But be fair. Is a socialist solution that works bad just because it is a socialist solution?

Social Security is a socialist solution, and how many decades of Americans have been better off then Americans before FDR?

question: When you said to the insurance companies, "No more profit on the basic health plan," what did they say?

Pascal Couchepin answers: They accept it; they have no choice. And [all these] companies are [heirs] of former social companies. For instance, the Groupe Mutuel ... was built on this idea: no profit; everything must be given to the people who are members of it. So there is a tradition of social attitude in these systems.

I am not systematically against the idea of having profits in the health insurance system, but if we introduce it, it is more with the idea to balance the power in the health insurance system, because now there is a lack of balance of power.

question: Who has the power?

Pascal Couchepin answers: Who has the power? The small group of the people who leads these companies. And it is something for me which can be dangerous, because it is a business with a billion of Swiss francs, and the check and balance is not optimal in the present system. ...

question: But you have government regulation, what we might call regulated competition. Does that work?

Pascal Couchepin answers: It is regulated competition. It is in order, but I think, as a Democrat, ... it could be not bad that once a year they [the company managers] have to go in front of a public assembly to answer questions about their salaries, about the way they see the future, about improvement in the quality of the services. It would be, my opinion, not so bad. And it could be possible through a system of shareholders, but not for profit, more for control.​

 

[Quantum Windbag]

windbagh hijacks yet another thread with a personal vendetta? Ouch!

If I did vendettas I would be following you around making weird comments like this.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

All of your challenges have always been answered correctly and properly.

That you, along with comrades such as bigrebnc, refuse to accept reality is your problem.

Like the one where I asked you to explain how a judge rewriting a law and ignoring precedent is not judicial activism?

You have been answered by your betters. You don''t buy it, so you have to provide the case, I don't, because it is your affirmation.

Go for it meathead.

My "betters" use a plural when they refer to themselves. interesting.

 

[Peach]

On fox now

Amazing how one guy who vowed to bring us together, can make a country so divided

We were divided prior to Obama, he has NOT brought us together, sadly. Bush II created the great divide.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

"The most important right a consumer has in a free market..." how are rights enforced? regulation?

"If what you want is to remove health care from the free market..." never said that, I would if I could take profit out of health insurance. Switzerland model:

Interviews - Pascal Couchepin | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

no profit...no free market...no choice for the patient...

solidarity......a catchword of socialism...."equal" does not always mean equal treatment....

who has the power with socialized medicine....certainly not the patient....

Who has the power? The small group of the people who leads these companies. And it is something for me which can be dangerous, because it is a business with a billion of Swiss francs, and the check and balance is not optimal in the present system. ...

your analysis of quotes take out of the context of the full interview helps you? What is best for the consumer? Not all consumers are patients getting care. You are skewing things to fit an anti socialist argument. Fine. But be fair. Is a socialist solution that works bad just because it is a socialist solution?

Social Security is a socialist solution, and how many decades of Americans have been better off then Americans before FDR?

question: When you said to the insurance companies, "No more profit on the basic health plan," what did they say?

Pascal Couchepin answers: They accept it; they have no choice. And [all these] companies are [heirs] of former social companies. For instance, the Groupe Mutuel ... was built on this idea: no profit; everything must be given to the people who are members of it. So there is a tradition of social attitude in these systems.

I am not systematically against the idea of having profits in the health insurance system, but if we introduce it, it is more with the idea to balance the power in the health insurance system, because now there is a lack of balance of power.

question: Who has the power?

Pascal Couchepin answers: Who has the power? The small group of the people who leads these companies. And it is something for me which can be dangerous, because it is a business with a billion of Swiss francs, and the check and balance is not optimal in the present system. ...

question: But you have government regulation, what we might call regulated competition. Does that work?

Pascal Couchepin answers: It is regulated competition. It is in order, but I think, as a Democrat, ... it could be not bad that once a year they [the company managers] have to go in front of a public assembly to answer questions about their salaries, about the way they see the future, about improvement in the quality of the services. It would be, my opinion, not so bad. And it could be possible through a system of shareholders, but not for profit, more for control.​

i am using your own interview to point out that the socialist answer is not what it's all cracked up to be.....the patient has no power.....a small elite group has all the power...."equal" may mean equal premiums but not necessarily equal treatment.....i would much prefer a free market patient-based system with perhaps some regulatory controls....

social security is a government program that has failed.....

medicare is a government program that has failed....

medicaid is a government program that has failed....

we need to get rid of all the unnecessary middlemen.....the government.....the employers.....the insurance companies (except for major medical).....and make health care costs transparent to the buyer...and allow for crossing state lines....costs will plummet as competitiion kicks in and the fat bloodsucking ticks are removed....

power to the patients...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Like the one where I asked you to explain how a judge rewriting a law and ignoring precedent is not judicial activism?

You have been answered by your betters. You don''t buy it, so you have to provide the case, I don't, because it is your affirmation.

Go for it meathead.

My "betters" use a plural when they refer to themselves. interesting.

Nah, only interesting thing is that you can't defend your position.

 

[JakeStarkey]

SS has not failed

Medicare has not failed

Medicaid has not failed

Screaming Eagle has failed.