Sure I burned their bodies but ...Stand Your Ground defense!

[2aguy]

2aguy, since you do not understand any law, please read carefully and learn.

You don't know Stand Your Ground so find a source and do some research....

 

[2aguy]

SC man who shot and ’slow-cooked’ two men out on bail thanks to ‘stand your ground’ law

Dead men have no defense....

FTA: James Edward Loftis, 39, is facing murder charges in the deaths of taxi driver Guma Oz Dubar, 46, and his friend James Cody Newland, 32, on March 5 after they demanded he pay his fare following a ride home from a strip club.

While Loftis has given police varying accounts of what happened that evening — once saying he invited the men in, while another time saying they barged into his home — several facts are not in dispute.

Loftis admitted that he shot both men before dragging their bodies outside his house, where he placed them in a shallow grave and set them on fire along with his bloody clothes before burying them.

“They were essentially just slow-cooked inside the grave site,” Deputy Solicitor Bryan Alfaro said during the bail hearing.

Conceding that what Loftis did was “heinous,” his attorney defended his client saying he was within his rights to defend himself in his own home under the state’s “stand your ground” laws.

“He’s a human being,” Stephen Harris said. “He freaked out and thought he was going to prison, so he tried to hide the bodies. Nobody knows how you’re going to react when you kill two people.”

Circuit Judge Markley Dennis agreed to allow Loftis to post $250,000 bail, saying his choice of the defense makes him less of a flight risk.

Where exactly does stand your ground come into this? Please....explain in detail. You do realize that if he shot these guys in his home...Stand Your Ground would not be the defense......but please....don't let facts, the truth or reality ruin your lying thread........

You're saying his lawyer is lying or this story isnt true?

Here is an expert in Self Defense law.......he was right on every aspect of the Zimmerman case as it was happening....

Stand-Your-Ground Racial Bias Study used “media definition,” not “legal definition”

 

[Uncensored2008]

They can't prove he didn't fear for his life

Murder is mostly legal in America these days in certain states and with the right lawyer.

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

 

[JakeStarkey]

2aguy, since you do not understand any law, please read carefully and learn.

You don't know Stand Your Ground so find a source and do some research....

And you prove my point.

Thanks. Do some research please and quit looking stupid.

 

[2aguy]

SC man who shot and ’slow-cooked’ two men out on bail thanks to ‘stand your ground’ law

Dead men have no defense....

FTA: James Edward Loftis, 39, is facing murder charges in the deaths of taxi driver Guma Oz Dubar, 46, and his friend James Cody Newland, 32, on March 5 after they demanded he pay his fare following a ride home from a strip club.

While Loftis has given police varying accounts of what happened that evening — once saying he invited the men in, while another time saying they barged into his home — several facts are not in dispute.

Loftis admitted that he shot both men before dragging their bodies outside his house, where he placed them in a shallow grave and set them on fire along with his bloody clothes before burying them.

“They were essentially just slow-cooked inside the grave site,” Deputy Solicitor Bryan Alfaro said during the bail hearing.

Conceding that what Loftis did was “heinous,” his attorney defended his client saying he was within his rights to defend himself in his own home under the state’s “stand your ground” laws.

“He’s a human being,” Stephen Harris said. “He freaked out and thought he was going to prison, so he tried to hide the bodies. Nobody knows how you’re going to react when you kill two people.”

Circuit Judge Markley Dennis agreed to allow Loftis to post $250,000 bail, saying his choice of the defense makes him less of a flight risk.

Where exactly does stand your ground come into this? Please....explain in detail. You do realize that if he shot these guys in his home...Stand Your Ground would not be the defense......but please....don't let facts, the truth or reality ruin your lying thread........

You're saying his lawyer is lying or this story isnt true?

Here is a break down of the elements of both legal self defense and Stand your ground and the Castle doctrine.....

New "Scientific" Stand-Your-Ground Study Is Ignorant of the Law

1. The Five Elements of the Law of Self Defense
To qualify as self-defense your use of force must satisfy up to five prongs or elements of self-defense law. These are:

Innocence: You must not have been the aggressor.
Imminence: The threat you perceive must be imminent.
Proportionality: You must use no more force than necessary.
Avoidance: You must retreat if safely possible before using defensive force.
Reasonableness: Your conduct in self-defense must be reasonable.

In fact, however, only a minority of states apply all five of these elements. Just 16 states impose a legal duty to retreat before using force in self-defense. The large majority of 34 states impose no such legal duty, and thus are effectively SYG states.

Even in a SYG jurisdiction, of course, one must still meet the other four elements of self-defense: innocence, imminence, proportionality, and reasonableness. If you violate any one of those, your claim of self-defense will fail, and you will be fully criminally liable for your use of force against another.

In effect, then, the only thing that SYG does is relieve that otherwise existing legal duty to retreat before using force in self-defense.

The fact that SYG is merely a sub-component of a larger legal claim of self-defense has important implications for any analysis of SYG .

-----------


3. If Defender In His “Castle” = Not a SYG Case
It is also important to note that even in the minority of states where a legal duty to retreat is imposed there are always at least two exceptions to that duty.

First, there is the “Castle Doctrine” exception: One is relieved of the legal duty to retreat before using defensive force if one is within one’s home (or “castle”).

 

[TheOldSchool]

They can't prove he didn't fear for his life

Murder is mostly legal in America these days in certain states and with the right lawyer.

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

 

[2aguy]

They can't prove he didn't fear for his life

Murder is mostly legal in America these days in certain states and with the right lawyer.

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

The state could still prove he murdered them.........so yes, he could still go to prison for murder....

And more on why this is not Stand Your ground...

4. If Retreat Is Not Possible = Not a SYG Case
Second, the legal duty to retreat applies only where a safe avenue of retreat is available to the defender. The defender is never required to increase his jeopardy in attempting to retreat, and as well if there simply exists no means of retreat then it is simply not possible to impose the duty as a practical matter.

These two limitations on the legal duty to retreat have important consequences for any analysis of SYG.

Effectively, it means that where a defender is in one’s home or where the defender has no safe avenue of retreat, then SYG is irrelevant.


Whether the defender were in a stand-your-ground jurisdiction or a duty-to-retreat jurisdiction, under either of those circumstances there would be no legal duty to retreat and the defender may “stand his ground.”

 

[Uncensored2008]

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

And you base this on the inscriptions found on your upper colon walls?

 

[Uncensored2008]

He will be convicted of Murder.

 

[JakeStarkey]

2aguy followed my advice.

Good for him.

 

[2aguy]

He will be convicted of Murder.

Maybe not.......for burning the bodies..yeah...but he might get out of a murder charge...

Why Do Reporters Continually Misrepresent "Stand Your Ground" Laws?

 

[TheOldSchool]

They can't prove he didn't fear for his life

Murder is mostly legal in America these days in certain states and with the right lawyer.

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

The state could still prove he murdered them.........so yes, he could still go to prison for murder....

And more on why this is not Stand Your ground...

4. If Retreat Is Not Possible = Not a SYG Case
Second, the legal duty to retreat applies only where a safe avenue of retreat is available to the defender. The defender is never required to increase his jeopardy in attempting to retreat, and as well if there simply exists no means of retreat then it is simply not possible to impose the duty as a practical matter.

These two limitations on the legal duty to retreat have important consequences for any analysis of SYG.

Effectively, it means that where a defender is in one’s home or where the defender has no safe avenue of retreat, then SYG is irrelevant.


Whether the defender were in a stand-your-ground jurisdiction or a duty-to-retreat jurisdiction, under either of those circumstances there would be no legal duty to retreat and the defender may “stand his ground.”

I never said anything about standing your ground. You can't prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

 

[2aguy]

2aguy followed my advice.

Good for him.

Moron....you had no clue about the law......but you know how to be an asshole and an asswipe...you have had a lot of practice at it and a natural ability......

 

[2aguy]

They can't prove he didn't fear for his life

Murder is mostly legal in America these days in certain states and with the right lawyer.

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

The state could still prove he murdered them.........so yes, he could still go to prison for murder....

And more on why this is not Stand Your ground...

4. If Retreat Is Not Possible = Not a SYG Case
Second, the legal duty to retreat applies only where a safe avenue of retreat is available to the defender. The defender is never required to increase his jeopardy in attempting to retreat, and as well if there simply exists no means of retreat then it is simply not possible to impose the duty as a practical matter.

These two limitations on the legal duty to retreat have important consequences for any analysis of SYG.

Effectively, it means that where a defender is in one’s home or where the defender has no safe avenue of retreat, then SYG is irrelevant.


Whether the defender were in a stand-your-ground jurisdiction or a duty-to-retreat jurisdiction, under either of those circumstances there would be no legal duty to retreat and the defender may “stand his ground.”

I never said anything about standing your ground. You can't prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

It was the original story.......

 

[2aguy]

They can't prove he didn't fear for his life

Murder is mostly legal in America these days in certain states and with the right lawyer.

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

The state could still prove he murdered them.........so yes, he could still go to prison for murder....

And more on why this is not Stand Your ground...

4. If Retreat Is Not Possible = Not a SYG Case
Second, the legal duty to retreat applies only where a safe avenue of retreat is available to the defender. The defender is never required to increase his jeopardy in attempting to retreat, and as well if there simply exists no means of retreat then it is simply not possible to impose the duty as a practical matter.

These two limitations on the legal duty to retreat have important consequences for any analysis of SYG.

Effectively, it means that where a defender is in one’s home or where the defender has no safe avenue of retreat, then SYG is irrelevant.


Whether the defender were in a stand-your-ground jurisdiction or a duty-to-retreat jurisdiction, under either of those circumstances there would be no legal duty to retreat and the defender may “stand his ground.”

I never said anything about standing your ground. You can't prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

There is a lot we don't know.......

 

[TheOldSchool]

They can't prove he didn't fear for his life

Murder is mostly legal in America these days in certain states and with the right lawyer.

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

The state could still prove he murdered them.........so yes, he could still go to prison for murder....

And more on why this is not Stand Your ground...

4. If Retreat Is Not Possible = Not a SYG Case
Second, the legal duty to retreat applies only where a safe avenue of retreat is available to the defender. The defender is never required to increase his jeopardy in attempting to retreat, and as well if there simply exists no means of retreat then it is simply not possible to impose the duty as a practical matter.

These two limitations on the legal duty to retreat have important consequences for any analysis of SYG.

Effectively, it means that where a defender is in one’s home or where the defender has no safe avenue of retreat, then SYG is irrelevant.


Whether the defender were in a stand-your-ground jurisdiction or a duty-to-retreat jurisdiction, under either of those circumstances there would be no legal duty to retreat and the defender may “stand his ground.”

I never said anything about standing your ground. You can't prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

It was the original story.......

Sorry I was speaking to somebody else about a different issue. Point being, he cannot be convicted of murder because nobody can prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

 

[bodecea]

South Carolina....need not say more.

My home state. Where do you live? Because things are wonderful here for everyone except criminals.

Apparently that guy is doing just fine.

And my sympathies...not sure if they go to you or to the state.

 

[2aguy]

So when he goes to prison, you'll publicly acknowledge what a fucktarded demagogue you are?

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

The state could still prove he murdered them.........so yes, he could still go to prison for murder....

And more on why this is not Stand Your ground...

4. If Retreat Is Not Possible = Not a SYG Case
Second, the legal duty to retreat applies only where a safe avenue of retreat is available to the defender. The defender is never required to increase his jeopardy in attempting to retreat, and as well if there simply exists no means of retreat then it is simply not possible to impose the duty as a practical matter.

These two limitations on the legal duty to retreat have important consequences for any analysis of SYG.

Effectively, it means that where a defender is in one’s home or where the defender has no safe avenue of retreat, then SYG is irrelevant.


Whether the defender were in a stand-your-ground jurisdiction or a duty-to-retreat jurisdiction, under either of those circumstances there would be no legal duty to retreat and the defender may “stand his ground.”

I never said anything about standing your ground. You can't prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

It was the original story.......

Sorry I was speaking to somebody else about a different issue. Point being, he cannot be convicted of murder because nobody can prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

I think it is too early to know how they will find him in this.......there may be more evidence we don't know about yet......

 

[2aguy]

Here are some thoughts on the case and the bad reporting...and some evidence is mentioned...there is likely a big footprint on his door.......

Why Do Reporters Continually Misrepresent "Stand Your Ground" Laws?

A footprint on the front door of the Loftis home, blood on the doorjamb, and the preliminary crime scene showing that the men were shot inside the home seem to provide at least partial corroboration for Loftis’s claim that the men forced their way into his home. The Goose Creek Police even admit that Dubar and Newland forced their way into the Loftis home

Folks, he has the right to use armed self-defense to stop someone attempting to invade his home. That’s castle doctrine. It’s been that way since we picked up the terminology from the Britons, and the concept dates back even further to the Romans.

“Stand your ground” (SYG) laws are different from, but related to castle doctrine. The concept behind SYG laws is that you have no duty to retreat from where you are legally entitled to be. SYG is an extension of the legal protections of castle doctrine so that you don’t have to give up your back and attempt retreat when under a deadly force attack.

 

[TheOldSchool]

If he goes to prison it won't be for murder. So there will be no reason for me to admit anything.

The state could still prove he murdered them.........so yes, he could still go to prison for murder....

And more on why this is not Stand Your ground...

4. If Retreat Is Not Possible = Not a SYG Case
Second, the legal duty to retreat applies only where a safe avenue of retreat is available to the defender. The defender is never required to increase his jeopardy in attempting to retreat, and as well if there simply exists no means of retreat then it is simply not possible to impose the duty as a practical matter.

These two limitations on the legal duty to retreat have important consequences for any analysis of SYG.

Effectively, it means that where a defender is in one’s home or where the defender has no safe avenue of retreat, then SYG is irrelevant.


Whether the defender were in a stand-your-ground jurisdiction or a duty-to-retreat jurisdiction, under either of those circumstances there would be no legal duty to retreat and the defender may “stand his ground.”

I never said anything about standing your ground. You can't prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

It was the original story.......

Sorry I was speaking to somebody else about a different issue. Point being, he cannot be convicted of murder because nobody can prove he wasn't in fear for his life.

I think it is too early to know how they will find him in this.......there may be more evidence we don't know about yet......

Possibly, but in a case where the only witness is the killer, saying he feared for his life is the best defense.