Surge In Greenland Ice Loss

[Abraham3]

Are you under the impression that any of that has any bearing on the Greenland melt rate?

 

[westwall]

Are you under the impression that any of that has any bearing on the Greenland melt rate?

Why, yes it does. It shows how you guys say all these things that are never born out by actual observations. Your entire pseudo-science is based on computer generated science fiction. The world is learning just how bad the "science" you people have been churning out is, and they are not happy.

 

[Abraham3]

Speaking of pseudo science: you made repeated claims that the predictions of AGW weren't falsifiable. Yet when I listed four, fundamental, defining predictions of AGW and asked for ANYONE to explain why they weren't falsifiable, you were very notable for your absence.

Why was that?

 

[westwall]

Speaking of pseudo science: you made repeated claims that the predictions of AGW weren't falsifiable. Yet when I listed four, fundamental, defining predictions of AGW and asked for ANYONE to explain why they weren't falsifiable, you were very notable for your absence.

Why was that?

Ummmm, I addressed those. Where were you?

 

[ScienceRocks]

it would take tens of thousands of years of todays temperatures to melt Greenland

 

[Old Rocks]

it would take tens of thousands of years of todays temperatures to melt Greenland

True, but just three feet of sea rise would screw most of the worlds seaports in a major way, and, between Greenland, Anarctica, the alpine glaciers, and heat expansion of the ocean water, it looks like we will get that between now and 2100.

 

[Old Rocks]

Are you under the impression that any of that has any bearing on the Greenland melt rate?

Why, yes it does. It shows how you guys say all these things that are never born out by actual observations. Your entire pseudo-science is based on computer generated science fiction. The world is learning just how bad the "science" you people have been churning out is, and they are not happy.

And, again, ol' Walleyes is lying to support an insupportable position. We have on the ground observations of the world's alpine glaciers, the measurements of the Arctic Ice Cap, and the melting of both the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps. In almost all areas of the world we seeing later falls, and earlier springs. Average temperatures continue to go up, and the weather continues to get dicier for agriculture.

And there are still no Scientfic Societies, not a single National Academy of Science, nor any major Universites supporting the lies of the denialists. The science is sound, and the denialists have no science to back up their assertations.

 

[Old Rocks]

In other words, just silly flap yap and no evidence to back your position.

The evidence we have to back our position is every word you guys say. You have not been correct in 30 years of prediction so you've just plain stopped that. Nothing measurable and nothing specific is your fraudsters mantra.

Thanks for proving our point.

Once again, the lie. It is you denialists that have been totally wrong for a lot more than 30 years. Dr. James Hansen predicted the opening of the Northwest Passage in 1981. You idiots stated that he was completely out of his head and an alarmist. You stated at that time that there was no warming at all. Now you even deny making those statements. And now you claim, "well, yes, it is warming, but it is just natural cycles". Except you cannot put a name to those cycles.

Lessons from Past Predictions: Hansen 1981

Predicted Climate Impacts
Hansen et al. also discussed several climate impacts which would result as consequences of their projected global warming:

"Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage."

We can check off all of these predictions.

The southwestern United States and Central Asia have experienced frequent droughts in recent years;
The West Antarctic ice sheet has eroded;
Global sea level has risen; and
The Northwest Passage opened in 2007

 

[elektra]

In other words, just silly flap yap and no evidence to back your position.

The evidence we have to back our position is every word you guys say. You have not been correct in 30 years of prediction so you've just plain stopped that. Nothing measurable and nothing specific is your fraudsters mantra.

Thanks for proving our point.

Once again, the lie. It is you denialists that have been totally wrong for a lot more than 30 years. Dr. James Hansen predicted the opening of the Northwest Passage in 1981. You idiots stated that he was completely out of his head and an alarmist. You stated at that time that there was no warming at all. Now you even deny making those statements. And now you claim, "well, yes, it is warming, but it is just natural cycles". Except you cannot put a name to those cycles.

Lessons from Past Predictions: Hansen 1981

Predicted Climate Impacts
Hansen et al. also discussed several climate impacts which would result as consequences of their projected global warming:

"Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage."

We can check off all of these predictions.

The southwestern United States and Central Asia have experienced frequent droughts in recent years;
The West Antarctic ice sheet has eroded;
Global sea level has risen; and
The Northwest Passage opened in 2007

How about the study and not the press release.

 

[Old Rocks]

The evidence we have to back our position is every word you guys say. You have not been correct in 30 years of prediction so you've just plain stopped that. Nothing measurable and nothing specific is your fraudsters mantra.

Thanks for proving our point.

Once again, the lie. It is you denialists that have been totally wrong for a lot more than 30 years. Dr. James Hansen predicted the opening of the Northwest Passage in 1981. You idiots stated that he was completely out of his head and an alarmist. You stated at that time that there was no warming at all. Now you even deny making those statements. And now you claim, "well, yes, it is warming, but it is just natural cycles". Except you cannot put a name to those cycles.

Lessons from Past Predictions: Hansen 1981

Predicted Climate Impacts
Hansen et al. also discussed several climate impacts which would result as consequences of their projected global warming:

"Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage."

We can check off all of these predictions.

The southwestern United States and Central Asia have experienced frequent droughts in recent years;
The West Antarctic ice sheet has eroded;
Global sea level has risen; and
The Northwest Passage opened in 2007

How about the study and not the press release.

No sooner requested than done;

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1981/1981_Hansen_etal_1.pdf

And, as a bonus;

James Hansen: Why I must speak out about climate change | Talk Video | TED

Now, is there more real science that you would like concerning this issue?

 

[jc456]

Once again, the lie. It is you denialists that have been totally wrong for a lot more than 30 years. Dr. James Hansen predicted the opening of the Northwest Passage in 1981. You idiots stated that he was completely out of his head and an alarmist. You stated at that time that there was no warming at all. Now you even deny making those statements. And now you claim, "well, yes, it is warming, but it is just natural cycles". Except you cannot put a name to those cycles.

Lessons from Past Predictions: Hansen 1981

Predicted Climate Impacts
Hansen et al. also discussed several climate impacts which would result as consequences of their projected global warming:

"Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage."

We can check off all of these predictions.

The southwestern United States and Central Asia have experienced frequent droughts in recent years;
The West Antarctic ice sheet has eroded;
Global sea level has risen; and
The Northwest Passage opened in 2007

How about the study and not the press release.

No sooner requested than done;

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1981/1981_Hansen_etal_1.pdf

And, as a bonus;

James Hansen: Why I must speak out about climate change | Talk Video | TED

Now, is there more real science that you would like concerning this issue?

Really?

 

[Abraham3]

Yeah, really.

 

[Old Rocks]

Are you under the impression that any of that has any bearing on the Greenland melt rate?

Why, yes it does. It shows how you guys say all these things that are never born out by actual observations. Your entire pseudo-science is based on computer generated science fiction. The world is learning just how bad the "science" you people have been churning out is, and they are not happy.

Well, our chief liar here once again spews lies. Yes, the melt in Greenland is born out by ground observations, a great many of them.

Large-scale changes in Greenland outlet glacier dynamics triggered at the terminus : Abstract : Nature Geoscience

Large-scale changes in Greenland outlet glacier dynamics triggered at the terminus
Faezeh M. Nick1,4, Andreas Vieli1, Ian M. Howat2 & Ian Joughin3

top of page
The recent marked retreat, thinning and acceleration of most of Greenland's outlet glaciers south of 70° N has increased concerns over Greenland's contribution to future sea level rise1, 2, 3, 4, 5. These dynamic changes seem to be parallel to the warming trend in Greenland, but the mechanisms that link climate and ice dynamics are poorly understood, and current numerical models of ice sheets do not simulate these changes realistically6, 7, 8. Uncertainties in the predictions of mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet have therefore been highlighted as one of the main limitations in forecasting future sea levels9. Here we present a numerical ice-flow model that reproduces the observed marked changes in Helheim Glacier, one of Greenland's largest outlet glaciers. Our simulation shows that the ice acceleration, thinning and retreat begin at the calving terminus and then propagate upstream through dynamic coupling along the glacier. We find that these changes are unlikely to be caused by basal lubrication through surface melt propagating to the glacier bed. We conclude that tidewater outlet glaciers adjust extremely rapidly to changing boundary conditions at the calving terminus. Our results imply that the recent rates of mass loss in Greenland's outlet glaciers are transient and should not be extrapolated into the future.

 

[jc456]

Yeah, really.

So was the passage ever opened?

 

[jc456]

Are you under the impression that any of that has any bearing on the Greenland melt rate?

Why, yes it does. It shows how you guys say all these things that are never born out by actual observations. Your entire pseudo-science is based on computer generated science fiction. The world is learning just how bad the "science" you people have been churning out is, and they are not happy.

Well, our chief liar here once again spews lies. Yes, the melt in Greenland is born out by ground observations, a great many of them.

Large-scale changes in Greenland outlet glacier dynamics triggered at the terminus : Abstract : Nature Geoscience

Large-scale changes in Greenland outlet glacier dynamics triggered at the terminus
Faezeh M. Nick1,4, Andreas Vieli1, Ian M. Howat2 & Ian Joughin3

top of page
The recent marked retreat, thinning and acceleration of most of Greenland's outlet glaciers south of 70° N has increased concerns over Greenland's contribution to future sea level rise1, 2, 3, 4, 5. These dynamic changes seem to be parallel to the warming trend in Greenland, but the mechanisms that link climate and ice dynamics are poorly understood, and current numerical models of ice sheets do not simulate these changes realistically6, 7, 8. Uncertainties in the predictions of mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet have therefore been highlighted as one of the main limitations in forecasting future sea levels9. Here we present a numerical ice-flow model that reproduces the observed marked changes in Helheim Glacier, one of Greenland's largest outlet glaciers. Our simulation shows that the ice acceleration, thinning and retreat begin at the calving terminus and then propagate upstream through dynamic coupling along the glacier. We find that these changes are unlikely to be caused by basal lubrication through surface melt propagating to the glacier bed. We conclude that tidewater outlet glaciers adjust extremely rapidly to changing boundary conditions at the calving terminus. Our results imply that the recent rates of mass loss in Greenland's outlet glaciers are transient and should not be extrapolated into the future.

It seems to me that the words model and simulation are in this quote. Hmm....I thought you said ground observations?

 

[Old Rocks]

Ah crap. Another dingbat with reading comprehension problems. Their models are trying to simulate what has already happened with the glaciers.

 

[westwall]

Are you under the impression that any of that has any bearing on the Greenland melt rate?

Why, yes it does. It shows how you guys say all these things that are never born out by actual observations. Your entire pseudo-science is based on computer generated science fiction. The world is learning just how bad the "science" you people have been churning out is, and they are not happy.

Well, our chief liar here once again spews lies. Yes, the melt in Greenland is born out by ground observations, a great many of them.

Large-scale changes in Greenland outlet glacier dynamics triggered at the terminus : Abstract : Nature Geoscience

Large-scale changes in Greenland outlet glacier dynamics triggered at the terminus
Faezeh M. Nick1,4, Andreas Vieli1, Ian M. Howat2 & Ian Joughin3

top of page
The recent marked retreat, thinning and acceleration of most of Greenland's outlet glaciers south of 70° N has increased concerns over Greenland's contribution to future sea level rise1, 2, 3, 4, 5. These dynamic changes seem to be parallel to the warming trend in Greenland, but the mechanisms that link climate and ice dynamics are poorly understood, and current numerical models of ice sheets do not simulate these changes realistically6, 7, 8. Uncertainties in the predictions of mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet have therefore been highlighted as one of the main limitations in forecasting future sea levels9. Here we present a numerical ice-flow model that reproduces the observed marked changes in Helheim Glacier, one of Greenland's largest outlet glaciers. Our simulation shows that the ice acceleration, thinning and retreat begin at the calving terminus and then propagate upstream through dynamic coupling along the glacier. We find that these changes are unlikely to be caused by basal lubrication through surface melt propagating to the glacier bed. We conclude that tidewater outlet glaciers adjust extremely rapidly to changing boundary conditions at the calving terminus. Our results imply that the recent rates of mass loss in Greenland's outlet glaciers are transient and should not be extrapolated into the future.

Wow, you really truly are stupid. You call me a liar and then post this shit? I mean c'mon....at least make some effort you twerp!



Our simulation shows that the ice acceleration, thinning and retreat begin at the calving terminus and then propagate upstream through dynamic coupling along the glacier. We find that these changes are unlikely to be caused by basal lubrication through surface melt propagating to the glacier bed. We conclude that tidewater outlet glaciers adjust extremely rapidly to changing boundary conditions at the calving terminus. Our results imply that the recent rates of mass loss in Greenland's outlet glaciers are transient and should not be extrapolated into the future."




So here we have a "simulation" with a belief that there is "basal lubrication" (wonder how they were able to get their eyes on that) and their study "implies", once again, if you SEE something you don't need to GUESS WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!

Really olfraud, are you so detached that you just phone it in now?
"

 

[westwall]

Ah crap. Another dingbat with reading comprehension problems. Their models are trying to simulate what has already happened with the glaciers.

Aw crap, another progressive asshat who says one thing then posts something which says the exact opposite.

 

[jc456]

Ah crap. Another dingbat with reading comprehension problems. Their models are trying to simulate what has already happened with the glaciers.

Well my friend, if it already happened then why must they simulate anything? State the conclusion based on the ground conclusion and call it a day. The problem is they can't. Hence model and simulation are necessary.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

AGWCult: We've eliminated all the variables and found that a 100PPM increase in CO2 is melting Greenland

Scientists: Can you show us in a lab how a 100ppm increase in CO2 does any of that?

AGWCult: No, you fool! The system is far too complicated with far too many variables to replicate in a lab

Scientists: Then how could you have possibly eliminated all other variables except for a wisp of CO2?

AGWCult: Denier! Arrest him!