Taxing those who make money

[American Horse]

The SE tax is more useful to consider because the self employed person is paying the whole tax, which is true in any case for the hourly or salaried employed person. The employers part in that case still reflects a part of the cost of compensation for the employee.

Indeed true, I'm not denying that, but that's not the whole story. Why not throw other mandated employer costs into it - such as worker's compensation? I used to do barge inspections on the Mississippi river, my boss used to bitch because he paid $12 for every job I did for worker's comp.

The SS "tax" is actually just forced purchasing of disability and retirement insurance. And after the cutoff (106k per earner) - what you pay for that insurance is the same as what everyone else above the cutoff pays.

The reason it exists is quite simple - when the great depression hit, lots of people too old to work or disabled from work had no bread to eat. So the government had to take care of them anyway - which is exactly what would happen to a lot of people if there was no SS insurance.

Certainly, employers calculate the cost of WC as a cost of the employee. They also take that into account when hiring. But the employees contribution to their SS or Medicare "insurance" account has a direct and isolated benefit to them.

The cost to the employer for WC insurance is fair and just because it reflects the kind of work they are asking their employees to do, and their own decisions. A "roofing" contractor has a much higher premium rate than does a contractor who does "general carpentry" or "excavator." And an employer who has a bad safety record will have higher rates because of his jobsite carelessness, none of which is directly attributable to the employee. But the employee enjoys the benefit of being in some small way "made whole" or being compensated for disabilities.

I think there is some justification (at least recognized by congress people) that after a certain level of income, there is no added benefit to the payor. At some income level they will even take on a greater share of their own healthcare. Furthermore to keep taxing above that base is seen as potentially making SS and Med into welfare programs

 

[Oldandtired]

Elucidate?

By no means directed to you, But I see why you would think it was....I would have thought the same if the tables were turned.

You obviously have a grasp on the topic and I am sure you see the point being made.....and you offered your opinion showing how it may not have as great an impact as some may believe.

I was referring to those that simply dismiss it as "conspiracy".

It is fact. The true impact is yet to be seen...but there are, and will be certain gross income numbers where a dollar more earned may mean many more dollars less in in net.

And for smaller business owners...and s-coprs.....there may be those that will decide when to "halt sales" to prevent taking home less....

And you cannot deny that it would not be in the best interest of the economy nor the need to maximize tax revenue to help remedy the deficit.

I'd like to see the specific law that does this.

I am not an accountant and I am not an attorney.

Lets look at the basic...

I make 249,999K Income in 2009....

The next year...

I make one dollar more...

I have just become that evil rich greedy business owner...with the earning of 1 extra dollar....but I digress......

Now, earning that 250K, I am paying say....3% more on my GAI which we will say is 180K.

So my net for 1 dollar more earned is now $5,400 less.

See it?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I make 249,999K Income in 2009....

The next year...

I make one dollar more...

I have just become that evil rich greedy business owner...with the earning of 1 extra dollar....but I digress......

Now, earning that 250K, I am paying say....3% more on my GAI which we will say is 180K.

So my net for 1 dollar more earned is now $5,400 less.

See it?

Uhhhhh, no. That's not how income tax works.

 

[Oldandtired]

I make 249,999K Income in 2009....

The next year...

I make one dollar more...

I have just become that evil rich greedy business owner...with the earning of 1 extra dollar....but I digress......

Now, earning that 250K, I am paying say....3% more on my GAI which we will say is 180K.

So my net for 1 dollar more earned is now $5,400 less.

See it?

Uhhhhh, no. That's not how income tax works.

Up until now....no it isnt.

Once you throw an added tax precentage on a fixed number of gross.....it is exactly how it will work.

Please explain otherwise. I am open to being worng......and I will get a new accountant.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Anyone who thinks that you are going to be able to confiscate TRILLIONS of $$ from the "rich" to pay for free (fill in the blank) for the masses is nuts.

The party is over folks.. it's all been a lie.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Once you throw an added tax precentage on a fixed number of gross.....it is exactly how it will work.

Uhh, no, no one is proposing that. Sorry.

Please explain otherwise. I am open to being worng......and I will get a new accountant.

I have no idea what your individual tax situation is.


But here are the tax brackets for this year (2010 tax year, filingin 2011)

If you make $250,001 AGI, you will only pay 36 cents more in taxes as compared to $250,000.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I make 249,999K Income in 2009....

The next year...

I make one dollar more...

I have just become that evil rich greedy business owner...with the earning of 1 extra dollar....but I digress......

Now, earning that 250K, I am paying say....3% more on my GAI which we will say is 180K.

So my net for 1 dollar more earned is now $5,400 less.

See it?

Uhhhhh, no. That's not how income tax works.

Up until now....no it isnt.

Once you throw an added tax precentage on a fixed number of gross.....it is exactly how it will work.

Please explain otherwise. I am open to being worng......and I will get a new accountant.

Don't waste your time.... this asshat has no concept of the flaws of proggresive taxation.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Once you throw an added tax precentage on a fixed number of gross.....it is exactly how it will work.

Uhh, no, no one is proposing that. Sorry.

Please explain otherwise. I am open to being worng......and I will get a new accountant.

I have no idea what your individual tax situation is.


But here are the tax brackets for this year (2010 tax year, filingin 2011)

If you make $250,001 AGI, you will only pay 36 cents more in taxes as compared to $250,000.

Wow.. 36% of $250,000 is 36 cents?

LMAO!!!!!!

 

[Oldandtired]

Once you throw an added tax precentage on a fixed number of gross.....it is exactly how it will work.

Uhh, no, no one is proposing that. Sorry.

Please explain otherwise. I am open to being worng......and I will get a new accountant.

I have no idea what your individual tax situation is.


But here are the tax brackets for this year (2010 tax year, filingin 2011)

If you make $250,001 AGI, you will only pay 36 cents more in taxes as compared to $250,000.

Jeez...am I really so wrapped up in keeping my business alive that I missed that?

Are you sure the increase is ONLY ON the increase in dollars above 250K? and not the entire 250K?

I was informed otherwise......at least I thought I this is what I was told.

If you are correct, then I need a vacation.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Once you throw an added tax precentage on a fixed number of gross.....it is exactly how it will work.

Uhh, no, no one is proposing that. Sorry.

Please explain otherwise. I am open to being worng......and I will get a new accountant.

I have no idea what your individual tax situation is.


But here are the tax brackets for this year (2010 tax year, filingin 2011)

If you make $250,001 AGI, you will only pay 36 cents more in taxes as compared to $250,000.

Wow.. 36% of $250,000 is 36 cents?

LMAO!!!!!!

Jesus fucking Christ, do I seriously have to explain how tax brackets work?


The rate of a tax bracket applies ONLY TO INCOME EARNED IN THAT BRACKET. If you make 300,000, the 36% rate applies only to the 50,000 earned above 250,000.


ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Jeez...am I really so wrapped up in keeping my business alive that I missed that?

Are you sure the increase is ONLY ON the increase in dollars above 250K? and not the entire 250K?

YES


Wow, you actually run a business and don't even know very basic things about the structure of income tax in this country, that's amazing. What kind of business is it - grass cutting? dirt hauling?

 

[editec]

People making money are often too busy to understand the arcane laws of our tax codes.

One can't fault people for that, really.

That's why tax accounts exist.

 

[Oldandtired]

Jeez...am I really so wrapped up in keeping my business alive that I missed that?

Are you sure the increase is ONLY ON the increase in dollars above 250K? and not the entire 250K?

YES


Wow, you actually run a business and don't even know very basic things about the structure of income tax in this country, that's amazing. What kind of business is it - grass cutting? dirt hauling?

I run several businesses and employ many. I am successful and happy. I know my limitations and gladly hire the professionals to deal with things I know little about and care to know little about.

I have my accountant prepare my returns and I sign and file. I usually owe, and I pay what I owe.

Unfortunately, there are people like you that feel the need to berate those that ask questions and admit ignorance.

Maybe more would ask questions if people didnt act like dicks as you just did.

I guess you know all. You should be very proud of yourself.

And by the way...your signature line?

Looking at the response of yours before the response I am responding to....it seems you must be part of the GOP.

You are an asshole and a hypocrite.

Thanks for the info. Go back to your pulpit.

 

[uscitizen]

Uhh, no, no one is proposing that. Sorry.



I have no idea what your individual tax situation is.


But here are the tax brackets for this year (2010 tax year, filingin 2011)

If you make $250,001 AGI, you will only pay 36 cents more in taxes as compared to $250,000.

Wow.. 36% of $250,000 is 36 cents?

LMAO!!!!!!

Jesus fucking Christ, do I seriously have to explain how tax brackets work?


The rate of a tax bracket applies ONLY TO INCOME EARNED IN THAT BRACKET. If you make 300,000, the 36% rate applies only to the 50,000 earned above 250,000.


ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

did you really have to ask.
This is like the oldsters on medicare telling everyone they did not want the govt running their healthcare.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Unfortunately, there are people like you that feel the need to berate those that ask questions and admit ignorance.

I just hope you haven't cast too many votes in your life based on any income tax issues due to your lack of even the most basic understanding of our income tax system.

But relax, you're not the only one judging from this thread. In fact, I wonder how many conservatives went to the polls thinking just as you did that $1 over 250k in income means $3600 more in taxes, not $0.36.

 

[uscitizen]

Unfortunately, there are people like you that feel the need to berate those that ask questions and admit ignorance.

I just hope you haven't cast too many votes in your life based on any income tax issues due to your lack of even the most basic understanding of our income tax system.

But relax, you're not the only one judging from this thread. In fact, I wonder how many conservatives went to the polls thinking just as you did that $1 over 250k in income means $3600 more in taxes, not $0.36.

It got Brown elected.

 

[Oldandtired]

Jesus fucking Christ, do I seriously have to explain how tax brackets work?


The rate of a tax bracket applies ONLY TO INCOME EARNED IN THAT BRACKET. If you make 300,000, the 36% rate applies only to the 50,000 earned above 250,000.


ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

did you really have to ask.
This is like the oldsters on medicare telling everyone they did not want the govt running their healthcare.

So you support the idea of someone innocently asking a question about something he admits he knows little about getting berated by the one who answers the question?

You are certainly not what I thought USC....I took you for a gentelman with different political views...but one of true character.

One who supports the berating of those that ask innocent questions is not one of character.

 

[uscitizen]

How did you get to be a business owner and old without understanding how the income tax system brackets worked?

I am amazed.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

People making money are often too busy to understand the arcane laws of our tax codes.

Hope they are too busy to vote as well, then.

 

[Oldandtired]

Unfortunately, there are people like you that feel the need to berate those that ask questions and admit ignorance.

I just hope you haven't cast too many votes in your life based on any income tax issues due to your lack of even the most basic understanding of our income tax system.

But relax, you're not the only one judging from this thread. In fact, I wonder how many conservatives went to the polls thinking just as you did that $1 over 250k in income means $3600 more in taxes, not $0.36.

I do not make decisions based on things I do not know or understand.
That is why I asked.

If You have a problem with that, then you are likely not nearly as knowledgable as you believe.

Consider that a hypothesis.