Taxpayers bail out Tom Brady

[pknopp]

We have never been pure capitalist. And never will.

You mean we are a socialist nation already?

Told ya so

No, we arent socialist. But its what many dumbfucks in this nation want.

Where in capitalism do we find the part where taxpayers are responsible for the costs of a persons business?

That doesnt mean we are socialist. Thats silly to even think that.
Lets stop the hyperbole (or complete ignorance) and look at what socialism actually is : a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
We obviously arent there but we are getting there. Every day, more fo our freedoms and liberties are being stripped away because our lazy population cant wipe their own ass.
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

― Benjamin Franklin

This thread is about people voting themselves money. I support a collapse.

 

[Juicin]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

There is no other way to hand out loans in this country without creating an agency full of bankers to evaluate these claims the way banks would. Except do it with no profit motive

We have no such agency

 

[pknopp]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

Where does this fit into capitalism?

 

[Juicin]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

Where does this fit into capitalism?

Right at the point where GDP matters and our economy collapsing is more important than first principles?

 

[TNHarley]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

We have never been pure capitalist. And never will.

So there is nothing evil with programs that are socialist in nature like so many pretend.

Its regressive, so, yes.
Pure capitalism is actual progress. Not programs based off 12th century command economies.

There will never be pure capitalism because it wouldn't work.

IKR? The govt giving business pure control of how they run, the govt cant devalue the dollar with an out of control FED, free trade etc would be so fucking detrimental, right?

To those running the country yes it would be. They couldn't determine who could trade with who. The markets would collapse because it wasn't being propped up with the Federal Reserve.

I'm all for it. It's never going to happen. We are never going to go in that direction.

If we were capitalist, "those running the country" wouldnt be very needed..
Saying the markets would collapse is just something the statists say.
The FED is why our dollar is so weak. The FED hurts our poor and middle class more than just about anything. The FED brought us endless boom and bust cycles. The encourage deficit spending and they are blatantly unconstitutional. ESPECIALLY their actions.
The FED brought about most of the reasons people want "socialism" they are just too fucking stupid to see it.
But i do agree, capitalism will never happen. We are too pathetic of a Country.

 

[pknopp]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

Where does this fit into capitalism?

Right at the point where GDP matters and our economy collapsing is more important than first principles?

GDP is largely government socialism. Subtract out the socialism used to prop up the markets and tell me what GDP is. We should have allowed it to collapse in 2008.

 

[Lesh]

LOL. It's funny how the definition of socialism shifts to suit your (right wing) argument.

On the one hand we are told that it is the ownership of the means of production. When it is pointed out that this is not what we have, it shifts to "well we are getting there" and when it is pointed out that the "we are getting there" is well short of that definition, we are told that "it's coming"

The cold hard fact is that the "pure definition" is no where on the horizon. The cold hard fact is that socialism, does not have a hard and fast line to be crossed. The cold hard fact is that we have BEEN a capitalist/socialist hybrid nation for over a century and most of us would want it to be no other way.

But politically it's an easy (and nonsensical) way to attack Democrats who are being both honest and reasonable in trying to figure what BALANCE of socialism and capitalism are required.

 

[Juicin]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

We have never been pure capitalist. And never will.

So there is nothing evil with programs that are socialist in nature like so many pretend.

Its regressive, so, yes.
Pure capitalism is actual progress. Not programs based off 12th century command economies.

There will never be pure capitalism because it wouldn't work.

IKR? The govt giving business pure control of how they run, the govt cant devalue the dollar with an out of control FED, free trade etc would be so fucking detrimental, right?

To those running the country yes it would be. They couldn't determine who could trade with who. The markets would collapse because it wasn't being propped up with the Federal Reserve.

I'm all for it. It's never going to happen. We are never going to go in that direction.

If we were capitalist, "those running the country" wouldnt be very needed..
Saying the markets would collapse is just something the statists say.
The FED is why our dollar is so weak. The FED hurts our poor and middle class more than just about anything. The FED brought us endless boom and bust cycles. The encourage deficit spending and they are blatantly unconstitutional. ESPECIALLY their actions.
The FED brought about most of the reasons people want "socialism" they are just too fucking stupid to see it.
But i do agree, capitalism will never happen. We are too pathetic of a Country.

Because of the fractional reserve system....Our economy is very capable of collapsing due to bank failure.

Even before fractional reserve it was capable of happening

Pre FDR we really were capitalists.....Still had crashes. The only way you avoid crashes is with the state forcing banks and any other "too big to fail" firms to act very conservatively .

Totally unrestrained markets are not going to lead to stability, it will add to volatility.

Gold standard or not the important part is restrictions on capital leveraging itself too much.

 

[pknopp]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

We have never been pure capitalist. And never will.

So there is nothing evil with programs that are socialist in nature like so many pretend.

Its regressive, so, yes.
Pure capitalism is actual progress. Not programs based off 12th century command economies.

There will never be pure capitalism because it wouldn't work.

IKR? The govt giving business pure control of how they run, the govt cant devalue the dollar with an out of control FED, free trade etc would be so fucking detrimental, right?

To those running the country yes it would be. They couldn't determine who could trade with who. The markets would collapse because it wasn't being propped up with the Federal Reserve.

I'm all for it. It's never going to happen. We are never going to go in that direction.

If we were capitalist, "those running the country" wouldnt be very needed..
Saying the markets would collapse is just something the statists say.
The FED is why our dollar is so weak. The FED hurts our poor and middle class more than just about anything. The FED brought us endless boom and bust cycles. The encourage deficit spending and they are blatantly unconstitutional. ESPECIALLY their actions.
The FED brought about most of the reasons people want "socialism" they are just too fucking stupid to see it.
But i do agree, capitalism will never happen. We are too pathetic of a Country.

I don't disagree. What I disagree with is all of that is Capitalism. It's not. We are not a capitalist nation.

 

[Juicin]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

Where does this fit into capitalism?

Right at the point where GDP matters and our economy collapsing is more important than first principles?

GDP is largely government socialism. Subtract out the socialism used to prop up the markets and tell me what GDP is. We should have allowed it to collapse in 2008.

GDP is a measure of macro economic power and size.....

That's it

We would bring the world down with us so relative to the rest of the planet we'd probably not be poorer...But you'd see a huge surge of wealth to the top end of people who took advantage of the depression.

your average joe needs economic stability to build his wealth.

 

[Lesh]

The FED is why our dollar is so weak. The FED hurts our poor and middle class more than just about anything. The FED brought us endless boom and bust cycles. The encourage deficit spending and they are blatantly unconstitutional. ESPECIALLY their actions.

Complete horse shit

The Fed does exactly the opposite

It PREVENTS the boom and bust cycles that devastated the poor and middle class for decades before it was set up.

We used to have a full on DEPRESSION about every decade. We have had only one since its inception and THAT was only at it's very beginning. even the 2008 Great Recession was not the Depression it could have been largely because of the Fed spending

 

[Juicin]

The FED is why our dollar is so weak. The FED hurts our poor and middle class more than just about anything. The FED brought us endless boom and bust cycles. The encourage deficit spending and they are blatantly unconstitutional. ESPECIALLY their actions.

Complete horse shit

The Fed does exactly the opposite

It PREVENTS the boom and bust cycles that devastated the poor and middle class for decades before it was set up.

We used to have a full on DEPRESSION about every decade. We have had only one since its inception and THAT was only at it's very beginning. even the 2008 Great Recession was not the Depression it could have been largely because of the Fed spending

No no no

Limits on capital leveraging itself and forcing banks to have reserves does that

The fractional reserve system allows capital to leverage itself many times what would have been possible without the fractional reserve system.

So if you put limits on the big players, yea it works that way and capital flows more freely and efficiently. But if you don't....You get 2008 and crashes still happen

Instead of a run on the banks in 1929 they're all holding shit mortgages leveraged to the hilt. Same problem, bankers being retards. Not our monetary policy

 

[Lesh]

I don't disagree. What I disagree with is all of that is Capitalism. It's not. We are not a capitalist nation.

That's foolish

Capitalism is the fuel that keeps the engine running.

Socialism is the oil that prevents that engine from seizing

 

[TNHarley]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

We have never been pure capitalist. And never will.

So there is nothing evil with programs that are socialist in nature like so many pretend.

Its regressive, so, yes.
Pure capitalism is actual progress. Not programs based off 12th century command economies.

There will never be pure capitalism because it wouldn't work.

IKR? The govt giving business pure control of how they run, the govt cant devalue the dollar with an out of control FED, free trade etc would be so fucking detrimental, right?

To those running the country yes it would be. They couldn't determine who could trade with who. The markets would collapse because it wasn't being propped up with the Federal Reserve.

I'm all for it. It's never going to happen. We are never going to go in that direction.

If we were capitalist, "those running the country" wouldnt be very needed..
Saying the markets would collapse is just something the statists say.
The FED is why our dollar is so weak. The FED hurts our poor and middle class more than just about anything. The FED brought us endless boom and bust cycles. The encourage deficit spending and they are blatantly unconstitutional. ESPECIALLY their actions.
The FED brought about most of the reasons people want "socialism" they are just too fucking stupid to see it.
But i do agree, capitalism will never happen. We are too pathetic of a Country.

Because of the fractional reserve system....Our economy is very capable of collapsing due to bank failure.

Even before fractional reserve it was capable of happening

Pre FDR we really were capitalists.....Still had crashes. The only way you avoid crashes is with the state forcing banks and any other "too big to fail" firms to act very conservatively .

Totally unrestrained markets are not going to lead to stability, it will add to volatility.

Gold standard or not the important part is restrictions on capital leveraging itself too much.

True enough.

 

[pknopp]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

Where does this fit into capitalism?

Right at the point where GDP matters and our economy collapsing is more important than first principles?

GDP is largely government socialism. Subtract out the socialism used to prop up the markets and tell me what GDP is. We should have allowed it to collapse in 2008.

GDP is a measure of macro economic power and size.....

That's it

We would bring the world down with us so relative to the rest of the planet we'd probably not be poorer...But you'd see a huge surge of wealth to the top end of people who took advantage of the depression.

your average joe needs economic stability to build his wealth.

The rich need massive government programs.

 

[pknopp]

I don't disagree. What I disagree with is all of that is Capitalism. It's not. We are not a capitalist nation.

That's foolish

Capitalism is the fuel that keeps the engine running.

Socialism is the oil that prevents that engine from seizing

You call it foolish but in the end you agree with me.

 

[Juicin]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

Where does this fit into capitalism?

Right at the point where GDP matters and our economy collapsing is more important than first principles?

GDP is largely government socialism. Subtract out the socialism used to prop up the markets and tell me what GDP is. We should have allowed it to collapse in 2008.

GDP is a measure of macro economic power and size.....

That's it

We would bring the world down with us so relative to the rest of the planet we'd probably not be poorer...But you'd see a huge surge of wealth to the top end of people who took advantage of the depression.

your average joe needs economic stability to build his wealth.

The rich need massive government programs.

The time to whine about how important the rich our to our economy is not the moment of a crash

*shrug*

if people want this shit to stop they need to piss on bankers before everything is about to collapse not as it's happening.

WHen the crash comes all leverage is gone you can't fuck them at the worst moment for the rest of society.

 

[Seawytch]

Tom Brady gets an almost 1 million dollar bail out from the taxpayers. The guy that gets 25 million a year to play football has to be saved by the taxpayers.

Tom Brady's Company TB12 Received More Than $960,000 PPP Loan

All while the working class took pay cuts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/1-in-3-workers-faced-pandemic-pay-cuts-but-recovery-is-uneven.html

We've known for a while that the grifter in chief rewards his friends. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[TNHarley]

The FED is why our dollar is so weak. The FED hurts our poor and middle class more than just about anything. The FED brought us endless boom and bust cycles. The encourage deficit spending and they are blatantly unconstitutional. ESPECIALLY their actions.

Complete horse shit

The Fed does exactly the opposite

It PREVENTS the boom and bust cycles that devastated the poor and middle class for decades before it was set up.

We used to have a full on DEPRESSION about every decade. We have had only one since its inception and THAT was only at it's very beginning. even the 2008 Great Recession was not the Depression it could have been largely because of the Fed spending

LOL what a fuckin load. We had one panic that resembled an actual depression and that lead to transition to an economy independent of Britain.
Most of the panics before the FED were driven by foreign failures and our own bank failures. Which, we havent learned from.

 

[pknopp]

Payroll, mortgage or rent, overhead... no pay back is required.
But the little people? We got 1200 to keep our mouths shut about our jobs being shut down and going insane locked in our houses. Those people that got the free loans? They can spend their lockdowns on their yachts or in another country.
This is just another transfer of wealth at the little peoples expense.

WHy do people keep calling them free loans? They do have an obligation to pay them back lol

Not if they use them as the guidelines state. If you use it to operate your business daily then you don't pay it back. Buy a yacht with it and then you pay 1%.

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

They are on the hook

Which is why it isn't a handout.

Banks have skin in the game

It's a handout and it's not the banks money.

They are on the hook

If a PPP loan is not forgiven in full (including if there has been a reduction in the forgiveness amount for an EIDL advance), any remaining balance due on the PPP loan must be repaid by the borrower. The lender is responsible for notifying the borrower of the loan forgiveness amount remitted by SBA and the date on which the borrower’s first loan payment is due. The lender must continue to service the loan. The borrower must repay the remaining loan balance by the maturity date of the PPP loan (either two or five years). If a borrower is determined to have been ineligible for a PPP loan for any reason, SBA may seek repayment of the outstanding PPP loan balance or pursue other available remedies.

Servicing the loan is part of the agreement

They have skin in the game, which is why it was never going to go to the people who needed it most. Just can't happen when your intermediary is a bank who cares about profit.

Yes, they get paid by the taxpayers to forgive the loans. All in all though, where do we find this kind of stuff in capitalism models?

They already got paid dumbass

Now it's time to keep their profits high

Not waste money on tracking down retards who can't figure out how to deal with the state and their loan.

"huh see they got paid they have no other concerns"

Not how massive banks work, lol

You didn't do anything to address my question but you felt a need to call me a name?

Yes mr pretends he's black i did

Where does this fit into capitalism?

Right at the point where GDP matters and our economy collapsing is more important than first principles?

GDP is largely government socialism. Subtract out the socialism used to prop up the markets and tell me what GDP is. We should have allowed it to collapse in 2008.

GDP is a measure of macro economic power and size.....

That's it

We would bring the world down with us so relative to the rest of the planet we'd probably not be poorer...But you'd see a huge surge of wealth to the top end of people who took advantage of the depression.

your average joe needs economic stability to build his wealth.

The rich need massive government programs.

The time to whine about how important the rich our to our economy is not the moment of a crash

*shrug*

if people want this shit to stop they need to piss on bankers before everything is about to collapse not as it's happening.

WHen the crash comes all leverage is gone you can't fuck them at the worst moment for the rest of society.

We should have let it crash in 2008. We would have been in much better shape today. The stock market is NOT the economy.