Teaching Slavery in School--Sensitivity v. Erasing History

[IM2]

Liberals are destroying everything about this country.

If the consensus now is that a white teacher cannot teach the import and beauty of the African-American Spiritual because she is white and that is cultural appropriation.....

I will be beyond words.

But I'm really hoping not even USMB will be that crazy

I believe if a white person accurately researches issues about blacks, then they are capable of speaking to issues or history in the black community. But most whites here running their mouths about black issues are inaccurate even to the point of lying. Then when a black person tries to provide accuracy they want to tell us how wrong we are when we are not. At that point they get told how they are white and really cannot tell blacks what we don't know about ourselves. Then they start saying what you did in your first paragraph.

The prime example of an inaccurate opinion about blacks made by a white person is this one:

The bad thing about the Negro Spirituals, is that the people that know them are all dying off and the youngers don't care to learn them.

That is simply not true. And I think I can say that without considering any dispute from whites in this forum.

We as black people have long known how spirituals were and are used. Kudos to you for learning that so thoroughly.

I don't know if I can speak to black "issues"--I don't know what it's like to be black. I don't know if the history of the African-American Spiritual is what I would call an "issue", as I think of an issue more like an ongoing problem. I think the history and import of the Spiritual is almost indisputable--sure, we can argue which ones are more prominent and details, but the fundamentals I don't see as being worth disputing. I guess that's why I don't have a problem presenting these songs and history to my students, and wish younger teachers didn't either. Because it's important to pass this on. In my humble opinion.

Given that black gospel has and continues to speak a message about issues in the black community... My thing about this forum is that there are far too many white bootleg experts on the black community. 99 percent of them have not taken the time you have to research areas of black life in this country while posting volumes of non factual racist vomit, then want to argue about how it's not vomit.

I think what you are doing is great but similarly I believe the same efforts should be taken to understand the messages sent in white spirituals that enabled and empowered racists to act.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Liberals are destroying everything about this country.

If the consensus now is that a white teacher cannot teach the import and beauty of the African-American Spiritual because she is white and that is cultural appropriation.....

I will be beyond words.

But I'm really hoping not even USMB will be that crazy

I believe if a white person accurately researches issues about blacks, then they are capable of speaking to issues or history in the black community. But most whites here running their mouths about black issues are inaccurate even to the point of lying. Then when a black person tries to provide accuracy they want to tell us how wrong we are when we are not. At that point they get told how they are white and really cannot tell blacks what we don't know about ourselves. Then they start saying what you did in your first paragraph.

The prime example of an inaccurate opinion about blacks made by a white person is this one:

The bad thing about the Negro Spirituals, is that the people that know them are all dying off and the youngers don't care to learn them.

That is simply not true. And I think I can say that without considering any dispute from whites in this forum.

We as black people have long known how spirituals were and are used. Kudos to you for learning that so thoroughly.

I don't know if I can speak to black "issues"--I don't know what it's like to be black. I don't know if the history of the African-American Spiritual is what I would call an "issue", as I think of an issue more like an ongoing problem. I think the history and import of the Spiritual is almost indisputable--sure, we can argue which ones are more prominent and details, but the fundamentals I don't see as being worth disputing. I guess that's why I don't have a problem presenting these songs and history to my students, and wish younger teachers didn't either. Because it's important to pass this on. In my humble opinion.

Given that black gospel has and continues to speak a message about issues in the black community... My thing about this forum is that there are far too many white bootleg experts on the black community. 99 percent of them have not taken the time you have to research areas of black life in this country while posting volumes of non factual racist vomit, then want to argue about how it's not vomit.

I think what you are doing is great but similarly I believe the same efforts should be taken to understand the messages sent in white spirituals that enabled and empowered racists to act.

What white spirituals enabled you to act, racist?

 

[IM2]

Liberals are destroying everything about this country.

If the consensus now is that a white teacher cannot teach the import and beauty of the African-American Spiritual because she is white and that is cultural appropriation.....

I will be beyond words.

But I'm really hoping not even USMB will be that crazy

I believe if a white person accurately researches issues about blacks, then they are capable of speaking to issues or history in the black community. But most whites here running their mouths about black issues are inaccurate even to the point of lying. Then when a black person tries to provide accuracy they want to tell us how wrong we are when we are not. At that point they get told how they are white and really cannot tell blacks what we don't know about ourselves. Then they start saying what you did in your first paragraph.

The prime example of an inaccurate opinion about blacks made by a white person is this one:

The bad thing about the Negro Spirituals, is that the people that know them are all dying off and the youngers don't care to learn them.

That is simply not true. And I think I can say that without considering any dispute from whites in this forum.

We as black people have long known how spirituals were and are used. Kudos to you for learning that so thoroughly.

I don't know if I can speak to black "issues"--I don't know what it's like to be black. I don't know if the history of the African-American Spiritual is what I would call an "issue", as I think of an issue more like an ongoing problem. I think the history and import of the Spiritual is almost indisputable--sure, we can argue which ones are more prominent and details, but the fundamentals I don't see as being worth disputing. I guess that's why I don't have a problem presenting these songs and history to my students, and wish younger teachers didn't either. Because it's important to pass this on. In my humble opinion.

Given that black gospel has and continues to speak a message about issues in the black community... My thing about this forum is that there are far too many white bootleg experts on the black community. 99 percent of them have not taken the time you have to research areas of black life in this country while posting volumes of non factual racist vomit, then want to argue about how it's not vomit.

I think what you are doing is great but similarly I believe the same efforts should be taken to understand the messages sent in white spirituals that enabled and empowered racists to act.

What white spirituals enabled you to act, racist?

You are the racist.

 

[Marion Morrison]

If the consensus now is that a white teacher cannot teach the import and beauty of the African-American Spiritual because she is white and that is cultural appropriation.....

I will be beyond words.

But I'm really hoping not even USMB will be that crazy

I believe if a white person accurately researches issues about blacks, then they are capable of speaking to issues or history in the black community. But most whites here running their mouths about black issues are inaccurate even to the point of lying. Then when a black person tries to provide accuracy they want to tell us how wrong we are when we are not. At that point they get told how they are white and really cannot tell blacks what we don't know about ourselves. Then they start saying what you did in your first paragraph.

The prime example of an inaccurate opinion about blacks made by a white person is this one:

The bad thing about the Negro Spirituals, is that the people that know them are all dying off and the youngers don't care to learn them.

That is simply not true. And I think I can say that without considering any dispute from whites in this forum.

We as black people have long known how spirituals were and are used. Kudos to you for learning that so thoroughly.

I don't know if I can speak to black "issues"--I don't know what it's like to be black. I don't know if the history of the African-American Spiritual is what I would call an "issue", as I think of an issue more like an ongoing problem. I think the history and import of the Spiritual is almost indisputable--sure, we can argue which ones are more prominent and details, but the fundamentals I don't see as being worth disputing. I guess that's why I don't have a problem presenting these songs and history to my students, and wish younger teachers didn't either. Because it's important to pass this on. In my humble opinion.

Given that black gospel has and continues to speak a message about issues in the black community... My thing about this forum is that there are far too many white bootleg experts on the black community. 99 percent of them have not taken the time you have to research areas of black life in this country while posting volumes of non factual racist vomit, then want to argue about how it's not vomit.

I think what you are doing is great but similarly I believe the same efforts should be taken to understand the messages sent in white spirituals that enabled and empowered racists to act.

What white spirituals enabled you to act, racist?

You are the racist.

Mmk, guy. Do you know any black spirituals?

 

[IM2]

I believe if a white person accurately researches issues about blacks, then they are capable of speaking to issues or history in the black community. But most whites here running their mouths about black issues are inaccurate even to the point of lying. Then when a black person tries to provide accuracy they want to tell us how wrong we are when we are not. At that point they get told how they are white and really cannot tell blacks what we don't know about ourselves. Then they start saying what you did in your first paragraph.

The prime example of an inaccurate opinion about blacks made by a white person is this one:

That is simply not true. And I think I can say that without considering any dispute from whites in this forum.

We as black people have long known how spirituals were and are used. Kudos to you for learning that so thoroughly.

I don't know if I can speak to black "issues"--I don't know what it's like to be black. I don't know if the history of the African-American Spiritual is what I would call an "issue", as I think of an issue more like an ongoing problem. I think the history and import of the Spiritual is almost indisputable--sure, we can argue which ones are more prominent and details, but the fundamentals I don't see as being worth disputing. I guess that's why I don't have a problem presenting these songs and history to my students, and wish younger teachers didn't either. Because it's important to pass this on. In my humble opinion.

Given that black gospel has and continues to speak a message about issues in the black community... My thing about this forum is that there are far too many white bootleg experts on the black community. 99 percent of them have not taken the time you have to research areas of black life in this country while posting volumes of non factual racist vomit, then want to argue about how it's not vomit.

I think what you are doing is great but similarly I believe the same efforts should be taken to understand the messages sent in white spirituals that enabled and empowered racists to act.

What white spirituals enabled you to act, racist?

You are the racist.

Mmk, guy. Do you know any black spirituals?

And here is an example of the white bootleg "expert" on blackness.

My father was a Baptist minister. My mom was choir director. Figure it out.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I don't know if I can speak to black "issues"--I don't know what it's like to be black. I don't know if the history of the African-American Spiritual is what I would call an "issue", as I think of an issue more like an ongoing problem. I think the history and import of the Spiritual is almost indisputable--sure, we can argue which ones are more prominent and details, but the fundamentals I don't see as being worth disputing. I guess that's why I don't have a problem presenting these songs and history to my students, and wish younger teachers didn't either. Because it's important to pass this on. In my humble opinion.

Given that black gospel has and continues to speak a message about issues in the black community... My thing about this forum is that there are far too many white bootleg experts on the black community. 99 percent of them have not taken the time you have to research areas of black life in this country while posting volumes of non factual racist vomit, then want to argue about how it's not vomit.

I think what you are doing is great but similarly I believe the same efforts should be taken to understand the messages sent in white spirituals that enabled and empowered racists to act.

What white spirituals enabled you to act, racist?

You are the racist.

Mmk, guy. Do you know any black spirituals?

And here is an example of the white bootleg "expert" on blackness.

My father was a Baptist minister. My mom was choir director. Figure it out.

That doesn't mean you learned anything.

 

[SweetSue92]

Since when was the public school system allowed to teach the truth?

~S~

Sparky guess who is trying to obfuscate the truth now, for fear of "cultural appropriation" and not being "culturally sensitive" and just fear in general?

Oh. Far Leftists, that's who.

Thankfully that remains a small minority still, however. We just have to stand strong in the midst of the few snowflakes who haven't completely melted down yet.

No Sue the far left is not doing that. Conservatives have been the one trying to alter textbooks and I think you need to understand what cultural appropriation actually is and why it has been an issue.

Cultural appropriation has been going on since the beginning of time. It's only really inappropriate when it's for outsized personal gain, ie, like when Elizabeth Warren does it.

 

[SweetSue92]

In my field there's debate about the line between being appropriately sensitive and erasing so much of our American history when it comes to teaching slave songs, African-American Spirituals, etc. I will weigh in fwiw and then I would value your thoughts.

A few schools have gotten dinged for having students sing the old slave song, "Pick a Bale of Cotton". I can understand this because the original lyrics were derogatory and the origins are uncertain--if it originated with slaves or slave owner. At any rate the original lyrics included the offensive "N" word at several points.

However.

I am a STRONG proponent of teaching kids African-American Spirituals for so many reasons. The primary one is: you cannot teach the history of popular American music without it. As I tell my students: if it weren't for the Spiritual, I don't know what you would be hearing on the radio right now, but it wouldn't be whatever you're listening to--unless you listen to bluegrass or classical music. The Spiritual was that pivotal in the development of everything that came after.

I think it's important that our students understand that, of all races and cultures. And the songs are exquisite. This clip shows how prominently the river Jordan features in Spirituals, how Spirituals popularized the backbeat into American music, and how tightly many slaves clung to music--how much it meant to them--when their lives were deeply difficult.



To wrap it up, my students leave elementary school (hopefully) understanding that Spirituals--not derogatory songs written ABOUT slaves but the songs of the slaves themselves--were songs of trial, tribulation, but also, great hope and clever coded messages. They know they built the foundation of American popular music.

I admit to being flummoxed as to why we'd want to bury this history for any of our students, even though the history is admittedly difficult, even tragic.

Teaching about slavery is important, since slaves have been around for many thousands of years. It probable was started during the tribal times and slave positions were filled by those you took in raids. I can not think of a Nation in History that did not have them. Slave are known as many names, apprentice is one used. What is important if how people become slaves. They lose their freedom because no laws
protect their freedoms and they no way of protecting themselves from Governments take freedom away.

I don't disagree with you and in fact have big issue with Leftists who want to pretend that America is the worst offender in this dept. But in case you can't pick this up from my avatar and the OP, I'm a music teacher. So I'm not going to veer WAAAAYYY off course in my classroom and teach the entire history of worldwide slavery, which would hardly be appropriate.

That excuse used by the right is bullshit. America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't. Furthermore it is documented that the system of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was the most oppressive ever. The statement by Stubbs is disingenuous and even if it was completely factual, every single one of those slaveholding societies were destroyed.

Now as you teach music, do you teach the messages sent in white spirituals?

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

 

[IM2]

In my field there's debate about the line between being appropriately sensitive and erasing so much of our American history when it comes to teaching slave songs, African-American Spirituals, etc. I will weigh in fwiw and then I would value your thoughts.

A few schools have gotten dinged for having students sing the old slave song, "Pick a Bale of Cotton". I can understand this because the original lyrics were derogatory and the origins are uncertain--if it originated with slaves or slave owner. At any rate the original lyrics included the offensive "N" word at several points.

However.

I am a STRONG proponent of teaching kids African-American Spirituals for so many reasons. The primary one is: you cannot teach the history of popular American music without it. As I tell my students: if it weren't for the Spiritual, I don't know what you would be hearing on the radio right now, but it wouldn't be whatever you're listening to--unless you listen to bluegrass or classical music. The Spiritual was that pivotal in the development of everything that came after.

I think it's important that our students understand that, of all races and cultures. And the songs are exquisite. This clip shows how prominently the river Jordan features in Spirituals, how Spirituals popularized the backbeat into American music, and how tightly many slaves clung to music--how much it meant to them--when their lives were deeply difficult.



To wrap it up, my students leave elementary school (hopefully) understanding that Spirituals--not derogatory songs written ABOUT slaves but the songs of the slaves themselves--were songs of trial, tribulation, but also, great hope and clever coded messages. They know they built the foundation of American popular music.

I admit to being flummoxed as to why we'd want to bury this history for any of our students, even though the history is admittedly difficult, even tragic.

Teaching about slavery is important, since slaves have been around for many thousands of years. It probable was started during the tribal times and slave positions were filled by those you took in raids. I can not think of a Nation in History that did not have them. Slave are known as many names, apprentice is one used. What is important if how people become slaves. They lose their freedom because no laws
protect their freedoms and they no way of protecting themselves from Governments take freedom away.

I don't disagree with you and in fact have big issue with Leftists who want to pretend that America is the worst offender in this dept. But in case you can't pick this up from my avatar and the OP, I'm a music teacher. So I'm not going to veer WAAAAYYY off course in my classroom and teach the entire history of worldwide slavery, which would hardly be appropriate.

That excuse used by the right is bullshit. America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't. Furthermore it is documented that the system of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was the most oppressive ever. The statement by Stubbs is disingenuous and even if it was completely factual, every single one of those slaveholding societies were destroyed.

Now as you teach music, do you teach the messages sent in white spirituals?

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

The British Empire is not where we live. You are teaching race issues when you teach what you do about black spirituals.

 

[IM2]

Since when was the public school system allowed to teach the truth?

~S~

Sparky guess who is trying to obfuscate the truth now, for fear of "cultural appropriation" and not being "culturally sensitive" and just fear in general?

Oh. Far Leftists, that's who.

Thankfully that remains a small minority still, however. We just have to stand strong in the midst of the few snowflakes who haven't completely melted down yet.

No Sue the far left is not doing that. Conservatives have been the one trying to alter textbooks and I think you need to understand what cultural appropriation actually is and why it has been an issue.

Cultural appropriation has been going on since the beginning of time. It's only really inappropriate when it's for outsized personal gain, ie, like when Elizabeth Warren does it.

Except Warren didn't do that.

 

[SweetSue92]

In my field there's debate about the line between being appropriately sensitive and erasing so much of our American history when it comes to teaching slave songs, African-American Spirituals, etc. I will weigh in fwiw and then I would value your thoughts.

A few schools have gotten dinged for having students sing the old slave song, "Pick a Bale of Cotton". I can understand this because the original lyrics were derogatory and the origins are uncertain--if it originated with slaves or slave owner. At any rate the original lyrics included the offensive "N" word at several points.

However.

I am a STRONG proponent of teaching kids African-American Spirituals for so many reasons. The primary one is: you cannot teach the history of popular American music without it. As I tell my students: if it weren't for the Spiritual, I don't know what you would be hearing on the radio right now, but it wouldn't be whatever you're listening to--unless you listen to bluegrass or classical music. The Spiritual was that pivotal in the development of everything that came after.

I think it's important that our students understand that, of all races and cultures. And the songs are exquisite. This clip shows how prominently the river Jordan features in Spirituals, how Spirituals popularized the backbeat into American music, and how tightly many slaves clung to music--how much it meant to them--when their lives were deeply difficult.



To wrap it up, my students leave elementary school (hopefully) understanding that Spirituals--not derogatory songs written ABOUT slaves but the songs of the slaves themselves--were songs of trial, tribulation, but also, great hope and clever coded messages. They know they built the foundation of American popular music.

I admit to being flummoxed as to why we'd want to bury this history for any of our students, even though the history is admittedly difficult, even tragic.

Teaching about slavery is important, since slaves have been around for many thousands of years. It probable was started during the tribal times and slave positions were filled by those you took in raids. I can not think of a Nation in History that did not have them. Slave are known as many names, apprentice is one used. What is important if how people become slaves. They lose their freedom because no laws
protect their freedoms and they no way of protecting themselves from Governments take freedom away.

I don't disagree with you and in fact have big issue with Leftists who want to pretend that America is the worst offender in this dept. But in case you can't pick this up from my avatar and the OP, I'm a music teacher. So I'm not going to veer WAAAAYYY off course in my classroom and teach the entire history of worldwide slavery, which would hardly be appropriate.

That excuse used by the right is bullshit. America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't. Furthermore it is documented that the system of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was the most oppressive ever. The statement by Stubbs is disingenuous and even if it was completely factual, every single one of those slaveholding societies were destroyed.

Now as you teach music, do you teach the messages sent in white spirituals?

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

The British Empire is not where we live. You are teaching race issues when you teach what you do about black spirituals.

I totally agree but you made a factually inaccurate statement so I corrected it.

 

[IM2]

Given that black gospel has and continues to speak a message about issues in the black community... My thing about this forum is that there are far too many white bootleg experts on the black community. 99 percent of them have not taken the time you have to research areas of black life in this country while posting volumes of non factual racist vomit, then want to argue about how it's not vomit.

I think what you are doing is great but similarly I believe the same efforts should be taken to understand the messages sent in white spirituals that enabled and empowered racists to act.

What white spirituals enabled you to act, racist?

You are the racist.

Mmk, guy. Do you know any black spirituals?

And here is an example of the white bootleg "expert" on blackness.

My father was a Baptist minister. My mom was choir director. Figure it out.

That doesn't mean you learned anything.

It does mean I know more than you.

 

[SweetSue92]

Since when was the public school system allowed to teach the truth?

~S~

Sparky guess who is trying to obfuscate the truth now, for fear of "cultural appropriation" and not being "culturally sensitive" and just fear in general?

Oh. Far Leftists, that's who.

Thankfully that remains a small minority still, however. We just have to stand strong in the midst of the few snowflakes who haven't completely melted down yet.

No Sue the far left is not doing that. Conservatives have been the one trying to alter textbooks and I think you need to understand what cultural appropriation actually is and why it has been an issue.

Cultural appropriation has been going on since the beginning of time. It's only really inappropriate when it's for outsized personal gain, ie, like when Elizabeth Warren does it.

Except Warren didn't do that.

Okay, without being an actual member of a tribe, nor with any actual documentation that she was Cherokee, she claimed membership as a Native-American minority for great personal gain. THAT is "cultural appropriation" in its purest and most lamentable form. All the rest of it is exactly what humans have been doing since the beginning of time: borrowing from each other. Some of it is beyond social norms and unseemly, but all of it is expected. Unless you're lying about who you are.

Another example of heinous cultural appropriation: Rachel Dolezal.

 

[IM2]

Teaching about slavery is important, since slaves have been around for many thousands of years. It probable was started during the tribal times and slave positions were filled by those you took in raids. I can not think of a Nation in History that did not have them. Slave are known as many names, apprentice is one used. What is important if how people become slaves. They lose their freedom because no laws
protect their freedoms and they no way of protecting themselves from Governments take freedom away.

I don't disagree with you and in fact have big issue with Leftists who want to pretend that America is the worst offender in this dept. But in case you can't pick this up from my avatar and the OP, I'm a music teacher. So I'm not going to veer WAAAAYYY off course in my classroom and teach the entire history of worldwide slavery, which would hardly be appropriate.

That excuse used by the right is bullshit. America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't. Furthermore it is documented that the system of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was the most oppressive ever. The statement by Stubbs is disingenuous and even if it was completely factual, every single one of those slaveholding societies were destroyed.

Now as you teach music, do you teach the messages sent in white spirituals?

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

The British Empire is not where we live. You are teaching race issues when you teach what you do about black spirituals.

I totally agree but you made a factually inaccurate statement so I corrected it.

There was nothing factually inaccurate about these words:

America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't.

And the British Empire is gone.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't disagree with you and in fact have big issue with Leftists who want to pretend that America is the worst offender in this dept. But in case you can't pick this up from my avatar and the OP, I'm a music teacher. So I'm not going to veer WAAAAYYY off course in my classroom and teach the entire history of worldwide slavery, which would hardly be appropriate.

That excuse used by the right is bullshit. America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't. Furthermore it is documented that the system of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was the most oppressive ever. The statement by Stubbs is disingenuous and even if it was completely factual, every single one of those slaveholding societies were destroyed.

Now as you teach music, do you teach the messages sent in white spirituals?

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

The British Empire is not where we live. You are teaching race issues when you teach what you do about black spirituals.

I totally agree but you made a factually inaccurate statement so I corrected it.

There was nothing factually inaccurate about these words:

America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't.

And the British Empire is gone.

K I don't know what your point is for the purposes of this thread. I'm not teaching that "this nation was founded on freedom and equity"....that's not what I teach. This thread is about what I teach.

 

[IM2]

Since when was the public school system allowed to teach the truth?

~S~

Sparky guess who is trying to obfuscate the truth now, for fear of "cultural appropriation" and not being "culturally sensitive" and just fear in general?

Oh. Far Leftists, that's who.

Thankfully that remains a small minority still, however. We just have to stand strong in the midst of the few snowflakes who haven't completely melted down yet.

No Sue the far left is not doing that. Conservatives have been the one trying to alter textbooks and I think you need to understand what cultural appropriation actually is and why it has been an issue.

Cultural appropriation has been going on since the beginning of time. It's only really inappropriate when it's for outsized personal gain, ie, like when Elizabeth Warren does it.

Except Warren didn't do that.

Okay, without being an actual member of a tribe, nor with any actual documentation that she was Cherokee, she claimed membership as a Native-American minority for great personal gain. THAT is "cultural appropriation" in its purest and most lamentable form. All the rest of it is exactly what humans have been doing since the beginning of time: borrowing from each other. Some of it is beyond social norms and unseemly, but all of it is expected. Unless you're lying about who you are.

Another example of heinous cultural appropriation: Rachel Dolezal.

She went by what her parents told her. And the people who hired her at Harvard have said they did not consider whatever her heritage was supposed to be. Whites made millions in the music industry appropriating black songs among the many things whites STOLE, not borrowed. But in good white racially biased fashion you mention Warren and Dolezal. I'm surprised you didn't add Jussie Smolette to that.

 

[SweetSue92]

Sparky guess who is trying to obfuscate the truth now, for fear of "cultural appropriation" and not being "culturally sensitive" and just fear in general?

Oh. Far Leftists, that's who.

Thankfully that remains a small minority still, however. We just have to stand strong in the midst of the few snowflakes who haven't completely melted down yet.

No Sue the far left is not doing that. Conservatives have been the one trying to alter textbooks and I think you need to understand what cultural appropriation actually is and why it has been an issue.

Cultural appropriation has been going on since the beginning of time. It's only really inappropriate when it's for outsized personal gain, ie, like when Elizabeth Warren does it.

Except Warren didn't do that.

Okay, without being an actual member of a tribe, nor with any actual documentation that she was Cherokee, she claimed membership as a Native-American minority for great personal gain. THAT is "cultural appropriation" in its purest and most lamentable form. All the rest of it is exactly what humans have been doing since the beginning of time: borrowing from each other. Some of it is beyond social norms and unseemly, but all of it is expected. Unless you're lying about who you are.

Another example of heinous cultural appropriation: Rachel Dolezal.

She went by what her parents told her. And the people who hired her at Harvard have said they did not consider whatever her heritage was supposed to be. Whites made millions in the music industry appropriating black songs among the many things whites STOLE, not borrowed. But in good white racially biased fashion you mention Warren and Dolezal. I'm surprised you didn't add Jussie Smolette to that.

How can you be offended that white people "stole" your music but not be offended that a white woman literally "stole" a black identity?

You realize that makes NO sense.

 

[IM2]

That excuse used by the right is bullshit. America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't. Furthermore it is documented that the system of slavery in the transatlantic slave trade was the most oppressive ever. The statement by Stubbs is disingenuous and even if it was completely factual, every single one of those slaveholding societies were destroyed.

Now as you teach music, do you teach the messages sent in white spirituals?

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

The British Empire is not where we live. You are teaching race issues when you teach what you do about black spirituals.

I totally agree but you made a factually inaccurate statement so I corrected it.

There was nothing factually inaccurate about these words:

America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't.

And the British Empire is gone.

K I don't know what your point is for the purposes of this thread. I'm not teaching that "this nation was founded on freedom and equity"....that's not what I teach. This thread is about what I teach.

Teaching Slavery in School--Sensitivity v. Erasing History

This is the title of your thread. Freedom and Equality has everything to do with it.

AMAZING GRACE

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I’m found, was blind, but now I see

‘Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear the hour I first believed

Through many dangers, toils and snares I have already come
‘Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home

The Lord has promised good to me; His word my hope secures
He will my shield and portion be as long as life endures

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail, and mortal life shall cease
I shall possess, within the veil, a life of joy and peace

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow, the sun forbear to shine
But God, who called me here below, will be forever mine

When we’ve been there ten thousands years, bright shining as the sun
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise than when we’d first begun

ALL GOD'S CHILLUN GOT WINGS

I got a robe, you got a robe
All o' God's chillun got a robe
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my robe
I'm goin' to shout all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n, Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to shout all ovah God's Heab'n

I got-a wings, you got-a wings
All o' God's chillun got-a wings
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my wings
I'm goin' to fly all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n, Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to fly all ovah God's Heab'n

I got a harp, you got a harp
All o' God's chillun got a harp
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to take up my harp
I'm goin' to play all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n , Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to play all ovah God's Heab'n

I got shoes, you got shoes
All o' God's chillun got shoes
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my shoes
I'm goin' to walk all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n , Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to walk all ovah God's Heab'n

BEAMS OF HEAVEN (SOME DAY)

Beams of heaven, as I go, / Through this wilderness below / Guide my feet in peaceful ways /
Turn my midnights into days / When in the darkness I would grope / Faith always sees a star
of hope / And soon from all life's grief and danger / I shall be free some day

I don't know how long 'twill be / Nor for what the future olds for me / But this I know, if
Jesus leads me / I shall get a home some day

Often times my sky is clear / Joy abounds without a tear / Though a day so bright begun /
Clouds may hide tomorrow's sun / There'll be a day that's always bright / A day that never
yields to night / And in its light the streets of glory / I shall behold some day

Harder yet may be the fight / Right may often yield to might / Wickedness awhile may reign /
Satan's cause may seem to gain / There is a God that rules above / With hand of power and
heart of love / If I am right, He'll fight my battle / I shall have peace some day

Burdens now may crush me down / Disappointments all around / Troubles speak in mournful
sigh / Sorrow through a tear stained eye / There is a world where pleasure reigns / No
mourning soul shall roam its plains / And to that land of peace and glory / I want to go some
day

BEFORE I’D BE A SLAVE (OH, FREEDOM)

Before I’d be a slave
I’d be buried in my grave
And go home to my Lord
And be saved

O, what preachin’!
O, what preachin’!
O, what preachin’ over me, over me

O, what mourning…

O, what singing…

O, what shouting…

O, weeping Mary…

Doubting Thomas…

O, what sighing

O, Freedom…

Songs about a better life after this one where there is no slavery and all are free and equal.

That's what those spirituals were all about.

 

[SweetSue92]

Umm. The British Empire was largely sustained on slavery right up until 1833 but okay.

No I do not teach the messages sent in white spirituals. You are asking me now to teach not music, but race issues. In elementary school. I briefly touch on this for MLK day but generally, no, I'm not going there with elementary school students. The African-American Spiritual had a profound effect on everything that came after, musically. White Spirituals did not.

The British Empire is not where we live. You are teaching race issues when you teach what you do about black spirituals.

I totally agree but you made a factually inaccurate statement so I corrected it.

There was nothing factually inaccurate about these words:

America has a constitution and generations of people who want to teach how this nation was founded on freedom and equality. But it wasn't.

And the British Empire is gone.

K I don't know what your point is for the purposes of this thread. I'm not teaching that "this nation was founded on freedom and equity"....that's not what I teach. This thread is about what I teach.

Teaching Slavery in School--Sensitivity v. Erasing History

This is the title of your thread. Freedom and Equality has everything to do with it.

AMAZING GRACE

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I’m found, was blind, but now I see

‘Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear the hour I first believed

Through many dangers, toils and snares I have already come
‘Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home

The Lord has promised good to me; His word my hope secures
He will my shield and portion be as long as life endures

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail, and mortal life shall cease
I shall possess, within the veil, a life of joy and peace

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow, the sun forbear to shine
But God, who called me here below, will be forever mine

When we’ve been there ten thousands years, bright shining as the sun
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise than when we’d first begun

ALL GOD'S CHILLUN GOT WINGS

I got a robe, you got a robe
All o' God's chillun got a robe
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my robe
I'm goin' to shout all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n, Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to shout all ovah God's Heab'n

I got-a wings, you got-a wings
All o' God's chillun got-a wings
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my wings
I'm goin' to fly all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n, Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to fly all ovah God's Heab'n

I got a harp, you got a harp
All o' God's chillun got a harp
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to take up my harp
I'm goin' to play all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n , Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to play all ovah God's Heab'n

I got shoes, you got shoes
All o' God's chillun got shoes
When I get to heab'n I'm goin' to put on my shoes
I'm goin' to walk all ovah God's Heab'n
Heab'n , Heab'n
Ev'rybody talkin' 'bout heab'n ain't goin' dere
Heab'n, Heab'n
I'm goin' to walk all ovah God's Heab'n

BEAMS OF HEAVEN (SOME DAY)

Beams of heaven, as I go, / Through this wilderness below / Guide my feet in peaceful ways /
Turn my midnights into days / When in the darkness I would grope / Faith always sees a star
of hope / And soon from all life's grief and danger / I shall be free some day

I don't know how long 'twill be / Nor for what the future olds for me / But this I know, if
Jesus leads me / I shall get a home some day

Often times my sky is clear / Joy abounds without a tear / Though a day so bright begun /
Clouds may hide tomorrow's sun / There'll be a day that's always bright / A day that never
yields to night / And in its light the streets of glory / I shall behold some day

Harder yet may be the fight / Right may often yield to might / Wickedness awhile may reign /
Satan's cause may seem to gain / There is a God that rules above / With hand of power and
heart of love / If I am right, He'll fight my battle / I shall have peace some day

Burdens now may crush me down / Disappointments all around / Troubles speak in mournful
sigh / Sorrow through a tear stained eye / There is a world where pleasure reigns / No
mourning soul shall roam its plains / And to that land of peace and glory / I want to go some
day

BEFORE I’D BE A SLAVE (OH, FREEDOM)

Before I’d be a slave
I’d be buried in my grave
And go home to my Lord
And be saved

O, what preachin’!
O, what preachin’!
O, what preachin’ over me, over me

O, what mourning…

O, what singing…

O, what shouting…

O, weeping Mary…

Doubting Thomas…

O, what sighing

O, Freedom…

Songs about a better life after this one where there is no slavery and all are free and equal.

That's what those spirituals were all about.

Freedom and equality are in the Spirituals. I'm not going to teach "that's what this nation was founded on" because that has nothing to do with music. ????

 

[IM2]

No Sue the far left is not doing that. Conservatives have been the one trying to alter textbooks and I think you need to understand what cultural appropriation actually is and why it has been an issue.

Cultural appropriation has been going on since the beginning of time. It's only really inappropriate when it's for outsized personal gain, ie, like when Elizabeth Warren does it.

Except Warren didn't do that.

Okay, without being an actual member of a tribe, nor with any actual documentation that she was Cherokee, she claimed membership as a Native-American minority for great personal gain. THAT is "cultural appropriation" in its purest and most lamentable form. All the rest of it is exactly what humans have been doing since the beginning of time: borrowing from each other. Some of it is beyond social norms and unseemly, but all of it is expected. Unless you're lying about who you are.

Another example of heinous cultural appropriation: Rachel Dolezal.

She went by what her parents told her. And the people who hired her at Harvard have said they did not consider whatever her heritage was supposed to be. Whites made millions in the music industry appropriating black songs among the many things whites STOLE, not borrowed. But in good white racially biased fashion you mention Warren and Dolezal. I'm surprised you didn't add Jussie Smolette to that.

How can you be offended that white people "stole" your music but not be offended that a white woman literally "stole" a black identity?

You realize that makes NO sense.

Who says I was not offended? Whites did steal black music. Ask Pat Boone.