Tesla Motors' Success Gives Electric Car Market a Charge

[Old Rocks]

The energy equation for EVs is far less favorable than the one for gas powered vehicles.

Says who? Links please.

Electric Vehicle Efficiency Analysis

EV Emissions aka The Long Tailpipe

EVs have no tail pipe and emit no polluting gasses when driven, but they do increase load on the grid, which in turn causes more emissions at polluting power plants. This is often called the long tailpipe. How much comes out of that tailpipe depends on how the power plant is fueled.

The most interesting question for US consumers considering an EV purchase is how much pollution is created by electric production in the US. A 2007 Department of Energy study found two interesting results.

In 2007, a DOE-sponsored analysis (PDF) found that there is enough excess off-peak capacity in today's electrical grid to power the conversion of "up to 84% of U.S. cars, pickup trucks, and sport utility vehicles (SUVs)" to plug-in hybrids with a 33-mile pure electric range. That's about 200 million vehicles. So, we don't need to build any new power plants to handle many years of EV production.

That same study found that under that scenario overall greenhouse emissions would decrease by up to 27%. Emissions of volatile organic gases and carbon monoxide would drop over 90%. Without improving generation technology, particulate and SOx emissions would increase, but we have a lot of time to solve that problem. It's a lot easier to solve a pollution problem at a few hundred power plants than it is with hundreds of millions of tailpipes

 

[Old Rocks]

Tesla Motors' Success Gives Electric Car Market a Charge
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Tesla Motors' Success Gives Electric Car Market a Charge


Workers celebrate the completion of the first Tesla Model S cars at a factory in Fremont, California.

Photograph by Paul Sakuma, AP


Josie Garthwaite

for National Geographic

Published May 21, 2013

Tesla Motors, the Silicon Valley electric carmaker, is riding high. The company reported its first ever quarterly profit this month and saw its stock price shoot upwards of $97 per share—an all-time high. At more than $10 billion, the company's market value is now greater than that of established automakers Fiat and Mitsubishi Motors.

And for icing on the cake, Tesla's first made-from-scratch car, the electric Model S sedan, has received a rare near-perfect score from Consumer Reports. Noting the difficulty of starting a successful auto company, evoltven Bill Ford, the executive chairman of Ford Motor Co., commented, "My hat's off to them."

The company is preparing to take advantage of its popularity on Wall Street by raising an estimated $648 million by selling a combination of shares and debt-like securities, to be repaid in 2018. Tesla CEO Elon Musk is set to personally purchase $100 million of shares in the offering. Tesla will curry public favor by using part of the proceeds to prepay some of the $465 million U.S. government loan that helped establish manufacturing of the Model S.

GOOD GOING TELSA MOTORS! Keep leading the way to clean electric cars!!! The loan program worked out wonderfully and the Obama admin has chosen right!

Telsa x next year should be even better. 300 miles? Pretty good. Now we just have to get that charging time down and get private corporations to build charge stations=success.

We republicans should get on board.

It doesn't matter since china controls 15 of the 17 rare earth metals..attrition by numbers. Rare earth metals that are part of the process of electric motors, etc/

Bullshit. You have not been following the news lately.

Japan Finds Mother Lode Of Rare Earth Metals Far Off Tokyo Coast (VIDEO) : News : Nature World News

Significant deposits of rare earth metals discovered off the coast of Japan may prove to be an industrial game-changer in the face of China's monopoly on the elements, which are vital to high-tech industries, a new report by the Telegraph stated.

"We have found deposits that are just two to four meters from the seabed surface at higher concentrations than anybody ever thought existed, and it won't cost much at all to extract," said professor Yasuhiro Kato from Tokyo University, the leader of the team that made the discovery, according to the Telegraph.

Rare earth metals, or rare earth elements, are a set of 17 chemical elements on the periodic table, specifically the lanthanide group plus scandium and yttrium

 

[Old Rocks]

So one success out of how many failures?

How much money has Obama wasted with this program? How much of that money has done nothing but line the pockets of his contributors?

Must be pretty shitty living the life of a conservative, never trying because they equate failure with failure, ignoring the fact that if you never fail, you will never succeed, and that there is no success without failure.

If we followed the conservative mindset, avoid failure at all costs, we'd have never had any innovation or discovery at all.

"If at first you don't succeed, quit and never try it again."

Oh please you just described liberals....for every failure they propose a govt program to stop it.......they still dont understand why people get laid off or businesses go under

Lordy, lordy, you dingbats just cannot stand the idea of our being successful. You are so much into the meme that anything the government does is bad that you wish failure for our nation. And yet you claim the mantle of Patriot. What fools and charatans you are.

 

[Redfish]

I have a few questions for you electric car lovers:

1. how long can it run on a charge?
a. with the AC on
b. with the heater on
c. with the radio on
2. how many KW hours to recharge it and how much does that cost in $ ?
3. how many recharging stations are on any interstate hwy?
4. how much does it cost to buy?
5. how much to replace the batteries?
6. where will we dispose of the batteries since they are hazardous waste?
7. compare the total cost for driving 500 miles in this to the cost of driving 500 miles in a standard car? note. I said TOTAL cost.

New technology is great and we should always be looking for better methods of transportation. But until one of you can show me how to power an 18 wheeler across the country using something other than oil, this is all just playing.

 

[Redfish]

Must be pretty shitty living the life of a conservative, never trying because they equate failure with failure, ignoring the fact that if you never fail, you will never succeed, and that there is no success without failure.

If we followed the conservative mindset, avoid failure at all costs, we'd have never had any innovation or discovery at all.

"If at first you don't succeed, quit and never try it again."

Oh please you just described liberals....for every failure they propose a govt program to stop it.......they still dont understand why people get laid off or businesses go under

Lordy, lordy, you dingbats just cannot stand the idea of our being successful. You are so much into the meme that anything the government does is bad that you wish failure for our nation. And yet you claim the mantle of Patriot. What fools and charatans you are.

Did the following have government grants? Ford, Edison, Bell, Gates, Jobs, or the Wright brothers?

Private enterprise and the profit motive is where new ideas come from, not govt largess. Thats the point that you libs seem incapable of grasping.

Get the govt out of the lives of inventors and businessmen and watch the new ideas come to reality---------see my sig

 

[Old Rocks]

Ayn Rand, eh. Stupidity and cupidity cubed.

Let us consider what has had government grants or loans. The Corps of Discovery. The Transcontinental Railroad. The electric grid that this nation runs on. Most of the large dams that help power that grid. The airplane industry. And on and on. Granted, there have been some major failures. However, the successes so far outweigh the failures as to make the kind of nonsense you spout completely irrelevant.

 

[Old Rocks]

I have a few questions for you electric car lovers:

1. how long can it run on a charge?
a. with the AC on
b. with the heater on
c. with the radio on
2. how many KW hours to recharge it and how much does that cost in $ ?
3. how many recharging stations are on any interstate hwy?
4. how much does it cost to buy?
5. how much to replace the batteries?
6. where will we dispose of the batteries since they are hazardous waste?
7. compare the total cost for driving 500 miles in this to the cost of driving 500 miles in a standard car? note. I said TOTAL cost.

New technology is great and we should always be looking for better methods of transportation. But until one of you can show me how to power an 18 wheeler across the country using something other than oil, this is all just playing.

LOL. You are totally full of shit. The EV is on a roll, and as the batteries improve, will take over the market in the form of pure EV's and hybrids. Already, Freightliner is producing hybrid trucks.

There is just no way that people like you can admit that our government helped start a winner, in spite of the Transcontinental Railroad and the Corps of Discovery.

 

[Redfish]

Ayn Rand, eh. Stupidity and cupidity cubed.

Let us consider what has had government grants or loans. The Corps of Discovery. The Transcontinental Railroad. The electric grid that this nation runs on. Most of the large dams that help power that grid. The airplane industry. And on and on. Granted, there have been some major failures. However, the successes so far outweigh the failures as to make the kind of nonsense you spout completely irrelevant.

why didn't you answer my questions? because the answers would make your whole idea look stupid?

Rand was right, she accurately predicted where the USA was going as liberalism took over.

The railroads would have been developed with private money, many were. the electric grid is not owned by the federal govt and was funded mostly by private of state utilities, TVA was a govt program, and last time I checked it was still in the red.

The government does not do anything efficiently or smartly. you libs constantly complain about the defense dept being inept and overly expensive----well, there is the #1 govt program. How about the IRS? social security? medicare?

 

[Redfish]

I have a few questions for you electric car lovers:

1. how long can it run on a charge?
a. with the AC on
b. with the heater on
c. with the radio on
2. how many KW hours to recharge it and how much does that cost in $ ?
3. how many recharging stations are on any interstate hwy?
4. how much does it cost to buy?
5. how much to replace the batteries?
6. where will we dispose of the batteries since they are hazardous waste?
7. compare the total cost for driving 500 miles in this to the cost of driving 500 miles in a standard car? note. I said TOTAL cost.

New technology is great and we should always be looking for better methods of transportation. But until one of you can show me how to power an 18 wheeler across the country using something other than oil, this is all just playing.

LOL. You are totally full of shit. The EV is on a roll, and as the batteries improve, will take over the market in the form of pure EV's and hybrids. Already, Freightliner is producing hybrid trucks.

There is just no way that people like you can admit that our government helped start a winner, in spite of the Transcontinental Railroad and the Corps of Discovery.

still waiting for you to answer my 7 valid questions. Did the govt develop the Prius? Did the govt come up with the idea to run buses on natural gas or propane? NO, private industry did those things when the technology reached the point where it was profitable.

WTF is the corps of discovery?

 

[Redfish]

OK, old rocks. Here's my challenge to you

lets say that a gas powered car can go 400 miles on 20 gallons of gas and gas costs $3/gal. OK? that means you can go 400 miles for $60 dollars. Ok so far?

Now, you tell me how many charges your electric will need to go 400 miles and, using current electric rates, how much you will spend to go 400 miles.

you don't even need to include the motel charges since you need a couple overnight charges to go that far.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh yes, Rand was right, so far right that she was out there with the National Socialists.

Social Security is one of the best programs ever developed, and a boon to all working people. An idea that people like you cannot accept. You would rather the working people of this nation just die when they hit the age they can no longer work.

So you think this nation is down the tube. So why don't you go somewhere that is your ideal, like, say, Somalia? No regulations or rules. You should do very well there. For about the five minutes that would be your life expectancy.

 

[Old Rocks]

I have a few questions for you electric car lovers:

1. how long can it run on a charge?
a. with the AC on
b. with the heater on
c. with the radio on
2. how many KW hours to recharge it and how much does that cost in $ ?
3. how many recharging stations are on any interstate hwy?
4. how much does it cost to buy?
5. how much to replace the batteries?
6. where will we dispose of the batteries since they are hazardous waste?
7. compare the total cost for driving 500 miles in this to the cost of driving 500 miles in a standard car? note. I said TOTAL cost.

New technology is great and we should always be looking for better methods of transportation. But until one of you can show me how to power an 18 wheeler across the country using something other than oil, this is all just playing.

LOL. You are totally full of shit. The EV is on a roll, and as the batteries improve, will take over the market in the form of pure EV's and hybrids. Already, Freightliner is producing hybrid trucks.

There is just no way that people like you can admit that our government helped start a winner, in spite of the Transcontinental Railroad and the Corps of Discovery.

still waiting for you to answer my 7 valid questions. Did the govt develop the Prius? Did the govt come up with the idea to run buses on natural gas or propane? NO, private industry did those things when the technology reached the point where it was profitable.

WTF is the corps of discovery?

Look it up, you dumb ass. When you know a minimal amount about the history of this nation, then you can talk to adults.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, old rocks. Here's my challenge to you

lets say that a gas powered car can go 400 miles on 20 gallons of gas and gas costs $3/gal. OK? that means you can go 400 miles for $60 dollars. Ok so far?

Now, you tell me how many charges your electric will need to go 400 miles and, using current electric rates, how much you will spend to go 400 miles.

you don't even need to include the motel charges since you need a couple overnight charges to go that far.

Electric Vehicle Efficiency Analysis

Energy Efficiency

According to the EPA energy efficiency sticker shipping with early production models of the Tesla Roadster, the Tesla Roadster is rated at 32 kilowatt hours (kWh) per 100 miles for city driving and 33 for highway. We have measured the actual efficiency we get driving a 2008 Tesla Roadster (produced in early 2009) and our 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV by measuring energy into each vehicle (in kilowatt-hours) using a dedicated electric meter on each charger and dividing by the number of miles driven in each vehicle, averaging over hundreds of miles of mixed city/highway driving. The Roadster comes in around 33 kWh per 100 miles and the RAV4-EV at 32 kWh per 100 miles. We will therefore pick 32.5 kWh per 100 miles as a reasonable estimate of real-world EV efficiency.

If you burn gasoline completely under perfect conditions, it generates energy in the form of heat equivalent to about 36.4 kWh per gallon. So an EV requires the energy equivalent of about 0.89 gallons of gas to go 100 miles, or about 112 miles per gallon equivalent.

The Tesla S can go about 250+ on a single charge. Using one of the fast chargers, it can take an 80% charge in about an hour. And Elon Musk is in the process of placing these chargers on major routes across the nation.

Of course, you could have used that thing you have been posting on to learn all of this for yourself. But people like you are inherently lazy.

Elon Musk TED Talk (Video)

 

[Redfish]

Oh yes, Rand was right, so far right that she was out there with the National Socialists.

Social Security is one of the best programs ever developed, and a boon to all working people. An idea that people like you cannot accept. You would rather the working people of this nation just die when they hit the age they can no longer work.

So you think this nation is down the tube. So why don't you go somewhere that is your ideal, like, say, Somalia? No regulations or rules. You should do very well there. For about the five minutes that would be your life expectancy.

I never said that social security was not a good program. I am glad to get my check every month---after all the govt took the money out of my paychecks for over 40 years without my permission to fund the program.

currently SS is going broke, but the fix is easy, collect FICA on all income not just the first 110K.

I said that our nation is going broke because of liberal overspending, we cannot continue to spend more every year than we collect. BALANCE THE BUDGET.

 

[DiamondDave]

Good for Tesla.. they are doing some great things...

I can't see paying 100K for a car that will only depreciate in value... and most people in this country cannot afford this vehicle... but they are indeed a success story...

Unfortunately the affordable and practical electric car is still a ways off.. and no, don't give me anything about the taxpayer funded failure known as the Volt.. LOL

 

[Wyatt earp]

OK, old rocks. Here's my challenge to you

lets say that a gas powered car can go 400 miles on 20 gallons of gas and gas costs $3/gal. OK? that means you can go 400 miles for $60 dollars. Ok so far?

Now, you tell me how many charges your electric will need to go 400 miles and, using current electric rates, how much you will spend to go 400 miles.

you don't even need to include the motel charges since you need a couple overnight charges to go that far.

It cant be answerd as of today, not until all states start taxing drivers per mile, to make up for the lost taxes on fuel sales.

 

[Redfish]

OK, old rocks. Here's my challenge to you

lets say that a gas powered car can go 400 miles on 20 gallons of gas and gas costs $3/gal. OK? that means you can go 400 miles for $60 dollars. Ok so far?

Now, you tell me how many charges your electric will need to go 400 miles and, using current electric rates, how much you will spend to go 400 miles.

you don't even need to include the motel charges since you need a couple overnight charges to go that far.

Electric Vehicle Efficiency Analysis

Energy Efficiency

According to the EPA energy efficiency sticker shipping with early production models of the Tesla Roadster, the Tesla Roadster is rated at 32 kilowatt hours (kWh) per 100 miles for city driving and 33 for highway. We have measured the actual efficiency we get driving a 2008 Tesla Roadster (produced in early 2009) and our 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV by measuring energy into each vehicle (in kilowatt-hours) using a dedicated electric meter on each charger and dividing by the number of miles driven in each vehicle, averaging over hundreds of miles of mixed city/highway driving. The Roadster comes in around 33 kWh per 100 miles and the RAV4-EV at 32 kWh per 100 miles. We will therefore pick 32.5 kWh per 100 miles as a reasonable estimate of real-world EV efficiency.

If you burn gasoline completely under perfect conditions, it generates energy in the form of heat equivalent to about 36.4 kWh per gallon. So an EV requires the energy equivalent of about 0.89 gallons of gas to go 100 miles, or about 112 miles per gallon equivalent.

The Tesla S can go about 250+ on a single charge. Using one of the fast chargers, it can take an 80% charge in about an hour. And Elon Musk is in the process of placing these chargers on major routes across the nation.

Of course, you could have used that thing you have been posting on to learn all of this for yourself. But people like you are inherently lazy.

Elon Musk TED Talk (Video)

I actually did look it up. what they did not say is whether the AC or heater was running and what that would do to the calculations.

you do realize that running a car AC on a 90 degree day or the heater on a 25 degree day takes a lot of electricity don't you?

But even if it comes out about equal, the EV costs a lot more to buy and to make my 400 mile trip you would have to sit for an hour at the charging station after going a little over half way.

I would love for you to be right, but with current technology the math just does not work.

 

[Old Rocks]

On the contrary, that is Elon Musk's next project, the Tesla X. That man has a real reputation for bringing far out dreams to fruitation. Space X, Solar City, and Tesla Motors. All major success stories in spite of the odds in each market.

So I would expect to see the Tesla X within five years, an EV within the budget of the middle class.

 

[Redfish]

OK, old rocks. Here's my challenge to you

lets say that a gas powered car can go 400 miles on 20 gallons of gas and gas costs $3/gal. OK? that means you can go 400 miles for $60 dollars. Ok so far?

Now, you tell me how many charges your electric will need to go 400 miles and, using current electric rates, how much you will spend to go 400 miles.

you don't even need to include the motel charges since you need a couple overnight charges to go that far.

It cant be answerd as of today, not until all states start taxing drivers per mile, to make up for the lost taxes on fuel sales.

OH, so the answer is to tax people more

 

[DiamondDave]

On the contrary, that is Elon Musk's next project, the Tesla X. That man has a real reputation for bringing far out dreams to fruitation. Space X, Solar City, and Tesla Motors. All major success stories in spite of the odds in each market.

So I would expect to see the Tesla X within five years, an EV within the budget of the middle class.

Yeah.. I would bet dollars to donuts that we are more than 5 years away from not only an electric car that is in the budget for the middle class (and that is not tax subsidized) but also practical in terms of range, speed, capacity, etc