Thanksgiving: The rest of the story

[NYcarbineer]

By the OP's logic, the Indians should have never helped the colonists, because helping the poor and needy just encourages them to stay poor and needy.

Yet another liberal who can't reply to what I said, so he makes up something I didn't say, attributes it to me, and tries to bash me for that instead.

Is there any part of liberal "argument" that doesn't involve heavy lying and misrepresentation?

No wonder they lost.

So you wholeheartedly support our programs to help the poor, aka the welfare state, and don't think it does any harm?

Really?

 

[Unkotare]

They were fleeing political persecution, the way the Pilgrims ran the govt. after the execution of the king, they were tyrants...

They weren't fleeing anything.

yet needed a charter to leave, so they must have been leaving for some reason...

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

Not that simple.

 

[Disir]

They weren't fleeing anything.

yet needed a charter to leave, so they must have been leaving for some reason...

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

Not that simple.

You see our starting point, right?

 

[DOTR]

For simpletons...it is very simple...America bad

 

[Disir]

For simpletons...it is very simple...America bad

No where in any of my posts did you see me post anything remotely close to America is bad.

 

[Unkotare]

yet needed a charter to leave, so they must have been leaving for some reason...

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

Not that simple.

You see our starting point, right?

Apparently, it's you trying to simplify something that is not.

 

[Disir]

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

Not that simple.

You see our starting point, right?

Apparently, it's you trying to simplify something that is not.

Bring it.

 

[Little-Acorn]

By the OP's logic, the Indians should have never helped the colonists, because helping the poor and needy just encourages them to stay poor and needy.

Yet another liberal who can't reply to what I said, so he makes up something I didn't say, attributes it to me, and tries to bash me for that instead.

Is there any part of liberal "argument" that doesn't involve heavy lying and misrepresentation?

No wonder they lost.

So you wholeheartedly support our programs to help the poor, aka the welfare state, and don't think it does any harm?

Really?

Still lying and losing, I see.

 

[DOTR]

For simpletons...it is very simple...America bad

No where in any of my posts did you see me post anything remotely close to America is bad.

I havent spent much time with your posts. Seen one liberal scumbag seen em all. Your hatred for anything not "other" is palpable. You are basically a third worlder stuck in a the remnants of a the creator of the first world.

 

[DOTR]

Lets replicate the first Thanksgiving atmosphere...

""Inasmuch as the great Father has given us this year an abundant harvest of Indian corn, wheat, peas, beans, squashes, and garden vegetables, and has made the forests to abound with game and the sea with fish and clams, and inasmuch as he has protected us from the ravages of the savages, has spared us from pestilence and disease, has granted us freedom to worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience. Now I, your magistrate, do proclaim that all ye Pilgrims, with your wives and ye little ones, do gather at ye meeting house, on ye hill, between the hours of 9 and 12 in the day time, on Thursday, November 29th, of the year of our Lord one thousand six hundred and twenty-three and the third year since ye Pilgrims landed on ye Pilgrim Rock, there to listen to ye pastor and render thanksgiving to ye Almighty God for all His blessings." W Bradford 1623

 

[anotherlife]

Happy Thanksgiving America!

 

[DOTR]

You cant go wrong understanding Thankgiving if you read what our first President thought it was about...

"By the President of the United States of America, a Proclamation.

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.

Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be-- That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war--for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us.

and also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other transgressions-- to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually--to render our national government a blessing to all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed--to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord--To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease of science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand at the City of New York the third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789."

Go: Washington

 

[DOTR]

The Continental Congress desired the same thing...the one and only reason for Thanksgiving in America...

"IN CONGRESS November 1, 1777 FORASMUCH as it is the indispensable Duty of all Men to adore the superintending Providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with Gratitude their Obligation to him for Benefits received, and to implore such farther Blessings as they stand in Need of: And it having pleased him in his abundant Mercy, not only to continue to us the innumerable Bounties of his common Providence; but also to smile upon us in the Prosecution of a just and necessary War, for the Defense and Establishment of our unalienable Rights and Liberties; particularly in that he hath been pleased, in so great a Measure, to prosper the Means used for the Support of our Troops, and to crown our Arms with most signal success: It is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive Powers of these UNITED STATES to set apart THURSDAY, the eighteenth Day of December next, for SOLEMN THANKSGIVING and PRAISE: That at one Time and with one Voice, the good People may express the grateful Feelings of their Hearts, and consecrate themselves to the Service of their Divine Benefactor; and that, together with their sincere Acknowledgments and Offerings, they may join the penitent Confession of their manifold Sins, whereby they had forfeited every Favor; and their humble and earnest Supplication that it may please GOD through the Merits of JESUS CHRIST, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of Remembrance; That it may please him graciously to afford his Blessing on the Governments of these States respectively, and prosper the public Council of the whole: To inspire our Commanders, both by Land and Sea, and all under them, with that Wisdom and Fortitude which may render them fit Instruments, under the Providence of Almighty GOD, to secure for these United States, the greatest of all human Blessings, INDEPENDENCE and PEACE: That it may please him, to prosper the Trade and Manufactures of the People, and the Labor of the Husbandman, that our Land may yield its Increase: To take Schools and Seminaries of Education, so necessary for cultivating the Principles of true Liberty, Virtue and Piety, under his nurturing Hand; and to prosper the Means of Religion, for the promotion and enlargement of that Kingdom, which consisteth "in Righteousness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost." And it is further recommended, That servile Labor, and such Recreation, as, though at other Times innocent, may be unbecoming the Purpose of this Appointment, be omitted on so solemn an Occasion."

 

[DOTR]

Abraham Lincoln was confused about some things but about Thanksgiving he knew the reason beyond any doubt....

"I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility and Union."

 

[DOTR]

Not all were in the distant past of course.

"I , Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do set aside and appoint Thursday, the thirtieth day of November 1933, to be a Day of Thanksgiving for all our people. May we on that day in our churches and in our homes give humble thanks for the blessings bestowed upon us during the year past by Almighty God."

 

[DOTR]

Before I leave the subject...I was wondering if I could get some more atheists to give advice on what Christianity really is? For some reason I have never seen one who wasn't an expert on this one particular religion.

 

[Disir]

For simpletons...it is very simple...America bad

No where in any of my posts did you see me post anything remotely close to America is bad.

I havent spent much time with your posts. Seen one liberal scumbag seen em all. Your hatred for anything not "other" is palpable. You are basically a third worlder stuck in a the remnants of a the creator of the first world.

View attachment 99770

You sound like a Democrat to me. Your MO is either believe as I do or your racist.

 

[DOTR]

For simpletons...it is very simple...America bad

No where in any of my posts did you see me post anything remotely close to America is bad.

I havent spent much time with your posts. Seen one liberal scumbag seen em all. Your hatred for anything not "other" is palpable. You are basically a third worlder stuck in a the remnants of a the creator of the first world.

View attachment 99770

You sound like a Democrat to me. Your MO is either believe as I do or your racist.

I dont believe I have ever stated my political affiliation. Believe as you like.

 

[edthecynic]

The settlers shared their bounty with the natives after they got their act together. So all prospered!

Again that is the obvious lie, and you missed it again.

An obvious lie because some idiot on the net doesn't like the truth that rubs his religion the wrong way?

No, an obvious lie because someone knows the dates of historical events and you obviously don't.

The Racist Right can't have a non white non Christian do anything good and helpful to white Christians, so your MessiahRushie fabricated a way to attack Socialism and praise "biblical" Capitalism by claiming the Pilgrims were thanking God for the bounty of Capitalism.
Now in order for your Limbaugh lie to work you need time for Socialism to have failed harvests before the bountiful Capitalistic harvest. Thus in your OP the actual 1621 First Thanksgiving was moved in your revisionist history lie to 1623.

You puked all over yourself. Again.

Pilgrim Hall Museum - About the Pilgrims - The "First Thanksgiving" at Plymouth
The Pilgrims did not call this harvest festival a "Thanksgiving," although they did give thanks to God. To them, a Day of Thanksgiving was purely religious. The first recorded religious Day of Thanksgiving was held in 1623 in response to a providential rainfall.

Not a credible source, but you knew that already.

First Thanksgiving Meal - Thanksgiving - HISTORY.com

The holiday feast dates back to November 1621, when the newly arrived Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Indians gathered at Plymouth for an autumn harvest celebration, an event regarded as America’s “first Thanksgiving.”

The 1621 Thanksgiving celebration marked the Pilgrims’ first autumn harvest, so it is likely that the colonists feasted on the bounty they had reaped with the help of their Native American neighbors. Local vegetables that likely appeared on the table include onions, beans, lettuce, spinach, cabbage, carrots and perhaps peas. Corn, which records show was plentiful at the first harvest, might also have been served, but not in the way most people enjoy it now. In those days, the corn would have been removed from the cob and turned into cornmeal, which was then boiled and pounded into a thick corn mush or porridge that was occasionally sweetened with molasses.

Fruits indigenous to the region included blueberries, plums, grapes, gooseberries, raspberries and, of course cranberries, which Native Americans ate and used as a natural dye.

What We Really Know About the First Thanksgiving

Much is unknown about the first recorded feast between the Pilgrims and Native Americans in the New World at Plymouth in 1621, as historians have heavily relied on only two primary eyewitness accounts. But while a good meal is a constant, it’s clear that the original festival doesn’t have all that much in common with the all-American holiday recognized today, with its focus on football and, more recently, shopping.


Here are five things we know about the first Thanksgiving:

1. More than 100 people attended
The Wampanoag Indians who attended the first Thanksgiving had occupied the land for thousands of years and were key to the survival of the colonists during the first year they arrived in 1620, according to the National Museum of the American Indian. After the Pilgrims successfully harvested their first crops in autumn 1621, at least 140 people gathered to eat and partake in games, historians say. No one knows exactly what prompted the two groups to dine together, but there were at least 90 native men and 50 Englishmen present, according to Kathleen Wall, a colonial foodways culinarian at Plimoth Plantation. They most likely ran races and shot at marks as forms of entertainment, Wall said. The English likely ate off of tables, while the native people dined on the ground.

2. They ate for three days
The festivities went on for three days, according to primary accounts. The nearest village of native Wampanoag people traveled on foot for about two days to attend, Wall said. “It takes so long to get somewhere, that once you get there you stay a while,” she said.

3. Deer topped the menu
Venison headlined the meal, although there was a healthy selection of fowl and fish, according to the Pilgrim Hall Museum, which cited writings by Plymouth leaders Edward Winslow and William Bradford. There was a “great store of wild turkeys” to be eaten, as well as ducks and geese, wrote Bradford, who was the governor. Winslow said Massasoit, the leader of the Wampanoag people, contributed five deer to the dinner.

4. It wasn’t called Thanksgiving
There’s no evidence that the 1621 feast was called Thanksgiving, and the event was not repeated for at least a decade, experts say. Still, it is said to be the inspiration behind the now traditional annual gathering and a testament to the cooperation of two groups of people. It showed “two communities that are diplomatically connected coming together,” said Richard Pickering, Plimoth Plantation’s deputy executive director. Abraham Lincoln officially declared Thanksgiving a national holiday by proclamation in 1863.

 

[edthecynic]

The Wampanoag Side of the First Thanksgiving Story

According to a Plimoth Plantation timeline, the Mayflower arrived at Plymouth Harbor on December 16, 1620. The Pilgrims settled in an area that was once Patuxet, a Wampanoag village abandoned four years prior after a deadly outbreak of a plague, brought by European traders who first appeared in the area in 1616.

September/October 1621, the Pilgrims had just harvested their first crops, and they had a good yield. They “sent four men on fowling,” which comes from the one paragraph account by Pilgrim Edward Winslow, one of only two historical sources of this famous harvest feast. Winslow also stated, “we exercised our arms.” “Most historians believe what happened was Massasoit got word that there was a tremendous amount of gun fire coming from the Pilgrim village,” Turner said. “So he thought they were being attacked and he was going to bear aid.”

When the Wampanoag showed up, they were invited to join the Pilgrims in their feast, but there was not enough food to feed the chief and his 90 warriors. “He [Massasoit] sends his men out, and they bring back five deer, which they present to the chief of the English town [William Bradford]. So, there is this whole ceremonial gift-giving, as well. When you give it as a gift, it is more than just food,” said Kathleen Wall, a Colonial Foodways Culinarian at Plimoth Plantation.

The harvest feast lasted for three days. What did they eat? Venison, of course, and Wall said, “Not just a lovely roasted joint of venison, but all the parts of the deer were on the table in who knows how many sorts of ways.” Was there turkey? “Fowl” is mentioned in Winslow’s account, which puts turkey on Wall’s list of possibilities. She also said there probably would have been a variety of seafood and water fowl along with maize bread, pumpkin and other squashes.