The Age of Corporate Treason

[Billo_Really]

Being created in the U.S. is merely a fact of geography, and has no meaning; they "rose to immense profit" because they provided a good or service to consumers better, or at least as good, as their competitors, not merely because of their workforce; bailouts are evidence of corporatism, not capitalism;

American's created the system of government that allowed capitalism to flourish.

and the U.S. military protects the state's interests, and only the state's interests.

Then how come we've been at war for over 10 years, when 70% of the state is against it?

 

[Billo_Really]

There are many people on the right who seem to be more loyal to corporations, than they are to this country. Why would someone defend corporate tax rates?

The 25 companies, with almost a half-trillion dollars in 2011-12 income, paid just 8% in taxes to the U.S. and 9% to foreign countries.

What we need to do, is raise the tax rate on capital gains and dividends a full 10%.

And anyone who doesn't think we should, is a traitor to this country.

 

[bripat9643]

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

Since greed is an individual trait it would seem that your suggestion for measuring it isn't really very good.

And since you really cannot come up with a definition of "greed" I'd say your opinion is pretty much nothing more than bitter ravings against people who are more successful than you.

Typical right wing response. Define tall, or great, or any other subjective term. I'll bet you can't do it without a relative statistical context - if at all.

"Tall" can easily be defined. It means having a height above the average. "Great" on the other hand, is purely subjective. In practice it means little more than that you approve. You don't support your theory with these examples.

I write heuristics as part of my job and have a pretty good idea of the complexity of taking a limited amount of data and generating a decision from it using a limited amount of processing. It's much like trying to converse with dumb shits like you.

Even if your claims about your job are true, they don't prove that the word "greed" has any objective meaning. Something demonstrated heuristically is not subjective. It's still demonstrable, which you can't legitimately claim about any of your theories on "greed."

 

[bripat9643]

It's a good question, to which you did not provide an answer. You merely explained what you think of as greed, and what you would do about it. You gave no objective measurement, however.

If my response didn't answer your question then I simply don't know what you mean by an "objective measurement" of what essentially is a pathological frame of mind. Please explain how one goes about objectively measuring that. Or do you not believe that greed is an abnormal state of mind (in accordance with characteristics of normative humanism)?

An "objective measurement" is a measurement of something that actually exists. You can't measure "greed" because it doesn't actually exist. It's not a measurable feature of reality.

What I explained is not what I think of as greed. I explained what greed is.

ROFL! Prove it.

If you require further verification you will find it in any dictionary -- or in the DSM-IV-TR under common behavioral disorders. When you do, I'll be interested in knowing your thoughts on my proposed (admittedly radical) approach to controlling its effect on the American culture, which has been profoundly corrupted.

The dictionary uses other purely subjective terms to define "greed," so going down that road is dead end. Psychology is mostly not a real science, and much of the terms it uses are in the same category as "greed." They are non-falsifiable. In other words, they are outside the scope of logic or the scientific method.

To be more concise, my proposal seeks to excise the very objective of the greed impulse by imposing a barrier to it.

Which is why it's doomed to failure.

 

[editec]

Most US Corporations are no longer nationalistic, that's pretty obvious.

Us laws are no longer nationalistic, either.

You don't suppose that might have something to do with the state of the nation, do ya?

 

[georgephillip]

Most US Corporations are no longer nationalistic, that's pretty obvious.

Us laws are no longer nationalistic, either.

You don't suppose that might have something to do with the state of the nation, do ya?

When did Jefferson blink?

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Thomas Jefferson"

"Corporations write our legislation. They control our systems of information. They manage the political theater of electoral politics and impose our educational curriculum. They have turned the judiciary into one of their wholly owned subsidiaries.

"They have decimated labor unions and other independent mass organizations, as well as having bought off the Democratic Party, which once defended the rights of workers. With the evisceration of piecemeal and incremental reform—the primary role of liberal, democratic institutions—we are left defenseless against corporate power."

Rise Up or Die | Common Dreams

And they don't owe any stinking taxes, either.

 

[The Rabbi]

There are many people on the right who seem to be more loyal to corporations, than they are to this country. Why would someone defend corporate tax rates?

The 25 companies, with almost a half-trillion dollars in 2011-12 income, paid just 8% in taxes to the U.S. and 9% to foreign countries.

What we need to do, is raise the tax rate on capital gains and dividends a full 10%.

And anyone who doesn't think we should, is a traitor to this country.

ANybody who posts what you did is an ignoramus of towering dimensions.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's a good question, to which you did not provide an answer. You merely explained what you think of as greed, and what you would do about it. You gave no objective measurement, however.

If my response didn't answer your question then I simply don't know what you mean by an "objective measurement" of what essentially is a pathological frame of mind. Please explain how one goes about objectively measuring that. Or do you not believe that greed is an abnormal state of mind (in accordance with characteristics of normative humanism)?

What I explained is not what I think of as greed. I explained what greed is. If you require further verification you will find it in any dictionary -- or in the DSM-IV-TR under common behavioral disorders. When you do, I'll be interested in knowing your thoughts on my proposed (admittedly radical) approach to controlling its effect on the American culture, which has been profoundly corrupted.

To be more concise, my proposal seeks to excise the very objective of the greed impulse by imposing a barrier to it.

Your first paragraph is exactly the point. There is no objective measurement of greed, yet JoeNormal tried to act as though there were.

No, you stated that anybody who wants more than $20 million is greedy. That is a subjective statement, not a defining statement.

You might as well try to impose a barrier on stupidity, or rudeness, or any other character trait. It's pointless, and will ultimately lead to a loss of liberty.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Being created in the U.S. is merely a fact of geography, and has no meaning; they "rose to immense profit" because they provided a good or service to consumers better, or at least as good, as their competitors, not merely because of their workforce; bailouts are evidence of corporatism, not capitalism;

American's created the system of government that allowed capitalism to flourish.

and the U.S. military protects the state's interests, and only the state's interests.

Then how come we've been at war for over 10 years, when 70% of the state is against it?

Government doesn't allow capitalism to flourish. Government either gets out of the way or it doesn't. The U.S. government certainly hasn't.

You'll have to explain your second comment better, because it doesn't make sense to me at the moment.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

There are many people on the right who seem to be more loyal to corporations, than they are to this country. Why would someone defend corporate tax rates?

The 25 companies, with almost a half-trillion dollars in 2011-12 income, paid just 8% in taxes to the U.S. and 9% to foreign countries.

What we need to do, is raise the tax rate on capital gains and dividends a full 10%.

And anyone who doesn't think we should, is a traitor to this country.

That's the good ol' American spirit: "Disagree with me and you're a traitor."

 

[Billo_Really]

That's the good ol' American spirit: "Disagree with me and you're a traitor."

That's not why I think someone's a traitor!

A traitor is someone that supports entity's that harm this country.

 

[Billo_Really]

Government doesn't allow capitalism to flourish. Government either gets out of the way or it doesn't. The U.S. government certainly hasn't.

You'll have to explain your second comment better, because it doesn't make sense to me at the moment.

If we had created a communist (or socialist) government, there would be no capitalism in this country.

Are you going to address my other question?

 

[Billo_Really]

ANybody who posts what you did is an ignoramus of towering dimensions.

Care to explain why?

 

[Billo_Really]

Most US Corporations are no longer nationalistic, that's pretty obvious.

Us laws are no longer nationalistic, either.

You don't suppose that might have something to do with the state of the nation, do ya?

The ultimate goal of corporatism is the elimination of the nation-state.

 

[JoeB131]

Corporations are not "patriotic". People are patriotic. Corporations are vehicles for making money for their owners. Nothing more than that.
And it is the Left that seeks to bail out failures of corporations. The conservative free traders want them to go through bankruptcy.

Funny, I seem to remember Bush and the Republicans were the ones who insisted on bailing out the big banks and Wall Street.

The only thing that upset you guys about the bailouts was that Obama put strings on the help, like 'Don't fuck over Joe Lunchbox on the assembly line".

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That's the good ol' American spirit: "Disagree with me and you're a traitor."

That's not why I think someone's a traitor!

A traitor is someone that supports entity's that harm this country.

That you have deemed harmful to this country, you mean.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Government doesn't allow capitalism to flourish. Government either gets out of the way or it doesn't. The U.S. government certainly hasn't.

You'll have to explain your second comment better, because it doesn't make sense to me at the moment.

If we had created a communist (or socialist) government, there would be no capitalism in this country.

Are you going to address my other question?

Ok?

What was your other question?

Are you going to explain your other comment?

 

[Toro]

The corporate tax code is a monstrosity. Close the loopholes and lower rates.

FTR corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP are at the lowest levels in over 80 years.

Drop the corporate tax rate to 15%-20%.

End double taxation in foreign jurisdictions.

Make the transfer of intellectual property offshore via intercompany transfer pricing illegal. It's a fraud.

The biggest loophole is accelerated depreciation. End that and as many loopholes as possible.

 

[The Rabbi]

ANybody who posts what you did is an ignoramus of towering dimensions.

Care to explain why?

If you penalize something you get less of it. That's the idea behind speeding tickets and other things. If you tax profits, you get less of them. If you tax capital gains, you get less of them. Since those things provide the seed for future growth, why would you want less of that?
I realize in your mind you want to "stick it to da Man." BUt that's not how life or economics works. Thus my comment about your ignorance.

 

[The Rabbi]

The corporate tax code is a monstrosity. Close the loopholes and lower rates.

FTR corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP are at the lowest levels in over 80 years.

Drop the corporate tax rate to 15%-20%.

End double taxation in foreign jurisdictions.

Make the transfer of intellectual property offshore via intercompany transfer pricing illegal. It's a fraud.

The biggest loophole is accelerated depreciation. End that and as many loopholes as possible.

Reduce and simplify. It will be good for everyone except the vested interests. Which is why it wont happen.