The Big Lie

[kaz]

LOLOL

So a libertarian running as a Libertarian isn't a libertarian??

Yeah. It's gets rather convoluted.

He didn't capitalize right. The point is that Burr and Johnson were not libertarian, not that they were. Obviously they were Libertarians. Faun doesn't know what capitalization means

LOL

But Trump's a libertarian, right?

Um ... no. Trump is not a libertarian.

That number between one and a million. You keep claiming you read minds, so what is it?

All the libertarians I know sure love Trump.

You must not get out much.

Oh contrare

Through twenty polls on this topic spanning thirteen years, Gallup found that voters who identify as libertarians ranged from 17 to 23% of the American electorate. However, a 2014 Pew Poll found that 23% of Americans who identify as libertarians have little understanding of libertarianism.

It's not like there are a lot of you out there.

And are you saying you can name a libertarian on USMB who was vocal about not liking Trump? Name one I will search their history to see if they really disliked Trump and why. I don't recall any Libertarians disliking Trump.

Like I said, you libertarians all think that Republicans are all Deep State RINO's. That's exactly what Trump said about any Republican who challenged him. So his message resonated with you guys.

U.S. Sen. Rand Paul once called President Donald Trump a "fake conservative."

Trump had lobbed his own insults at Paul, saying he "reminds me of a spoiled brat without a properly functioning brain." Later, the Kentucky senator shot back, calling the bellicose New York City business tycoon a "delusional narcissist" on Comedy Central.

Yes, Paul and Trump came out swinging as they fought for the Republican Party's 2016 presidential nomination.

But then, things began to change dramatically — once Trump won the nomination and ultimately the presidency.

Within three years, Paul shifted from calling Trump a bully who was "all blather" to lashing out at the president's political enemies throughout the impeachment saga.

As the impeachment trial unfolded in the Senate, Paul put himself front and center as a chief defender of Trump, downplaying the seriousness of the proceedings by doing a crossword puzzle during early arguments and walking out on the trial after Chief Justice John Roberts rejected one of his questions because it was related to the identity of the whistleblower whose allegations prompted the impeachment inquiry.

Brian Darling, who worked as Paul's senior communications director from late 2012 to early 2015, contends that Paul and Trump align closely on foreign policy and issues like cutting taxes.

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I agree that the majority of libertarians are in the Republican party.

The reason for that is because there are two parties, and the Democrat party is the polar opposite of libertarian on every subject. The Republican party has fiscal conservatives even if the party isn't fiscally conservative.

Life sucks in this country when you believe government is too big, parasites are destroying us and no one represents us

In the 2020 presidential election, the Libertarian Party candidate, Jo Jorgensen, gained 1.2 percent of the vote, less than half the party’s 2016 election result. Jeffrey Michels and Olivier Lewis write that despite signs that pointed towards the potential for libertarian voters to be king makers in the 2020 election, their dislike of Donald Trump turned many to Joe Biden and the Democratic Party.

In 2016 you guys got 3.3% of the vote. You are losing popularity.

That also means a lot of libertarians must have voted for Trump. Maybe some even voted for Biden. So seems to me that libertarians don't know what they are doing.

Actually it was about the candidates. Gary Johnson was a lot better known than Jo.

Jo was a better candidate frankly than Gary, but she wasn't very good either. At least she was actually a libertarian

Point is Libertarianism is not catching on. Maybe it's not going to die like the Tea Party but it's going backwards as far as voter turn out. A lot of tea party people ran and won across the country. Why don't libertarians catch on? They have labeled them fringe thinkers. You guys came close to starting a 3rd party with the 3.3% you guys got when Hillary ran but not when Obama or Biden ran. Ron Paul was the closest you came and remember he was involved in that Freedom to Fascism movie where he admits believing that the income tax is unconstitutional. For the record I agree with him. Our country was taken over in 1913 and most people don't realize it. Just like you don't realize the GOP is the party for billionaires, not guys like you. Sure the Democrats are complicit too but if you are labor your an idiot for voting GOP.

Just FYI, I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a libertarian. I'm not really interested in defending the party. If that's what you want to discuss, you need to find someone who is a member of the party.

But yes, there is a problem with Libertarian catching on. The party in my view shoots itself in the foot. They say they want to repeal all taxes, which makes them anarchist. They support open borders. They lost me twice already on those two issues. I have other issues with them.

I'm a libertarian, if you want to discuss that, let me know

 

[kaz]

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I'm sure you do.

You're really unusual in that you aren't interested in explaining what you support.

I tried kaz, but you're just not smart enough to understand. Plus you're a douche. All in all, not worth the effort. Sorry.

Do you agree with me and Ron Paul that the income tax is unconstitutional?



Most of the Democrats and Republicans will say Ron Paul and I are conspiracy theory nuts.

It was as the Constitution as written. The income tax is evil. But it's hard to say it's "Unconstitutional" with the 16th amendment

 

[Dragonlady]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,

LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.

How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?

AND

Repeating your lies about what Trump did and did not say, has no validity to this discussion. Charlottesville is far from the ONLY reason people believe Trump is a white supremacist, it is simply the first really overt statement he made.

There was also Trump's refusal to disavow David Duke or the KKK, and his warm embrace of Richard Spencer and his "Unite the Right" movement. Even the Proud Boys dumped Spencer and quickly disavowed him. When an organization which is designated as a white supremacist terrorist organization considers you too vile to associate with, it speaks volumes about Spencer and his crowd.

Your whole argument that the election was decided on the lie that Trump said "good people on both sides" is completely obliterated by the fact than in 2020, in the middle of a pandemic and an economic collapse, everybody had pretty much forgotten it had happened.

What they remembered vividly was Trump's depraved indifference to the death and suffering from covid. How 3 days after it was published that black and brown people were dying in disproportionately high numbers from covid, Trump started demanding the country open up - right away.

His treatment of gold star families, calling military members "suckers" for serving their country. His treatment of refugees at the border. His attacks on the media, lying about and smearing his opponents, his refusal to accept responsibility for his mistakes.

But mostly it was his refusal to accept responsibility for any of his fuck ups, and his attempts to foist blame off on everyone around him. People will forgive honest mistakes, but his dishonesty, corruption and cruelty did NOTHING for the nation, and much to harm it.

And the lying.

 

[Dragonlady]

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I'm sure you do.

You're really unusual in that you aren't interested in explaining what you support.

I tried kaz, but you're just not smart enough to understand. Plus you're a douche. All in all, not worth the effort. Sorry.

Do you agree with me and Ron Paul that the income tax is unconstitutional?



Most of the Democrats and Republicans will say Ron Paul and I are conspiracy theory nuts.

It was as the Constitution as written. The income tax is evil. But it's hard to say it's "Unconstitutional" with the 16th amendment

The income tax is "evil". Well there is a well reasoned and thoughtful description of issues with the tax.

Taxation is your share of the costs of living in a first world country. Having the biggest and baddest military in the history of the world, to keep you "safe". Being able to go to stores and have everything in the world you can possible imagine available for your pleasure and benefit, and knowing that no one is going to rob you on your way home and take it. Registration of ownership or the enforcement of private property rights. Cities with culture, and opportunity. The freedom to earn your own destiny.

Liberty and justice for all is not cheap. Liberty and justice for some, is far more expensive than providing equal rights for all. Policing and keeping one segment of society safe, while denying rights to others, inevitably leads to discontent and revolt among the persecuted classes, as you saw last summer.

All of the things you think are "evil", in fact are based in common sense and reality, but those are two things you know nothing about.

 

[gipper]

LOLOL

So a libertarian running as a Libertarian isn't a libertarian??

Yeah. It's gets rather convoluted.

He didn't capitalize right. The point is that Burr and Johnson were not libertarian, not that they were. Obviously they were Libertarians. Faun doesn't know what capitalization means

LOL

But Trump's a libertarian, right?

Um ... no. Trump is not a libertarian.

That number between one and a million. You keep claiming you read minds, so what is it?

All the libertarians I know sure love Trump.

All? Then I say you don't really know any libertarians, or maybe a couple. While I also found the majority did, it definitely wasn't "all"

Name the libertarian here who didn't like Trump. I want to see what negative things they had to say about him.

I'll say it again. EVERY Libertarian I know loved Trump. You libertarians are the perfect suckers to fall for Trump's bullshit. You're the exact type he conned into voting for him.

What didn't you like about Trump?

Sealy says you're not a libertarian, dblack!

I say he's not either, he's a leftist.

I believe gipper and Oddball have made clear they didn't vote for Trump.

Do you ever listen to anyone other than yourself and the Democratic party?

They didn't vote for Trump but like Rand Paul they defended him for 4 years.

You're another libertarian who doesn't understand libertarianism.

Brian Darling, who worked as Paul's senior communications director from late 2012 to early 2015, contends that Paul and Trump align closely on foreign policy and issues like cutting taxes.

Wrong. I never defend any politician. They are all to be distrusted in my book. Plus I was critical of Trump earlier on. After he killed the general, I was done.

 

[Oddball]

LOLOL

So a libertarian running as a Libertarian isn't a libertarian??

Yeah. It's gets rather convoluted.

He didn't capitalize right. The point is that Burr and Johnson were not libertarian, not that they were. Obviously they were Libertarians. Faun doesn't know what capitalization means

LOL

But Trump's a libertarian, right?

Um ... no. Trump is not a libertarian.

That number between one and a million. You keep claiming you read minds, so what is it?

All the libertarians I know sure love Trump.

All? Then I say you don't really know any libertarians, or maybe a couple. While I also found the majority did, it definitely wasn't "all"

Name the libertarian here who didn't like Trump. I want to see what negative things they had to say about him.

I'll say it again. EVERY Libertarian I know loved Trump. You libertarians are the perfect suckers to fall for Trump's bullshit. You're the exact type he conned into voting for him.

What didn't you like about Trump?

Sealy says you're not a libertarian, dblack!

I say he's not either, he's a leftist.

I believe gipper and Oddball have made clear they didn't vote for Trump.

Do you ever listen to anyone other than yourself and the Democratic party?

They didn't vote for Trump but like Rand Paul they defended him for 4 years.

You're another libertarian who doesn't understand libertarianism.

Brian Darling, who worked as Paul's senior communications director from late 2012 to early 2015, contends that Paul and Trump align closely on foreign policy and issues like cutting taxes.

You leftists who think it's up to you who a libertarian is are just the weirdest people. You're the opposite of libertarian, you're for maximizing government.

Why would anyone think that means you speak for libertarians? Seriously, it'd the dumbest thing

It's bad enough with libertarian perpetually playing the "you're not real libertarian" game ad nauseum (one of the reasons I left the party) but to have a room temperature IQ sub-imbecile moonbat try to give us the primer on the topic is just TFF!

 

[Oddball]

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I'm sure you do.

You're really unusual in that you aren't interested in explaining what you support.

I tried kaz, but you're just not smart enough to understand. Plus you're a douche. All in all, not worth the effort. Sorry.

Do you agree with me and Ron Paul that the income tax is unconstitutional?



Most of the Democrats and Republicans will say Ron Paul and I are conspiracy theory nuts.

It was as the Constitution as written. The income tax is evil. But it's hard to say it's "Unconstitutional" with the 16th amendment

The income tax is "evil". Well there is a well reasoned and thoughtful description of issues with the tax.

Taxation is your share of the costs of living in a first world country. Having the biggest and baddest military in the history of the world, to keep you "safe". Being able to go to stores and have everything in the world you can possible imagine available for your pleasure and benefit, and knowing that no one is going to rob you on your way home and take it. Registration of ownership or the enforcement of private property rights. Cities with culture, and opportunity. The freedom to earn your own destiny.

Liberty and justice for all is not cheap. Liberty and justice for some, is far more expensive than providing equal rights for all. Policing and keeping one segment of society safe, while denying rights to others, inevitably leads to discontent and revolt among the persecuted classes, as you saw last summer.

All of the things you think are "evil", in fact are based in common sense and reality, but those are two things you know nothing about.

You know absolutely nothing of the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment ans income tax...Just STFU now and cut your losses.

 

[Oddball]

LOLOL

So a libertarian running as a Libertarian isn't a libertarian??

Yeah. It's gets rather convoluted.

He didn't capitalize right. The point is that Burr and Johnson were not libertarian, not that they were. Obviously they were Libertarians. Faun doesn't know what capitalization means

LOL

But Trump's a libertarian, right?

Um ... no. Trump is not a libertarian.

That number between one and a million. You keep claiming you read minds, so what is it?

All the libertarians I know sure love Trump.

All? Then I say you don't really know any libertarians, or maybe a couple. While I also found the majority did, it definitely wasn't "all"

Name the libertarian here who didn't like Trump. I want to see what negative things they had to say about him.

I'll say it again. EVERY Libertarian I know loved Trump. You libertarians are the perfect suckers to fall for Trump's bullshit. You're the exact type he conned into voting for him.

What didn't you like about Trump?

Sealy says you're not a libertarian, dblack!

I say he's not either, he's a leftist.

I believe gipper and Oddball have made clear they didn't vote for Trump.

Do you ever listen to anyone other than yourself and the Democratic party?

Gipper admitted voting for Trump in '16.....Hence his nasty case of buyer's remorse that he still hasn't got over.

 

[Faun]

Oh, well there you go then. It's up to you what a libertarian would do. Thanks for settling that, George. There'll be a little extra thank you pay in your Chinese disinformation paycheck. Shhh, the other Chinese disinformation officers will get jealous ...

Moron

It's not really necessary for you to sign your posts. The forum already knows who you are.

Another playground insult! It's the domain you live

Poor baby, do you ever stop crying?

Ever??

Your post does not contradict my point.



You lied about what he said. You lied about what he meant.

LOLOL

I quoted him, kazzer.

No shit, angry little boy. But you said what he was talking about, which wasn't the purpose of the march and wasn't part of his quote. You lied about what he was referring to.

My God you're stupid. No wonder you're constantly just maxing out at playground insults and posting like an eight year old

LOLOL

It was a racist rally, ya kazzer. Who among those racists are "very fine people?"

You see everything as racist, it's because you are one

LOL

I note you don't want to answer that question... who among the Unite the Right is a very fine person?

Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

I directly answered that question. You are a liar, Trump never said that.

Why do you hate black people? So?

LOLOL

You're kazzing again.

I didn't ask you what Trump said. I asked you who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

I'm asking you again... this makes 4 times I'm asking. Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

Were these very fine people...?

View attachment 499166​

Evasion. I asked you why you are a racist. Answer the question I asked

The answer to you're question is I'm not a racist.

5th time... who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

No, not according to you. That's the point. God you're stupid.

You said I didn't answer the question when I pointed out your question was a false question.

Therefore, you didn't answer the question when you said my question was a false question.

That was the POINT, my God you're stupid.

So answer the question. Why are you a racist?

Huh? How is my question false?

I've answered that a bunch of times. Trump was talking about the statues. There are good people on both sides. We even discussed that a bunch of times. How did you miss that?

Nope, you're just kazzing again. Kazzing is what you do whenever you're cornered. Again, Trump was talking about those who attended the rally in support of the statue. It was the Unite the Right rally who attended.

So who among them were very nice people?

Has a single person come forward and said “I was just there for the statues”?

Not sure about that, but they did march to a statue and along the way, chanted things like, "you will not replace us," "Jews will not replace us," and "blood and soil!" Some of them are "very fine people" according to Trump and the racists here but they won't say who among is when asked.

 

[surada]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,

LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.

How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?

AND

Repeating your lies about what Trump did and did not say, has no validity to this discussion. Charlottesville is far from the ONLY reason people believe Trump is a white supremacist, it is simply the first really overt statement he made.

There was also Trump's refusal to disavow David Duke or the KKK, and his warm embrace of Richard Spencer and his "Unite the Right" movement. Even the Proud Boys dumped Spencer and quickly disavowed him. When an organization which is designated as a white supremacist terrorist organization considers you too vile to associate with, it speaks volumes about Spencer and his crowd.

Your whole argument that the election was decided on the lie that Trump said "good people on both sides" is completely obliterated by the fact than in 2020, in the middle of a pandemic and an economic collapse, everybody had pretty much forgotten it had happened.

What they remembered vividly was Trump's depraved indifference to the death and suffering from covid. How 3 days after it was published that black and brown people were dying in disproportionately high numbers from covid, Trump started demanding the country open up - right away.

His treatment of gold star families, calling military members "suckers" for serving their country. His treatment of refugees at the border. His attacks on the media, lying about and smearing his opponents, his refusal to accept responsibility for his mistakes.

But mostly it was his refusal to accept responsibility for any of his fuck ups, and his attempts to foist blame off on everyone around him. People will forgive honest mistakes, but his dishonesty, corruption and cruelty did NOTHING for the nation, and much to harm it.

And the lying.

Excellent post.

 

[Dragonlady]

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I'm sure you do.

You're really unusual in that you aren't interested in explaining what you support.

I tried kaz, but you're just not smart enough to understand. Plus you're a douche. All in all, not worth the effort. Sorry.

Do you agree with me and Ron Paul that the income tax is unconstitutional?



Most of the Democrats and Republicans will say Ron Paul and I are conspiracy theory nuts.

It was as the Constitution as written. The income tax is evil. But it's hard to say it's "Unconstitutional" with the 16th amendment

The income tax is "evil". Well there is a well reasoned and thoughtful description of issues with the tax.

Taxation is your share of the costs of living in a first world country. Having the biggest and baddest military in the history of the world, to keep you "safe". Being able to go to stores and have everything in the world you can possible imagine available for your pleasure and benefit, and knowing that no one is going to rob you on your way home and take it. Registration of ownership or the enforcement of private property rights. Cities with culture, and opportunity. The freedom to earn your own destiny.

Liberty and justice for all is not cheap. Liberty and justice for some, is far more expensive than providing equal rights for all. Policing and keeping one segment of society safe, while denying rights to others, inevitably leads to discontent and revolt among the persecuted classes, as you saw last summer.

All of the things you think are "evil", in fact are based in common sense and reality, but those are two things you know nothing about.

You know absolutely nothing of the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment ans income tax...Just STFU now and cut your losses.

Well you obviously know nothing about taxation whatsoever since your only response is insults. When you can't attack the post, you attack the poster. Just makes you like childish and ill-informed. But then . . .

 

[sealybobo]

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I'm sure you do.

You're really unusual in that you aren't interested in explaining what you support.

I tried kaz, but you're just not smart enough to understand. Plus you're a douche. All in all, not worth the effort. Sorry.

Do you agree with me and Ron Paul that the income tax is unconstitutional?



Most of the Democrats and Republicans will say Ron Paul and I are conspiracy theory nuts.

It was as the Constitution as written. The income tax is evil. But it's hard to say it's "Unconstitutional" with the 16th amendment

The income tax is "evil". Well there is a well reasoned and thoughtful description of issues with the tax.

Taxation is your share of the costs of living in a first world country. Having the biggest and baddest military in the history of the world, to keep you "safe". Being able to go to stores and have everything in the world you can possible imagine available for your pleasure and benefit, and knowing that no one is going to rob you on your way home and take it. Registration of ownership or the enforcement of private property rights. Cities with culture, and opportunity. The freedom to earn your own destiny.

Liberty and justice for all is not cheap. Liberty and justice for some, is far more expensive than providing equal rights for all. Policing and keeping one segment of society safe, while denying rights to others, inevitably leads to discontent and revolt among the persecuted classes, as you saw last summer.

All of the things you think are "evil", in fact are based in common sense and reality, but those are two things you know nothing about.

You know absolutely nothing of the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment ans income tax...Just STFU now and cut your losses.

Wasn't it to pay for the war? If you haven't watched Freedom to Fascism, watch it. I was given the DVD around 15 years ago from one of the top libertarians in Michigan.

They were never supposed to tax our income. And they passed the 16th amendment during xmas, when most senators were at home with their families. It was never legally ratified by the states. Yada yada. Our country was taken over by the bankers in 1913.

Remember, when the debt doubles every 8 years, who loves that? The bankers who run the federal reserve. Why would we turn over the Federal Reserve to private bankers and pay them interest on our debt? You know what? This is when Republicans should jump in and defend the private bankers for handling this over our own government handling the Federal Reserve. Why privatize this? I think we should take back the Federal Reserve so we can stop paying interest on our debt. We will pay off our debts but interest free.

 

[sealybobo]

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I'm sure you do.

You're really unusual in that you aren't interested in explaining what you support.

I tried kaz, but you're just not smart enough to understand. Plus you're a douche. All in all, not worth the effort. Sorry.

Do you agree with me and Ron Paul that the income tax is unconstitutional?



Most of the Democrats and Republicans will say Ron Paul and I are conspiracy theory nuts.

It was as the Constitution as written. The income tax is evil. But it's hard to say it's "Unconstitutional" with the 16th amendment

The income tax is "evil". Well there is a well reasoned and thoughtful description of issues with the tax.

Taxation is your share of the costs of living in a first world country. Having the biggest and baddest military in the history of the world, to keep you "safe". Being able to go to stores and have everything in the world you can possible imagine available for your pleasure and benefit, and knowing that no one is going to rob you on your way home and take it. Registration of ownership or the enforcement of private property rights. Cities with culture, and opportunity. The freedom to earn your own destiny.

Liberty and justice for all is not cheap. Liberty and justice for some, is far more expensive than providing equal rights for all. Policing and keeping one segment of society safe, while denying rights to others, inevitably leads to discontent and revolt among the persecuted classes, as you saw last summer.

All of the things you think are "evil", in fact are based in common sense and reality, but those are two things you know nothing about.

You know absolutely nothing of the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment ans income tax...Just STFU now and cut your losses.

Well you obviously know nothing about taxation whatsoever since your only response is insults. When you can't attack the post, you attack the poster. Just makes you like childish and ill-informed. But then . . .

He should have told you about the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment and income tax. Instead he just said you don't know the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment and income tax. Perhaps later he will enlighten us.

 

[Correll]

I don't like what you do Using libertarian to justify Democrat party fascism and totalitarian government and alibiing their racism is pretty pathetic

I'm not really using the term "libertarian" any more. Not on this board. I still think the word has meaning - a radically different meaning than your conception - but words mean what people mean when they use them. And what you mean when you say "libertarian" has, apparently, utterly nothing to do with what I mean when I use the term.

So, to avoid confusion, let me state clearly that whatever it is you mean by "libertarian" - I'm not it. Clear? I want exactly nothing to do with your Trumpster statist idiocy.

What a bunch of useless hot air. And again you disagree with EVERY libertarian on the board and are saying they aren't libertarians and leftists love you. You slap each other on the butt, high five each other and grove all the time. Even Faun, who is one of the most hate filled leftists on the board. He walks up and is like you're great. Mac. The list goes on. They love the Democrat party, they love you.

So, what do I believe that you think isn't small government libertarian? Be specific.

LOL

Dayum, it really bothers you that I find some common ground with some libertarians.

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

You're not the only totalitarian leftist who likes him. And he doesn't get along either with a single libertarian on the board.

Let him answer the question, I really would like to know how it makes sense that someone formerly called a libertarian resonates only with totalitarians

You kaz, i.e., lie, again. You're no libertarian. No real libertarian would have voted for Trump.

Another leftist who says I'm not a libertarian ... who can't come up with any examples ...

Yawn

Libertarians are just disenfranchised Republicans with a slight twist. Meh.

Democrats are just Nazis who miss the 1930s

So let me get this straight. Trump employs all of Hitler's tactics. Nationalism. Racism. Trump even starts his own Beer Hall Putsch. And you have the balls to call us Nazi's?

Hitler went to jail after his failed coup. Let's see if Trump follows the same path.

But also keep in mind Hitler came into power after he was let out of prison. At least in this country you can't run for POTUS if you are a convicted felon. That's why Republicans refuse to impeach him in the Senate.

Huh? What prevents a convicted felon of running for president, other than a felony of rebelling against the government?

I thought if he was convicted or impeached in the Senate then he couldn't run again.

If he was convicted of Impeachment, he could not run again; but that wouldn't make him a felon. A felon has to be convicted in a court of law and such people can run. Technically, a felon in prison could legally run, though it would make campaigning a bitch.

No, a felon could not run. You have to be a registered voter to run for office. I believe only one state allows felons to register.

I hadn't considered that but I'm not sure that matters. For one, I don't know if felons lose their voters registration or if their names are simply taken off the voter roles. For another, I'm not sure a person has to be registered with a party to run for president. Especially given the only Constitutional requirements are at least 35 years of age, a natural born citizen, and not already served 2 terms.

That's it! It was my Republican buddy who's a felon who voted for Trump. This is why Republicans know voter fraud exists because they do it.

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

Yep. Though I disagree with those that oppose them, I do not think that they are all bad people.


And even if I did disagree, I would not lie about what Trump said, so that I could attack him based on that lie.

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

View attachment 499177


Nothing I have said indicates that ONLY southerns have a right to celebrate their heritage. Your questions make no sense.

Southerners and Germans don't get to celebrate sedition, treason and their relatives who tried to secede from the United States of America.

They are not patriots. No you should not be able to fly a confederate flag on your car. I know it's allowed but it shouldn't be. It's like wearing your KKK hood around town. Why don't you do that if you are so proud of this heritage?

You remind me of the confederate flag today. You're a white racist pretending not to be.

You would arrest people for having a confederate flag on their car?


Wow. Thanks for showing just where this kind of thinking leads to.


I mean, I knew, but making the case is hard, because it sounds so outrageous to Americans.


BUt, you just demonstrated it for me.

THanks.

Can you legally ride around in a car with the word N8**#r on it? I'm curious if that's legal or not.

I would bet money that there are bumper stickers that say such shit.

BUT, regardless, a confederate flag is not obscene.


You thinking of walking that back some?

No, but you'd think Americans would be revolted by seditionists who fought against the USA. And got their asses kicked, to boot.

I would not think that. The Americans that fought against them were not. Americans generally don't hold grudges. Especially over long periods of time.

When is the last time you were angry at a Canadian over kicking our asses in 1812?

 

[Correll]

I don't like what you do Using libertarian to justify Democrat party fascism and totalitarian government and alibiing their racism is pretty pathetic

I'm not really using the term "libertarian" any more. Not on this board. I still think the word has meaning - a radically different meaning than your conception - but words mean what people mean when they use them. And what you mean when you say "libertarian" has, apparently, utterly nothing to do with what I mean when I use the term.

So, to avoid confusion, let me state clearly that whatever it is you mean by "libertarian" - I'm not it. Clear? I want exactly nothing to do with your Trumpster statist idiocy.

What a bunch of useless hot air. And again you disagree with EVERY libertarian on the board and are saying they aren't libertarians and leftists love you. You slap each other on the butt, high five each other and grove all the time. Even Faun, who is one of the most hate filled leftists on the board. He walks up and is like you're great. Mac. The list goes on. They love the Democrat party, they love you.

So, what do I believe that you think isn't small government libertarian? Be specific.

LOL

Dayum, it really bothers you that I find some common ground with some libertarians.

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

You're not the only totalitarian leftist who likes him. And he doesn't get along either with a single libertarian on the board.

Let him answer the question, I really would like to know how it makes sense that someone formerly called a libertarian resonates only with totalitarians

You kaz, i.e., lie, again. You're no libertarian. No real libertarian would have voted for Trump.

Another leftist who says I'm not a libertarian ... who can't come up with any examples ...

Yawn

Libertarians are just disenfranchised Republicans with a slight twist. Meh.

Democrats are just Nazis who miss the 1930s

So let me get this straight. Trump employs all of Hitler's tactics. Nationalism. Racism. Trump even starts his own Beer Hall Putsch. And you have the balls to call us Nazi's?

Hitler went to jail after his failed coup. Let's see if Trump follows the same path.

But also keep in mind Hitler came into power after he was let out of prison. At least in this country you can't run for POTUS if you are a convicted felon. That's why Republicans refuse to impeach him in the Senate.

Huh? What prevents a convicted felon of running for president, other than a felony of rebelling against the government?

I thought if he was convicted or impeached in the Senate then he couldn't run again.

If he was convicted of Impeachment, he could not run again; but that wouldn't make him a felon. A felon has to be convicted in a court of law and such people can run. Technically, a felon in prison could legally run, though it would make campaigning a bitch.

No, a felon could not run. You have to be a registered voter to run for office. I believe only one state allows felons to register.

I hadn't considered that but I'm not sure that matters. For one, I don't know if felons lose their voters registration or if their names are simply taken off the voter roles. For another, I'm not sure a person has to be registered with a party to run for president. Especially given the only Constitutional requirements are at least 35 years of age, a natural born citizen, and not already served 2 terms.

That's it! It was my Republican buddy who's a felon who voted for Trump. This is why Republicans know voter fraud exists because they do it.

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

Yep. Though I disagree with those that oppose them, I do not think that they are all bad people.


And even if I did disagree, I would not lie about what Trump said, so that I could attack him based on that lie.

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

View attachment 499177


Nothing I have said indicates that ONLY southerns have a right to celebrate their heritage. Your questions make no sense.

Southerners and Germans don't get to celebrate sedition, treason and their relatives who tried to secede from the United States of America.

They are not patriots. No you should not be able to fly a confederate flag on your car. I know it's allowed but it shouldn't be. It's like wearing your KKK hood around town. Why don't you do that if you are so proud of this heritage?

You remind me of the confederate flag today. You're a white racist pretending not to be.

You would arrest people for having a confederate flag on their car?


Wow. Thanks for showing just where this kind of thinking leads to.


I mean, I knew, but making the case is hard, because it sounds so outrageous to Americans.


BUt, you just demonstrated it for me.

THanks.

Can you legally ride around in a car with the word N8**#r on it? I'm curious if that's legal or not.

I would bet money that there are bumper stickers that say such shit.

BUT, regardless, a confederate flag is not obscene.


You thinking of walking that back some?

No I think the confederate flag is obscene as a statue of Lee. He was a scumbag Democrat.

Got it. YOu want to jail people for having a confederate flag.


Well, that's me, winning the debate. YOu people are want a be Tyrants, motived by hate and a desire to crush your enemies, (political imprisonment) for made up bullshit reasons.

Meanwhile over here, we just want to celebrate some historical heritage and have a little Pride.

To the extent that your side wins, this country will become a Third World One Party State, torn apart by racial and partisan strife.

 

[Correll]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

no, I'm reading his WORDS, which I posted repeatedly, you dishonest partisan zealot.

 

[Correll]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....

His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.


IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.


IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.

 

[Correll]

Oh, well there you go then. It's up to you what a libertarian would do. Thanks for settling that, George. There'll be a little extra thank you pay in your Chinese disinformation paycheck. Shhh, the other Chinese disinformation officers will get jealous ...

Moron

It's not really necessary for you to sign your posts. The forum already knows who you are.

Another playground insult! It's the domain you live

Poor baby, do you ever stop crying?

Ever??

Your post does not contradict my point.



You lied about what he said. You lied about what he meant.

LOLOL

I quoted him, kazzer.

No shit, angry little boy. But you said what he was talking about, which wasn't the purpose of the march and wasn't part of his quote. You lied about what he was referring to.

My God you're stupid. No wonder you're constantly just maxing out at playground insults and posting like an eight year old

LOLOL

It was a racist rally, ya kazzer. Who among those racists are "very fine people?"

You see everything as racist, it's because you are one

LOL

I note you don't want to answer that question... who among the Unite the Right is a very fine person?

Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

I directly answered that question. You are a liar, Trump never said that.

Why do you hate black people? So?

LOLOL

You're kazzing again.

I didn't ask you what Trump said. I asked you who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

I'm asking you again... this makes 4 times I'm asking. Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

Were these very fine people...?

View attachment 499166​

Evasion. I asked you why you are a racist. Answer the question I asked

The answer to you're question is I'm not a racist.

5th time... who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

I find that hard to believe. Don't you support many racist policies?

 

[Correll]

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Yes, Southerners have a right to celebrate their heritage. The question is really about government though. Should government put on government property things that reasonably offend a large part of its population? The statues were put there by Democrat racists for racist purposes. That is history, you can't deny it.

I'm totally with you and Trump in giving lengthy jail sentences to anyone who takes it on themselves to make that decision and tear down the statues. But it's a reasonable case for people to go to the legislature and ask for them to be displayed in museums where people chose to see what they are seeing

The concept of multiculturalism was that different cultures would live together in harmony respecting each other's culture as equal and working tolerate differences.


We were also promised that demographic changes would not lead to radical cultural transformation of our society or that it would problem for those Americans that were already here.


We now see that ALL of that was a lie. As these towns and communities change, the former majority is now being harassed and attacked for celebrating it's heritage.


Communities or institutions built by one group or collection of groups, are now being dominated by other groups and the intentions or interests of the now minorities are being dismissed and actively fought against.

 

[Oddball]

I think you are one of those libertarians who has little understanding of libertarianism

I'm sure you do.

You're really unusual in that you aren't interested in explaining what you support.

I tried kaz, but you're just not smart enough to understand. Plus you're a douche. All in all, not worth the effort. Sorry.

Do you agree with me and Ron Paul that the income tax is unconstitutional?



Most of the Democrats and Republicans will say Ron Paul and I are conspiracy theory nuts.

It was as the Constitution as written. The income tax is evil. But it's hard to say it's "Unconstitutional" with the 16th amendment

The income tax is "evil". Well there is a well reasoned and thoughtful description of issues with the tax.

Taxation is your share of the costs of living in a first world country. Having the biggest and baddest military in the history of the world, to keep you "safe". Being able to go to stores and have everything in the world you can possible imagine available for your pleasure and benefit, and knowing that no one is going to rob you on your way home and take it. Registration of ownership or the enforcement of private property rights. Cities with culture, and opportunity. The freedom to earn your own destiny.

Liberty and justice for all is not cheap. Liberty and justice for some, is far more expensive than providing equal rights for all. Policing and keeping one segment of society safe, while denying rights to others, inevitably leads to discontent and revolt among the persecuted classes, as you saw last summer.

All of the things you think are "evil", in fact are based in common sense and reality, but those are two things you know nothing about.

You know absolutely nothing of the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment ans income tax...Just STFU now and cut your losses.

Well you obviously know nothing about taxation whatsoever since your only response is insults. When you can't attack the post, you attack the poster. Just makes you like childish and ill-informed. But then . . .

He should have told you about the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment and income tax. Instead he just said you don't know the reasoning behind the 16th Amendment and income tax. Perhaps later he will enlighten us.

I know the reaoning behind it, and I'm not going to get sucked into arguing about it with one of the forum's biggest idiots.