The Big Lie

[sealybobo]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....

His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.


IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.


IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.

Nope, you're the liar. It was a racist rally conceived, sponsored, promoted, ran, and attended by racists. Trump never once indicated he believed otherwise or thought there were non-racists among that crowd.

I'm going to defend Correll for a second, even though I think he's full of shit. Can't white people attend a white pride event? What about a million white man march? If we held a 1 million white man pride march would there be any fine people attending?

 

[Dragonlady]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....

His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.

IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.

IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.

IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant. Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.

 

[Lastamender]

The topic is the Big Lie. That lie is that there was no fraud. Why are so many people worried about what our mods think is a conspiracy theory?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

The Democrats' Demographic Demolition Derby

On all issues, Americans have been pushed by massive mind-control to miss the point, which is in this case the fact that we are not allowed to vote on who can vote and who can come into the country and become a citizen. Since we weren't free to do that and stop this forced nation-destroying mongrelization of the electorate back in the 1960s, our country has lost its way and is rapidly sliding straight into the gutter with other failed nations. Those who jealously hate those who built America have sneaked this one over on us, an America that has returned to the pre-Columbian wasteland occupied by savages. Only a revolution or secession can solve this continual weakening of our foundation, which is leading to a collapse into chaos.

 

[Dragonlady]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....

His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.


IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.


IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.

Nope, you're the liar. It was a racist rally conceived, sponsored, promoted, ran, and attended by racists. Trump never once indicated he believed otherwise or thought there were non-racists among that crowd.

I'm going to defend Correll for a second, even though I think he's full of shit. Can't white people attend a white pride event? What about a million white man march? If we held a 1 million white man pride march would there be any fine people attending?

One of the goals of the rally was to unite the White Supremacist movement. One need only read the names of the sponsors and organizers of the event to realize that event hosted by Richard Spencer, the Proud Boys, and the KKK Leadership, was not the Daughters of the Revolution picnic here.

There are lots of "white pride days", and "white pride groups", St. Patrick's Day is a Irish white pride day. The various ethnic churches and communities all have their holidays, which celebrates their ethnicity and their heritage. But there is no general "white pride day" because there is no general "white culture".

People come from a lot of European nations and backgrounds. We are hardly homogenous, and many of our ancestors were enemies. My white friends whose parents are immigrants have so many customs, traditions and foods, which are odd to me. My best friend growing up was from Romania. I spent summers working at her grandparents tobacco farm, and eating foods I've never had before or since. Those with family from Norway may as well be from another planet. The Dutch are fun - building canals everywhere.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

The Democrats' Demographic Demolition Derby

On all issues, Americans have been pushed by massive mind-control to miss the point, which is in this case the fact that we are not allowed to vote on who can vote and who can come into the country and become a citizen. Since we weren't free to do that and stop this forced nation-destroying mongrelization of the electorate back in the 1960s, our country has lost its way and is rapidly sliding straight into the gutter with other failed nations. Those who jealously hate those who built America have sneaked this one over on us, an America that has returned to the pre-Columbian wasteland occupied by savages. Only a revolution or secession can solve this continual weakening of our foundation, which is leading to a collapse into chaos.

What is leading your "collapse into chaos" is the amount of resources and energy you expend in keeping the white man in charge, and the rest of your population subjugated and under control. You are becoming a second tier nation not because of your diversity, but because of your racism and authoritarianism.

Imagine if you didn't have the largest prison population in the world, what you could do with that money. Instead of spending $120,000 per year per person keeping people locked up. You could give them all these prisoners a free education for less than the cost of a 3 year prison term.

 

[Lastamender]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

The Democrats' Demographic Demolition Derby

On all issues, Americans have been pushed by massive mind-control to miss the point, which is in this case the fact that we are not allowed to vote on who can vote and who can come into the country and become a citizen. Since we weren't free to do that and stop this forced nation-destroying mongrelization of the electorate back in the 1960s, our country has lost its way and is rapidly sliding straight into the gutter with other failed nations. Those who jealously hate those who built America have sneaked this one over on us, an America that has returned to the pre-Columbian wasteland occupied by savages. Only a revolution or secession can solve this continual weakening of our foundation, which is leading to a collapse into chaos.

What is leading your "collapse into chaos" is the amount of resources and energy you expend in keeping the white man in charge, and the rest of your population subjugated and under control. You are becoming a second tier nation not because of your diversity, but because of your racism and authoritarianism.

Imagine if you didn't have the largest prison population in the world, what you could do with that money. Instead of spending $120,000 per year per person keeping people locked up. You could give them all these prisoners a free education for less than the cost of a 3 year prison term.

One of the goals of the rally was to unite the White Supremacist movement.

There is no white supremacist movement. It is propaganda backed by the real supremacists. They are all kinds of colors.

 

[Dragonlady]

The topic is the Big Lie. That lie is that there was no fraud. Why are so many people worried about what our mods think is a conspiracy theory?

The Big Lie is that there was fraud. The Big Lie is that Trump was re-elected. That the American people really wanted four more years of his incompetence, corruption, and chaos.

Only a fool believes that Trump won the election.

 

[Lastamender]

The topic is the Big Lie. That lie is that there was no fraud. Why are so many people worried about what our mods think is a conspiracy theory?

The Big Lie is that there was fraud. The Big Lie is that Trump was re-elected. That the American people really wanted four more years of his incompetence, corruption, and chaos.

Only a fool believes that Trump won the election.

Trump was not incompetent. Trump was not corrupt. And the chaos is the media's making helped by race baiters and Communists.

 

[Faun]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....

His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.


IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.


IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.

Nope, you're the liar. It was a racist rally conceived, sponsored, promoted, ran, and attended by racists. Trump never once indicated he believed otherwise or thought there were non-racists among that crowd.

I'm going to defend Correll for a second, even though I think he's full of shit. Can't white people attend a white pride event? What about a million white man march? If we held a 1 million white man pride march would there be any fine people attending?

Of course they can. It might piss some folks off, but they can still do it. But that's not what that event was about. It was a racist rally around a statue in an attempt to unite a bunch of racist groups. Again, it was a racist rally conceived, sponsored, promoted, ran, and attended by racists. All of the speakers they invited to pump the crowd were avowed racists.

 

[Faun]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....

His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.

IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.

IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.

IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant. Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.

"IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day."

That's actually completely accurate. I had forgotten about that. Trump kept sticking his foot in his mouth and then coming back to fix his earlier comments. As Correll said, Trump's message was near "perfect" and clear ... clear as mud.

 

[Faun]

There is no white supremacist movement. It is propaganda backed by the real supremacists. They are all kinds of colors.

 

[Dragonlady]

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Yes, Southerners have a right to celebrate their heritage. The question is really about government though. Should government put on government property things that reasonably offend a large part of its population? The statues were put there by Democrat racists for racist purposes. That is history, you can't deny it.

I'm totally with you and Trump in giving lengthy jail sentences to anyone who takes it on themselves to make that decision and tear down the statues. But it's a reasonable case for people to go to the legislature and ask for them to be displayed in museums where people chose to see what they are seeing

The concept of multiculturalism was that different cultures would live together in harmony respecting each other's culture as equal and working tolerate differences.

We were also promised that demographic changes would not lead to radical cultural transformation of our society or that it would problem for those Americans that were already here.

We now see that ALL of that was a lie. As these towns and communities change, the former majority is now being harassed and attacked for celebrating it's heritage.

Communities or institutions built by one group or collection of groups, are now being dominated by other groups and the intentions or interests of the now minorities are being dismissed and actively fought against.

The concept of multi-culturalism is that all people live together, in a cultural melting pot, pulling the best ideas from various cultures. The USA has long billed itself as the "melting pot of the world", which puts the lie to your notions of multi-culturalism. There is no "melting" unless everyone is in the same pot.

White Southerners wanted no part of a culture where uneducated former slaves were allowed to roam free, and set out to ensure no mixing of the races, and make good and sure that blacks didn't get too "uppity". Jim Crow laws codified all of those restrictions blacks.

The Supreme Court ruled that "separate but equal" left non-whites with inferior facilities or none at all, and ordered all public spaces to be integrated. Southeners aren't celebrating their "culture" when they trot out their Confederate cultural symbols, they reminding black people that they are still living in the white man's world, and you'd best not forget it.

So stop with your cultural lies. If you had built a better country, instead of the shithole country of the First World, you'd get more people from First World countries who want to emigrate to your shores, but for the rest of the white people are better off where we are and we have no intention of leaving.

The whole "separate but equal" line came from the Deep South to justify segregation, but it is not and has never been the basis for multi-culturalism in North America.

 

[Correll]

I don't like what you do Using libertarian to justify Democrat party fascism and totalitarian government and alibiing their racism is pretty pathetic

I'm not really using the term "libertarian" any more. Not on this board. I still think the word has meaning - a radically different meaning than your conception - but words mean what people mean when they use them. And what you mean when you say "libertarian" has, apparently, utterly nothing to do with what I mean when I use the term.

So, to avoid confusion, let me state clearly that whatever it is you mean by "libertarian" - I'm not it. Clear? I want exactly nothing to do with your Trumpster statist idiocy.

What a bunch of useless hot air. And again you disagree with EVERY libertarian on the board and are saying they aren't libertarians and leftists love you. You slap each other on the butt, high five each other and grove all the time. Even Faun, who is one of the most hate filled leftists on the board. He walks up and is like you're great. Mac. The list goes on. They love the Democrat party, they love you.

So, what do I believe that you think isn't small government libertarian? Be specific.

LOL

Dayum, it really bothers you that I find some common ground with some libertarians.

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

You're not the only totalitarian leftist who likes him. And he doesn't get along either with a single libertarian on the board.

Let him answer the question, I really would like to know how it makes sense that someone formerly called a libertarian resonates only with totalitarians

You kaz, i.e., lie, again. You're no libertarian. No real libertarian would have voted for Trump.

Another leftist who says I'm not a libertarian ... who can't come up with any examples ...

Yawn

Libertarians are just disenfranchised Republicans with a slight twist. Meh.

Democrats are just Nazis who miss the 1930s

So let me get this straight. Trump employs all of Hitler's tactics. Nationalism. Racism. Trump even starts his own Beer Hall Putsch. And you have the balls to call us Nazi's?

Hitler went to jail after his failed coup. Let's see if Trump follows the same path.

But also keep in mind Hitler came into power after he was let out of prison. At least in this country you can't run for POTUS if you are a convicted felon. That's why Republicans refuse to impeach him in the Senate.

Huh? What prevents a convicted felon of running for president, other than a felony of rebelling against the government?

I thought if he was convicted or impeached in the Senate then he couldn't run again.

If he was convicted of Impeachment, he could not run again; but that wouldn't make him a felon. A felon has to be convicted in a court of law and such people can run. Technically, a felon in prison could legally run, though it would make campaigning a bitch.

No, a felon could not run. You have to be a registered voter to run for office. I believe only one state allows felons to register.

I hadn't considered that but I'm not sure that matters. For one, I don't know if felons lose their voters registration or if their names are simply taken off the voter roles. For another, I'm not sure a person has to be registered with a party to run for president. Especially given the only Constitutional requirements are at least 35 years of age, a natural born citizen, and not already served 2 terms.

That's it! It was my Republican buddy who's a felon who voted for Trump. This is why Republicans know voter fraud exists because they do it.

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

Yep. Though I disagree with those that oppose them, I do not think that they are all bad people.


And even if I did disagree, I would not lie about what Trump said, so that I could attack him based on that lie.

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

View attachment 499177


Nothing I have said indicates that ONLY southerns have a right to celebrate their heritage. Your questions make no sense.

Southerners and Germans don't get to celebrate sedition, treason and their relatives who tried to secede from the United States of America.

They are not patriots. No you should not be able to fly a confederate flag on your car. I know it's allowed but it shouldn't be. It's like wearing your KKK hood around town. Why don't you do that if you are so proud of this heritage?

You remind me of the confederate flag today. You're a white racist pretending not to be.

You would arrest people for having a confederate flag on their car?


Wow. Thanks for showing just where this kind of thinking leads to.


I mean, I knew, but making the case is hard, because it sounds so outrageous to Americans.


BUt, you just demonstrated it for me.

THanks.

Can you legally ride around in a car with the word N8**#r on it? I'm curious if that's legal or not.

I would bet money that there are bumper stickers that say such shit.

BUT, regardless, a confederate flag is not obscene.


You thinking of walking that back some?

No, but you'd think Americans would be revolted by seditionists who fought against the USA. And got their asses kicked, to boot.

I would not think that. The Americans that fought against them were not. Americans generally don't hold grudges. Especially over long periods of time.

When is the last time you were angry at a Canadian over kicking our asses in 1812?

The grudge is not against the ones who did the ass kicking -- it's against the seditionists who went to war with their own country.

Um, yeah, I got that. Nothing I said in any way suggested any confusion on this end.


My point stands. I would not expect Americans to still be holding a grudge over a war from over a 150 years ago. Indeed, that grudge was over and buried in pretty short order, certainly by the time of WWI, it was gone.

In the majority of my lifetime, the flying of the Confederate Flag was seen as a harmless symbol of regional pride. It is only fairly recently that drama queens decided to have a hissy fit about it, because they had run out of any real racism to whine about.

 

[Correll]

I don't like what you do Using libertarian to justify Democrat party fascism and totalitarian government and alibiing their racism is pretty pathetic

I'm not really using the term "libertarian" any more. Not on this board. I still think the word has meaning - a radically different meaning than your conception - but words mean what people mean when they use them. And what you mean when you say "libertarian" has, apparently, utterly nothing to do with what I mean when I use the term.

So, to avoid confusion, let me state clearly that whatever it is you mean by "libertarian" - I'm not it. Clear? I want exactly nothing to do with your Trumpster statist idiocy.

What a bunch of useless hot air. And again you disagree with EVERY libertarian on the board and are saying they aren't libertarians and leftists love you. You slap each other on the butt, high five each other and grove all the time. Even Faun, who is one of the most hate filled leftists on the board. He walks up and is like you're great. Mac. The list goes on. They love the Democrat party, they love you.

So, what do I believe that you think isn't small government libertarian? Be specific.

LOL

Dayum, it really bothers you that I find some common ground with some libertarians.

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

You're not the only totalitarian leftist who likes him. And he doesn't get along either with a single libertarian on the board.

Let him answer the question, I really would like to know how it makes sense that someone formerly called a libertarian resonates only with totalitarians

You kaz, i.e., lie, again. You're no libertarian. No real libertarian would have voted for Trump.

Another leftist who says I'm not a libertarian ... who can't come up with any examples ...

Yawn

Libertarians are just disenfranchised Republicans with a slight twist. Meh.

Democrats are just Nazis who miss the 1930s

So let me get this straight. Trump employs all of Hitler's tactics. Nationalism. Racism. Trump even starts his own Beer Hall Putsch. And you have the balls to call us Nazi's?

Hitler went to jail after his failed coup. Let's see if Trump follows the same path.

But also keep in mind Hitler came into power after he was let out of prison. At least in this country you can't run for POTUS if you are a convicted felon. That's why Republicans refuse to impeach him in the Senate.

Huh? What prevents a convicted felon of running for president, other than a felony of rebelling against the government?

I thought if he was convicted or impeached in the Senate then he couldn't run again.

If he was convicted of Impeachment, he could not run again; but that wouldn't make him a felon. A felon has to be convicted in a court of law and such people can run. Technically, a felon in prison could legally run, though it would make campaigning a bitch.

No, a felon could not run. You have to be a registered voter to run for office. I believe only one state allows felons to register.

I hadn't considered that but I'm not sure that matters. For one, I don't know if felons lose their voters registration or if their names are simply taken off the voter roles. For another, I'm not sure a person has to be registered with a party to run for president. Especially given the only Constitutional requirements are at least 35 years of age, a natural born citizen, and not already served 2 terms.

That's it! It was my Republican buddy who's a felon who voted for Trump. This is why Republicans know voter fraud exists because they do it.

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

Yep. Though I disagree with those that oppose them, I do not think that they are all bad people.


And even if I did disagree, I would not lie about what Trump said, so that I could attack him based on that lie.

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

View attachment 499177


Nothing I have said indicates that ONLY southerns have a right to celebrate their heritage. Your questions make no sense.

Southerners and Germans don't get to celebrate sedition, treason and their relatives who tried to secede from the United States of America.

They are not patriots. No you should not be able to fly a confederate flag on your car. I know it's allowed but it shouldn't be. It's like wearing your KKK hood around town. Why don't you do that if you are so proud of this heritage?

You remind me of the confederate flag today. You're a white racist pretending not to be.

You would arrest people for having a confederate flag on their car?


Wow. Thanks for showing just where this kind of thinking leads to.


I mean, I knew, but making the case is hard, because it sounds so outrageous to Americans.


BUt, you just demonstrated it for me.

THanks.

Can you legally ride around in a car with the word N8**#r on it? I'm curious if that's legal or not.

I would bet money that there are bumper stickers that say such shit.

BUT, regardless, a confederate flag is not obscene.


You thinking of walking that back some?

No I think the confederate flag is obscene as a statue of Lee. He was a scumbag Democrat.

Got it. YOu want to jail people for having a confederate flag.


Well, that's me, winning the debate. YOu people are want a be Tyrants, motived by hate and a desire to crush your enemies, (political imprisonment) for made up bullshit reasons.

Meanwhile over here, we just want to celebrate some historical heritage and have a little Pride.

To the extent that your side wins, this country will become a Third World One Party State, torn apart by racial and partisan strife.

You pretend it's not racist and that it's all about pride. No one is buying it.

But we allow you to fly the confederate flag. Out of pitty because we kicked your asses and you're clearly still butt hurt over it to this day. Still the south talks about seceding. We should drop a bomb on them then give the south to blacks, indians and Mexicans. REAL Americans.

Except we aren't the liars, you people are.

You didn't kick anyone's asses. The people of the mid 1800's did. And that generation buried the hatchet long before you were born.

Who are you to overrule their decision on the matter? What moral authority do you have that trumps their sacrifice?


Because you say "wacism" you think that is more important than sacrificing family and friends and limbs and freeing millions of slaves?


LOL!!!

 

[Correll]

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

You're stupid and you showed that again in how you phrased it, but you are basically right on the central point.

The statues were put there by racist Democrats for racist purposes, it's reasonable that blacks as well as whites would have a problem with that and want them removed.

That does not justify violent Democrat street "justice"

The Daughters of the Confederacy, putting up statues to honor their dead fathers, is a valid motive.

The blacks of the Jim Crow South, did not need to see statues in the Park, to know that they were being oppressed. They knew it.

Yea they weren't racists

View attachment 499531

The fact that you felt that you had to lie about what I said, to attack it?

That is your brain dealing with the fact it realized that I was right, and you could not challenge what I ACTUALLY SAID.

This actually circles back to the thread topic, about how you people are such liars, that your control of the media and pop culture led to this NOT being a legitimate election.

FRAUD BY DECPETION.

 

[Correll]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.

It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.

i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.

You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND

"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.

For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....

His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.


IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.


IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.

Nope, you're the liar. It was a racist rally conceived, sponsored, promoted, ran, and attended by racists. Trump never once indicated he believed otherwise or thought there were non-racists among that crowd.

Trump explicitly and clearly stated that he believed that there were OTHER people there, who should up for OTHER reasons.

"excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee." "


You people managed to sell the BIG LIE to the American People, the moderates and the non-politicals at least, that the President was a ws.


That was huge. That could likely have flipped the election right there. That was FRAUD BY DECPTION.

 

[Correll]

Oh, well there you go then. It's up to you what a libertarian would do. Thanks for settling that, George. There'll be a little extra thank you pay in your Chinese disinformation paycheck. Shhh, the other Chinese disinformation officers will get jealous ...

Moron

It's not really necessary for you to sign your posts. The forum already knows who you are.

Another playground insult! It's the domain you live

Poor baby, do you ever stop crying?

Ever??

Your post does not contradict my point.



You lied about what he said. You lied about what he meant.

LOLOL

I quoted him, kazzer.

No shit, angry little boy. But you said what he was talking about, which wasn't the purpose of the march and wasn't part of his quote. You lied about what he was referring to.

My God you're stupid. No wonder you're constantly just maxing out at playground insults and posting like an eight year old

LOLOL

It was a racist rally, ya kazzer. Who among those racists are "very fine people?"

You see everything as racist, it's because you are one

LOL

I note you don't want to answer that question... who among the Unite the Right is a very fine person?

Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

I directly answered that question. You are a liar, Trump never said that.

Why do you hate black people? So?

LOLOL

You're kazzing again.

I didn't ask you what Trump said. I asked you who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

I'm asking you again... this makes 4 times I'm asking. Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

Were these very fine people...?

View attachment 499166​

Evasion. I asked you why you are a racist. Answer the question I asked

The answer to you're question is I'm not a racist.

5th time... who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

I find that hard to believe. Don't you support many racist policies?

No.

You don't support discriminating if favor of traditionally disadvantaged minorities to make up for past injustices?

 

[Correll]

0

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art

What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?

Nazis.

So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.

 

[Seawytch]

0

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art

What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?

Nazis.

So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.

Yeah, you nailed it. It's because they are white, not because they were traitors to their country (southerners) or responsible for mass genocide (Nazis). You are becoming the embodiment of Poe's law.