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The sin and covering with skins was a singular event. A lamb without blemish was killed and skinned. The carcass might certainly have been used to prefigure the later Passover lamb.And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.” - Genesis 1:29
There was no flesh eating in the Garden of Eden, sorry. But I suspect even you know that full well. Quit trolling.
I know you didn't ask me, but I strongly disagreeafter eating this forbidden food and God not wanting us to be more knowledgeable...and not just a biblical story about disobedience they had with God by eating some fruit they were not suppose to
Quote the scriptureThe sin and covering with skins was a singular event. A lamb without blemish was killed and skinned. The carcass might certainly have been used to prefigure the later Passover lamb
1Timothy 4Peace be with you.
I am ignorant on this Biblical diet topic, so please view any of my silly questions and comments from this perspective!. ( I do need to now spend time studying it)
After reading your post and a couple of others, A thought popped in to my head, and maybe a real silly thought...
-----------
I wondered if eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that Eve, then Adam ate from, was actually us choosing to eat meat, and not just a vegan diet? I know it does not say that in what we are reading today in the Bible....
Why the thought came to me, is I was watching some documentary on human brain growth and science is claiming that when humans began to eat meat, our brains grew in size and we humans became much smarter, more KNOWLEDGEABLE.... And the story of eating the forbidden fruit, (yes I know it says fruit) from the tree of knowledge, might actually be describing when humans began eating meat and becoming smarter, more knowledgeable and this was original sin that we inherited....
With knowledge of both good and evil, after eating this forbidden food and God not wanting us to be more knowledgeable...and not just a biblical story about disobedience they had with God by eating some fruit they were not suppose to... Yes, they disobeyed God, but without further discussion that I as a layman am aware of, of God really not wanting us to become knowledgeable of the evil part of the Good and Evil? And by eating meat, is the point when science says humans had great advancement in knowledge?
Is this all mumbo jumbo....? Are my conjectures making any sense?
---------------------------
I am a meat eater...and boy do I crave and love it! Especially beef and chicken!
However, since the hubby and I have moved to rural Maine, we spend our time with all of God's creatures on a daily basis, we've befriended many different wild species, not just deer, and even from a distance watching how animals take care of their young, and each other as a heard or pack, and as a family unit....gives both of us a sense of awareness of God's creations and beauty....almost goose bumpy!
Just little things like a racoon with 5 baby raccoons, teaching them to crawl on her back, so she could cross the main country road in to the woods on the other side, then only to let them down once crossed to follow her again like little ducklings.... HOW did she know to do that...? How wonderful that she did know! All kinds of beautiful things like that from all of the creatures in the woods!
And every day we watch live, what viral you tube videos show on nature in amazement and aw, and constantly say to one another....GOSH! We don't know shit from shinola, about all that goes on in them woods and God's creatures. And hubby just mentioned about how cruel humans are on slaughtering animals that we eat.....
So, in our ignorance we both questioned if we should only be eating Kosher meat....wasn't that God's way of killing his creatures humanely??? It never crossed our minds that maybe we should not be eating meat at all...we never heard of such a thing being Biblical....and until reading it in this thread, I never knew there was even a Biblical argument and debate on it....
Where does Kosher come in?
Until Paul spoke of this in Timothy, was it spoken about by the apostles of Christ or by Jesus himself, in the Gospels???1Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times (that would be today) some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (guess who this is)
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats (this mean animal flesh, not vegetables), which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature (food animals) of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified (certain animals were 'set apart' as clean food) by the word of God and prayer
Probably wasn't an issue until later when different factions arose in the young church.Until Paul spoke of this in Timothy, was it spoken about by the apostles of Christ or by Jesus himself, in the Gospels???
You're not being honest hereForbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats
I was responding to another who had a question about it. We've actually beat this poor horse to death on other threads.You're not being honest here
And you're DETERMINED to make this thread another argument fore the cult of eating meat which the OP never intended
This is what the scripture actually says:
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods,
God never intended killing a d consuming His living creation as 'food.'
Did you know the Jerusalem Church directly under the apostles didn't eat meat and the writers of the organized ROMAN Church condemned this Jerusalem "sect'"?
I may get into that in another thread later today, Not sure if I'm in the mood to argue with you over this on the Sabbath.
But why not honor the intent of this thread instead of using it to justify your "need" to kill
Yes. You twisted the scriptures in those threads too.I was responding to another who had a question about it. We've actually beat this poor horse to death on other threads.
The scriptures are plain, we aren't to judge each other in food and drink or in other things as well.Yes. You twisted the scriptures in those threads too.
This practice grew with the growth of the paganized Roman gentile church founded by Simon the Sorcerer. The Church of God is still His LITTLE Flock. The true Church of God does not have a billion members and they have little in common with THAT church.
Peace be with you.
I am ignorant on this Biblical diet topic, so please view any of my silly questions and comments from this perspective!
After reading your post and a couple of others, A thought popped in to my head, and maybe a real silly thought...
-----------
I wondered if eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that Eve, then Adam ate from, was actually us choosing to eat meat, and not just a vegan diet? I know it does not say that in what we are reading today in the Bible....
Why the thought came to me, is I was watching some documentary on human brain growth and science is claiming that when humans began to eat meat, our brains grew in size and we humans became much smarter, more KNOWLEDGEABLE.... And the story of eating the forbidden fruit, (yes I know it says fruit) from the tree of knowledge, might actually be describing when humans began eating meat and becoming smarter, more knowledgeable and this was original sin that we inherited....
With knowledge of both good and evil, after eating this forbidden food and God not wanting us to be more knowledgeable...and not just a biblical story about disobedience they had with God by eating some fruit they were not suppose to... Yes, they disobeyed God, but without further discussion that I as a layman am aware of, of God really not wanting us to become knowledgeable of the evil part of the Good and Evil? And by eating meat, is the point when science says humans had great advancement in knowledge?
Is this all mumbo jumbo....? Are my conjectures making any sense?
---------------------------
I am a meat eater...and boy do I crave and love it! Especially beef and chicken!
However, since the hubby and I have moved to rural Maine, we spend our time with all of God's creatures on a daily basis, we've befriended many different wild species, not just deer, and even from a distance watching how animals take care of their young, and each other as a heard or pack, and as a family unit....gives both of us a sense of awareness of God's creations and beauty....almost goose bumpy!
Just little things like a racoon with 5 baby raccoons, teaching them to crawl on her back, so she could cross the main country road in to the woods on the other side, then only to let them down once crossed to follow her again like little ducklings.... HOW did she know to do that...? How wonderful that she did know! All kinds of beautiful things like that from all of the creatures in the woods!
And every day we watch live, what viral you tube videos show on nature in amazement and aw, and constantly say to one another....GOSH! We don't know shit from shinola, about all that goes on in them woods and God's creatures. And hubby just mentioned about how cruel humans are on slaughtering animals that we eat.....
So, in our ignorance we both questioned if we should only be eating Kosher meat....wasn't that God's way of killing his creatures humanely??? It never crossed our minds that maybe we should not be eating meat at all...we never heard of such a thing being Biblical....and until reading it in this thread, I never knew there was even a Biblical argument and debate on it....
Where does Kosher come in?
Until Paul spoke of this in Timothy, was it spoken about by the apostles of Christ or by Jesus himself, in the Gospels???
.Are fish animals? He ate fish, and Peter was a fisherman.
Fish, fishermen hold prominent places in Scripture
TUPELO, Miss. — Pop quiz: What were the first animals God created?www.gadsdentimes.com
TUPELO, Miss. — Pop quiz: What were the first animals God created?
A look at Genesis 1:20 reveals that before man, before livestock and all the creatures that move along the ground, before the before the birds in the sky, scripture says God made the waters teeming with fish.
The creatures of scale, fin, and shell continue to hold prominence through scripture, from the story of Jonah, swallowed by a great fish (Jonah 1:17), to Christ being given fish to eat after his resurrection (John 21:13).
When you think about it, the references are near endless. Jesus feeds the crowd of 5,000 with fish and bread. The first four disciples are fishermen. In Matthew 17:27, Peter, at Jesus’ instruction, finds money for a temple tax in the mouth of a caught fish.
Not to mention numerous hints of the economics of fishing in the Old Testament and the first century, including instructions on which fish were right for eating.
Sorry, catfish lovers. Water-dwellers without scales and fins — eel, catfish, shellfish — were regarded as unclean.
The first disciples Jesus calls — Peter, Andrew, James and John — are fishermen. Compared to the other disciples, scripture gives much insight into the lives of the profession, and the character of the first four.
Lambs were also eaten, according to Exodus passages, I forget which ones.
I didn’t see silly questions or mumbo jumbo at all! Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts, I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to encounter a fellow Christian on this site who is actually open to biblical veganism. Seriously, that makes my day!
And wow, the timing of this post is amazing, because I kid you not, just the other day I bought a book on Amazon, and guess what the title is? It’s called ‘The Real Forbidden Fruit: How Meat Destroys Paradise And How Veganism Can Get It Back’ by Jeff Popick.
So let me back up a bit... Recently, a Christian vegan organization that I’m a part of shared an article on Facebook on this specific topic. In the comments of that post, there were some who agreed with it, others who didn't agree with it, and others who were open to it but wanted to look into it more. It's definitely controversial.
I personally have not looked into it enough to conclude anything, so as of now I don’t agree with that interpretation. However I AM open to being convinced, if it is actually true.
That’s why I recently got that book, because I heard good things about it, I heard it presents a really good case for that interpretation. I should be receiving it by Tuesday or Wednesday, so I’m excited to read it.
All that said…Even if the interpretation that flesh was the ‘forbidden fruit’ is not correct, it doesn’t matter to me anyway in terms of my position on veganism. Why, because I have no doubt at all in my mind that God’s perfect will is for us to NOT eat His beloved animals, just as it clearly states in the beginning (Genesis 1:29-30) and in the end, when God restores that Edenic world of peace and harmony that was HIS intent for all creation in the first place (Isaiah 11:6-9).
So, I say this from the bottom of my heart, there is VERY strong case for biblical veganism. Peace and harmony between humans and animals, and LOVE for all His innocent creatures is what God wants, it was God’s idea in the first place, and it is His ultimate plan.
As Christians, I believe we should be prepared for the coming Kingdom, as opposed to fighting against it, as some do (as we can see in some comments here on this thread.) Jesus taught us to want and to pray for God's perfect will "on earth as it is in heaven." That is one of the strongest scriptures I can think of for going vegan for God and the animals, but that is just one of many.
I know exactly what you mean! I too love animals, I always have, but I was also a meat eater like everyone else, and I too loved eating meat. At one point, maybe a year or so before going vegan I even wrote a blog post that was me questioning the contradiction of loving animals but eating them. It’s funny to me now, looking back to see what I said back then, because now the answer is so clear to me... and now I am not only a Christian vegan, but I actually have a ministry on this topic. I make videos, blog posts, etc.
That is so cool that you get to spend time with God’s creatures on a daily basis, and get to see them up close! I’m jealous!
I couldn’t agree with you more that it’s amazing when you learn more that we didn’t realize before. I too have learned so much in the last several years about animals. Before going vegan I had no idea that cows are playful, social, and definitely more intelligent than I thought. And other animals that people eat, like pigs, chickens, lambs, etc, are so much like dogs or cats, they all are sentient, they all have individual personalities, they are love to play and enjoy life, just like dogs and cats!
Now it is truly heartbreaking and horrifying to me to see what the most innocent beings among us go through on a daily basis. The animals people eat are similar to small children. They are innocent. They trust us, and we betray them, in the worst ways . We (when I say ‘we’ I mean mankind) exploit the hell out of them, and put them through so much pain, misery and suffering…. and it is completely unnecessary! I truly believe that it grieves God’s heart to see what is going on, because again, it is clear in the Bible that God’s perfect will is peace and harmony among humans and animals…not exploitation, cruelty, abuse and continuous needless violence and bloodshed. If anything, I believe that is what the lowercase “god of this world” wants.
I know this is off topic, but I want to share some videos I’ve made on this topic.
Here is a playlist of an ongoing video series on scriptures that support veganism. They are very short videos, so if you're interested you can go through them kinda quickly.
Here are a few other videos you might want to check out, when you have time:
This one has an age restriction on it, so you have to be logged in to Google / YouTube to see it:
And a couple recent shorts I made:
Ok, I'll stop posting videos now.
But anyway, thanks for your post Care4all, and I hope I answered your questions and gave you some stuff to think about! Many blessings!
After his CONVERSION, Peter lived on BREAD and olives and SOMETIMES VEGETABLES.Are fish animals? He ate fish, and Peter was a fisherman
After his CONVERSION, Peter lived on BREAD and olives and SOMETIMES VEGETABLES.
Matthew ate seeds, nuts and vegetables -- pretty much my diet, although my diet isn't nearly that restrictive
Provide the scripture stating that. It actually nowhere says that.Eating meat didn't cause Eve to disobey God. God himself killed the first animal because of Eve's sin, the forerunner of the substitutionary death portrayed later in the Passover service.
The Bible is famously short on details. One can fill the gaps with reasonable inferences and conclusions. I have concluded that God killed lamb instead of killing Adam and Eve. The meat was roasted and eaten in a "substitutionary death" ceremony.Provide the scripture stating that. It actually nowhere says that.
After his CONVERSION, Peter lived on BREAD and olives and SOMETIMES VEGETABLES.
Matthew ate seeds, nuts and vegetables -- pretty much my diet, although my diet isn't nearly that restrictive
