Zone1 The Book of Enoch...How should Christians think about it, and why does it matter?

[Care4all]

I didn’t see silly questions or mumbo jumbo at all! Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts, I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to encounter a fellow Christian on this site who is actually open to biblical veganism. Seriously, that makes my day!

And wow, the timing of this post is amazing, because I kid you not, just the other day I bought a book on Amazon, and guess what the title is? It’s called ‘The Real Forbidden Fruit: How Meat Destroys Paradise And How Veganism Can Get It Back’ by Jeff Popick.

So let me back up a bit... Recently, a Christian vegan organization that I’m a part of shared an article on Facebook on this specific topic. In the comments of that post, there were some who agreed with it, others who didn't agree with it, and others who were open to it but wanted to look into it more. It's definitely controversial.

I personally have not looked into it enough to conclude anything, so as of now I don’t agree with that interpretation. However I AM open to being convinced, if it is actually true.

That’s why I recently got that book, because I heard good things about it, I heard it presents a really good case for that interpretation. I should be receiving it by Tuesday or Wednesday, so I’m excited to read it.

All that said…Even if the interpretation that flesh was the ‘forbidden fruit’ is not correct, it doesn’t matter to me anyway in terms of my position on veganism. Why, because I have no doubt at all in my mind that God’s perfect will is for us to NOT eat His beloved animals, just as it clearly states in the beginning (Genesis 1:29-30) and in the end, when God restores that Edenic world of peace and harmony that was HIS intent for all creation in the first place (Isaiah 11:6-9).

So, I say this from the bottom of my heart, there is VERY strong case for biblical veganism. Peace and harmony between humans and animals, and LOVE for all His innocent creatures is what God wants, it was God’s idea in the first place, and it is His ultimate plan.

As Christians, I believe we should be prepared for the coming Kingdom, as opposed to fighting against it, as some do (as we can see in some comments here on this thread.) Jesus taught us to want and to pray for God's perfect will "on earth as it is in heaven." That is one of the strongest scriptures I can think of for going vegan for God and the animals, but that is just one of many.





I know exactly what you mean! I too love animals, I always have, but I was also a meat eater like everyone else, and I too loved eating meat. At one point, maybe a year or so before going vegan I even wrote a blog post that was me questioning the contradiction of loving animals but eating them. It’s funny to me now, looking back to see what I said back then, because now the answer is so clear to me... and now I am not only a Christian vegan, but I actually have a ministry on this topic. I make videos, blog posts, etc.

That is so cool that you get to spend time with God’s creatures on a daily basis, and get to see them up close! I’m jealous!

I couldn’t agree with you more that it’s amazing when you learn more that we didn’t realize before. I too have learned so much in the last several years about animals. Before going vegan I had no idea that cows are playful, social, and definitely more intelligent than I thought. And other animals that people eat, like pigs, chickens, lambs, etc, are so much like dogs or cats, they all are sentient, they all have individual personalities, they are love to play and enjoy life, just like dogs and cats!

Now it is truly heartbreaking and horrifying to me to see what the most innocent beings among us go through on a daily basis. The animals people eat are similar to small children. They are innocent. They trust us, and we betray them, in the worst ways . We (when I say ‘we’ I mean mankind) exploit the hell out of them, and put them through so much pain, misery and suffering…. and it is completely unnecessary! I truly believe that it grieves God’s heart to see what is going on, because again, it is clear in the Bible that God’s perfect will is peace and harmony among humans and animals…not exploitation, cruelty, abuse and continuous needless violence and bloodshed. If anything, I believe that is what the lowercase “god of this world” wants.

I know this is off topic, but I want to share some videos I’ve made on this topic.

Here is a playlist of an ongoing video series on scriptures that support veganism. They are very short videos, so if you're interested you can go through them kinda quickly.




Here are a few other videos you might want to check out, when you have time:



This one has an age restriction on it, so you have to be logged in to Google / YouTube to see it:




And a couple recent shorts I made:






Ok, I'll stop posting videos now.

But anyway, thanks for your post Care4all, and I hope I answered your questions and gave you some stuff to think about! Many blessings!

No, thank you...I've enjoyed the discussion, and the learning about your perspective on this!

 

[Care4all]

Are fish animals? He ate fish, and Peter was a fisherman.

Fish, fishermen hold prominent places in Scripture

TUPELO, Miss. — Pop quiz: What were the first animals God created?

www.gadsdentimes.com

TUPELO, Miss. — Pop quiz: What were the first animals God created?

A look at Genesis 1:20 reveals that before man, before livestock and all the creatures that move along the ground, before the before the birds in the sky, scripture says God made the waters teeming with fish.

The creatures of scale, fin, and shell continue to hold prominence through scripture, from the story of Jonah, swallowed by a great fish (Jonah 1:17), to Christ being given fish to eat after his resurrection (John 21:13).

When you think about it, the references are near endless. Jesus feeds the crowd of 5,000 with fish and bread. The first four disciples are fishermen. In Matthew 17:27, Peter, at Jesus’ instruction, finds money for a temple tax in the mouth of a caught fish.

Not to mention numerous hints of the economics of fishing in the Old Testament and the first century, including instructions on which fish were right for eating.

Sorry, catfish lovers. Water-dwellers without scales and fins — eel, catfish, shellfish — were regarded as unclean.

The first disciples Jesus calls — Peter, Andrew, James and John — are fishermen. Compared to the other disciples, scripture gives much insight into the lives of the profession, and the character of the first four.

Lambs were also eaten, according to Exodus passages, I forget which ones.

The Prodigal Son story, the father had a fattened calf killed for the son's returning feast...is another one I remember....

 

[Thunk]

I wondered if eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that Eve, then Adam ate from, was actually us choosing to eat meat,

I don't thunk that's a silly question at all...It's a good one.

I wonder if the decision changed them somehow...like maybe they were beings of light and when they ate (disobeyed) they turned into flesh and bone. And that "original sin" would be passed down to each and every one of us.

I also wonder about the phrase "God made man in His own image".

Does it mean that God has 2 arms and 2 legs? Or might it mean that God asks the same question we all ask...Who Am I? Why do I exist? What is My purpose?

 

[braalian]

Spending coupions amounts of time and energy constructing timelines and family trees for fictional characters?

It’s kind of like being a comic book geek or a Game of Thrones nerd.

 

[DudleySmith]

Spending coupions amounts of time and energy constructing timelines and family trees for fictional characters?

It’s kind of like being a comic book geek or a Game of Thrones nerd.

Yes, theology is over most people's heads; they're more into mindless hedonism than bigger issues, which is why it's a mystery why you feel some compulsion to read them and post infantile pseudo-intellectual rubbish in them, unless you're a closet pagan and are scared the Evul Xians will take away your breakfast beers and meth or something. We know why the faggots and other deviants are terrified, though. They've come so far with the grooming and sexual mutilations of children they now fear being tossed back in the closets with the doors nailed shut, where they belong.

 

[braalian]

unless you're a closet pagan and and are scared the Evul Xians will take away your breakfast beers and meth or something.

Yes that’s ridiculous, but no more or less ridiculous than b thinking some dude in the sky will wave his hand and “rapturing” away the faithful.

It’s all dumb.

 

[Thunk]

Spending coupions amounts of time and energy constructing timelines and family trees for fictional characters?

Well...THAT was obnoxious!

 

[braalian]

Well...THAT was obnoxious!

How so?

 

[Thunk]

How so?

I will not help you derail this thread by responding further.

Done. Finished. Finito.

 

[Woodznutz]

Spending coupions amounts of time and energy constructing timelines and family trees for fictional characters?

It’s kind of like being a comic book geek or a Game of Thrones nerd.

Underpinning Christianity is broad based benevolence. We need more of that.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The Prodigal Son story, the father had a fattened calf killed for the son's returning feast...is another one I remember....

Jesus can tell a story of human behavior without endorsing a particular behavior.

 

[Woodznutz]

The Prodigal Son story, the father had a fattened calf killed for the son's returning feast...is another one I remember....

Abraham also fed meat to the Lord and two angels.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Abraham also fed meat to the Lord and two angels.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.


Do you dismiss and reject the early writings concerning the apostles and First Century Church of God? I don't. They also had multiple wives -- something Jesus told us was never God's intent for Man

 

[buttercup]

Underpinning Christianity is broad based benevolence. We need more of that.

OH, the irony.

 

[buttercup]

I also wonder about the phrase "God made man in His own image".

Does it mean that God has 2 arms and 2 legs? Or might it mean that God asks the same question we all ask...Who Am I? Why do I exist? What is My purpose?

Thanks for all your posts. Speaking of humans being made in the image of God... I was thinking about maybe starting a thread on that topic when I have some time. There are a few different ideas about what it means, but in recent years I'm starting to think that most Christians have either a wrong or incomplete idea on 'Imago Dei.' The reason I want to start a thread on it is because I think it's not only interesting but a very important topic, and understanding it correctly matters. I'll explain why in that thread.

 

[Thunk]

I think it's not only interesting but a very important topic, and understanding it correctly matters. I'll explain why in that thread.

I look forward to it.

 

[Woodznutz]

They also had multiple wives -- something Jesus told us was never God's intent for Man

Out of honesty you should present the whole scripture, or do you think I'm Biblically illiterate?

 

[surada]

Yes, there is. A lot of it parallels what is written in the Bible. So it doesn't make much sense for Christians to reject the whole thing, not only because much of it parallels what's in the Old Testament, but also because the Bible itself references the Book of Enoch in a few places.

I just thought of something. I have to look into this more, so I don't know if this is true (and this is controversial) but I heard that one of the reasons the Jews did not include it in their Canon was because it contains prophecies about the Messiah that didn't go along with what the rabbis were teaching.

Remember that Enoch is from the second century BC.

 

[surada]

I don't thunk that's a silly question at all...It's a good one.

I wonder if the decision changed them somehow...like maybe they were beings of light and when they ate (disobeyed) they turned into flesh and bone. And that "original sin" would be passed down to each and every one of us.

I also wonder about the phrase "God made man in His own image".

Does it mean that God has 2 arms and 2 legs? Or might it mean that God asks the same question we all ask...Who Am I? Why do I exist? What is My purpose?

Original sin wasn't doctrine until the fourth century. Remember, Jews and Muslims don't believe in it.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Out of honesty you should present the whole scripture, or do you think I'm Biblically illiterate?

I didn't quote it because I assume you know it.