The Bush Presidency: A Retrospective

[editec]

I don't know, Clinton did a pretty good job.

Clinton was not facing what Obama is now facing. Clinton was lucky in that respect.

And Carter, in my opinion, was sabotaged by the GOP. Sure he went through some tough times, but no tougher than Bush 1 & 2. If you blame Carter for his economy, then blame Bush 1 & 2 for theirs.

Carter was mostly sabotaged by the DNC, Sealy

And Carter would have won re-election had the GOP/CIA run by Bush 1 not made a deal with the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election. Then we started selling Iran weapons?

It was the economy that totally sank Carter's bid for re-election, just as the economy totally sank the Republicans chances this time around.

If you don't know what I'm referring to, see Iran/Contra Affair and October Surprise.

I am fully aware the Aytollah Homani proved to the rest of the world how easy it was to manipulate the American voters.

Homani was Reagan's very valuable ally to winning that election, with the FED coming in a very close second, OPEC coming in third, and a sand storm that ended the rescue operation coming in a close fourth

Carter's actions surrounding the hostages were mixed, I think.

He didn't handle it well at the beginning. Among other things he hung his presidency on getting them back alive and well and by doing so he gave Iran enormous political advantage. That was extremely DUMB.


And while he did manage to keep them alive, their captivity hung over him appearing to be a continuous failure of his administration and embarrassment to the pride of the American people.

 

[del]

I don't know, Clinton did a pretty good job.

And Carter, in my opinion, was sabotaged by the GOP. Sure he went through some tough times, but no tougher than Bush 1 & 2. If you blame Carter for his economy, then blame Bush 1 & 2 for theirs.

And Carter would have won re-election had the GOP/CIA run by Bush 1 not made a deal with the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election. Then we started selling Iran weapons?

If you don't know what I'm referring to, see Iran/Contra Affair and October Surprise.

say what? the GOP sabotaged carter? how exactly? c'mon, throw another hamster on that wheel inside your head andexplain to me how the GOP caused double digit inflation and interest rates, gas shortages and hogh unemployment. this should be rich.

 

[Red Dawn]

Carter's actions surrounding the hostages were mixed, I think.

He didn't handle it well at the beginning. Among other things he hung his presidency on getting them back alive and well and by doing so he gave Iran enormous political advantage. That was extremely DUMB.


And while he did manage to keep them alive, their captivity hung over him appearing to be a continuous failure of his administration and embarrassment to the pride of the American people.

This is totally true.

Reagan learned from that mistake. Even though Reagan had his own hostage crises, where americans were held hostage in Lebanon for years, Reagan didn't allow it to consume him or to become a political liability.

Although you have to admit, on balance, Carter ultimately handled his hostrage crisis better than Reagan did. Carter never caved into to the terrorists in the way Reagan did. Reagan won their freedom by caving to terrorists, and illegally trading high tech weapons to Iran for their freedom.

Carter would have been run out of the country, if he had negotiated and caved to terrorists, in the way reagan did.

 

[sealybobo]

Clinton was not facing what Obama is now facing. Clinton was lucky in that respect.





Carter was mostly sabotaged by the DNC, Sealy




It was the economy that totally sank Carter's bid for re-election, just as the economy totally sank the Republicans chances this time around.




I am fully aware the Aytollah Homani proved to the rest of the world how easy it was to manipulate the American voters.

Homani was Reagan's very valuable ally to winning that election, with the FED coming in a very close second, OPEC coming in third, and a sand storm that ended the rescue operation coming in a close fourth

Carter's actions surrounding the hostages were mixed, I think.

He didn't handle it well at the beginning. Among other things he hung his presidency on getting them back alive and well and by doing so he gave Iran enormous political advantage. That was extremely DUMB.


And while he did manage to keep them alive, their captivity hung over him appearing to be a continuous failure of his administration and embarrassment to the pride of the American people.

Can't argue with any of this.

 

[sealybobo]

This is totally true.

Reagan learned from that mistake. Even though Reagan had his own hostage crises, where americans were held hostage in Lebanon for years, Reagan didn't allow it to consume him or to become a political liability.

Although you have to admit, on balance, Carter ultimately handled his hostrage crisis better than Reagan did. Carter never caved into to the terrorists in the way Reagan did. Reagan won their freedom by caving to terrorists, and illegally trading high tech weapons to Iran for their freedom.

Carter would have been run out of the country, if he had negotiated and caved to terrorists, in the way reagan did.

The Beirut barracks bombing was a major incident on October 23, 1983, during the Lebanese Civil War. Two truck bombs struck separate buildings in Beirut that housed United States and French military forces—members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon—killing hundreds of servicemen, the majority of whom were U.S. Marines. The blasts led to the withdrawal of the international peacekeeping force from Lebanon, where they had been stationed since the Israeli 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

 

[sealybobo]

say what? the GOP sabotaged carter? how exactly? c'mon, throw another hamster on that wheel inside your head andexplain to me how the GOP caused double digit inflation and interest rates, gas shortages and hogh unemployment. this should be rich.

You are the perfect example of "people who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."

How did the GOP cause double digit inflation from 2000-present? They spent $10 billion a month in Iraq, borrowed it from the Chinese and had the Federal Reserve print more money when they ran out.

How did they create the gas problem? Speculation and collusion and gouging.

High unemployment? They sent jobs overseas and hired illegals to do "jobs Americans won't do for less than minimum wage".

 

[del]

I don't know, Clinton did a pretty good job.

And Carter, in my opinion, was sabotaged by the GOP. Sure he went through some tough times, but no tougher than Bush 1 & 2. If you blame Carter for his economy, then blame Bush 1 & 2 for theirs.

And Carter would have won re-election had the GOP/CIA run by Bush 1 not made a deal with the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election. Then we started selling Iran weapons?

If you don't know what I'm referring to, see Iran/Contra Affair and October Surprise.

say what? the GOP sabotaged carter? how exactly? c'mon, throw another hamster on that wheel inside your head andexplain to me how the GOP caused double digit inflation and interest rates, gas shortages and hogh unemployment. this should be rich.

You are the perfect example of "people who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."

How did the GOP cause double digit inflation from 2000-present? They spent $10 billion a month in Iraq, borrowed it from the Chinese and had the Federal Reserve print more money when they ran out.

How did they create the gas problem? Speculation and collusion and gouging.

High unemployment? They sent jobs overseas and hired illegals to do "jobs Americans won't do for less than minimum wage".

try to stay on topic, rain man. your contention is that the GOP sabotaged carter's presidency. i say you're full of shit.

now try again.

hint:carter was president from 1977-1981, so your usual talking points don't apply.

 

[Andrew2382]

How about not 1 single attack on US Soil since 9/11?

When you go into work safley this morning, you can thank Bush.

 

[Andrew2382]

You are the perfect example of "people who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."

How did the GOP cause double digit inflation from 2000-present? They spent $10 billion a month in Iraq, borrowed it from the Chinese and had the Federal Reserve print more money when they ran out.

How did they create the gas problem? Speculation and collusion and gouging.

High unemployment? They sent jobs overseas and hired illegals to do "jobs Americans won't do for less than minimum wage".

Yeah, too bad we spend more on liberal immigration policies per month then we do on the war

Are you fucking dense...gas prices have gone down...not because of speculation you dunce....its always been supply and demand

Prices are low now because supply is so high and the demand has gone down. Whyd o you think the prices haven't gone up with OPEC cutting down production...if it was speculators it would have gone up at that point again

 

[Andrew2382]

I don't know, Clinton did a pretty good job.

Yeah Clinton did a great job

If by bankrupting social security to balance his own budget is good...I mean when you rob peter to pay paul I guess everyone wins?

He also had a chance to take out Bin Laden and didn't do it and he got away....thats a good job

He also ammended the CRA which helped get into the position we are today

O he also got impeached by the house

Quite a resume

 

[Munin]

How about not 1 single attack on US Soil since 9/11?

When you go into work safley this morning, you can thank Bush.

Wasn't 1 single attack enough? For 9/11 you can thank Bush, you seem to forget that.

9/11 itself was the worst National security desaster in US history, I find it incredible that you think his biggest achievement was that he never managed to let it happen twice: like one time wasn't enough? He only managed the 3 WTC towers get destroyed once: is that his achievement?

 

[Andrew2382]

Wasn't 1 single attack enough? For 9/11 you can thank Bush, you seem to forget that.

9/11 itself was the worst National security desaster in US history, I find it incredible that you think his biggest achievement was that he never managed to let it happen twice: like one time wasn't enough? He only managed the 3 WTC towers get destroyed once: is that his achievement?

Yes, lets blame him for something he was in office for 9 months for, and all the intel came from the Clinton administration

Thats like blaming clinton for the 93 atatcks even though he was only in office for 2 months

 

[Munin]

Yes, lets blame him for something he was in office for 9 months for, and all the intel came from the Clinton administration

Thats like blaming clinton for the 93 atatcks even though he was only in office for 2 months

9 months is long enough to avoid this, it is more then half a year (a very long time for any administration: almost 1/4 of his term)

You can't blame Clinton for this: Even Bush himself, Karl Rove admitted that 9/11 was their responsibility and the bush administration is to take blame for 9/11.

 

[sealybobo]

If by bankrupting social security to balance his own budget is good...I mean when you rob peter to pay paul I guess everyone wins?

He also had a chance to take out Bin Laden and didn't do it and he got away....thats a good job

He also ammended the CRA which helped get into the position we are today

O he also got impeached by the house

Quite a resume

Bush & Tom Delay REALLY bankrupted social security. Clinton may have tapped into it, but bankrupting it was the GOP's agenda. And again, this is why I didn't vote for Hillary.

Who was Bin Ladin before 9-11? You're a right wing idiot.

Impeached? For a BJ? And Bush/Chaney haven't been impeached?

Fucking idiot. Wake up.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, lets blame him for something he was in office for 9 months for, and all the intel came from the Clinton administration

Thats like blaming clinton for the 93 atatcks even though he was only in office for 2 months

How many months will it take for Obama to be "ready"?

Yes, 9 months was more than enough time, you partisan ****.

Especially when Bush was warned.

Heck, you know they let 9-11 happen because otherwise, they would have NEVER sold us on invading Iraq, or their bullshit tax breaks to the rich and corporations.

Fucking stupid!

 

[sealybobo]

Yeah, too bad we spend more on liberal immigration policies per month then we do on the war

/QUOTE]

Prove that.

 

[Andrew2382]

Bush & Tom Delay REALLY bankrupted social security. Clinton may have tapped into it, but bankrupting it was the GOP's agenda. And again, this is why I didn't vote for Hillary.

Who was Bin Ladin before 9-11? You're a right wing idiot.

Impeached? For a BJ? And Bush/Chaney haven't been impeached?

Fucking idiot. Wake up.

exactly, who was bin laden before 9/11...to Clinton in his own words


"Bin Laden was a legal issue not a national security issue"

Good call on that one.

No Clinton didn't rape social security

you obviously don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Once again, Bill Clinton is trying to outdo Congress in protecting Social Security. Two years ago, he challenged the Congress to save 60 percent of the surplus for Social Security. In this year’s budget, Clinton is proposing a "Social Security solvency lock-box" that is intended to secure every dollar of the Social Security surplus for Social Security. While this plan may conjure up images of stacks of cash waiting in Fort Knox for the Baby Boomers to retire, the reality is that his plan leaves the vault empty when the program begins to run large cash deficits in just 14 years.

There is only one place to put the Social Security surplus - in the Personal Retirement Accounts of hard working Americans

Clinton’s lock-box plan is nothing more than a scheme to use more than $3 trillion in Social Security surpluses to buy down federal debt. In exchange, the Social Security trust fund gets another $3 trillion worth of IOUs. To be sure, most Americans would rather pay down the debt than use Social Security’s surpluses to fund pork barrel projects. But make no mistake, once that money is spent – to buy down debt or fund new programs – it will not be there to cover Social Security’s long-term liabilities.

And those liabilities are enormous. As most Americans are becoming aware, in 2014 Social Security will begin spending more on benefits than it collects in payroll taxes. Ten years later, its annual deficits will reach $370 billion, and by 2034, when today’s 33-year olds begin to retire, the program will be mired in $800 billion deficits. Over the next 75 years, those deficits total $122 trillion, or $19 trillion after adjusting for inflation.

As most Americans are also learning, there are only three ways to deal with this financial crisis: raise taxes, cut benefits, or borrow more money. These options will be the same regardless of how many IOUs are in the Social Security trust fund or how much debt is retired over the next decade. Indeed, even if Washington were to retire the entire national debt this afternoon, Social Security would still begin deficit spending by the time today’s five-year olds enter college.

But Clinton’s plan is likely to appeal to most Americans because it plays to their desire to reduce the national debt and it takes advantage of their misperceptions (as well as the media’s) of Social Security’s fictional bookkeeping system. The bottom line is that adding $3 trillion in IOUs to the Social Security trust fund, as the president’s plan would do, can make the system look healthier on paper, but it does not create any real assets that can be drawn down to cover the system’s shortfalls.

Most government experts acknowledge that Social Security’s trust fund is little more than a ledger entry. Indeed, in last year’s budget documents, experts within the Clinton’s own Office of Management and Budget wrote:

"These balances [within the trust fund] are available to finance future benefit payments and other trust fund expenditures – but only in a bookkeeping sense. Unlike the assets of private pension plans, [government trust funds] do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits."
The Congressional Research Service has written much the same thing:

"While the trust funds have an important role in monitoring the finances of the program and maintaining its fiscal discipline, they are basically accounting devices. The federal securities they hold are not assets for the government…[they are] a form of IOU from one of its accounts to another…Those claims are not resources the government has at its disposal to pay for future Social Security claims. Simply put, the trust funds do not reflect an independent store of money for the program or the government…"
There is only one "lock-box" that will honestly keep politicians from raiding Social Security – a personal retirement account owned by individual workers. So instead of using these surpluses to buy down debt and create a mountain of IOUs, Congress and the White House should allow workers to divert their portion of the surplus payroll taxes into personal retirement accounts under their control. Personal retirement accounts are not only the best way of building individual retirement wealth, they effectively "pre-fund" Social Security which will dramatically reduce its long-term liabilities.

This year, the Social Security surplus will total $167 billion – equal to more than $1,100 for every worker who currently pays taxes into the program. Rebating this surplus to workers would finance a payroll tax cut of about 4 percentage points (out of the 12.4 percent payroll tax) without affecting current benefit payments. This means that a couple making $50,000 annually could put $2,000 into their account each year, or $20,000 over the next decade.

If American workers were allowed take the money Clinton wants to use to buy down debt, and invest it in their own personal retirement accounts earning, say, 8 percent annually, they would own nearly $6 trillion in assets by the time Social Security goes into deficit in 2014; and, they would own $56 trillion in assets by the time the trust fund runs out of IOUs in 2034. Talk about owning a piece of the rock.


Americans clearly want to "save" Social Security and pay down the national debt. But they should not fall for gimmicks, such as Clinton’s "lock-box," that promise to do both with the same money. If we’re going to pay down the debt we should use the savings from spending cuts or the sale of unneeded assets, not a raid Social Security’s surplus. There is only one place to put the Social Security surplus, in the personal retirement accounts of hard working Americans.

Clinton’s $3 Trillion Raid on Social Security -- FreedomWorks.org

 

[Andrew2382]

How many months will it take for Obama to be "ready"?

Yes, 9 months was more than enough time, you partisan ****.

Especially when Bush was warned.

Heck, you know they let 9-11 happen because otherwise, they would have NEVER sold us on invading Iraq, or their bullshit tax breaks to the rich and corporations.

Fucking stupid!

wow, its funny hearing you call anyone a partisan **** when you are th ebiggest hack on these boards you douchebag

You would admit the world was flat if pelosi proclaimed it.

And actually it was 8 months not 9...Yeah, bush was warned and Clintonw as warned.

You seem to forget that Bush was getting his intel from what was left over from the Clinton administration...

Has an attack happened since Bush implmented his policies?

Yes, they let 9/11 happen...god you're a fucking idiot, put your tin foil hat on

No wonder Detroit is going down the shitter, with people like you living there

 

[Munin]

That's who Republicans cater to. People who don't know what they are talking about.

You can't lie to Americans and tell us that Iranians are evil if enough of us visit Iran and see our government is lying.

Same with Russia. How many of us visited Russia or knew any Russians during the Cold war? They couldn't leave and we couldn't visit.

The biggest enemy of bigotry and racism is travel.

lol, this somehow reminds me of something a republican Vice Presidential candidate said and someone mocking her: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psyo4JDbJJ4]YouTube - Sarah Palin: I Can See Russia From My House, Tina Fey[/ame]

 

[sealybobo]

You would admit the world was flat if pelosi proclaimed it.

And actually it was 8 months not 9...Yeah, bush was warned and Clintonw as warned.

You seem to forget that Bush was getting his intel from what was left over from the Clinton administration...

Has an attack happened since Bush implmented his policies?

You'll hear me speak ill of Pelosi & Reed over the next few years. But, I never once heard you bitch or even mention Boehner, Delay or Hastert. Do you even know who these people are? You turned a partisan blind eye. I'm sorry I was dogging your precious party, but I had to, because you were turning a fucking blind eye!!!!!

Clinton was never attacked again after his first year in office. So you give him credit like you give Bush, right?

And wasn't Clinton getting hit in 93 and the USS Cole getting hit enough of a warning for Bush?

And Obama gets a free terrorist attack? Does every president get one free pass?

Anyone that says the line, "bush wasn't hit again since 9-11, is a partisan cuntbag!!! That means you!!!

Here, we can settle this argument right here and now. Remember a couple years ago a reporter asked Bush about Bin Ladin and Bush said, "to be honest, i don't think about him that much".

He doesn't think of ENEMY NUMBER ONE? The man who planned the largest terrorist attack on US history?

Can you imagine if you had a quote in 1998 from Clinton saying those exact words?

You already blame Clinton for Bush's blunder. Amazing that you give Bush a pass for getting caught with his pants down on 9-11. Totally incompetent.

Thank God America voted the idiots that represent your way of thinking out of office. Hopefully it will be a lifetime before your party gets control of government back. Because you guys really really sucked at it. No if ands or buts about that.