The Christian Tithe ripoff.

[Mickiel]

Do you think there are pennies in heaven? Or dimes? You think God uses dollar bills? Hey , there is no money in heaven.

What's God going to do with money?

 

[ding]

Anything concrete can be used as evidence, you just need the proper trial or circumstance to use it in.

Tangible evidence is analyzed during an investigation and presented at trial. We're not at the trial phase, we are still in the investigation phase. You still have not acknowledged that tangible items can be used as evidence and that information can be obtained from them. You want to skip these steps and go straight to judgement. It doesn't work that way.

You're taking evidence and attributing it to an invisible person without any solid reason to do so. You'd be thrown out of court. If not laughed out.

No. I am not. I am merely asking the question if tangible items can be used as evidence and can information can be obtained from it.

You'd be thrown out of court. If not laughed out.

Like I wrote before, we are not at the trial phase yet. We are still in the investigation phase. So, there is no court to be laughed out of. But if there were, the only person who would be getting laughed out of court would be the person saying that tangible items can NOT be used as evidence and that information can NOT be obtained from them.

But I don't have an invisible friend telling not to be snooty or I'll roast in a fire forever, lol.

I don't either, lol.

If you want to claim that "the next world is between you and god", then you'll have to prove god.

No. I don't. It will be what it will be regardless of what you are I write. I wish you the best.

Go for it.

No. That wouldn't make any sense because all I am trying to do right now is to get you to accept or reject that tangible items can be used as evidence and that information can be obtained from them. Right now it seems like you are rejecting this concept.

Otherwise don't claim such things and then deflect to the same phrase about not trying to prove god (which you are, but failing epically) every time.

I see it differently than you do. I am trying to figure out if you believe that tangible items can be used as evidence and that information can be obtained from them. You are wanting for me to prove to you that God exists. I have already told you that doesn't make sense until we agree on what can be used as evidence. So, I'm not going to be able to do what you want me to do until we resolve this issue. Until then I suggest you comment the way you want and I'll do the same. Fair enough?

If you don't know what "supernatural protection while doing missions" are, then why did you mention it as something your invisible friend does?

I never wrote that. You are confusing me with someone else.

 

[Mudda]

Anything concrete can be used as evidence, you just need the proper trial or circumstance to use it in.

Tangible evidence is analyzed during an investigation and presented at trial. We're not at the trial phase, we are still in the investigation phase. You still have not acknowledged that tangible items can be used as evidence and that information can be obtained from them. You want to skip these steps and go straight to judgement. It doesn't work that way.

You're taking evidence and attributing it to an invisible person without any solid reason to do so. You'd be thrown out of court. If not laughed out.

No. I am not. I am merely asking the question if tangible items can be used as evidence and can information can be obtained from it.

You'd be thrown out of court. If not laughed out.

Like I wrote before, we are not at the trial phase yet. We are still in the investigation phase. So, there is no court to be laughed out of. But if there were, the only person who would be getting laughed out of court would be the person saying that tangible items can NOT be used as evidence and that information can NOT be obtained from them.

But I don't have an invisible friend telling not to be snooty or I'll roast in a fire forever, lol.

I don't either, lol.

If you want to claim that "the next world is between you and god", then you'll have to prove god.

No. I don't. It will be what it will be regardless of what you are I write. I wish you the best.

Go for it.

No. That wouldn't make any sense because all I am trying to do right now is to get you to accept or reject that tangible items can be used as evidence and that information can be obtained from them. Right now it seems like you are rejecting this concept.

Otherwise don't claim such things and then deflect to the same phrase about not trying to prove god (which you are, but failing epically) every time.

I see it differently than you do. I am trying to figure out if you believe that tangible items can be used as evidence and that information can be obtained from them. You are wanting for me to prove to you that God exists. I have already told you that doesn't make sense until we figure out what evidence you will accept. So, I'm not going to be able to do that until we resolve this issue. Until then I suggest you comment the way you want and I'll do the same. Fair enough?

If you don't know what "supernatural protection while doing missions" are, then why did you mention it as something your invisible friend does?

I never wrote that. You are confusing me with someone else.

I already said that anything concrete can be used as evidence, what more are you looking for?
As for "the next world is between you and god", you're assuming that a god exists, when no one has ever proven such a thing. Not even your evidence proves this.

 

[Mickiel]

The truth is being given to little unknown websites and religions , but hidden from giant Christianity ;

The Lie of Tithing

 

[ding]

I already said that anything concrete can be used as evidence, what more are you looking for?

Yes, I agree that you did just write that, but you then proceeded to dismiss that it can be used as evidence for a Creator. So basically you have placed a caveat on it. Look, either tangible items can be used as evidence and information can be gathered from it or it can't. You can't pick and choose when and where those attributes of evidence exist. So which is it?

As for "the next world is between you and god", you're assuming that a god exists, when no one has ever proven such a thing. Not even your evidence proves this.

Yes. I do believe that God exists and what happens to you in the next world is between you and Him. Congratulations. You have just stated the obvious. So what? Either God exists or He doesn't. From my standpoint, what happens to you in the next world is between you and God. I have nothing to do with it. From your standpoint there is no next world, so you have nothing to worry about. Which begs the question, why are we still discussing this?

 

[Mickiel]

Join me in a study of "The Tithing Trap:"

Tithing Trap: Bible truth about tithes

 

[ding]

I already said that anything concrete can be used as evidence, what more are you looking for?

Ok, let's start over. Without you admitting that Creation was created by God, can you agree on the following ground rules for possible evidence of God's existence. Mind you, you are not admitting that there is a God. You are only acknowledging the attributes of evidence.

When you create something, can that creation be used as evidence?

When you create something is your creation the realization of your intention? In other words if you set out to make a cell phone do you end up making a turkey dinner?

When you create something, do you usually create it in steps do it in steps?

Do more complex creations require more steps? Does it take more steps to create a cell phone than it does a turkey dinner?

Do more complex creations require intelligence? Is more intelligence required to make a cell phone than a turkey dinner?

Can I learn anything about you by your creation?

Such as:

Can I learn how many steps you had to take?

Can I learn what your level of intelligence was from what you created?

Can I learn what the purpose of your creation was?

If you are honest in your replies, we can move forward in the discussion. Otherwise, it will be a a waste of your time.

 

[Mickiel]

If you have time , join me in "The Trojan Horse of Tithing";

Tithing: Low-Realm, Obsolete & Defunct

 

[Mickiel]

Hey , are you busy tonight ? Will you think with me?

Join me in the truth ;

The Abuse of Tithing in the Church System

 

[Mickiel]

Hey ,lets swim in the truth a bit more; prepare yourself , Christianity does not teach this ;

The Tithe Lie

 

[Mudda]

When you create something, can that creation be used as evidence?

Yes, as evidence of something I created, but maybe also as evidence of a murder committed by someone else. If I take a knife and kill someone with it, they don't accuse the creator of the knife.

When you create something is your creation the realization of your intention? In other words if you set out to make a cell phone do you end up making a turkey dinner?

Not always, you can start out with the intention of writing a certain kind of song and then end up somewhere else. Happens often. Not the exception. Anyways, being an exception is important only in that you have to concede that this universe might be the exception as well. Check mate, brah.

When you create something, do you usually create it in steps do it in steps?

Again, not always. If I'm drawing a circle, it's one step. And some things that require steps, like writing a song, can be done with the steps in different orders, like, you can write the lyrics before or after the music...

Do more complex creations require more steps? Does it take more steps to create a cell phone than it does a turkey dinner?

I guess I really can't answer this one because I don't know how many steps it takes to build a cell phone vs a turkey dinner. But you're implying that either you know, or it's irrelevant. (a cell phone can be made in Chine at a plant in probably 5 minutes, a turkey dinner takes

Do more complex creations require intelligence? Is more intelligence required to make a cell phone than a turkey dinner?

All creation would require intelligence, I presume. But maybe not? A tomato plant makes a tomato, is it intelligent?

Can I learn anything about you by your creation?

Such as:

Can I learn how many steps you had to take?

No (except for drawing a circle, lol)

Can I learn what your level of intelligence was from what you created?

Maybe, but not necessarily.

Can I learn what the purpose of your creation was?

Not always, ex: people paint pictures that nobody knows what they mean.

 

[Mudda]

I already said that anything concrete can be used as evidence, what more are you looking for?

Yes, I agree that you did just write that, but you then proceeded to dismiss that it can be used as evidence for a Creator. So basically you have placed a caveat on it. Look, either tangible items can be used as evidence and information can be gathered from it or it can't. You can't pick and choose when and where those attributes of evidence exist. So which is it?

As for "the next world is between you and god", you're assuming that a god exists, when no one has ever proven such a thing. Not even your evidence proves this.

Yes. I do believe that God exists and what happens to you in the next world is between you and Him. Congratulations. You have just stated the obvious. So what? Either God exists or He doesn't. From my standpoint, what happens to you in the next world is between you and God. I have nothing to do with it. From your standpoint there is no next world, so you have nothing to worry about. Which begs the question, why are we still discussing this?

"From your standpoint there is no next world" I never said that, in fact, didn't I say that there's evidence for re-incarnation?

"but you then proceeded to dismiss that it can be used as evidence for a Creator." No, I said that it's evidence of something, but being evidence of a creator has not been proven. It could be something completely different, like that universes are self-propagating into multi-verses and have no need for a creator god. Or even something else.
Maybe even the exception to your rule.

 

[Mickiel]

The Christian way of pulling the Old Testament Tithe and forcing it into the New Covenant is " Adding to Scripture."

Simply no doubt about it. Its manipulating the word of God.

 

[hadit]

So you're saying that using anecdotal evidence, your god is proven? Ok, I can agree with that. But for me, that doesn't pass my sniff test, I need more than anecdotal evidence.

Okay, but look at it this way. You believe in alien abductions based on a relative handful of accounts that have happened over what, the last 50 years or so? Yet you completely dismiss the huge volume of accounts from people who have encountered God over thousands of years. Why do you insist on far more evidence for the existence of God than you do for alien abductions?

And I can say that I don't personally have any proof of aliens, but real things have happened to real people, unlike with god, nothing can actually be traced back to have been done by an invisible being.

What evidence beyond anecdotal do you have of alien abductions?

Using that same standard, absolutely things can be traced back to having been done by God. And my belief goes further than just the anecdotal, because I personally have proof of God working, proof that satisfies me. It is the same kind of proof you would have if you personally were abducted by aliens but they returned you with no proof that anyone else would accept.

The bottom line remains, your belief in alien abductions is based on faith, just as my belief in God began with faith.

There's is no real proof of god's intervention that I know of. And there's no proof of anything that the bible says that god did.

Okay, but look at it this way. You believe in alien abductions based on a relative handful of accounts that have happened over what, the last 50 years or so? Yet you completely dismiss the huge volume of accounts from people who have encountered God over thousands of years. Why do you insist on far more evidence for the existence of God than you do for alien abductions?

What evidence beyond anecdotal do you have of alien abductions?

Using that same standard, absolutely things can be traced back to having been done by God. And my belief goes further than just the anecdotal, because I personally have proof of God working, proof that satisfies me. It is the same kind of proof you would have if you personally were abducted by aliens but they returned you with no proof that anyone else would accept.

The bottom line remains, your belief in alien abductions is based on faith, just as my belief in God began with faith.

There's is no real proof of god's intervention that I know of. And there's no proof of anything that the bible says that god did.
As for alien abductions, real things have happened, you just seem not to accept them.

I remain agnostic on the alien thing, but I continue to point out that there is no real evidence of alien abductions and that your belief in them is faith based. You have faith, but malign mine.

Real things have happened to people that they have been able to prove, like disappearing for hours or days, you simply think they are liars. There is simply no proof whatsoever of god's intervention.

We've been over that whole proof thing before, and using your standard, the proof of God's existence is overwhelming.

Real things have happened to real people, like healing sicknesses through prayer, people returned from the dead, and supernatural protection while doing missions, and you think they are all liars. There is simply no real proof whatsoever of alien abductions.

See how that works? You have faith that alien abductions are real, despite having no real evidence. You are upset that I would challenge that faith, yet you have no problem asserting that my faith, which is based on not only a much larger data set than yours, but bolstered by personal experience, is false.

What is "supernatural protection while doing missions"? I've never heard of that before.

Of course you haven't. You pay no attention to what missionaries do.

As for healing through prayer, well, if prayer worked, then everyone would get healed, which they don't. 3 out of 3 billion who pray is simply happenstance more than anything else, lol.

Ah, therein lies the rub. We do not control God because He is a sovereign being, not an ATM. IOW, He decides when and where to act, and is not accountable to man's demands. If God were an ATM, once you figured out the right buttons to push, you would push them and the goodies would always fall out. He is not, therefore when Christians pray, they ask, not demand.

As for people coming back from the dead, what proof is there that an invisible person intervened? Anything?

And again you demand more and more proof. That is why God doesn't do the whole "Do a trick" method of proving His existence. The demands for more tricks would never stop, because anyone who didn't see the first one would demand one for themselves, and on it goes.

But what you're saying is that if I have faith that aliens exist, so can you have faith that your god exists? So you base your proof on something you thing is bogus (my supposed faith of aliens)? Not a very strong argument, brah.

Nope, just pointing out you don't have a strong position from which to mock the experiences of millions of people over thousands of years while giving credence to the experiences of a handful of people over a handful of years. You believe something by faith, so do millions of Christians. The difference is, your belief results in no personal proof or experience while theirs does.

Here's the bottom line. God wants you to believe in Him without scientifically verifiable proof. Now, He does prove Himself to those who believe in Him. You're willing to accept alien abductions without scientifically verifiable proof, so why do you have such a hard time accepting that millions of people over thousands of years who report the same experiences are on to something?

 

[hadit]

The Christian way of pulling the Old Testament Tithe and forcing it into the New Covenant is " Adding to Scripture."

You're obsessed with the tithe. Why is that?

 

[hadit]

What proof would you accept for God's existence?

Something that would be accepted

What proof would you accept for God's existence?

Something real that could be accepted in a court of law as real evidence would probably do it.

What is "supernatural protection while doing missions"? Or did you just make that up?

Ok, tell me exactly what you would accept. Be specific. Because I don't think you can do it because I don't think there is anything you will accept. So why don't we cut to the chase and you just admit, that there is nothing you will accept.

I just told you: something that could be accepted in a court of law as real evidence. What don't you understand?
What is "supernatural protection while doing missions"? You make that up?

No. You didn't. You laid out parameters for that something. Ok, let's test it. God comes down from heaven and introduces Himself to you in person. Would that be enough for you?

Yes, because an actual person is accepted in a court of law to give testimony... be evidence himself because you can actually see him and touch him.

What is "supernatural protection while doing missions"? You too embarrassed to say?

You are setting two different parameters perhaps without realizing it. On the one hand, you say you would accept a personal introduction to God, but on the other hand God would have to appear in court so other people could verify His existence for you.

 

[hobelim]

Here's the bottom line. God wants you to believe in Him without scientifically verifiable proof. Now, He does prove Himself to those who believe in Him. You're willing to accept alien abductions without scientifically verifiable proof, so why do you have such a hard time accepting that millions of people over thousands of years who report the same experiences are on to something?

Any so called personal experience of God based solely on reading the bible about other people who heard from God, but without any of the attending signs reported, is merely the product of an unrestrained imagination.

They may be onto something but what they are onto is a decades long decline in mental health and intellectual acuity from which many never recover..

 

[hadit]

Today is rip off day at most churches. Some of them don't use collection plates ,they use "Buckets."

Milking people like cows.

You seem obsessed with the tithe. Why is that? Perhaps you should take a step back and realize that no one is forcing you to give.

 

[hadit]

Here's the bottom line. God wants you to believe in Him without scientifically verifiable proof. Now, He does prove Himself to those who believe in Him. You're willing to accept alien abductions without scientifically verifiable proof, so why do you have such a hard time accepting that millions of people over thousands of years who report the same experiences are on to something?

Any so called personal experience of God based solely on reading the bible about other people who heard from God, but without any of the attending signs reported, is merely the product of an unrestrained imagination.

They may be onto something but what they are onto is a decade long decline in mental health and intellectual acuity from which many never recover..

They experience some things you don't, so you simply say they're crazy..

 

[hadit]

Do you think there are pennies in heaven? Or dimes? You think God uses dollar bills? Hey , there is no money in heaven.

What's God going to do with money?

God has no need of food, either, yet He expects us to provide food for ourselves and our neighbors. He has no need of buildings, yet He expects us to provide shelter for ourselves and our neighbors. He has no need of anything material, but we do. Our giving is not to benefit God, but to allow Him to use our generosity to bless others.