Zone1 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the only true and living Church today

[Cougarbear]

With the exception of Cougarbear the Mormons I have known have been nice people. They deserve better than the fraud of the religion they follow.

You are so full of yourself. You are the fraud.

 

[BS Filter]

The Lord has only one true and living church. One reason The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a “living church” is that the living God reveals His will to living prophets and apostles. All other churches are dead and mourn constantly and this is the reason for the cross on all other Christian Churches. The worship the dead Christ while TCOJCOLDS worships the living Christ and has a spire pointing to the resurrecting living Christ.
"Three features—(1) fulness of doctrine, (2) power of the priesthood, and (3) testimony of Jesus Christ—explain why God has declared and why we as His servants maintain that this is the only true and living Church upon the face of the whole earth." - Dallin H. Oaks. Here is the entire massage from Elder Oaks, a current day Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ: The Only True and Living Church

Do not be threatened? Be humble: "Because of this declaration of the Lord, we refer to this, His Church—our Church—as the “only true Church.” Sometimes we do this in a way that gives great offense to people who belong to other churches or who subscribe to other philosophies. But God has not taught us anything that should cause us to feel superior to other people. Certainly all churches and philosophies have elements of truth in them, some more than others. Certainly God loves all of His children. And certainly His gospel plan is for all of His children, all according to His own timetable."

Jesus said that His church would never go away. Therefore, I can't believe the LDS claim. Jesus is alive, and as long as Jesus is alive so is His church, all those who believe in Him.

 

[Cougarbear]

Jesus said that His church would never go away. Therefore, I can't believe the LDS claim. Jesus is alive, and as long as Jesus is alive so is His church, all those who believe in Him.

No he didn’t. He said his Kingdom would never go away. His Kingdom is in Heaven.

 

[Donald H]

No he didn’t. He said his Kingdom would never go away. His Kingdom is in Heaven.

Everybody takes part in the 'religion' discussions to learn.

Christians aren't learning from their bibles when they're taking part here. I would suggest that their faith doesn't speak loud enough for them to be able to just ignore the contradictions in their beliefs that arise.

Even those who are the most stalwart believers are unable to ignore the temptation to defend their beliefs.

There will always be 'religion' debates!

 

[Hector12]

You are so full of yourself. You are the fraud.

I am full of the truth about Mormonism. Joseph Smith was a womanizing pedophile and a con man.

 

[Hector12]

Read Jeff Lindsay to find out your answers. What I’ll do is receive the Holy Ghost to know The Book of Mormon is true. Jesus is the Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is Christ’s Church. The Doctrine is all true. Joseph Smith was a propane Russel M Nelson is Christ’s current prophet. It’s not about science you duffas. So sad.
Like I said, I have the answers for your questions. That doesn’t give me my testimony.

I already did. In a desperate effort to disprove the Smithsonian letter he quoted obscure people.

 

[Cougarbear]

Everybody takes part in the 'religion' discussions to learn.

Christians aren't learning from their bibles when they're taking part here. I would suggest that their faith doesn't speak loud enough for them to be able to just ignore the contradictions in their beliefs that arise.

Even those who are the most stalwart believers are unable to ignore the temptation to defend their beliefs.

There will always be 'religion' debates!

I wish the first sentence was true. For some it’s true. But for a vast majority it’s not. Hector12 is a prime example of one who cannot admit error including simple understanding of definitions of words. He is like many that stick to old statements like the Smithsonian that even the Smithsonian has retracted. And, new evidence that isn’t 100 years old.

 

[Cougarbear]

I already did. In a desperate effort to disprove the Smithsonian letter he quoted obscure people.

The Smithsonian letter was retracted by the Smithsonian. You haven't read Jeff Lindsay. You continue to lie which apostates do regularly because they are no longer under the influence of the Holy Ghost. You messed up on basic concepts of DNA and race and yet you think you have the upper hand?

"I read of an educated man who left the Church around the turn of the century because the references to the use of cement for construction in the Book of Mormon was a laughable anachronism. He boldly told a leader of the Church that the book must be a fraud, based on the cement problem. Today the use of cement in ancient Mesoamerica is well known. Tourists to Mesoamerica can find ancient cement work in abundance at Teotihuacan (which is in the right area for cement use according to modern models for Book of Mormon geography). Mesoamerican cement was being used at least by the first century B.C. It was a blunder for anyone writing in 1830 - but now is one more piece of evidence (though a tiny one!) of authenticity. (See the online FARMS article, "Cement in the Book of Mormon.") Yet for a while, it was an issue that could challenge one's faith, or at least was an easy area for critics to attack, as President Heber J. Grant reported in 1929:

When I was a young unmarried man, another young man who had received a doctor's degree ridiculed me for believing in the Book of Mormon. He said that one lie in the Book of Mormon is that the people had built their homes out of cement and that they were very skillful in the use of cement. He said there had never been found, and never would be found, a house built of cement by the ancient inhabitants of this country, because the people in that early age knew nothing about cement. He said that should be enough to make one disbelieve the book. I said: 'That does not affect my faith one particle. I read the Book of Mormon prayerfully and supplicated God for a testimony in my heart and soul of the divinity of it, and I have accepted it and believe it with all my heart.' I also said to him, 'If my children do not find cement houses, I expect that my grandchildren will' (in Conference Report, April 1929, 129)."

www.jefflindsay.com

 

[Cougarbear]

I already did. In a desperate effort to disprove the Smithsonian letter he quoted obscure people.

We can have faith that conflicting data will be resolved because it has been resolved in numerous ways already. Consider the issues of cement, of horses, of barley, of transoceanic voyages, of tents in Mesoamerica, of the ancient use of metal plates, of the existence of Bountiful - all of these were ridiculous errors in the past, which now have serious evidence behind them to lend plausibility to the Book of Mormon. If the text were a fraud, we would expect the flow of evidence to go the other way: as we learn more about the ancient world, the foolishness of the fraud should become more apparent. It's just the opposite. Humility is needed to accept that not all answers will be given on demand.

The Book of Mormon in no way gives the entire history of the many diverse peoples who have inhabited the Americas and who had diverse origins. It does not deal with an entire hemisphere. In no way does it imply that all of the 1500 New World languages (ca. time of Columbus) are derived from a common Hebraic source! In no way does it imply that all or even most Native Americans are primarily derived from Hebrew ancestors. It gives no grounds for assuming that DNA studies should show close ties between Native Americans and modern Jews or that Native American genes should show a common source from Book of Mormon peoples. In fact, from the text we may infer that any surviving descendants ought to show a mix of genetic origins, since three migrations to the New World from at least two different parts of the Old World are described, and evidence exists that other peoples were present in Mesoamerica besides the immigrants.

 

[Cougarbear]

I already did. In a desperate effort to disprove the Smithsonian letter he quoted obscure people.

Okay Hector, pick one subject that you think proves the Book of Mormon false and we will debate it.

 

[Hector12]

I wish the first sentence was true. For some it’s true. But for a vast majority it’s not. Hector12 is a prime example of one who cannot admit error including simple understanding of definitions of words. He is like many that stick to old statements like the Smithsonian that even the Smithsonian has retracted. And, new evidence that isn’t 100 years old.

I have just read

The Smithsonian Institution's 1996
"Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon"​

Response prepared by Jeff Lindsay, © 2001

Response to the Smithsonian Institute Statement on the Book of Mormon

www.jefflindsay.com

--------------

There is nothing there that would leave a unbiased reader to doubt the Smithsonian Letter. There are only a lot of "might be's" and "may be's."

For example, "there is evidence for barley, millet, chickens, and horses in the ancient New World."

Horses existed several thousands of years before the coming of Columbus and any possible migration of people from the Mid East, but they had been hunted to extinction by the Indians.

Lindsay mentions the use of meteroic iron, but the Smithsonian Letter does too, "5. Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for the occasional use of unsmelted meteoric iron)."

There was not nearly enough of that to make the steel weapons mentioned in The Book of Mormon.

Frequently when Lindsay needs to probe something, he tells his reader to read something else, "As for iron and steel, please see my LDSFAQ page on Metals in the Book of Mormon." One would think he had room to prove it in the essay I read.

"That fits reasonably well with the Book of Mormon description of the Jaredites, who came from the old world in enclosed barges or boats, at a time that fits in well with the rise of the Olmec civilization." If the Jaredites founded the Olmec civilization, the Olmecs would have used a Mid Eastern kind of writing. They did not.

And on and on.

 

[Cougarbear]

I have just read

The Smithsonian Institution's 1996​

"Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon"​

Response prepared by Jeff Lindsay, © 2001

Response to the Smithsonian Institute Statement on the Book of Mormon

www.jefflindsay.com

--------------

There is nothing there that would leave a unbiased reader to doubt the Smithsonian Letter. There are only a lot of "might be's" and "may be's."

For example, "there is evidence for barley, millet, chickens, and horses in the ancient New World."

Horses existed several thousands of years before the coming of Columbus and any possible migration of people from the Mid East, but they had been hunted to extinction by the Indians.

Lindsay mentions the use of meteroic iron, but the Smithsonian Letter does too, "5. Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for the occasional use of unsmelted meteoric iron)."

There was not nearly enough of that to make the steel weapons mentioned in The Book of Mormon.

Frequently when Lindsay needs to probe something, he tells his reader to read something else, "As for iron and steel, please see my LDSFAQ page on Metals in the Book of Mormon." One would think he had room to prove it in the essay I read.

"That fits reasonably well with the Book of Mormon description of the Jaredites, who came from the old world in enclosed barges or boats, at a time that fits in well with the rise of the Olmec civilization." If the Jaredites founded the Olmec civilization, the Olmecs would have used a Mid Eastern kind of writing. They did not.

And on and on.

You have a biased eye when you read others who would cause you considerable anguish for your apostasy. To the point of dismissing reasonable concepts to describe things like steel or silk… a reasonable person would accept other materials similar as well as the fact new artifacts are and will be unearthed as archaeological digs increase in the Americas. There are millions of square miles to be unearthed from LiBar lazer technology.
It’s understandable for a scholar to bring in other works of scholar like FairMormon.org. Nothing wrong with that. And, anyone who has written scholarly papers knows you must include and acknowledge work of others to support your conclusions. You do not. Nor, are you open to new findings because of apostasy and lack of humility. It would be embarrassing if you were to admit your ignorance. “Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and he will lift you up.

 

[Hector12]

You have a biased eye when you read others who would cause you considerable anguish for your apostasy. To the point of dismissing reasonable concepts to describe things like steel or silk… a reasonable person would accept other materials similar as well as the fact new artifacts are and will be unearthed as archaeological digs increase in the Americas. There are millions of square miles to be unearthed from LiBar lazer technology.
It’s understandable for a scholar to bring in other works of scholar like FairMormon.org. Nothing wrong with that. And, anyone who has written scholarly papers knows you must include and acknowledge work of others to support your conclusions. You do not. Nor, are you open to new findings because of apostasy and lack of humility. It would be embarrassing if you were to admit your ignorance. “Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and he will lift you up.

You keep forgetting that I wanted to become a Mormon. Consequently, I was inclined to give pro Mormon evidence more credence.

Eventually I ended up humbling the Mormon missionaries who proselytized me, because they were unable to answer my objections.

Initially I found problems with Mormon assertions myself. It was only later that I learned that those problems had been found by scholars.

 

[Cougarbear]

You keep forgetting that I wanted to become a Mormon. Consequently, I was inclined to give pro Mormon evidence more credence.

Eventually I ended up humbling the Mormon missionaries who proselytized me, because they were unable to answer my objections.

Initially I found problems with Mormon assertions myself. It was only later that I learned that those problems had been found by scholars.

Hahaha!!! You humbled Missionaries. That’s a crock. They simply shook their feet’s off and left. See, you leaned on sand instead of the Rock. There’s no problem with having questions. But as has been proven, the questions you have are different from spiritual questions. The answers are not found the same way. I still have questions. But, because of the faith I received with a testimony from God through the Holy Ghost, the questions you ask will be answered eventually. I have no doubt. Every year, something new has always been revealed including every question you have had. The Book of Mormon is true. I have no doubt because the Holy Ghost has revealed this to me. Where is this and where is that will be revealed and has been line upon line. I’m satisfied with the examples of scholarship of those like Lindsay and that is lining up perfectly with my spiritual testimony. The more faith I have the more knowledge and understanding I’m receiving. I have not damned my progression in the knowledge of all things. You have. Your eyes will be opened but only if you build your spiritual testimony that the Book of Mormon is true. Then, Joseph Smith must be a prophet. And The Church is true. Then, the writings of our scholars will destroy the anti-Christs out there who lie and deceive.

 

[Blackrook]

Jesus taught us to beware false prophets. It's a contest between Mohammed and Joseph Smith who was a more evil man.

 

[Cougarbear]

Jesus taught us to beware false prophets. It's a contest between Mohammed and Joseph Smith who was a more evil man.

 

[SweetSue92]

so you follow scriptures in the bible without question?

Here comes a long string of an unbeliever not knowing the difference between "prescriptive" and "descriptive"

 

[Hector12]

Hahaha!!! You humbled Missionaries. That’s a crock. They simply shook their feet’s off and left. See, you leaned on sand instead of the Rock. There’s no problem with having questions. But as has been proven, the questions you have are different from spiritual questions. The answers are not found the same way. I still have questions. But, because of the faith I received with a testimony from God through the Holy Ghost, the questions you ask will be answered eventually. I have no doubt. Every year, something new has always been revealed including every question you have had. The Book of Mormon is true. I have no doubt because the Holy Ghost has revealed this to me. Where is this and where is that will be revealed and has been line upon line. I’m satisfied with the examples of scholarship of those like Lindsay and that is lining up perfectly with my spiritual testimony. The more faith I have the more knowledge and understanding I’m receiving. I have not damned my progression in the knowledge of all things. You have. Your eyes will be opened but only if you build your spiritual testimony that the Book of Mormon is true. Then, Joseph Smith must be a prophet. And The Church is true. Then, the writings of our scholars will destroy the anti-Christs out there who lie and deceive.

You have not even learned how to write. How can you lecture to me on what is true? To begin with, learn to divide what you write into paragraphs. Keep a blank line between your paragraphs.

Your argument amounts to : I know it is true, because I believe it very strongly. Strong beliefs based on emotion do not compensate for well reasoned opinions based on facts and logical reasoning.

 

[Cougarbear]

You have not even learned how to write. How can you lecture to me on what is true? To begin with, learn to divide what you write into paragraphs. Keep a blank line between your paragraphs.

Your argument amounts to : I know it is true, because I believe it very strongly. Strong beliefs based on emotion do not compensate for well reasoned opinions based on facts and logical reasoning.

The one that doesn’t know what anthropology is and the understanding of DNA and race is lecturing me about paragraphs? Hahaha!

Here is a new paragraph. See? Strong true beliefs by way of the Holy Ghost is not based on emotions. Emotional responses come from outside influences like music or a good talk. The Holy Ghosts enters from within communicating with our own spirits. We mostly know this because of a still small voice of comfort. On some occasions, a spirit of fire like a fire is burning in our bosoms. From both, I know The Book of Mormon is true.

Outside influences like archeological findings that support The Book of Mormon as Jeff points out make me smile but doesn’t make my testimony any stronger that what the Holy Ghost has testified to me. Something you have never understood. The missionaries tried to teach you through prayer. But you rejected prayer for the inaccuracies of the Smithsonian. That’s why they left. They felt the spirit of contention with you.

I have to give you some credit. This has reminded me to always ask God with real intent without a double mind so that I keep the things of God separate from the things of man. That’s where some members falter. They forget how personal revelation comes to them. Once this lady got up during testimony meeting and said that anything of God has to be proved and justified by science. Sad. She fell away. Not because she found something false through science. She simply didn’t have a true testimony that only comes from God and proved by God. People tried to explain it to her but just like you, she could not understand. Double minded like you. Sad.

Well, do I have enough paragraphs for you?

 

[Cougarbear]

Here comes a long string of an unbeliever not knowing the difference between "prescriptive" and "descriptive"

It’s okay to question. But man will usually make inaccuracies about things like science, anthropology, archaeology and geology. While it’s interesting and as time goes buy, more biblical events and places are being revealed, one who has the testimony by the Holy Ghost won’t be swayed by what man does. And will recognize truth in God and his words.